Major terrorist plot in Holland

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:28 pm

Dutch police on Thursday foiled what it described as an attempt to commit a major terrorist attack with AK 47 machine guns, grenades and a car bomb.

Officers arrested seven suspects, aged between 21 and 34, who planned to attack an event with guns and grenades, and detonate the car bomb in a different location.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/27/dutch-police-foil-major-terror-plot-raids/

The enemy within...

by eddie Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Bloody hell.

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:10 pm

What evidence for the plan? Admittedly, if they had the armaments, it's eyebrow raising. But cops frequently cross the line between evidence and speculation.

Was the plan (to attack the event) written down in a letter, e-mail or any other form? Do they have some witness, or an insider? Otherwise, it's just 5-Kalashnikov's and an Iraqi.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Evidence is huge as they have been watching this terrorist group for months and who were well advanced in their planned attack.

3-4 of them had previously been arrested trying to go to Syria to join ISIS.

by Guest Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Evidence is huge as they have been watching this terrorist group for months and who were well advanced in their planned attack.

3-4 of them had previously been arrested trying to go to Syria to join ISIS.

Why are you even entertaining Quill's stupidity here

If he does not understand what the intelligence services do, then there is no point explaining

This is simple Quill trying to be a dick as usual

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Evidence is huge as they have been watching this terrorist group for months and who were well advanced in their planned attack.

3-4 of them had previously been arrested trying to go to Syria to join ISIS.

I saw all of that. I didn't ask what methods they were using (watching, records), but what specifically they had found. They won't get a conviction without evidence of a crime.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:55 pm

Wait and see... I'm sure they would have given them enough rope...

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Wait and see... I'm sure they would have given them enough rope...

I agree...wait and see.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:28 pm

And 2 US tourists were stabbed in a terrorist attack in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/31/double-stabbing-amsterdam-station-possible-terror-attack/

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And 2 US tourists were stabbed in a terrorist attack in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/31/double-stabbing-amsterdam-station-possible-terror-attack/

Different matter.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:48 pm

Same motive...

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Same motive...

Same alleged motive. We haven't seen anything about the theories of the two cases. Least of all have we seen any evidence that they are connected.

by nicko Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:00 pm

Fucking hell Quill, you are dense sometimes !

by Original Quill Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:59 pm

nicko wrote:Fucking hell Quill, you are dense sometimes !

Yet I ask the right questions. You've got to be a skeptic in order to be a good investigator.

In your business it's, blow the shit up and apologize to the women and children afterwards. My business requires a lot more precision.

by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Same motive...

Same alleged motive. We haven't seen anything about the theories of the two cases. Least of all have we seen any evidence that they are connected.

Both islamist motivated... try reading and you will see that...!

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:55 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Same alleged motive. We haven't seen anything about the theories of the two cases. Least of all have we seen any evidence that they are connected.

Both islamist motivated... try reading and you will see that...!

The articles say nothing about guilt. You talk about your rights to self-control of your country, yet you have nothing to say about rights to due process of law. Very sad.

Maybe you don't deserve freedom.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:46 pm

The articles give plenty of information for me to draw my own conclusions...

A group of Muslims getting guns and grenades and where half of them have previously been arrested trying to join ISIS in Syria...Islamist terrorists!!!

AN Afghan who stabbed 2 in Amsterdam... said in police interview that he did it because he was angry about Islam being insulted... Islamist terrorist!!!

What more do you need???

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The articles give plenty of information for me to draw my own conclusions...

A group of Muslims getting guns and grenades and where half of them have previously been arrested trying to join ISIS in Syria...Islamist terrorists!!!

We have plenty of gun collectors in the US. Are they heading to Syria as well? If your argument is simply reductionism (elimination of alternatives), you've left a lot undone. We have hunters, target practice enthusiasts, or simply people who like to collect and display guns...an early AK-47 is a rare piece.

Tommy Monk wrote:AN Afghan who stabbed 2 in Amsterdam... said in police interview that he did it because he was angry about Islam being insulted... Islamist terrorist!!!

We get these incidents too. Religious fanatics. Hearing voices. Bi-polar disorder. The list is endless. Chalk it up to stress, maybe homelessness, or simply adjusting to living in a foreign country.

And...you will admit, I trust, that you haven't exactly been hospitable toward people of the Islamic persuasion, have you tommy? Over the years I've know you, you've gone out of your way to generate hostility toward Muslims. That's at least borderline "insulting".

In any event, I don't see any evidence of a connection between the two incidents.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:27 pm

They were well advanced in their terrorist plot... also trying to buy bomb making materials...

The Afghan also admitted doing the stabbing because he was angry about so called insults to Islam...

And... it's not about me... is it...!

by nicko Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:02 pm

Quill, coming to a place near you ------eventually !

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They were well advanced in their terrorist plot... also trying to buy bomb making materials...

I'm curious, was it a fertilizer bomb? Fertilizer is also used in tomato gardens.

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The Afghan also admitted doing the stabbing because he was angry about so called insults to Islam...

He's right there. No doubt about it, you and your friends are most insulting when speaking about Islam.

by nicko Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:09 pm

Waste of time arguing with you, you need to take your blinkers off and see what's happening in other parts of the world, not the little space you occupy !

by Vintage Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:06 pm

Holland has very strict gun laws so I doubt owning a Kalashnikov is a legitimate let alone five. It may be possible with some versions of course but unlikely I would think, only the military are allowed automatic weapons, perhaps they were on leave and forgot to hand their weapons in?

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:29 pm

nicko wrote:Waste of time arguing with you, you need to take your blinkers off and see what's happening in other parts of the world, not the little space you occupy !

Nicko, it's because I'm a trained evidence-gatherer. The problem with you guys is you want to go on the seat of your pants. Oh, another anti-Muslim story, goody, goody.

All I have to do is point out the lack of a theory, and the lack of evidence. Easy peasy.

by Original Quill Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:32 pm

Vintage wrote:Holland has very strict gun laws so I doubt owning a Kalashnikov is a legitimate let alone five. It may be possible with some versions of course but unlikely I would think, only the military are allowed automatic weapons, perhaps they were on leave and forgot to hand their weapons in?

I'm sure there are legal exceptions for gun collectors. shooters and enthusiasts. The point is, nobody has investigated that...consequently, no one can yet prove a violation of the law.

And I don't see any link to terrorism in this particular act.

by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:41 pm

Next you'll be saying "it's only a few"...

Rolling Eyes

by Vintage Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:02 am

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote:Holland has very strict gun laws so I doubt owning a Kalashnikov is a legitimate let alone five. It may be possible with some versions of course but unlikely I would think, only the military are allowed automatic weapons, perhaps they were on leave and forgot to hand their weapons in?

I'm sure there are legal exceptions for gun collectors. shooters and enthusiasts. The point is, nobody has investigated that...consequently, no one can yet prove a violation of the law.

And I don't see any link to terrorism in this particular act.

I doubt that very much, a collection would be deactivated, I say again no one is allowed to own automatic weapons outside the military. ie no civilian gets to own one.

by Original Quill Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:58 am

Vintage wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm sure there are legal exceptions for gun collectors. shooters and enthusiasts. The point is, nobody has investigated that...consequently, no one can yet prove a violation of the law.

And I don't see any link to terrorism in this particular act.

I doubt that very much, a collection would be deactivated, I say again no one is allowed to own automatic weapons outside the military. ie no civilian gets to own one.

Are you sure about that? No exceptions? Or are you guessing? I'll bet there are exceptions for museums and dealers, etc. How can labs study AK-47's without working models?

by nicko Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:28 am

Why would they want to study them ! they have been around for 60 years or more, they have been studied to death. If your a Lawyer, I wouldn't want you to represent me , you don't seem to have a clue about what's going on outside your little bubble !

by Andy Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:02 am

When I saw that thread title, I thought that our old forum nemesis had really turned bad. I knew he was bonkers, but not dangerous, like Allakaka!

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:09 am

Original Quill wrote:What evidence for the plan? .

you needed no evidence in order to label kavanaugh as a bitter drunken woman abuser

why are you so suddenly interested in evidence now?

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:57 pm

Angry Andy wrote:When I saw that thread title, I thought that our old forum nemesis had really turned bad. I knew he was bonkers, but not dangerous, like Allakaka!

What is bonkers about the reality of this terrorist threat?

Are you claiming its fake?

Do you know how many Islamic terrorist attacks are carried out each, yet alone the numbers foiled?

by Tommy Monk Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:15 pm

Yeah... they just wanted to study the AK47s... and the grenades... and the car bomb...

And they only tried going to Syria to join ISIS last year to 'study's ISIS too...!

What a complete twat you are quill!!!

The only thing they study is the Koran!!!

by Original Quill Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:42 pm

nicko wrote:Why would they want to study them ! they have been around for 60 years or more, they have been studied to death. If your a Lawyer, I wouldn't want you to represent me , you don't seem to have a clue about what's going on outside your little bubble !

Haha...if you're a soldier, I wouldn't want you to defend me. You don't have a clue about what your fighting for, all you do is kill babies in a foreign land.

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:Why would they want to study them ! they have been around for 60 years or more, they have been studied to death. If your a Lawyer, I wouldn't want you to represent me , you don't seem to have a clue about what's going on outside your little bubble !

Haha...if you're a soldier, I wouldn't want you to defend me. You don't have a clue about what your fighting for, all you do is kill babies in a foreign land.

The thing is he actually has defended real people, not your imaginary world where you play lawyer online

Again with the false charge of baby killing, a typical tactic to goad and it always fails, because this is all you have to get at him

Most here are proud of the service that Nicko has done and just think less and less of you everytime you try to deligitimise him

It simple makes you come off very childish and bitter

by Original Quill Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:48 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:What evidence for the plan? .

you needed no evidence in order to label kavanaugh as a bitter drunken woman abuser

why are you so suddenly interested in evidence now?

Are you kidding? What do you think the testimony of Dr. Ford was? That was pure testimony about his drunkeness, his misogyny, and his gang-rape tendencies. He was his own witness about his alcoholism: first shock, then denial, then anger, finally victim posturing. I think the FBI should interview his wife.

by Original Quill Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... they just wanted to study the AK47s... and the grenades... and the car bomb...

And they only tried going to Syria to join ISIS last year to 'study's ISIS too...!

What a complete twat you are quill!!!

The only thing they study is the Koran!!!

Notice, now, you're arguing all the alternatives. I just need you to acknowledge them. You live in la-la land, with your own witches and goblins...only they are called Muslims. Oh dear, more myths.

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:

you needed no evidence in order to label kavanaugh as a bitter drunken woman abuser

why are you so suddenly interested in evidence now?

Are you kidding? What do you think the testimony of Dr. Ford was? That was pure testimony about his drunkeness, his misogyny, and his gang-rape tendencies. He was his own witness about his alcoholism: first shock, then denial, then anger, finally victim posturing. I think the FBI should interview his wife.

I think they need to dig deeper into Dr Ford

There is zero evidence he is an alcoholic. That is now the seventh lie you have made and anybody who is being accused and believes they are innocent. It is only natural to become angry.

You have not got a clue what you are talking about

Normal Reactions To False Accusations
by DrDeb Hirschhorn

This poor woman sat in my office weeping; she thought she was going crazy. We’ll call her Caroline. Here’s what happened: Her husband, we’ll call him Phil, decided that she was having an affair. She insisted she wasn’t, but he refused to believe her. Attacking a person with false accusations is abuse.

He started questioning every second of her day; it became a grilling. Not only didn’t he let up, but the stony silence of dinner was replaced after she’d fallen asleep at 2AM with more grilling. Needless to say, Caroline couldn’t readily fall asleep after that. She finally drifted into a disturbed sleep around 5 only to be awakened by her alarm an hour later.

In the morning, she came unglued, shouting and screaming. The children were frightened and Phil rushed to “protect” them from their “crazy” mother. This was the last straw. Now fear was added to distress and anger. Fear of losing her children. She called me for an emergency visit.

“You’re not crazy,” I told her. “Your reactions are consistent with a person under stress who is deprived of sleep, and who feels there is no exit.”

How many people out there think their reactions are crazy? How many of you are worried about this? Being calm in the face of attacks, especially false attacks, is highly unusual. That level of calmness tells me that either a person has been doing yoga meditation all his life or that he is emotionally cut off from his feelings. Now, that would be something to be concerned about.

In other words, it is normal to become upset, and normal to become highly upset when relentlessly attacked, especially falsely attacked, combined with threats to remove the children, however subtle these are. It’s normal also to lose it in the face of sleeplessness. If you remember, one of the reasons that the Guantanomo prisoners were considered to have been tortured was sleep deprivation. So this is another form of emotional abuse.

Sleep Deprivation Combined With False Accusations Will Produce Bad Reactions

This is from WedMD (webmd.com/sleep-disorders/guide): “Too little sleep may cause:

Memory problems
Depression
A weakening of your immune system, increasing your chance of becoming sick
Increase in perception of pain”
Note, please, my previous post which shows that people experience physical and emotional pain in the same center of the brain. Now, that’s interesting, isn’t it?

My bottom line here is that if a person who is

—falsely

—and relentlessly

—attacked

—and threatened

—and deprived of sleep

doesn’t act upset, then I’d be worried there is something wrong.

Finally, Caroline calmed down enough for us to plan exactly how she should handle her jealous husband.

by Tommy Monk Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... they just wanted to study the AK47s... and the grenades... and the car bomb...

And they only tried going to Syria to join ISIS last year to 'study's ISIS too...!

What a complete twat you are quill!!!

The only thing they study is the Koran!!!

Notice, now, you're arguing all the alternatives. I just need you to acknowledge them. You live in la-la land, with your own witches and goblins...only they are called Muslims. Oh dear, more myths.

I'm not arguing alternatives... the sarcasm was obviously lost on you...

And the threat from Islamist terrorism is very real...!

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:11 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:

you needed no evidence in order to label kavanaugh as a bitter drunken woman abuser

why are you so suddenly interested in evidence now?

Are you kidding? What do you think the testimony of Dr. Ford was?

it was an allegation, that's all.

allegations and evidence are two completely different things

lawyer

by Original Quill Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:37 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Are you kidding? What do you think the testimony of Dr. Ford was?

it was an allegation, that's all.

allegations and evidence are two completely different things

lawyer

So, to you, all witness testimony is only an allegation? Written testimony is only another form of witness testimony, which then is only an allegation? And, if Dr. Ford's disinterested testimony is insufficient, then surely the highly invested testimony of Mr. Kavanaugh is completely inadequate. What do you consider to be substantial evidence with which to confirm Kavanaugh?

Audio-visual only? We didn't have cameras everywhere back in July, 1982. If no evidence is sufficient, I guess we can't confirm Mr. Kavanaugh. That's all right with me.

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:

it was an allegation, that's all.

allegations and evidence are two completely different things

lawyer

So, to you, all witness testimony is only an allegation? Written testimony is only another form of witness testimony, which then is only an allegation? And, if Dr. Ford's disinterested testimony is insufficient, then surely the highly invested testimony of Mr. Kavanaugh is completely inadequate. What do you consider to be substantial evidence with which to confirm Kavanaugh?

Audio-visual only? We didn't have cameras everywhere back in July, 1982. If no evidence is sufficient, I guess we can't confirm Mr. Kavanaugh. That's all right with me.

yes it was an allegation without any evidence. are you suggesting she should be believed without question? are you saying no woman has ever made a false allegation?

as to witness testimonies - at least 3 out of the 5 other people named have denied all knowledge of this so called incident.

i hope the FBI do a thorough investigation.

i dont know whether she is being honest or not. in fact everything she says could be true but you cant just assume that without any kind of back up

by Original Quill Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:06 am

gelico wrote:as to witness testimonies - at least 3 out of the 5 other people named have denied all knowledge of this so called incident.

No, they haven't. They've said they don't remember. When they are questioned by the FBI, they can be prosecuted if they lie. We might see a change in tune.

by Original Quill Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:09 am

gelico wrote:yes it was an allegation without any evidence. are you suggesting she should be believed without question? are you saying no woman has ever made a false allegation?

She has no interest in the matter. Are you saying that she is not being truthful. What is your evidence?

by Original Quill Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:15 am

gelico wrote:i dont know whether she is being honest or not. in fact everything she says could be true but you cant just assume that without any kind of back up

So, you say, along with didge, that any woman who claim rape should not be believed?

This is why I say that women don't act as an interest group, in that they turn on each other without question. That is why you can't depend upon women as a group to vote for their own interests. They turn on each other.

Women were the ones who put Trump over the top in 2016, and they will be the ones who serve Trump's interests this election year.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But back to the Dutch allegations on this topic, I like your verve. You have helped prove that there is no evidence that these Iranians are terrorists. "Allegations and evidence are two different things." The claims of the police are just accusations...I mean, they are not even witnesses, but accusers. They have no evidence.

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:17 am

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:i dont know whether she is being honest or not. in fact everything she says could be true but you cant just assume that without any kind of back up

So, you say, along with didge, that any woman who claim rape should not be believed?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lie number 8

Where did I or Gelico claim that

Emotive bullshit lie yet again

Any allegation should be taken seriously and investigated

This claimaint put forward names of witnesses

They all state they have no idea what she is talking about

That means she has nothing to coroborate her claim

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:20 am

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:i dont know whether she is being honest or not. in fact everything she says could be true but you cant just assume that without any kind of back up

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But back to the Dutch allegations on this topic, I like your verve. You have helped prove that there is no evidence that these Iranians are terrorists. "Allegations and evidence are two different things." The claims of the police are just accusations...I mean, they are not even witnesses, but accusers. They have no evidence.

Actually there is such a thing called intelligence gathering which will be evidence

That is how plots are uncovered and foiled like this one

You are not privy to Dutch intelligence

This will come out within their trials

by Original Quill Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:09 pm

As gelico said:

gelico wrote:yes it was an allegation without any evidence. are you suggesting she should be believed without question? are you saying no woman has ever made a false allegation?

"Intelligence gathering" is mere "allegations", too. "Allegation without any evidence..." might be "false" and must be assumed so under western criminal justice standards.

So often these sorts of news blitzes come about when the authorities are having their budgets looked into by the legislature. That's when the agency parades out the drugs busted, or the arms confiscated. Remember that news story in New Mexico?

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