When Facts Are Not Enough | Climate Change

Ben Reilly wrote:Obama put it best when he said that we're not going to convince enough people to use energy-efficient light bulbs and drive hybrid cars to save the planet. It's going to take real government regulations before any true positive impact is made.

That said, we're going to do pretty much fuck-all and the planet is going to run a deadly fever within the next two centuries or so -- every measure we take from here on will be too little, too late. And the people who spent the past 50 years wailing "hoax" and "fake news" will be the ones to blame.

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Obama put it best when he said that we're not going to convince enough people to use energy-efficient light bulbs and drive hybrid cars to save the planet. It's going to take real government regulations before any true positive impact is made.

That said, we're going to do pretty much fuck-all and the planet is going to run a deadly fever within the next two centuries or so -- every measure we take from here on will be too little, too late. And the people who spent the past 50 years wailing "hoax" and "fake news" will be the ones to blame.

Spoken like a true leftist authoritarian
The reality is many people are doing something in order to save the planet. For you to claim little is being done shows how out of touch you are with what measure are being put in place. But are you Ben nothing more than a hypoicrite on this. I do not drive cares and do not own one. I walk. I am happy to cut back on meat and dairy products. What are you willing to sacrifice? Or are you like most hypocrites looking for others to make changes?

But lets place this idea to you or do you think humans matter more than all other species on this planet?

So would you be willing to sacrifice everything you have. Your lifestyle living in civilisation to go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle?
This over night if everyone did this. Would counter global warming over night.
No more fossil fuels being used. No more electricity, no more energy sources. Just simple humans going back to nature.
Are you willing to do this Ben or are you simple full of shit mate?

Maddog wrote:We should start by banning all air travel. Everyone can sail across the oceans like Greta.  

We can all party like its 1752 again.  

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:We should start by banning all air travel. Everyone can sail across the oceans like Greta.  

We can all party like its 1752 again.  

Or just have essential air travel? No need to ban

Do people need to go abroad for their holidays by flights?

There is so much beauty in the US already is there not?

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Or just have essential air travel? No need to ban

Do people need to go abroad for their holidays by flights?

There is so much beauty in the US already is there not?

Agreed.  

Air conditioning is also a huge contributor. Probably should eliminate most of that too.  Won't have much impact on you, but it was 95 degrees here yesterday.  

Ben Reilly wrote:I buy energy-efficient everything. I've driven a car maybe half a dozen times this year. I air-dry my clothing whenever possible. I recycle. I collect rainwater.

When I had my own apartment, I paid extra for electricity that was 100-percent wind-generated. Living with eddie, we switched to a 100-percent green energy plan. She doesn't own a car, so when we're together, we walk, car-pool and use public transport.

Though I have been eating more meat while in Texas, in England I have plenty of days where I'm totally vegetarian, or eat one meal with meat (you can ask edds, I don't eat much anyway).

To paraphrase Gandhi, I am the change I wish to see in the world. But not enough people will live like me voluntarily to fix climate change (which we're past the point of fixing anyway; now all we can do is try to mitigate the damage, and we're not even doing that).

So fuck off Didge, you don't know the first thing about me.

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:I buy energy-efficient everything. I've driven a car maybe half a dozen times this year. I air-dry my clothing whenever possible. I recycle. I collect rainwater.

When I had my own apartment, I paid extra for electricity that was 100-percent wind-generated. Living with eddie, we switched to a 100-percent green energy plan. She doesn't own a car, so when we're together, we walk, car-pool and use public transport.

Though I have been eating more meat while in Texas, in England I have plenty of days where I'm totally vegetarian, or eat one meal with meat (you can ask edds, I don't eat much anyway).

To paraphrase Gandhi, I am the change I wish to see in the world. But not enough people will live like me voluntarily to fix climate change (which we're past the point of fixing anyway; now all we can do is try to mitigate the damage, and we're not even doing that).

So fuck off Didge, you don't know the first thing about me.

Your contribution is minimal and quite pathetic

So I am not going to fuck off because like i said like the selfish human that you are. You are certainly not willing to properly sacrifice everything for the greater good of this planet and it survival

I dont claim to do so, but i get sick and tired of self proclaiming leftist tossers like you. Thinking you can berate people on the right or left in what they are doing to combat climate change. When you claim they are doing little, when you yourself do little yourself. You are what is the defintion of the worst hypocrisy. Your view of injuistice is a joke when you constantly allow a poster to get away with constant antisemitism here.

I know you think you are important, when in reality, that is how arrogantly humans think and believe they are. Because not many humans are willingly to sacrifice for the sake of a greater good. Of course you have some evil shit heads that think sacrificing themselves throught terrorism is done for the greater good, but it never is. As that is based on beliefs and ideology that seeks to harm people. What really takes sacrifice, is placing ourselves before everythint else. Where I have no doubt what so ever in that you would never be willing to do that. I am sure you would for a number of people close to you. Hence again my rightful stance in how humans are inherantly selfish towards those they love. But this is the problem with love. Its never extended with the same passion to everything around us

Now you can claim to thibnk you do good, but you would never for one second give up everything and go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle, because rightly. You would hold a view to look towards those you hold most dear. Hence its this selfish nature of humans that will always be their undoing. because its extremely rare you will find someone that will offer to give up everything in order to not do something for themselves, but for the existance of this very planet.

So spare me your pitiful contributions. The reality is the human race obly ever has cared about itself and always will. It will always continue to do so until its too late. Then they will fight amongst themselves blaming each other. If you had a shread of honesty in you. Then you would agree I am right.

The best chance for the future is not some marxist bullshit around destroying captalism. Its about getting companies globally on board to tackle climate change. More importantly the fossil fuel companies, but please spare me what you think you do that is important or caring you arrogant selfish prick. As lets face it. You would rightly drop at a hat to be with the ones you most loved over saving the planet and guess what Ben

Nobody would blame you and i certainly would not either

What I am showing is I am sick and tired of hypocritical leftish tossers like you. That like everyone else cares and does care about those closets to them and think this makes them actually caring individuals. Its rare when this is expanded towards the global reality of our planet. We might all be in outrage over wrongs, but all the majority of people do and you included is sit back and piss and moan. You have not the capability of doing something actually worthy for the greater good of this planet and neither am I. Nor would I profess to do so and yet you try to claim you do.

So fuck off yourself you arrogant ignorant hypocrite

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Agreed.  

Air conditioning is also a huge contributor. Probably should eliminate most of that too.  Won't have much impact on you, but it was 95 degrees here yesterday.  

People got by before without the invention of air conditioning

Of course i am happy to pay for Quill to come down with a hand fan and cool you down mate...  Sorry lol

Or you could avoid such a terrible situation and we build more man made reservoirs. To then be able to go for a dip to cool off?

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

People got by before without the invention of air conditioning

Of course i am happy to pay for Quill to come down with a hand fan and cool you down mate...  Sorry lol

Or you could avoid such a terrible situation and we build more man made reservoirs. To then be able to go for a dip to cool off?

Every lake save one in Texas is manmade. We are running out of rivers to dam up.

We can survive without AC. Many third world nations do it. I don't know how many Americans are ready to live like a third world nation though.

But more importantly, because of the sheer number of humans outside of the US and Western nations, I'm not sure that very many people in the third world, want to stay in that lifestyle, when a more modern one is finally within their grasp.

Americans could hit zero carbon emissions, and the rest of the developing world could offset that by trading their bikes and donkeys for cars.

Vintage wrote:Going back to hunter/gathers won't solve the problem at least not without a drastic fall in population numbers and time for the things we hunt and gather to regenerate enough.

phildidge wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:I buy energy-efficient everything. I've driven a car maybe half a dozen times this year. I air-dry my clothing whenever possible. I recycle. I collect rainwater.

When I had my own apartment, I paid extra for electricity that was 100-percent wind-generated. Living with eddie, we switched to a 100-percent green energy plan. She doesn't own a car, so when we're together, we walk, car-pool and use public transport.

Though I have been eating more meat while in Texas, in England I have plenty of days where I'm totally vegetarian, or eat one meal with meat (you can ask edds, I don't eat much anyway).

To paraphrase Gandhi, I am the change I wish to see in the world. But not enough people will live like me voluntarily to fix climate change (which we're past the point of fixing anyway; now all we can do is try to mitigate the damage, and we're not even doing that).

So fuck off Didge, you don't know the first thing about me.

Your contribution is minimal and quite pathetic

So I am not going to fuck off because like i said like the selfish human that you are. You are certainly not willing to properly sacrifice everything for the greater good of this planet and it survival

I dont claim to do so, but i get sick and tired of self proclaiming leftist tossers like you. Thinking you can berate people on the right or left in what they are doing to combat climate change. When you claim they are doing little, when you yourself do little yourself. You are what is the defintion of the worst hypocrisy. Your view of injuistice is a joke when you constantly allow a poster to get away with constant antisemitism here.

I know you think you are important, when in reality, that is how arrogantly humans think and believe they are. Because not many humans are willingly to sacrifice for the sake of a greater good. Of course you have some evil shit heads that think sacrificing themselves throught terrorism is done for the greater good, but it never is. As that is based on beliefs and ideology that seeks to harm people. What really takes sacrifice, is placing ourselves before everythint else. Where I have no doubt what so ever in that you would never be willing to do that. I am sure you would for a number of people close to you. Hence again my rightful stance in how humans are inherantly selfish towards those they love. But this is the problem with love. Its never extended with the same passion to everything around us

Now you can claim to thibnk you do good, but you would never for one second give up everything and go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle, because rightly. You would hold a view to look towards those you hold most dear. Hence its this selfish nature of humans that will always be their undoing. because its extremely rare you will find someone that will offer to give up everything in order to not do something for themselves, but for the existance of this very planet.

So spare me your pitiful contributions. The reality is the human race obly ever has cared about itself and always will. It will always continue to do so until its too late. Then they will fight amongst themselves blaming each other. If you had a shread of honesty in you. Then you would agree I am right.

The best chance for the future is not some marxist bullshit around destroying captalism. Its about getting companies globally on board to tackle climate change. More importantly the fossil fuel companies, but please spare me what you think you do that is important or caring you arrogant selfish prick. As lets face it. You would rightly drop at a hat to be with the ones you most loved over saving the planet and guess what Ben

Nobody would blame you and i certainly would not either

What I am showing is I am sick and tired of hypocritical leftish tossers like you. That like everyone else cares and does care about those closets to them and think this makes them actually caring individuals. Its rare when this is expanded towards the global reality of our planet. We might all be in outrage over wrongs, but all the majority of people do and you included is sit back and piss and moan. You have not the capability of doing something actually worthy for the greater good of this planet and neither am I. Nor would I profess to do so and yet you try to claim you do.

So fuck off yourself you arrogant ignorant hypocrite

So Ben, you can prove me wrong here

As what are you willingly to sacrifice?

Are you willing to give up everything you love in order to save this planet?

The answer will be no, because your love is far deeper to a few individuals and nobody would blame you for that

Hence for you to tell me to fuck off, when I know and understand the limitations of humans

That in reality its only one in a million people willing to sacrifice everything they love for the greater good. Shows you took what I said personally and fail to understand love and what you are willing to sacrifice for this. Again nobody would blame you, but you are willing to shat on others politically for far less.

Hence that makes you a hypocrite. Its why I presented the hunter gatherer lifestyle to Vegans and they all fliped out and why? Because they knew I was right and inherantly selfish themselves. As they would never be willing to sacrifice themselves this way for the planet. As it would be the one way in order to combat global warming over night

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


So Ben, you can prove me wrong here

As what are you willingly to sacrifice?

Are you willing to give up everything you love in order to save this planet?

The answer will be no, because your love is far deeper to a few individuals and nobody would blame you for that

Hence for you to tell me to fuck off, when I know and understand the limitations of humans

That in reality its only one in a million people willing to sacrifice everything they love for the greater good. Shows you took what I said personally and fail to understand love and what you are willing to sacrifice for this. Again nobody would blame you, but you are willing to shat on others politically for far less.

Hence that makes you a hypocrite. Its why I presented the hunter gatherer lifestyle to Vegans and they all fliped out and why? Because they knew I was right and inherantly selfish themselves. As they would never be willing to sacrifice themselves this way for the planet. As it would be the one way in order to combat global warming over night

The top two causes of added CO2 in the atmosphere are transportation and electricity generation.

Address those and you've basically addressed climate change. We have green electric and electric cars -- that's at least 90 percent of the problem solved, if we could only get EVERYONE to do it. And they wouldn't be giving up a thing, so all this talk of sacrifice is bullshit.

But you're not going to get people to trade in their gas guzzlers for electric cars voluntarily -- governments are going to have to force them to.

didge wrote:

You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


So Ben, you can prove me wrong here

As what are you willingly to sacrifice?

Are you willing to give up everything you love in order to save this planet?

The answer will be no, because your love is far deeper to a few individuals and nobody would blame you for that

Hence for you to tell me to fuck off, when I know and understand the limitations of humans

That in reality its only one in a million people willing to sacrifice everything they love for the greater good. Shows you took what I said personally and fail to understand love and what you are willing to sacrifice for this. Again nobody would blame you, but you are willing to shat on others politically for far less.

Hence that makes you a hypocrite. Its why I presented the hunter gatherer lifestyle to Vegans and they all fliped out and why? Because they knew I was right and inherantly selfish themselves. As they would never be willing to sacrifice themselves this way for the planet. As it would be the one way in order to combat global warming over night

The top two causes of added CO2 in the atmosphere are transportation and electricity generation.

Address those and you've basically addressed climate change. We have green electric and electric cars -- that's at least 90 percent of the problem solved, if we could only get EVERYONE to do it. And they wouldn't be giving up a thing, so all this talk of sacrifice is bullshit.

But you're not going to get people to trade in their gas guzzlers for electric cars voluntarily -- governments are going to have to force them to.

You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

I never said the government has to become authoritarian. The government simply has to follow science, which faith-based people such as yourself perceive as an authoritarian viewpoint.

You rank hypocrite -- you would never support a government policy not based on facts and science, but you do in this case because of your faith in humanity to voluntarily give up all the niceties of modern life and, as you put it, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

What sort of complete moron would think people would take such drastic, harmful action against themselves without it being mandated?

The kind of moron that you are, I see.

And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

I never said the government has to become authoritarian. The government simply has to follow science, which faith-based people such as yourself perceive as an authoritarian viewpoint.

You rank hypocrite -- you would never support a government policy not based on facts and science, but you do in this case because of your faith in humanity to voluntarily give up all the niceties of modern life and, as you put it, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

What sort of complete moron would think people would take such drastic, harmful action against themselves without it being mandated?

The kind of moron that you are, I see.

And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

You said not once but twice for the governement to intervene and put in measures did you not?

That is not democray but authoritarianism

You then claim i am faith based when i back the science that stats there is an issue with global warming

Seriously calm down you emotional dick, you are embarressing yourself now

You then even further embarress yourself and claim i would not support science

Please show in any post on this forum where in any case I have done so?

If not, I shall await your apology.

The reality is here, you did not like me pulling you up on the fact you are a hypocrite Ben. As all humans are including me and I am not afrid to admit this, but when you make up complete bullshit as you have done here claiming i go against sicence. Then I know you are an emotional tit. I will put this down to you missing Eddie and only this once. 

My point has still gonje above your head. Many people claim they would sacrifice, yet the reality is they would not and this is simple why. They place those closest to them over everyone else. hence why it takes a special person to place others above themselves and those they most love. You are certainly not one of those people. You would be selfish and place being with Eddie first and foremost and guess what ben. Nobody would blame you

What I am showing is you are fucll of shit just like most progressive fake idiots

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


You said not once but twice for the governement to intervene and put in measures did you not?

That is not democray but authoritarianism

You then claim i am faith based when i back the science that stats there is an issue with global warming

Seriously calm down you emotional dick, you are embarressing yourself now

You then even further embarress yourself and claim i would not support science

Please show in any post on this forum where in any case I have done so?

If not, I shall await your apology.

The reality is here, you did not like me pulling you up on the fact you are a hypocrite Ben. As all humans are including me and I am not afrid to admit this, but when you make up complete bullshit as you have done here claiming i go against sicence. Then I know you are an emotional tit. I will put this down to you missing Eddie and only this once. 

My point has still gonje above your head. Many people claim they would sacrifice, yet the reality is they would not and this is simple why. They place those closest to them over everyone else. hence why it takes a special person to place others above themselves and those they most love. You are certainly not one of those people. You would be selfish and place being with Eddie first and foremost and guess what ben. Nobody would blame you

What I am showing is you are fucll of shit just like most progressive fake idiots

How does missing eddie have anything to do with our discussion? If I'm being short with you, it's because you're being stupid.

You keep saying people would have to go back to the Stone Age in order to save the planet, because that shows what an utter scientific illiterate you really are. You don't go by the science on this at all, and this very thread is enough to prove it, over and over.

Look, Didge, if you want to be an utter pisshead, be my guest -- I have no problem with it. I just wish you wouldn't pollute my forum with your alcohol-soaked insanity while you're three sheets to the wind.

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

I never said the government has to become authoritarian. The government simply has to follow science, which faith-based people such as yourself perceive as an authoritarian viewpoint.

You rank hypocrite -- you would never support a government policy not based on facts and science, but you do in this case because of your faith in humanity to voluntarily give up all the niceties of modern life and, as you put it, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

What sort of complete moron would think people would take such drastic, harmful action against themselves without it being mandated?

The kind of moron that you are, I see.

And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

Vintage wrote:We should ban personal transport, especially in towns and cities if only the governments would put in place good public transport. I read the other day that Dunkirk, I think it was, has laid on free public transport in the city and have excellent services from the city centre to outlaying towns and villages. The number of cars in the city at anytime has fallen drastically. The uptake has been up 70% on weekdays and something like 130% on weekends. Shops have reported more business. Apparently there's a bus every ten minutes going wherever.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

phildidge wrote:


You just about dodged and avoided every point I made

You want others to act and are not willing to make a sacrifice yourself

hence humans are like I said inherantly selfish to their own kind and species

You then think the solution sis for Governements to become authoritarian

I seriously disapir at your stupidity

You want to surrender democracy and not want humanity to pull togethert to solve this issue

You utter nazi

I never said the government has to become authoritarian. The government simply has to follow science, which faith-based people such as yourself perceive as an authoritarian viewpoint.

You rank hypocrite -- you would never support a government policy not based on facts and science, but you do in this case because of your faith in humanity to voluntarily give up all the niceties of modern life and, as you put it, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

What sort of complete moron would think people would take such drastic, harmful action against themselves without it being mandated?

The kind of moron that you are, I see.

And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

We are nowhere near being able to replace fossil fuels.  Not with current technology.  In fact, we will need more fossil fuels in the short term.  

Even the most progressive countries are shooting for phasing out fossil fuels over the next 30 years, and they don't really know how they are going to do it.  

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

I never said the government has to become authoritarian. The government simply has to follow science, which faith-based people such as yourself perceive as an authoritarian viewpoint.

You rank hypocrite -- you would never support a government policy not based on facts and science, but you do in this case because of your faith in humanity to voluntarily give up all the niceties of modern life and, as you put it, return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

What sort of complete moron would think people would take such drastic, harmful action against themselves without it being mandated?

The kind of moron that you are, I see.

And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

We are nowhere near being able to replace fossil fuels.  Not with current technology.  In fact, we will need more fossil fuels in the short term.  

Even the most progressive countries are shooting for phasing out fossil fuels over the next 30 years, and they don't really know how they are going to do it.  

Maddog wrote:https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/eu-countries-have-no-concrete-plans-to-phase-out-fossil-fuel-subsidies-report/

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:


We are nowhere near being able to replace fossil fuels.  Not with current technology.  In fact, we will need more fossil fuels in the short term.  

Even the most progressive countries are shooting for phasing out fossil fuels over the next 30 years, and they don't really know how they are going to do it.  

Actually we are able to replace many fossil fuels mate

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Actually we are able to replace many fossil fuels mate

We're making dents.  But we are bumping into technology and economics.  

phildidge wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

How does missing eddie have anything to do with our discussion? If I'm being short with you, it's because you're being stupid.

You keep saying people would have to go back to the Stone Age in order to save the planet, because that shows what an utter scientific illiterate you really are. You don't go by the science on this at all, and this very thread is enough to prove it, over and over.

Look, Didge, if you want to be an utter pisshead, be my guest -- I have no problem with it. I just wish you wouldn't pollute my forum with your alcohol-soaked insanity while you're three sheets to the wind.

You are being emotional and emotionally compremised because you are not understanding my point
Given the choice of saving the planet and being with Eddie. It would not even be a hard decision for you
You would rightly be with eddie

I am saying the bets and most effective way to combat global warming would be for humanity to make the ultimate sacrifice and go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle. I am not saying we should. I am simple arguing this would be the most effective policy in doing so and arguing also that many humans and you proving this. That they are so selfish. They would enver do so. As you are effectivelly proving how its humans that matter more to you than any other species. You would never make this sacrifice, because in reality humans are prejudice towards other species in order for their own survival. I am just being realistic and you do not like me being honest here

Look at how angry you are being with me on this. That says everything about how right I am and how left wing people hate to understand that in reality they are prejudiced. As they will always look to save the life of a human over any other animal species. I can admit this and you live in fear of admitting this

Go figure

phildidge wrote:your insults were petty and off the school ground determinology

Vintage wrote:How do you persuade ordinary people many who are just getting by to give up anything (if indeed they have anything to give up) or that things can get worse when the rich and powerful are carrying on as normal because they have the money to 'off set their carbon footprint'. People with private jets, yachts etc. very large automobiles that you almost need a following tanker to refuel, people who preach what you should do but do the opposite - the Duke and Duchess of Sussex come to mind, one of the Kardashians spending more than 2 million dollars on a birthday bash and vast amounts on presents for their children, egotistical celebrity actors preaching what you should be doing, taking in a migrant, forgiving terrorists, cutting down your already meagre personal carbon footprint while living the high life themselves. It would be nice to see an example set, Frogmore Cottage - Cottage that's funny, has an eco friendly heating system - what ordinary people can afford to install that in their - er cottages..

Vintage wrote:I think people of my age group could manage, if we regressed to the early 20th. century, we were brought up to conserve for many reasons, one being economic of course. I was brought up with no central heating, once a week bath, the rest of the time you had a strip wash, in a cold back 'kitchen', it was of course coal or gas but if we could use something else. Food was mostly fresh and veg home grown, otherwise it was produced in the locality, none of the kind of thing like potatoes grown in Pembroke and sent to Newcastle I think it is, then distributed back to S Wales stores, keeping a lot of things local would help a lot, and with jobs, you cooked the food as you needed it. Entertainment was mainly communal, ie concerts, cinemas, local pubs and clubs, we did have radios though now its all personal entertainment on demand. TV if you were lucky (my aunts and uncles clubbed together to buy my gran and granpa a TV or of course well off.

Vintage wrote:I worry about that as well. Some would cope but the rest what a mess it would be.
Even my generation had it easy compared to your dad's experience, thankfully we've improved the lot of each generation at least for the most part but at what cost.  

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

We're making dents.  But we are bumping into technology and economics.  

We arre making very good leaps and bounds in changing technology

The sissue really is changing the perceptions of people

Like I say I walk to work

Many parents should walk their children to school for example

People take cares for granted now mate

I guess this is different in Texas based on distances

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

We arre making very good leaps and bounds in changing technology

The sissue really is changing the perceptions of people

Like I say I walk to work

Many parents should walk their children to school for example

People take cares for granted now mate

I guess this is different in Texas based on distances

Most people in Texas Live in areas designed around the car.  Walking really isn't an option.  I live in an area developed over 100 years ago, so I walk to a lot of places and ride my bike.  

Right now Texas generates 22% of its electricity from wind power.  The reason it's not 62 or 92 % is technology and cost.  the wind doesnt always blow and it blows in different parts of the state at different times. The electricity generated has to moved around the grid to be used where it's needed. And right now it can't be stored.  Nuclear is a good option but that freaks people out.  

Long story short, the US nor any other country is remotely close to goung off of fossil fuels with out a massive change in conveniences and economy destroying actions.  

Victorismyhero wrote:well a new crop of solar cells are going in at chez nous this autumn...shouild have me about 75% removed from the grid
the only problem is the regulations concerning electrical installations in this country....which are ridiculous, beyond belief....
BUT there is a way round them...see they ONLY concern installations connected to the grid, SO...if I have a second and separate installation, say supplying my lights, which does not draw from the grid but only from my solar and battery system the wiring regulations and competent persons  regulations dont apply, so I can do it myself and not have to pay some shit for brains sparkey an arm leg and right testicle to do it for me. Nor do I have to pay some half wit from the local council a fortune to look at it grunt twice and pass it....

I can install 24V to 240 v inverters and run my fish tanks and electronics as well  and leave only the high load intermittent loads like kettle, oven toaster on the grid mains until such time as I can get more solar panels....

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:
People got by before without the invention of air conditioning

Of course i am happy to pay for Quill to come down with a hand fan and cool you down mate...  Sorry lol

Or you could avoid such a terrible situation and we build more man made reservoirs. To then be able to go for a dip to cool off?

Every lake save one in Texas is manmade. We are running out of rivers to dam up.

We can survive without AC. Many third world nations do it. I don't know how many Americans are ready to live like a third world nation though.

But more importantly, because of the sheer number of humans outside of the US and Western nations, I'm not sure that very many people in the third world, want to stay in that lifestyle, when a more modern one is finally within their grasp.

Americans could hit zero carbon emissions, and the rest of the developing world could offset that by trading their bikes and donkeys for cars.

'Wolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:
People got by before without the invention of air conditioning

Of course i am happy to pay for Quill to come down with a hand fan and cool you down mate...  Sorry lol

Or you could avoid such a terrible situation and we build more man made reservoirs. To then be able to go for a dip to cool off?

Every lake save one in Texas is manmade. We are running out of rivers to dam up.

We can survive without AC. Many third world nations do it. I don't know how many Americans are ready to live like a third world nation though.

But more importantly, because of the sheer number of humans outside of the US and Western nations, I'm not sure that very many people in the third world, want to stay in that lifestyle, when a more modern one is finally within their grasp.

Americans could hit zero carbon emissions, and the rest of the developing world could offset that by trading their bikes and donkeys for cars.

The increasing demand for extra air-conditioning across the Western world comes down to one simple fact --  

Home builders being allowed (even openly encouraged by many financial lenders in many places..) to build totally crap houses, often clearly unsuitable to those regions that they are being built in..

If houses, apartments, etc. are built with proper regard to local climates, with features such as :

Proper ventilation, air flow and air drainage,
Sufficient ventilation, along with adequate ceiling heights,
Good insulation --  relevant to local climates, (window tinting/insulation and using double/triple-glazed windows in colder places, also belongs in this category..),
Proper water control :  drainage, storage and use,
Adequate shading, Proper eaves, outlawing dark-coloured roofing,
Using the proper materials and methods for where they are,
And with correct orientation re: solar heating, cooling, prevailing winds..

Then  the demand for air-conditioning could easily be reduced by 50 -- 80+% in modern day buildings.

Unfortunately, todays building standards authorities are more interested in pandering to greedy builders aiming to maximise their profits, often using unqualified day labour for many routine jobs,  rather than doing what's right for both the customers and the environment..

Proof of just how corrupt the modern building scene is can be seen in the simple fact that owner builders and renovators are able to produce better and more efficient buildings at a price point 20 -->>40% lower than those usurious 'master' builder companies...

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Most people in Texas Live in areas designed around the car.  Walking really isn't an option.  I live in an area developed over 100 years ago, so I walk to a lot of places and ride my bike.  

Right now Texas generates 22% of its electricity from wind power.  The reason it's not 62 or 92 % is technology and cost.  the wind doesnt always blow and it blows in different parts of the state at different times. The electricity generated has to moved around the grid to be used where it's needed. And right now it can't be stored.  Nuclear is a good option but that freaks people out.  

Long story short, the US nor any other country is remotely close to goung off of fossil fuels with out a massive change in conveniences and economy destroying actions.  

Well how do you think Texas got to 22% and thus renewable energy?

Of course its going to take time and changes, but it is a necessity for the future and there is no point further putting this off

Costa Rico is now basically running off renewable energy

https://www.sciencealert.com/costa-rica-s-electricity-run-entirely-renewables-300-days-2017-power-green

It is of course going to cost more in the short term but be finnanically better allround for people to go to reneable energy

That is a no brainer mate

Ben wrote:And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Well how do you think Texas got to 22% and thus renewable energy?

Of course its going to take time and changes, but it is a necessity for the future and there is no point further putting this off

Costa Rico is now basically running off renewable energy

https://www.sciencealert.com/costa-rica-s-electricity-run-entirely-renewables-300-days-2017-power-green

It is of course going to cost more in the short term but be finnanically better allround for people to go to reneable energy

That is a no brainer mate

It got there through technolgy.  

I'm simply saying that in 2019 this comment is false and will be so for the next couple of decades at least.  

Ben wrote:And I've already shown that not much needs to be sacrificed -- only burning fossil fuels, which we already have the technology to replace. We literally won't notice the difference, but you, in your scare-mongering way, must try to manipulate people into thinking we have to give up modernity in order to save the planet.