So this is how I am and this is why I can call myself honest

by eddie Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:02 am

First topic message reminder :

So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.

This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.

My question is this: Would any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

by Guest Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:

“Really? Wow. I dated and lived with black guys for years and they never got offended. Sorry you felt offended. Not too sure why. Would you like some water for your taste buds?”

That's because they knew you.

I dated a Muslim girl. What I could say to her, and a random Muslim I met in public were worlds apart.

And for the record, that "I dated (fill in the blank), won't get you off the hook if someone is offended by a stereotype.

What happened? She was very good looking. Had an Italian restaurant, right, you said, I think and was ethnically Albanian?

Sorry to here that you are not together anymore

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:51 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Because it was the fact that I don’t stop myself from communicating with people exactly how I feel I can.
I’m not afraid to step outside of the “safe circle” of communication.

You mean you just say whatever comes into your head, no matter how daft it is. Laughing

by eddie Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Because it was the fact that I don’t stop myself from communicating with people exactly how I feel I can.
I’m not afraid to step outside of the “safe circle” of communication.

You mean you just say whatever comes into your head, no matter how daft it is.

Well I always speak from my heart. It has never failed me. And yes, I’m often daft. Razz

by Maddog Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:43 am

eddie wrote:And you also have to appreciate it’s my smile and my manner and the fact I touch people, my hand on their arm, my attentiveness when they walk through the door....

It’s an innate sense of people. It’s why I was chosen for the position I’m in.

Oh, well if you grope them while stereotyping it's OK then. tongue

Like I said earlier. You being a female will give you a great deal more latitude with men, especially older ones that are not as sensitive to these things. You could call me a dumb ass redneck and I would probably laugh.

You walk up to a bunch of young, black females and ask them if they want chitterlings and greens, and they might not find that comment very amusing, no matter how smiley and touchy you are.

by Maddog Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:46 am

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

That's because they knew you.

I dated a Muslim girl. What I could say to her, and a random Muslim I met in public were worlds apart.

And for the record, that "I dated (fill in the blank), won't get you off the hook if someone is offended by a stereotype.

What happened? She was very good looking. Had an Italian restaurant, right, you said, I think and was ethnically Albanian?

Sorry to here that you are not together anymore

She got smart.

They all do sooner or later.

by eddie Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:And you also have to appreciate it’s my smile and my manner and the fact I touch people, my hand on their arm, my attentiveness when they walk through the door....

It’s an innate sense of people. It’s why I was chosen for the position I’m in.

Oh, well if you grope them while stereotyping it's OK then.

Like I said earlier. You being a female will give you a great deal more latitude with men, especially older ones that are not as sensitive to these things. You could call me a dumb ass redneck and I would probably laugh.

You walk up to a bunch of young, black females and ask them if they want chitterlings and greens, and they might not find that comment very amusing, no matter how smiley and touchy you are.

You don’t know me at all.
I would say the exact same thing to a young, black female. Why wouldn’t I? Aren’t they humans like the old black guy in the OP?

by Maddog Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:50 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Oh, well if you grope them while stereotyping it's OK then.

Like I said earlier. You being a female will give you a great deal more latitude with men, especially older ones that are not as sensitive to these things. You could call me a dumb ass redneck and I would probably laugh.

You walk up to a bunch of young, black females and ask them if they want chitterlings and greens, and they might not find that comment very amusing, no matter how smiley and touchy you are.

You don’t know me at all.
I would say the exact same thing to a young, black female. Why wouldn’t I? Aren’t they humans like the old black guy in the OP?

Humans with different life experiences.

I live in a world where a red hat sets people off, but you do you boo.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:43 pm

What I want to know is why you're so fond of navel gazing eddie. Your avatar is all about you being "yourself", and you often talk about how honest you are, and how you're different to a lot of people.

by eddie Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:05 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:What I want to know is why you're so fond of navel gazing eddie. Your avatar is all about you being "yourself", and you often talk about how honest you are, and how you're different to a lot of people.

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

by Syl Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:37 am

I think most people are basically honest, dont mistake tact for dishonesty.
People who lie are usually doing it because they are covering up wrongdoings, or they want to fit in so say what they believe other people want to hear.
Lying can start in childhood and become a habit, maybe their parents were not very understanding so a kid lies to please that parent, and so it carries on through adulthood.

Thats my theory anyway.

by veya_victaous Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It's a fact in our society. That's why we ask it on most government forms. My race is white.

We are all the same species.

I think.

Your race is human, your social construct racial classifcation is white

Hence society created such constructs

That does not make them a biological fact

It makes them a concept

You do understand the difference?

Anyway, let science explain for you

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Anyway I dont want to detract from the point Eddie is making

Lates dude

I'm not talking about biology.

I am talking about society.

We dont live in laboratory.

We live in a place where my race is considered white.

I live in a world where terms like racial and racist exist.

down here 'white' isn't really considered a race
the white races here that have larger communities are anglos, greeks, turks, lebs, maltese, italians. there are smaller groups (like french and german) and there are mixed whites as well

we are less colour focused with our labels, we tend to use the nation or continent they are from. unless like the Mediterraneans they have another slang name like 'wogs' (socially acceptable down here)

by Eilzel Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:34 am

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:What I want to know is why you're so fond of navel gazing eddie. Your avatar is all about you being "yourself", and you often talk about how honest you are, and how you're different to a lot of people.

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

Aren't you conflating two different things here?

Not saying every thought that comes into your head doesn't make you dishonest, does it?

On your example, many people just wouldn't even consider mentioning the colour of his skin, not because they 'fear' doing so, but because it simply wouldn't cross their mind.

I am an ultra honest person, I love have open, frank discussions. Sometimes I might say what I think about something, but other times I might just not care to. Maybe because I don't want a discussion about whatever it is. Maybe because doing so might hurt feelings and I really don't think it important enough to say that thing other than me 'wanting to say what I want all the time'.

Does that make me (or anyone else) dishonest?

I'll also add, no one I'm close to strikes me as being dishonest, or holding back - but maybe we're just generally more open up North Cool

by Syl Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:29 pm

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

Aren't you conflating two different things here?

Not saying every thought that comes into your head doesn't make you dishonest, does it?

On your example, many people just wouldn't even consider mentioning the colour of his skin, not because they 'fear' doing so, but because it simply wouldn't cross their mind.

I am an ultra honest person, I love have open, frank discussions. Sometimes I might say what I think about something, but other times I might just not care to. Maybe because I don't want a discussion about whatever it is. Maybe because doing so might hurt feelings and I really don't think it important enough to say that thing other than me 'wanting to say what I want all the time'.

Does that make me (or anyone else) dishonest?

I'll also add, no one I'm close to strikes me as being dishonest, or holding back - but maybe we're just generally more open up North

100% agree.

And Eddie, remember the other thread you posted up about honesty?
You declined to confront several of the questions asked in that one....total honesty can often be brutal and unkind.

by Ben Reilly Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:32 pm

I'm sure that if Edds had the time and energy to reply to every question in that thread, she would have. Sometimes there's just not enough time, or we run out of patience with people who don't understand.

by Syl Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:35 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I'm sure that if Edds had the time and energy to reply to every question in that thread, she would have. Sometimes there's just not enough time, or we run out of patience with people who don't understand.

OK, also it could have gotten uncomfortable, which total honesy disreguarding other peoples feelings often can.

by Eilzel Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:09 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:What I want to know is why you're so fond of navel gazing eddie. Your avatar is all about you being "yourself", and you often talk about how honest you are, and how you're different to a lot of people.

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

Aren't you conflating two different things here?

Not saying every thought that comes into your head doesn't make you dishonest, does it?

On your example, many people just wouldn't even consider mentioning the colour of his skin, not because they 'fear' doing so, but because it simply wouldn't cross their mind.

I am an ultra honest person, I love have open, frank discussions. Sometimes I might say what I think about something, but other times I might just not care to. Maybe because I don't want a discussion about whatever it is. Maybe because doing so might hurt feelings and I really don't think it important enough to say that thing other than me 'wanting to say what I want all the time'.

Does that make me (or anyone else) dishonest?

I'll also add, no one I'm close to strikes me as being dishonest, or holding back - but maybe we're just generally more open up North

Bumped because it's an interesting topic and I'd like an answer Cool

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:52 am

I agree with what Les said

I can't find the exact quote but it something like
'if you always let your thoughts out through your mouth, there will be none left in your head'

another one is 'sometime it is better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you're dumb then open your mouth and confirm it'

it is not dishonest to be mysterious, and it is probably unwise to live your life as an 'open book'

I think some people like eddie can't help but be open, because it part of who they are. but similarly a lot of people that are closed books can't help it either. Most people are something in between but it's not necessarily through always guile or fear, often as not is just laziness.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:30 am

I'm just not impressed with this idea that people who say everything they're thinking are better than those who don't.

I consider myself to be an honest person, but that doesn't mean I have to be tactless or say everything which pops into my head. If someone asks me personal stuff which I don't want to answer, I'll probably make an excuse because I'm a private person and I don't tell the whole world about my life. I don't talk about my private life on forums very much, other than fairly trivial stuff.

I don't get this self-analysis thing which you seem to indulge in eddie. You don't have to keep telling people what you're like.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:31 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

Aren't you conflating two different things here?

Not saying every thought that comes into your head doesn't make you dishonest, does it?

On your example, many people just wouldn't even consider mentioning the colour of his skin, not because they 'fear' doing so, but because it simply wouldn't cross their mind.

I am an ultra honest person, I love have open, frank discussions. Sometimes I might say what I think about something, but other times I might just not care to. Maybe because I don't want a discussion about whatever it is. Maybe because doing so might hurt feelings and I really don't think it important enough to say that thing other than me 'wanting to say what I want all the time'.

Does that make me (or anyone else) dishonest?

I'll also add, no one I'm close to strikes me as being dishonest, or holding back - but maybe we're just generally more open up North

I dont think the colour of skin has anything to do with honesty, but racial viewing of people in the first place. Why look at them in a racial way?

However it is always best to be upfront and honest.

To many times I have seen people shy away from telling people what they are really thinking inside, due a a poor view this may upset them.

Sorry, that is not helping anywone learn, epecially when they are doing something stupid. They will then always go on thinking hat they are doing is right, when in fact its wrong and by not pointing this out to them. That person is not only being dishonest to themselves, or to their friend.

A real friend, is not afraid to hurt their feelings, when it comes to telling the truth for that individual and yourself. Its a way of opening up to problems and issues, to allow then people to help them see what they might be doing wrong. If people take offense to that, then clearly guilt is playing upon them, for them to feel upset. Of course some will feel a sense of betrayal, which is of course wrong, when the intention is to help and do good. Whether that person accepts or does not accept that honesty is down to them, but a fear to speak your mind, due a fear of hurt they may feel or a fear they will stop being your friend. Is not honesty but fear and negativity controlling that persons actions to remain quite.

We grow up with our parents teaching us right from wrong and most of all to be honest. As they will in the main as parents as we grow show more and more this honesty for us. Its different when we are so young and unable to process this, but by the time we reach 7 or 8. The more honesty from parents, helps that child grow and develope.

So if people are fraid to speak to their freind, incase they may hurt that friends feelings. They are then never being honesty to themselves or their friend, work collegue, family etc. The reality is this simple creates a fragility in people, if they cannot take burtal honesty. Only where poeople have severe mental health issues, its not the right approach to be brutally honest, but a slow path to recognition of what is wrong is still waht is rewquired. Leading them to understand themselves and recognise what is wrong.

So if people shy away from saying what they think, due to a fear of offending, then sorry. Then they are not being honest themselves and to me not being a true friend, family etc to those people we love.

by Eilzel Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:47 am

Thor wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:

Because I really think, no believe, that honest communication is sorely lacking in society. I have spent years finding myself wishing that people would really just say how they feel. Don’t you think it would lead to deeper relationships...friends, family, lovers?

How can we live this one short life not reaching out?

I’m no egotistical rags, I honestly don’t think I know anything or everything. It’s why I have no label and why I always question absolutely everything I think I believe.

Aren't you conflating two different things here?

Not saying every thought that comes into your head doesn't make you dishonest, does it?

On your example, many people just wouldn't even consider mentioning the colour of his skin, not because they 'fear' doing so, but because it simply wouldn't cross their mind.

I am an ultra honest person, I love have open, frank discussions. Sometimes I might say what I think about something, but other times I might just not care to. Maybe because I don't want a discussion about whatever it is. Maybe because doing so might hurt feelings and I really don't think it important enough to say that thing other than me 'wanting to say what I want all the time'.

Does that make me (or anyone else) dishonest?

I'll also add, no one I'm close to strikes me as being dishonest, or holding back - but maybe we're just generally more open up North

I dont think the colour of skin has anything to do with honesty, but racial viewing of people in the first place. Why look at them in a racial way?

However it is always best to be upfront and honest.

To many times I have seen people shy away from telling people what they are really thinking inside, due a a poor view this may upset them.

Sorry, that is not helping anywone learn, epecially when they are doing something stupid. They will then always go on thinking hat they are doing is right, when in fact its wrong and by not pointing this out to them. That person is not only being dishonest to themselves, but to their friend.

A real friend, is not afraid to hurt their feelings, when it comes to telling the truth for that individual and yourself. Its a way of opening up to problems and issues, to allow then people to help them see what they might be doing wrong. If people take offense to that, then clearly guilt is playing upon them, for them to feel upset. Of course some will feel a sense of betrayal, which is of course wrong, when the intention is to help and do good. Whether that person accepts or does not accept that honesty is down to them, but a fear to speak your mind, due a fear of hurt they may feel or a fear they will stop being your friend. Is not honesty but fear and negativity controlling that persons actions to remain quite.

We grow up with our parents teaching us right from wrong and most of all to be honest. As they will in the main as parents as we grow show more and more this honesty for us. Its different when we are so young and unable to process this, but by the time we reach 7 or 8. The more honesty from parents, helps that child grow and develope.

So if people are fraid to speak to their freind, incase they may hurt that friends feelings. They are then never being honesty to themselves or their friend, work collegue, family etc. The reality is this simple creates a fragility in people, if they cannot take burtal honesty. Only where poeople have severe mental health issues, its not the right approach to be brutally honest, but a slow path to recognition of what is wrong is still waht is rewquired. Leading them to understand themselves and recognise what is wrong.

So if people shy away from saying what they think, due to a fear of offending, then sorry. Then they are not being honest themselves and to me not being a true friend, family etc to those people we love.

Obviously with friends when they want/need to be told something then I'll tell them.

My post is referring to this notion that you should always say everything you're thinking, all of the time, which there is no reason to do and does not, imo, make you dishonesty. Dishonesty is to lie, and I don't think anyone here is a liar.

I also don't think that by not referring to race someone is being dishonest, that would be a nonsense idea.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 am

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:

I dont think the colour of skin has anything to do with honesty, but racial viewing of people in the first place. Why look at them in a racial way?

However it is always best to be upfront and honest.

To many times I have seen people shy away from telling people what they are really thinking inside, due a a poor view this may upset them.

Sorry, that is not helping anywone learn, epecially when they are doing something stupid. They will then always go on thinking hat they are doing is right, when in fact its wrong and by not pointing this out to them. That person is not only being dishonest to themselves, but to their friend.

A real friend, is not afraid to hurt their feelings, when it comes to telling the truth for that individual and yourself. Its a way of opening up to problems and issues, to allow then people to help them see what they might be doing wrong. If people take offense to that, then clearly guilt is playing upon them, for them to feel upset. Of course some will feel a sense of betrayal, which is of course wrong, when the intention is to help and do good. Whether that person accepts or does not accept that honesty is down to them, but a fear to speak your mind, due a fear of hurt they may feel or a fear they will stop being your friend. Is not honesty but fear and negativity controlling that persons actions to remain quite.

We grow up with our parents teaching us right from wrong and most of all to be honest. As they will in the main as parents as we grow show more and more this honesty for us. Its different when we are so young and unable to process this, but by the time we reach 7 or 8. The more honesty from parents, helps that child grow and develope.

So if people are fraid to speak to their freind, incase they may hurt that friends feelings. They are then never being honesty to themselves or their friend, work collegue, family etc. The reality is this simple creates a fragility in people, if they cannot take burtal honesty. Only where poeople have severe mental health issues, its not the right approach to be brutally honest, but a slow path to recognition of what is wrong is still waht is rewquired. Leading them to understand themselves and recognise what is wrong.

So if people shy away from saying what they think, due to a fear of offending, then sorry. Then they are not being honest themselves and to me not being a true friend, family etc to those people we love.

Obviously with friends when they want/need to be told something then I'll tell them.

My post is referring to this notion that you should always say everything you're thinking, all of the time, which there is no reason to do and does not, imo, make you dishonesty. Dishonesty is to lie, and I don't think anyone here is a liar.

I also don't think that by not referring to race someone is being dishonest, that would be a nonsense idea.

Why, what is wrong with being honest in what you think to anyone?

Do you want people to be true and honesty towards you?

Just how far to you think Managers would get with a workforce, if they were afraid to be honest on their performances?
They would of course by doing so look to help them better themselves and improve.
The only way those workers will improve, is through honesty.

If you are thinking about something and not able to say that, due to a fear it will offend. When your intention is to help. That is then not being honest to yourself or the person you are talking to. As why are you even having those thoughts?

If you believe and want people to speak truthfully and honest to you. Surely you would want to be truthful to others?

Of course its best to ask first whether if okay to point out some observations and be apporpiate and honest about your intentions why.
Say it in a way that shows you care and have their best interests at heart

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:03 pm

I mean i will give you an example Eilel
You have been brutally honest with me on how you think I am wrong to smoke and that in public spaces it should be banned.

You certainly were not afraid to hurt my feelings. As to you your intentions here are for good. Even though I disagree with you to ban in public spaces. As its going beyond a need. The reason I did get annoyed at times in that debate, was more due to guilt and knowing that I should not be smoking. I know that I should not and its being able to overcome that and quit. It was never your views on banning in public, but your honesty around me smoking in the first place. Where we are able to easily move on from that. Did that honesty effect me so badly from you?

No

Again its all about intentions to do good, as you are clearly having these thoughts in the first place.

If the views are ones of dislike about an individual and you do not say openly and honestly things are not going well. Then that is simple going to spiral out of control and that friendship will break badly. Some people are nasty in their views and get a kick out of them. Is that them being honest? I would question whether they would like this to themselves? Where its a hate/fear/negativity and not honesty driving that. Its more about people that allow themselves to be annoyed and then bite and react. We are all guilty of doing this. As we allow negativity to control our normally rational thinking.

Things thought and spoken honesty from a postive aspect to help and do good are never wrong. You should always trust your inner voice.

by Syl Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:12 pm

The thing with TOTAL honesty is, that is often just one persons opinion anyway. You could destroy someones confidence whilst you are patting yourself on the back that you are 100% honest and straight talking in everything you do and say.

I agree with the majority view here that most people are honourable and dont lie, but imo TOTAL honesty can sometimes be cruel and unproductive.

by Eilzel Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:25 pm

Thor wrote:I mean i will give you an example Eilel
You have been brutally honest with me on how you think I am wrong to smoke and that in public spaces it should be banned.

You certainly were not afraid to hurt my feelings. As to you your intentions here are for good. Even though I disagree with you to ban in public spaces. As its going beyond a need. The reason I did get annoyed at times in that debate, was more due to guilt and knowing that I should not be smoking. I know that I should not and its being able to overcome that and quit. It was never your views on banning in public, but your honesty around me smoking in the first place. Where we are able to easily move on from that. Did that honesty effect me so badly from you?

No

Again its all about intentions to do good, as you are clearly having these thoughts in the first place.

If the views are ones of dislike about an individual and you do not say openly and honestly things are not going well. Then that is simple going to spiral out of control and that friendship will break badly. Some people are nasty in their views and get a kick out of them. Is that them being honest? I would question whether they would like this to themselves? Where its a hate/fear/negativity and not honesty driving that. Its more about people that allow themselves to be annoyed and then bite and react. We are all guilty of doing this. As we allow negativity to control our normally rational thinking.

Things thought and spoken honesty from a postive aspect to help and do good are never wrong. You should always trust your inner voice.

I think you're over applying what I'm saying.

It is entirely situational.

With some people I'll always tell them what I'm thinking.

But if someone introduces me to their ugly baby, I'm not going to feel inclined to say "wow, what an ugly baby."

If I meet a client in a suit that is several sizes too small, I will not feel inclined to say "squeezed into that, didn't you"

But with friends, of course I'll be more frank. And I love exchanging political views with people even if we aren't that well acquainted yet.

Overall, I'm probably honest in just as many situations as yourself.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:25 pm

Managers at work don't generally say what they're thinking. They may well be thinking that an employee is useless but they don't say that do they? Well I did have one manager who said that to an employee, but they don't usually say it. They give them encouragment, and if that doesn't work they have to be a bit firmer. They don't get in rage like they'd like to do - not if they're a good manager.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:26 pm

I would also add Eilzel, that Eddie has basically an intention to always do good. Its takes moving mountains to get her annoyed. So to me, its why she understands why its best to always be honest. As seh comes from this with an intent to do good. Even though I disagree with her view to look racially at things. She this from an intent of good and homour. It worked so well, the person laughed and it broke the ice between them.

If people fear that may shatter someones confidence, then they are failing to understand that person already has low self esteem and fueling into that self esteem is not doing them any favour. It requires honesty to help them come to terms with learning to and become a confidence person. Playin g to the fragilities of people is a poor learning curve and it fails the person. As we all know they need help and that we should help them. I have helped many people with low self esteem and have always been honest with them. It helps them come to terms and recognise that they have issues. I always do so in a tacful way and to shows then that an issue can be turned into a problem and problems to me are solveable. If that person is willing to try.

So when people think they are helping, by again allowing fear to play on their mind, they may hurt them. Then there are hurting them still by not being honest about what they are suffering with and that person will have little hope of overcoming their insecurities.

by Eilzel Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:29 pm

Thor wrote:I would also add Eilzel, that Eddie has basically an intention to always do good. Its takes moving mountains to get her annoyed. So to me, its why she understands why its best to always be honest. As seh comes from this with an intent to do good. Even though I disagree with her view to look racially at things. She this from an intent of good and homour. It worked so well, the person laughed and it broke the ice between them.

If people fear that may shatter someones confidence, then they are failing to understand that person already has low self esteem and fueling into that self esteem is not doing them any favour. It requires honesty to help them come to terms with learning to and become a confidence person. Playin g to the fragilities of people is a poor learning curve and it fails the person. As we all know they need help and that we should help them. I have helped many people with low self esteem and have always been honest with them. It helps them come to terms and recognise that they have issues. I always do so in a tacful way and to shows then that an issue can be turned into a problem and problems to me are solveable. If that person is willing to try.

So when people think they are helping, by again allowing fear to play on their mind, they may hurt them. Then there are hurting them still by not being honest about what they are suffering with and that person will have little hope of overcoming their insecurities.

I don't question eddie's good intentions, she is a great person.

I question the assumption that not mentioning a person's skin colour in a given context makes someone dishonest.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Managers at work don't generally say what they're thinking. They may well be thinking that an employee is useless but they don't say that do they? Well I did have one manager who said that to an employee, but they don't usually say it. They give them encouragment, and if that doesn't work they have to be a bit firmer. They don't get in rage like they'd like to do - not if they're a good manager.

Being as I am a manager and have been and deal with many managers. They certainly are honest towards people. With their good and bad points. Even if they think the person is hopeless, they will endever to improve that individual. I will always ask the individual how they truthfully see how they think they are doing. Then pose examples where they have performed very poorly and ask, if they think they can improve on this. Its being tactful in the language we use to people, which is still being honest over how poor or good they are in their performance.

My boss, has no problem when I have made a mistake, telling me what a twat I have been and I laugh. It means we have gotten a position of trust between each other and are unlikely to offend each other.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:I would also add Eilzel, that Eddie has basically an intention to always do good. Its takes moving mountains to get her annoyed. So to me, its why she understands why its best to always be honest. As seh comes from this with an intent to do good. Even though I disagree with her view to look racially at things. She this from an intent of good and homour. It worked so well, the person laughed and it broke the ice between them.

If people fear that may shatter someones confidence, then they are failing to understand that person already has low self esteem and fueling into that self esteem is not doing them any favour. It requires honesty to help them come to terms with learning to and become a confidence person. Playin g to the fragilities of people is a poor learning curve and it fails the person. As we all know they need help and that we should help them. I have helped many people with low self esteem and have always been honest with them. It helps them come to terms and recognise that they have issues. I always do so in a tacful way and to shows then that an issue can be turned into a problem and problems to me are solveable. If that person is willing to try.

So when people think they are helping, by again allowing fear to play on their mind, they may hurt them. Then there are hurting them still by not being honest about what they are suffering with and that person will have little hope of overcoming their insecurities.

I don't question eddie's good intentions, she is a great person.

I question the assumption that not mentioning a person's skin colour in a given context makes someone dishonest.

I agree, in that I dont think it has any relevance, as I dont judge people by the colour of their skin

Eddie has her reasons as to why she believes it has benefits and i know she never judges people by the colour of their skin. I just think she thinks its beneficial to be open about peoples ethnic backgrounds as an ice breaker

She is saying though what she thinks and I admire that honesty

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:31 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Managers at work don't generally say what they're thinking. They may well be thinking that an employee is useless but they don't say that do they? Well I did have one manager who said that to an employee, but they don't usually say it. They give them encouragment, and if that doesn't work they have to be a bit firmer. They don't get in rage like they'd like to do - not if they're a good manager.

Being as I am a manager and have been and deal with many managers. They certainly are honest towards people. With their good and bad points. Even if they think the person is hopeless, they will endever to improve that individual. I will always ask the individual how they truthfully see how they think they are doing. Then pose examples where they have performed very poorly and ask, if they think they can improve on this. Its being tactful in the language we use to people, which is still being honest over how poor or good they are in their performance.

My boss, has no problem when I have made a mistake, telling me what a twat I have been and I laugh. It means we have gotten a position of trust between each other and are unlikely to offend each other.

I said they don't tell employees they're useless. If they did that, they'd be pulled up by their managers for bullying.

by Eilzel Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:32 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Managers at work don't generally say what they're thinking. They may well be thinking that an employee is useless but they don't say that do they? Well I did have one manager who said that to an employee, but they don't usually say it. They give them encouragment, and if that doesn't work they have to be a bit firmer. They don't get in rage like they'd like to do - not if they're a good manager.

Being as I am a manager and have been and deal with many managers. They certainly are honest towards people. With their good and bad points. Even if they think the person is hopeless, they will endever to improve that individual. I will always ask the individual how they truthfully see how they think they are doing. Then pose examples where they have performed very poorly and ask, if they think they can improve on this. Its being tactful in the language we use to people, which is still being honest over how poor or good they are in their performance.

My boss, has no problem when I have made a mistake, telling me what a twat I have been and I laugh. It means we have gotten a position of trust between each other and are unlikely to offend each other.

That's you though, didge, you are just one manager.

Some managers are honest, some aren't.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:32 pm

This thread isn't really a good example of honesty is it?

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Being as I am a manager and have been and deal with many managers. They certainly are honest towards people. With their good and bad points. Even if they think the person is hopeless, they will endever to improve that individual. I will always ask the individual how they truthfully see how they think they are doing. Then pose examples where they have performed very poorly and ask, if they think they can improve on this. Its being tactful in the language we use to people, which is still being honest over how poor or good they are in their performance.

My boss, has no problem when I have made a mistake, telling me what a twat I have been and I laugh. It means we have gotten a position of trust between each other and are unlikely to offend each other.

I said they don't tell employees they're useless. If they did that, they'd be pulled up by their managers for bullying.

Nobody is ever useless, as they would never be employed from the start. So why would you view someone that way?

Most Managers view people based on performance and look to help and strenghen their weaknesses

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:

Being as I am a manager and have been and deal with many managers. They certainly are honest towards people. With their good and bad points. Even if they think the person is hopeless, they will endever to improve that individual. I will always ask the individual how they truthfully see how they think they are doing. Then pose examples where they have performed very poorly and ask, if they think they can improve on this. Its being tactful in the language we use to people, which is still being honest over how poor or good they are in their performance.

My boss, has no problem when I have made a mistake, telling me what a twat I have been and I laugh. It means we have gotten a position of trust between each other and are unlikely to offend each other.

That's you though, didge, you are just one manager.

Some managers are honest, some aren't.

I agree some are good and some are bad and again its about the intentions

If someone looks as someone as useless, then they are not being honest themselves and have already given up on that employee

They to me are not fit to be managers

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:36 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I said they don't tell employees they're useless. If they did that, they'd be pulled up by their managers for bullying.

Nobody is ever useless, as they would never be employed from the start. So why would you view someone that way?

Most Managers view people based on performance and look to help and strenghen their weaknesses

Of course they can be useless. People get sacked for being useless. I see you're going to start introducing red herrings now.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Nobody is ever useless, as they would never be employed from the start. So why would you view someone that way?

Most Managers view people based on performance and look to help and strenghen their weaknesses

Of course they can be useless. People get sacked for being useless. I see you're going to start introducing red herrings now.

People get sacked for gross misconduct

That does not mean they are useless

by Syl Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:This thread isn't really a good example of honesty is it?

I was thinking that.
Peoples personalities are different, some say what pops into their heads at the time, some think about it....I think Eddie just goes with the flow of her thoughts (so do I) whatever they may be....though there has to be a filter somewhere .

You wouldnt think someone was really obese and tell them so and advise them to order something less fattening for eg....that would be cruel not honest.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Of course they can be useless. People get sacked for being useless. I see you're going to start introducing red herrings now.

People get sacked for gross misconduct

That does not mean they are useless

It's not always for gross misconduct. Anyway, as you're going off at a tangent and you're deciding what happens in all workplaces, I'll ignore your next post.

by Guest Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

People get sacked for gross misconduct

That does not mean they are useless

It's not always for gross misconduct. Anyway, as you're going off at a tangent and you're deciding what happens in all workplaces, I'll ignore your next post.

She me any company policy, that states a person will be sacked or disciplined for being useless?

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:45 pm

Syl wrote:

I was thinking that.
Peoples personalities are different, some say what pops into their heads at the time, some think about it....I think Eddie just goes with the flow of her thoughts (so do I) whatever they may be....though there has to be a filter somewhere .

You wouldnt think someone was really obese and tell them so and advise them to order something less fattening for eg....that would be cruel not honest.

Yes. I don't think that not telling a black man that he must like a certain food is being dishonest. I think of honesty more as integrity - doing or saying the right thing at the time.

by Syl Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

I was thinking that.
Peoples personalities are different, some say what pops into their heads at the time, some think about it....I think Eddie just goes with the flow of her thoughts (so do I) whatever they may be....though there has to be a filter somewhere .

You wouldnt think someone was really obese and tell them so and advise them to order something less fattening for eg....that would be cruel not honest.

Yes. I don't think that not telling a black man that he must like a certain food is being dishonest. I think of honesty more as integrity - doing or saying the right thing at the time.

Exactly. Many people wouldnt mention his colour because they simply wouldn't have connected a black man with spicy food....or a Chinese man with rice, or Italians with Spaghetti....and so on. Laughing

Some people are more open than others....even on forums, but that doesn't equate to whether they are more honest.

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Managers at work don't generally say what they're thinking. They may well be thinking that an employee is useless but they don't say that do they? Well I did have one manager who said that to an employee, but they don't usually say it. They give them encouragment, and if that doesn't work they have to be a bit firmer. They don't get in rage like they'd like to do - not if they're a good manager.

exactly
If i was totally honest I would not be very well liked at work Razz

and it wouldn't be productive, it would be much harder to convince the customer to let me 'fix' their 'solution'... if if I had just called them stupid mother fuckers because their 'solution' is a clusterfuck of idiocy So this is how I am and this is why I can call myself honest - Page 2 2396444674

So this is how I am and this is why I can call myself honest - Page 2 2396444674

by HoratioTarr Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:15 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Nobody is ever useless, as they would never be employed from the start. So why would you view someone that way?

Most Managers view people based on performance and look to help and strenghen their weaknesses

Of course they can be useless. People get sacked for being useless. I see you're going to start introducing red herrings now.

If you're taken on on a trial basis, then yes, the company can let you go if they're not happy with your performance.

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