A POUND FOR YOUR THOUGHTS British - People Attempt To Guess The Cost Of American Health Care, Are Shocked When They Hear The Answers

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Post by Thorin on Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:51 pm

News website Joe interviewed young Brits on the street, and asked them about the price of health care in the United States. When the actual price tag is revealed, they are flabbergasted to learn the costs of various things that they take for granted. Watch:


https://digg.com/2019/british-people-attempt-to-guess-the-cost-of-american-health-care



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Post by Original Quill on Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:52 pm

Meh...made up prices can be done by anyone.

We can tally the actual price of an F-35...a $-trillion. Do we need to go to war with Afghanistan? Or how about taking over from the Saudis. It's none of our business, but WTF...

If we put a cap on this outrageous defense spending, the burden of an American NHS is simple. It may be a challenge to you Brits, but it's a breeze for us. Just have to stop the toys for Generals.

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:57 pm

It is seriously grotesque, and Republicans have done a stellar job of convincing millions of working Americans that nationalised health care is a terrible thing.

Meanwhile, if you think the Tories will preserve what we have then you're kidding yourself. While I don't think it'll immediately reach this ridiculous prices, even a step in this direction is a colossal mistake.

Only Labour can guarantee protection of the NHS as is.

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Post by Thorin on Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:31 am

Eilzel wrote:It is seriously grotesque, and Republicans have done a stellar job of convincing millions of working Americans that nationalised health care is a terrible thing.

Meanwhile, if you think the Tories will preserve what we have then you're kidding yourself. While I don't think it'll immediately reach this ridiculous prices, even a step in this direction is a colossal mistake.

Only Labour can guarantee protection of the NHS as is.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:35 am

A POUND FOR YOUR THOUGHTS British - People Attempt To Guess The Cost Of American Health Care, Are Shocked When They Hear The Answers 3724572420 

Repub' supporters have been indoctrinated to believe that it is "un-Aymerikan" to regulate the health funds and private hospitals to the point where healthcare might once again be affordable for most Americans;  while the very notion of "universal basic healthcare" for all citizens is somehow "communistic" (whatever that means in these days of Repub' 'double speak'..).

A cornerstone of Repub' beliefs these days is that every American should have that God-given 'right' to exploit, cheat and rob their fellow Americans to the best of their ability;  while it is also the sacred duty of all their victims to bend over and take it like the Republican stooges do every day..

Meanwhile, all the conservative parties in all Western democracies do have those ultra-right "free market"/"trickle down"/supply side idiots, who believe that all healthcare and welfare services should be sold off to their scamster and carpetbagger chums/buddies/mates.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:23 am

And people wonder why I had to vote for the woman who stood a very good chance of beating the guy who promised to repeal, rather than improve, Obamacare.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:41 am

It's amazing that poor people from all over the planet still move here when its basically a death sentence if they get sick. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:43 am

Eilzel wrote:It is seriously grotesque, and Republicans have done a stellar job of convincing millions of working Americans that nationalised health care is a terrible thing.

Meanwhile, if you think the Tories will preserve what we have then you're kidding yourself. While I don't think it'll immediately reach this ridiculous prices, even a step in this direction is a colossal mistake.

Only Labour can guarantee protection of the NHS as is.

No one can guarantee the NHS as it is. The cost or the level of service is going to change.

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Post by nicko on Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:45 am

Les, Can't believe an intelligent Teacher like you would fall for a Marxist Terrorist bullshit. You are supposed to be intelligent to be a teacher more than the average Joe, I can't believe you have fell for Magic Grandad's "pie in the Sky" -----shakes head in disbelief !
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:17 pm

nicko wrote:Les, Can't believe an intelligent Teacher like you would fall for a Marxist Terrorist bullshit. You are supposed to be intelligent to be a teacher more than the average Joe, I can't believe you have fell for Magic Grandad's  "pie in the Sky" -----shakes head in disbelief !

I can't believe that you fall for that capitalist-criminal bullshit. If they had their way, people could sell their organs and the capitalists would profit as brokers.

I've long held that the answer is right before our eyes. On the one hand we have an abundance of resources in the DOD, with little or no need; on the other hand we have an abundance of need with healthcare, with little or no resources. Merge the Department of Defense with the Department of Health, and we have divine providence.

The mission of defense and the mission of healthcare is precisely the same: to protect citizens from harm. Whether the harm is from an external enemy, or an internal enemy, is of no consequence. Harm is harm.

Indeed, in the coming cyber age health and defense will merge notwithstanding our political perceptions. Instead of bombs and grenades, we will have shutting down power grids and poisoning of water sources, with the consequence that the public will be attacked via illness and starvation anyway. Right now, the Internet Research Agency of the Russian Army is aiming at civilian targets precisely, only they are working on voting machines instead of power grids. All it takes is a slight shift in focus.

Better to accept and plan for it, than have it come upon us unprepared.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:33 pm

Maddog wrote:It's amazing that poor people from all over the planet still move here when its basically a death sentence if they get sick.  Rolling Eyes

And of course, they all find that America lives up to the dream they had of it  Rolling Eyes

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:It's amazing that poor people from all over the planet still move here when its basically a death sentence if they get sick.  Rolling Eyes

And of course, they all find that America lives up to the dream they had of it  Rolling Eyes


Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?



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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:25 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:It's amazing that poor people from all over the planet still move here when its basically a death sentence if they get sick.  Rolling Eyes

And of course, they all find that America lives up to the dream they had of it  Rolling Eyes


Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?



No, I'm saying that a lot of them probably either assume it does, since every other wealthy nation does, or think all Americans are rich so it won't matter that they have to pay shitloads for health care.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:13 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?



No, I'm saying that a lot of them probably either assume it does, since every other wealthy nation does, or think all Americans are rich so it won't matter that they have to pay shitloads for health care.

So you think they're stupid.

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:20 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?



No, I'm saying that a lot of them probably either assume it does, since every other wealthy nation does, or think all Americans are rich so it won't matter that they have to pay shitloads for health care.

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?



No, I'm saying that a lot of them probably either assume it does, since every other wealthy nation does, or think all Americans are rich so it won't matter that they have to pay shitloads for health care.

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.

Yeah really  Rolling Eyes

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Maddog wrote:It's amazing that poor people from all over the planet still move here when its basically a death sentence if they get sick.  Rolling Eyes
Rolling Eyes

Bullshit...

1.  "Poor" people cannot afford to immigrate to your arsehole end of the world  --  the reason you suffer your usual retard fantasies is down to the constant influx of "economic refugees" chasing their own retard fantasies, along with transient day labourers trying to escape from their own ravaged homelands to the south..

2.  Britain and Canada are the leading countries for immigrants wishlists --  not the Dumpster's "MAGA" hellhole..

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:30 pm

nicko wrote:Les, Can't believe an intelligent Teacher like you would fall for a Marxist Terrorist bullshit. You are supposed to be intelligent to be a teacher more than the average Joe, I can't believe you have fell for Magic Grandad's  "pie in the Sky" -----shakes head in disbelief !
Question

Have you actually ever read any of Marx's writings,  nicko ?

Just because some right-wing propagandists label somebody a "Marxist" doesn't make it so..

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:32 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

And of course, they all find that America lives up to the dream they had of it  Rolling Eyes



Are you telling me that poor immigrants from all over the planet, don't realize that the United States does not have a nationalized health care system?

Rolling Eyes

Amd you keep on pushing the Repub' lie that "poor people from all over the planet.." are flooding into the USA...

Fucking idiot..

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

No, I'm saying that a lot of them probably either assume it does, since every other wealthy nation does, or think all Americans are rich so it won't matter that they have to pay shitloads for health care.

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  
Rolling Eyes

No, fuckwit, ignorance doesn't equate to "stupid"...

Except in your little corner of Retardistan..

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:36 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.
Arrow

Except in DopeyDawg's case...

That fool seems to be incapable of thinking for himself..

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:16 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.

And are they dying here from a lack of care?

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:21 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So you think they're stupid.  

Well, it's amazing that we have over 40 million immigrants that stuck around.

Maybe they're all wealthy?  

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.

And are they dying here from a lack of care?

Some might, not everyone is sick all the time though, obviously. And like a lot of Americans, some may just get themselves into a mountain of debt when they are.

Your point is?

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:24 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

And are they dying here from a lack of care?

Some might, not everyone is sick all the time though, obviously. And like a lot of Americans, some may just get themselves into a mountain of debt when they are.

Your point is?

Or they buy insurance.

Or they go to the county hospital because they don't have money.

Tell me, since you're such an expert on this system. What happens to a homeless guy that gets picked up having a seizure on the street?

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Post by nicko on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:51 pm

He gets picked up by Ambulance and taken to Hospital were he's treated with no charge !
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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:59 pm

nicko wrote:He gets picked up by Ambulance and taken to Hospital were he's treated with no charge !

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:36 pm

Maddog wrote:
nicko wrote:He gets picked up by Ambulance and taken to Hospital were he's treated with no charge !

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

So, why is it medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA?

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:01 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

So, why is it medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA?

Because it's a good way to get some cheap medical care.

Step one. Don't Carry insurance. Then get hurt or sick and run up a $20,000 bill. File bankruptcy and get the bill wiped out.

It's far cheaper than paying into the NHS.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:06 pm

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

That jibes with what we’ve seen in the bankruptcy data since Obamacare passed. If medical bills really were driving so many people into bankruptcy, then we would have expected filings to plummet after 2013, when millions of people gained health insurance coverage. Instead we see a smooth decline from the recession-era peak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/


And lets not forget, that the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills is in dispute. The Washington Post broke the Watergate story and no one can consider them a conservative source.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:08 am

Interesting. So you are arguing that if the poverty cases go in the hospital by that back door, through the emergency ward, that is the correct formula? It's true that such treatments are reimbursed by the Feds, but what a dumb system you advocate for.

Why not say, I don't care what door you enter, we will pay for it! How stupid is this charade?

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:24 am

Maddog wrote:The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

That jibes with what we’ve seen in the bankruptcy data since Obamacare passed. If medical bills really were driving so many people into bankruptcy, then we would have expected filings to plummet after 2013, when millions of people gained health insurance coverage. Instead we see a smooth decline from the recession-era peak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/


And lets not forget, that the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills is in dispute. The Washington Post broke the Watergate story and no one can consider them a conservative source.

Your view of this is far different from those of American friends of mine, who acknowledge it is a broken system - where insurance won't even always pay out, where you have to pay up front and are only later reimbursed and even then not for the whole amount, where insurances costs rise year on year.

Perhaps you are a fairly well off individual comparatively and therefore don't see the issue.

Out of interest, what is the average cost of insurance per month for an American on the average US income?

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Post by 'Wolfie on Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:02 am

Basketball

Simples...

Maddog is a worthless lying piece of shit..

End of.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:07 am

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Most of them come from developing countries, where even with America's fucked up healthcare system they are still better off. Not hard to figure out tbf.

And are they dying here from a lack of care?
Arrow

Yes...

Millions of Americans are dying each year from inadequate healthcare and homelesness..

And countless uncaring mongrels like you are turning a blind eye every day.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:10 am

Maddog wrote:
nicko wrote:He gets picked up by Ambulance and taken to Hospital were he's treated with no charge !

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

You still pay for your own damn care in a nationalized system, too.

"But at least I'm not paying for anybody else's care, with private insurance!"

Wrong. You think your premium is only used to pay for your care? You are helping pay for the care of everyone who's in your plan.

The only difference is that you are part of a much smaller pool of people paying premiums, and part of that payment is to make sure your insurance company reaches nice healthy profits.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:54 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

That jibes with what we’ve seen in the bankruptcy data since Obamacare passed. If medical bills really were driving so many people into bankruptcy, then we would have expected filings to plummet after 2013, when millions of people gained health insurance coverage. Instead we see a smooth decline from the recession-era peak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/


And lets not forget, that the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills is in dispute. The Washington Post broke the Watergate story and no one can consider them a conservative source.

Your view of this is far different from those of American friends of mine, who acknowledge it is a broken system - where insurance won't even always pay out, where you have to pay up front and are only later reimbursed and even then not for the whole amount, where insurances costs rise year on year.

Are these friends Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians (Maddog is a Libertarian)?

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:59 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

That jibes with what we’ve seen in the bankruptcy data since Obamacare passed. If medical bills really were driving so many people into bankruptcy, then we would have expected filings to plummet after 2013, when millions of people gained health insurance coverage. Instead we see a smooth decline from the recession-era peak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/


And lets not forget, that the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills is in dispute. The Washington Post broke the Watergate story and no one can consider them a conservative source.

Your view of this is far different from those of American friends of mine, who acknowledge it is a broken system - where insurance won't even always pay out, where you have to pay up front and are only later reimbursed and even then not for the whole amount, where insurances costs rise year on year.

Perhaps you are a fairly well off individual comparatively and therefore don't see the issue.

Out of interest, what is the average cost of insurance per month for an American on the average US income?

My view is much different than many of my friends too. And about the same as many others. I don't live in an echo chamber on social media or in real life.

I'm a single person no longer paying for kids coverage. I pay a little less than 500 a month. If course that number can go up or down depending on a lot of factors. Well, down might not really be possible anymore.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:02 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

You still pay for your own damn care in a nationalized system, too.

"But at least I'm not paying for anybody else's care, with private insurance!"

Wrong. You think your premium is only used to pay for your care? You are helping pay for the care of everyone who's in your plan.

The only difference is that you are part of a much smaller pool of people paying premiums, and part of that payment is to make sure your insurance company reaches nice healthy profits.

I know how insurance works. But glad you simplified it. Just pay for your own insurance, problem solved. It's not like its optional under a nationalized plan anyway.

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:21 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

That jibes with what we’ve seen in the bankruptcy data since Obamacare passed. If medical bills really were driving so many people into bankruptcy, then we would have expected filings to plummet after 2013, when millions of people gained health insurance coverage. Instead we see a smooth decline from the recession-era peak.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/


And lets not forget, that the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills is in dispute. The Washington Post broke the Watergate story and no one can consider them a conservative source.

Your view of this is far different from those of American friends of mine, who acknowledge it is a broken system - where insurance won't even always pay out, where you have to pay up front and are only later reimbursed and even then not for the whole amount, where insurances costs rise year on year.

Are these friends Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians (Maddog is a Libertarian)?

All of them are Democrats, though mostly not keen on the mainstream of the party.

^maddog, so you acknowledge that costs only tend to rise, and do you deny any of the problems I mentioned?

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:53 am

Eilzel wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Are these friends Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians (Maddog is a Libertarian)?

All of them are Democrats, though mostly not keen on the mainstream of the party.

^maddog, so you acknowledge that costs only tend to rise, and do you deny any of the problems I mentioned?


You need to expand your circle of friends.

Costs almost always rise for services, especially if you want a higher level of service. I'm trying to think of a service that has gotten cheaper over the past few years. Cant think of one.

The problem with US healthcare is that the government has made it extremely complicated and convoluted. Which is hardly a surprise.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:54 am

Eilzel wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Are these friends Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians (Maddog is a Libertarian)?

All of them are Democrats, though mostly not keen on the mainstream of the party.


So then isit really a fair representing view of US opinions on this or you have only heard from friends that allign with your political beliefs.

Thank goodness for maddog to bring his own views here I guess

Maybe this is the problem with who we choose as friends politically. If it then ostracize the views of other people based simple on their political affiliation?

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:56 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

All of them are Democrats, though mostly not keen on the mainstream of the party.


So then its really a fair representing view of US opinions on this ir you have only heard from friends that allign with your political beliefs.

Thank goodness for maddog to bring his own views here I guess

Maybe this is the problem with who we choose as friends politically. If it then ostracize the views of other people based simple on their political affiliation?

It's a huge problem here in the US. People surround themselves with like minded individuals and dehumanize those with opposing views. It appears to be a problem with Australian beekeepers too.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:02 am

https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/



The NHS is facing severe financial pressures, with trusts across the country spending more than they’re bringing in. The NHS was also asked several years ago to find £22 billion in savings by 2020, in order to keep up with rising demand and an ageing population.



It appears that rising costs are a problem in other countries too.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:04 am

Maddog wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So then its really a fair representing view of US opinions on this ir you have only heard from friends that allign with your political beliefs.

Thank goodness for maddog to bring his own views here I guess

Maybe this is the problem with who we choose as friends politically. If it then ostracize the views of other people based simple on their political affiliation?

It's a huge problem here in the US.  People surround themselves with like minded individuals and dehumanize those with opposing views.  It appears to be a problem with Australian beekeepers too.  

I must admit this virus is also spreading here and also has effected me. Its wrong and why I have seen sense in how damaging this can be in society. I should not allow my frustratings with people. When they do not agree with me on potential damaging issues. To then allow anger to fester. Its wrong and damaging. Though it is hard to see why people will simple cast aside the concerns of people. When I have studied history. Its why even more I see how this tribalism is going to create far more issues and divide people in the future. Where its terrifying what people might do to each other for simple not seeing eye to eye

Its really bad that now political tribal groups is coming again into play as it did in the 1920's and 1930's of European history. People are leaning further and further left and right to the extremes. Where sadly I think its going to end up seeing countless people suffer


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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:13 am

Have a greenie.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:22 am

I run in many different circles.  I'm in real estate and my clients are mostly bankers and lenders. Those folks tend to be conservative. I have my political alignments with folks that share my libertarianish views.  I'm friends with the many of the local libertarians involved with the political ideology. I live in a liberal area and I'm a cyclist.  Cyclists are often liberal. Much of my free time is spent with them.  I've learned to get along with everyone, but I admit I wasn't always that way, nor is it always easy. I also know that I have lost a few friends along the way because they demand loyalty to a common political ideology from their friends.

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Post by Thorin on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:26 am

Maddog wrote:Have a greenie.

Cheers mate

+1

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:11 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Are these friends Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians (Maddog is a Libertarian)?

All of them are Democrats, though mostly not keen on the mainstream of the party.

^maddog, so you acknowledge that costs only tend to rise, and do you deny any of the problems I mentioned?


You need to expand your circle of friends.  

Costs almost always rise for services, especially if you want a higher level of service.  I'm trying to think of a service that has gotten cheaper over the past few years.  Cant think of one.  

The problem with US healthcare is that the government has made it extremely complicated and convoluted.  Which is hardly a surprise.  

In fairness, I'm not American and don't live in America.

Among Brit friends there are Tories, Brexiteers, Liberals and Greens.

My American friends I've made here in Thailand or when travelling in other countries.

Perhaps Americans who travel just tend to be more likely to be liberal and open to socialy democratic ideas. At least that is my unanimous experience.

And it really doesn't surprise me at all.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:20 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Correct.

They don't leave him out on the street, not do they try to get money from a guy who was panhandling 15 minutes earlier.

There are problems in our healthcare, but it's not as bad as people pretend. If you're a healthy, middle aged person, you're expected to pay for your own damn care. Crazy concept, I know.

You still pay for your own damn care in a nationalized system, too.

"But at least I'm not paying for anybody else's care, with private insurance!"

Wrong. You think your premium is only used to pay for your care? You are helping pay for the care of everyone who's in your plan.

The only difference is that you are part of a much smaller pool of people paying premiums, and part of that payment is to make sure your insurance company reaches nice healthy profits.

I know how insurance works.  But glad you simplified it.  Just pay for your own insurance, problem solved.  It's not like its optional under a nationalized plan anyway.  

Wait. You PAY FOR IT NOW, yet you want to bitch about a system under which you would continue to pay for it, but spend a lot less than $500/month?

Best I can tell, you're paying at least double what the average Canadian pays, perhaps even up to four times as much.

That is some really "original" thinking there.

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Makes no difference where you are
or where you're meant to be"

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:21 am

By the way, I've been living without health insurance for nearly a year now, and it sucks.

_________________
"When I look into your eyes, your love is there for me
And the more I go inside, the more there is to see ...

Makes no difference where you are
or where you're meant to be"

- The Beatles
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. Robin Hood of Epping Forest. Fifty Shades of Cray.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:43 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I know how insurance works.  But glad you simplified it.  Just pay for your own insurance, problem solved.  It's not like its optional under a nationalized plan anyway.  

Wait. You PAY FOR IT NOW, yet you want to bitch about a system under which you would continue to pay for it, but spend a lot less than $500/month?

Best I can tell, you're paying at least double what the average Canadian pays, perhaps even up to four times as much.

That is some really "original" thinking there.
Razz

Poor ol' DopeyDawg...

Continues to claim "libertarian" beliefs..

But the pro-exploitionist claptrap that he keeps on pushing here shows that he has well-and-truly been indocrinated into the Repub' belief system, where they claim that it is 'good and proper' that US private health funds and hospitals are able to continue making their gov't-mandated 50% profit margins on turnover..

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