Why I Stopped Musturbating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GEMKpWKo4o


I think we are all guilty of this and me especially so at times.

Great video

This is failure to distinguish between normative (moral) thinking and veritable (factual) thinking. Normative statements speak to correctness, while veritable statements speak to truth. Of course, norms intrude into facts, as facts must always be framed. But when norms predominate it's easy to cross over, going from a descriptive viewpoint to a prescriptive viewpoint.

Many times in debates, a person will be providing a veritable, or descriptive statement, when someone assumes he or she is making a normative statement. It's easy to state that 'kids are rebellious', and be interpreted as saying, 'kids should be rebellious.' But it transforms the entire message.

The way to avoid this in interpreting others, is to look for normative terms, like: should, would, ought, must...having to do with 'best', more 'favorable' or 'recommended' behavior or condition. Alternatively, if the terms are dry statements of fact, expressing 'what it is' rather that 'what it should be', then the person is speaking veritably, or that is to say, factually.

Original Quill wrote:This is failure to distinguish between normative (moral) thinking and veritable (factual) thinking.  Normative statements speak to correctness, while veritable statements speak to truth.  Of course, norms intrude into facts, as facts must always be framed.  But when norms predominate it's easy to cross over, going from a descriptive viewpoint to a prescriptive viewpoint.

Many times in debates, a person will be providing a veritable, or descriptive statement, when someone assumes he or she is making a normative statement.  It's easy to state that 'kids are rebellious', and be interpreted as saying, 'kids should be rebellious.'  But it transforms the entire message.

The way to avoid this in interpreting others, is to look for normative terms, like: should, would, ought, must...having to do with 'best', more 'favorable' or 'recommended' behavior or condition.  Alternatively, if the terms are dry statements of fact, expressing 'what it is' rather that 'what it should be', then the person is speaking veritably, or that is to say, factually.

I think you got stuck on masterbating thinking


So lets test Quill on the video and see if he actually watched it


What did the video promote?

Unless of Quill wants to give us all a lesson on morals?



Priceless

Didge wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GEMKpWKo4o


I think we are all guilty of this and me especially so at times.

Great video

Bumped for people who are rational, which excludes Quill  

So you agree with me. It took you awhile, but the "must" imperative is one of those value words.

Didge wrote:...we are all guilty of this and me especially so at times.

I agree, this is one that in the past you have missed. We've had this discussion before ... as recently as a week or two ago. You are constantly confusing factual statements with normative statements.

So Quill cannot let it go and wants to continually talk about me

Be my guest sunshine.

It is what it is.

It's quite simple really. We can't control how others think or what they do, we can only control what we do ourselves.

Speaking of "musts", don't people use that word to apply to themselves? They must mow the lawn, they must sort out that paperwork, they must go out more, they must lose that weight, etc. If they don't actually do those things, they get annoyed and fed up.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's quite simple really. We can't control how others think or what they do, we can only control what we do ourselves.

Speaking of "musts", don't people use that word to apply to themselves? They must mow the lawn, they must sort out that paperwork, they must go out more, they must lose that weight, etc. If they don't actually do those things, they get annoyed and fed up.

Must mow the lawn?

Why?

Why must they sort out that paperwork?

As these actual needs, or how a society has made someone think they are a must?

Hence being annoyed over such things is based around against what people are taught

I mean is one more day going to make a difference, if you do not mow the lawn?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's quite simple really. We can't control how others think or what they do, we can only control what we do ourselves.

Speaking of "musts", don't people use that word to apply to themselves? They must mow the lawn, they must sort out that paperwork, they must go out more, they must lose that weight, etc. If they don't actually do those things, they get annoyed and fed up.

Must mow the lawn?

Why?

Why must they sort out that paperwork?

As these actual needs, or how a society has made someone think they are a must?

Hence being annoyed over such things is based around against what people are taught

I mean is one more day going to make a difference, if you do not mow the lawn?

People set themselves those targets, but because they probably don't want to actually do those things they procrastinate and then get annoyed with themselves.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Must mow the lawn?

Why?

Why must they sort out that paperwork?

As these actual needs, or how a society has made someone think they are a must?

Hence being annoyed over such things is based around against what people are taught

I mean is one more day going to make a difference, if you do not mow the lawn?

People set themselves those targets, but because they probably don't want to actually do those things they procrastinate and then get annoyed with themselves.

So in other words, they are allowing themselves to get annoyed over basically nothing?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

People set themselves those targets, but because they probably don't want to actually do those things they procrastinate and then get annoyed with themselves.

So in other words, they are allowing themselves to get annoyed over basically nothing?

Yes. What they could do is either do the task or stop setting themselves those goals. However, one doesn't want the grass to grow too high, or the paperwork to build up until it fills a whole room, so such targets are sensible.

Musturbation: Stop Rubbing Yourself the Wrong Way

http://albertellis.org/musturbation-stop-rubbing-wrong-way/

For those interested to learn more

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So in other words, they are allowing themselves to get annoyed over basically nothing?

Yes. What they could do is either do the task or stop setting themselves those goals. However, one doesn't want the grass to grow too high, or the paperwork to build up until it fills a whole room, so such targets are sensible.

Why should it matter if grass grows to high?

What real problems would this create?

Do they go out into countless fields in the country and mow the land there?

So again this view is based upon a view on what people are taught and perceive things should be

Goals are a good thing but as seen can also create so much negativity, that it can litterally drive people to do stupid things

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. What they could do is either do the task or stop setting themselves those goals. However, one doesn't want the grass to grow too high, or the paperwork to build up until it fills a whole room, so such targets are sensible.

Why should it matter if grass grows to high?

What real problems would this create?

Do they go out into countless fields in the country and mow the land there?

So again this view is based upon a view on what people are taught and perceive things should be

Goals are a good thing but as seen can also create so much negativity, that it can litterally drive people to do stupid things

One's garden would become like a jungle - which would matter to a lot of people. I certainly don't want my grass growing too high. Mowing one's lawn isn't really a stupid thing to do.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Why should it matter if grass grows to high?

What real problems would this create?

Do they go out into countless fields in the country and mow the land there?

So again this view is based upon a view on what people are taught and perceive things should be

Goals are a good thing but as seen can also create so much negativity, that it can litterally drive people to do stupid things

One's garden would become like a jungle - which would matter to a lot of people. I certainly don't want my grass growing too high. Mowing one's lawn isn't really a stupid thing to do.

So what is wrong with a jungle?

Are you saying we should ensure that we wipe out the jungles in places like Africa?

I never said it was a stupid thing to do. What I am asking you is why people think its a must to do and get so up tight over this, if they do not.

What humans are doing by this, is trying to manipulate and control nature

So, again I ask. What does it matter if the grass grows tall?

Is it based on a perceived view on how something should look?

Again, why are not these same people not flying to Africa, thinking its a must to mow the mass grasslands there?

P.S. what do you think would happen, if people did think its a must to mow the mass grasslands in Africa?

What do you think would happen to the eco system there?

A lot of people end up with cluttered houses and gardens because they don't deal with the mess as they go along. Then they become unhappy because they hate living in such a mess - sometimes to the extent that they can't move around their own house. That is bad for them - they become stressed and feel helpless because it all seems overwhelming. That's why people think they must mow the lawn or deal with the paperwork, or declutter their house. The problem is that they keep telling themselves that but they don't actually do it.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

One's garden would become like a jungle - which would matter to a lot of people. I certainly don't want my grass growing too high. Mowing one's lawn isn't really a stupid thing to do.

So what is wrong with a jungle?

Are you saying we should ensure that we wipe out the jungles in places like Africa?

I never said it was a stupid thing to do. What I am asking you is why people think its a must to do and get so up tight over this, if they do not.

What humans are doing by this, is trying to manipulate and control nature

So, again I ask. What does it matter if the grass grows tall?

Is it based on a perceived view on how something should look?

Again, why are not these same people not flying to Africa, thinking its a must to mow the mass grasslands there?

It's not a perceived view on how something should look. Many people want to use their garden and they can't really do that if they can't move in it for the grass.

Raggamuffin wrote:A lot of people end up with cluttered houses and gardens because they don't deal with the mess as they go along. Then they become unhappy because they hate living in such a mess - sometimes to the extent that they can't move around their own house. That is bad for them - they become stressed and feel helpless because it all seems overwhelming. That's why people think they must mow the lawn or deal with the paperwork, or declutter their house. The problem is that they keep telling themselves that but they don't actually do it.

So again we see a perceived view around clutter and mess, when I was talking about grass being allowed to grow tall. Which is by you perceived to be a mess and a jungle. Humans manipulate gardens, based on a perceived perception on how they should look. Which again is the problem. They dont want somethintg to be natural, but how they imagine something to look. It shows many of these people have never imagined how something left untouched can look beautiful and only see something beautiful through their own lenses.

So your view, that they must mow the lawn, is based on no more than a perception. As again, does nature need to be decluttered or mow its lawn?

The answer is no and its simple a human need, based around a perception taught

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

So what is wrong with a jungle?

Are you saying we should ensure that we wipe out the jungles in places like Africa?

I never said it was a stupid thing to do. What I am asking you is why people think its a must to do and get so up tight over this, if they do not.

What humans are doing by this, is trying to manipulate and control nature

So, again I ask. What does it matter if the grass grows tall?

Is it based on a perceived view on how something should look?

Again, why are not these same people not flying to Africa, thinking its a must to mow the mass grasslands there?

It's not a perceived view on how something should look. Many people want to use their garden and they can't really do that if they can't move in it for the grass.

Of course its a perceived view

Do you think Lions, Leopards ect would appreciate you mowing the grasslands of Africa? When they use this to hunt through stealth?

Again, people have preconceived ideas on how something should look and its not just with gardens, but people themselves.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not a perceived view on how something should look. Many people want to use their garden and they can't really do that if they can't move in it for the grass.

Of course its a perceived view

Do you think Lions, Leopards ect would appreciate you mowing the grasslands of Africa? When they use this to hunt through stealth?

Again, people have preconceived ideas on how something should look and its not just with gardens, but people themselves.

I'm not talking about lions and leopards in Africa, I'm talking about my garden. There are no lions and leopards in my garden.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Of course its a perceived view

Do you think Lions, Leopards ect would appreciate you mowing the grasslands of Africa? When they use this to hunt through stealth?

Again, people have preconceived ideas on how something should look and its not just with gardens, but people themselves.

I'm not talking about lions and leopards in Africa, I'm talking about my garden. There are no lions and leopards in my garden.

So how should a garden look?

Based on a perceived view of humans or naturally?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Of course its a perceived view

Do you think Lions, Leopards ect would appreciate you mowing the grasslands of Africa? When they use this to hunt through stealth?

Again, people have preconceived ideas on how something should look and its not just with gardens, but people themselves.

I'm not talking about lions and leopards in Africa, I'm talking about my garden. There are no lions and leopards in my garden.

no idea why I found that so funny

gelico wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not talking about lions and leopards in Africa, I'm talking about my garden. There are no lions and leopards in my garden.

no idea why I found that so funny

I wonder also myself

The fact that now Lions are now extinct in the UK, maybe the reason you need to center on

As I doubt it centered on how a garden should look to humas, but humans in their idiocy with you laughing, shows how ignorant people like you are gelico

Laugh it up

As that really is the problem

Didge wrote:

gelico wrote:





no idea why I found that so funny

I wonder also myself

The fact that now Lions are now extinct in the UK, maybe the reason you need to center on

As I doubt it centered on how a garden should look to humas, but humans in their idiocy with you laughing, shows how ignorant people like you are gelico

Laugh it up

As that really is the problem

well, I hope your post at least made sense to you

#a little less daft emotion and a little more logic#

i think that's the point he was making

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:

I wonder also myself

The fact that now Lions are now extinct in the UK, maybe the reason you need to center on

As I doubt it centered on how a garden should look to humas, but humans in their idiocy with you laughing, shows how ignorant people like you are gelico

Laugh it up

As that really is the problem

well, I hope your post at least made sense to you

#a little less daft emotion and a little more logic#

i think that's the point he was making

But that is the point gelico

You think everything is a joke

Is it a joke that Bees in this country are dying out and based on human intervention?

I mean I would love for you to apply at least some logic, but sadly that is a big stretch of the imagination

People like you gelico, as much as i like you , are emphatically dimwitted. Your though process is two dimentional. Its how xenophobia grows and why humans end up destroying most natural things

So I will ask you a simple question

Your beliefs are based on a preconception, are they not?

Do these preconceptions, actually care what happens elsewhere in nature?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not talking about lions and leopards in Africa, I'm talking about my garden. There are no lions and leopards in my garden.

So how should a garden look?

Based on a perceived view of humans or naturally?

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

Didge wrote:

gelico wrote:



well, I hope your post at least made sense to you

#a little less daft emotion and a little more logic#

i think that's the point he was making

But that is the point gelico

You think everything is a joke

Not entirely, however I like to have something to laugh at (perhaps an amusing post) It's good for the soul

People like you gelico, as much as i like you , are emphatically dimwitted. Your though process is two dimentional. Its how xenophobia grows and why humans end up destroying most natural things

hahaha I've said the same thing to you many times

but I guess you're right didge, after all you always are

if only I were as enlightened and wise and constantly right as you are

still, c'est la vie! as they say in Germany

take me as I am or not at all

have a great day, lovely didge

I've just shredded a load of paperwork which I no longer need, and I feel gooooooood. See?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So how should a garden look?

Based on a perceived view of humans or naturally?

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

So its based on your preconceived perception

You dont like long grass why?

I never said you should not want tall grass but why you are in combat with nature itself. You see you make things up, when you lose a rational argument. Its why gelico jumped in with such idocy. People are not able to back their views and this is seen here with you. Your preconceived view is that grass should be short. Its not based on logic, but on what you have been taught to believe. If it was based on logic, you would actually let it grow.

In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So how should a garden look?

Based on a perceived view of humans or naturally?

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

but but the lions and leopards????

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:


But that is the point gelico

You think everything is a joke

Not entirely, however I like to have something to laugh at (perhaps an amusing post)  It's good for the soul

People like you gelico, as much as i like you , are emphatically dimwitted. Your though process is two dimentional. Its how xenophobia grows and why humans end up destroying most natural things

hahaha I've said the same thing to you many times

but I guess you're right didge, after all you always are

if only I were as enlightened and wise and constantly right as you are

still, c'est la vie! as they say in Germany

take me as I am or not at all

have a great day, lovely didge

I am not always right and if you want to make this about me when yolu clearly have no answer to my points Gelico

So be it

I take it as a compliment that you turn this on me and fail to address a single point I made

I have always taken you as you are and why i am not afriad to take you to task also gelico over view you make

Would you rather i was a slave to your views?

gelico wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

but but the lions and leopards????

But the humans, and their perceived needs eh?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

hahahahha OMG! didge, you're being hilarious today


arguing over grass length has to be a new one even for you

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:



In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

hahahahha OMG! didge, you're being hilarious today


arguing over grass length has to be a new one even for you


 

You see, how badly have you not read a single thing I wrote?

Did i actually argue over grass length?

Shall i call you Cathy Newman now?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

So its based on your preconceived perception

You dont like long grass why?

I never said you should not want tall grass but why you are in combat with nature itself. You see you make things up, when you lose a rational argument. Its why gelico jumped in with such idocy. People are not able to back their views and this is seen here with you. Your preconceived view is that grass should be short. Its not based on logic, but on what you have been taught to believe. If it was based on logic, you would actually let it grow.

In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

I have several reasons for not liking long grass. Why would I let it grow if I like short grass? That would be absurd.

Are you suggesting that I should like long grass? If you like long grass, that's up to you, but it's not for to decide if I should like it or not.

I'm not losing a rational argument. You're being irrational - banging on about lions and leopards in Africa when I'm talking about my garden.

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:



In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

hahahahha OMG! didge, you're being hilarious today


arguing over grass length has to be a new one even for you


 

I like that fake grass - you never have to mow it.

gelico wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're the one talking about how something "should" look, not me. My garden looks how I want it to look, and it's looked after in accordance to what I want - ie, short grass. I don't want long grass. If you're saying that I should want long grass, you're the one who is indulging in musterbation.

but but the lions and leopards????

If a lion or leopard ever arrives in my garden, I'll rethink my policy about the length of my grass. However, do they even like long grass?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So its based on your preconceived perception

You dont like long grass why?

I never said you should not want tall grass but why you are in combat with nature itself. You see you make things up, when you lose a rational argument. Its why gelico jumped in with such idocy. People are not able to back their views and this is seen here with you. Your preconceived view is that grass should be short. Its not based on logic, but on what you have been taught to believe. If it was based on logic, you would actually let it grow.

In essence, you are saying you are at war with nature

I have several reasons for not liking long grass. Why would I let it grow if I like short grass? That would be absurd.

Are you suggesting that I should like long grass? If you like long grass, that's up to you, but it's not for to decide if I should like it or not.

I'm not losing a rational argument. You're being irrational - banging on about lions and leopards in Africa when I'm talking about my garden.

I am suggesting why you even dislike long grass?

Do you like a short or long dick?

Is longer or shorter better here?

Its also evolutionary, how women ae attracted to people taller them themselves
#
You lost the argument the moment you invoked a human perception over gardens and grass

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I have several reasons for not liking long grass. Why would I let it grow if I like short grass? That would be absurd.

Are you suggesting that I should like long grass? If you like long grass, that's up to you, but it's not for to decide if I should like it or not.

I'm not losing a rational argument. You're being irrational - banging on about lions and leopards in Africa when I'm talking about my garden.

I am suggesting why you even dislike long grass?

Do you like a short or long dick?

Is longer or shorter better here?

Its also evolutionary, how women ae attracted to people taller them themselves
#
You lost the argument the moment you invoked a human perception over gardens and grass

Why do I dislike long grass then?

Let's not lower the tone please.

Raggamuffin wrote:

gelico wrote:




hahahahha OMG! didge, you're being hilarious today


arguing over grass length has to be a new one even for you


 

I like that fake grass - you never have to mow it.

Hilarious

You cannot see the contradiction

Its really about you making an efort here with cutting grass rthat is the issue here

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


I am suggesting why you even dislike long grass?

Do you like a short or long dick?

Is longer or shorter better here?

Its also evolutionary, how women ae attracted to people taller them themselves
#
You lost the argument the moment you invoked a human perception over gardens and grass

Why do I dislike long grass then?

Let's not lower the tone please.

I have no idea what you have against long grass in that you think it needs cutting

You tell me?

Raggamuffin wrote:

gelico wrote:

but but the lions and leopards????

If a lion or leopard ever arrives in my garden, I'll rethink my policy about the length of my grass. However, do they even like long grass?

Have ypou ever thought that being a human is the problem here?

I'm now sorting out my remaining paperwork and organising it nicely. There are a few reasons for this.

Firstly, I can find documents more easily if I need them.

Secondly, If I died, someone has to go through all the paperwork, and I don't want them to have a breakdown over it.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why do I dislike long grass then?

Let's not lower the tone please.

I have no idea what you have against long grass in that you think it needs cutting

You tell me?

she already did

she prefers it short

why doesn't really matter does it?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If a lion or leopard ever arrives in my garden, I'll rethink my policy about the length of my grass. However, do they even like long grass?

Have ypou ever thought that being a human is the problem here?

No.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If a lion or leopard ever arrives in my garden, I'll rethink my policy about the length of my grass. However, do they even like long grass?

Have ypou ever thought that being a human is the problem here?

human beings? in a back garden of a house in which there are human beings?

problems indeed

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Have ypou ever thought that being a human is the problem here?

No.

Well I guess that is your first failing here Rags

All the best

I live in the hope Gelico and you will actually post something logical to rebuke my points

That is never going to happen with gelico, but you might Rags, as you are intelligent

Laters