The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit

First topic message reminder :

It's good to know that the government have decided that animals don't feel pain. Also, immigrants don't feel racism and poor people don't feel the cold.

The Tory Government has outdone itself when it comes to neglecting animal rights this week – by voting that all animals (apart from humans, of course) have no emotions or feelings, including the ability to feel pain.

Remember all that campaigning against the badger cull and May’s attempt to bring back fox-hunting? It was probably all a waste. As the Government begins to shape the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, it has taken a vote to scrap EU legislation that sees non-human animals as sentient beings. Once we leave the EU in 2019, it’s not only badgers and foxes that will be threatened by this change in law, but all animals that aren’t pets. So basically all animals that it will be profitable to exploit.

This vote comes in contrast to extensive scientific evidence that shows that other animals do have feelings and emotions, some even stronger than ours.

But politicians clearly think that they know better about animal brains than the majority of scientists on the planet. This complete lack of logic leads me to believe that many of our MPs probably have less intelligence than a jellyfish. But unfortunately I don’t have any stake in Parliament to vote through my personal opinions, unlike those MPs.

Realistically though, who would be surprised by this new vote? Despite Michael Gove’s calls to improve animal welfare standards post-Brexit, we all know the Government, and in fact most of the UK public, doesn’t really care about animals unless they’re cute and fluffy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-government-vote-animal-sentience-cant-feel-pain-eu-withdrawal-bill-anti-science-tory-mps-a8065161.html

So now we can't trust The Independent.

The sentience of animals will continue to be recognised and protections strengthened when we leave the EU, Environment Secretary Michael Gove confirmed today.

Mr Gove made a Written Ministerial Statement today. The full text is below.

Animal welfare – Michael Gove

This Government is committed to the very highest standards of animal welfare. As the Prime Minister has set out, we will make the United Kingdom a world leader in the care and protection of animals.

It has been suggested that the vote last week on New Clause 30 of the EU Withdrawal Bill somehow signalled a weakening in the protection of animals - that is wrong. Voting against the amendment was not a vote against the idea that animals are sentient and feel pain - that is a misconception.

Ministers explained on the floor of the house that this Government’s policies on animal welfare are driven by our recognition that animals are indeed sentient beings and we are acting energetically to reduce the risk of harm to animals – whether on farms or in the wild. The vote against New Clause 30 was the rejection of a faulty amendment, which would not have achieved its stated aims of providing appropriate protection for animals.

The Prime Minister has made clear that we will strengthen our animal welfare rules. This government will ensure that any necessary changes required to UK law are made in a rigorous and comprehensive way to ensure animal sentience is recognised after we leave the EU. The Withdrawal Bill is not the right place to address this, however we are considering the right legislative vehicle.

We are already proposing primary legislation to increase maximum sentences for animal cruelty from six months to five years, and the creation of a new statutory, independent body to uphold environmental standards.

The current EU instrument – Article 13 – has not delivered the progress we want to see. It does not have direct effect in law – in practice its effect is very unclear and it has failed to prevent practices across the EU which are cruel and painful to animals.

In contrast, here in the UK, we are improving animal welfare standards without EU input and beyond the scope of Article 13. We are making CCTV mandatory in all slaughterhouses – a requirement which goes above and beyond any EU rule. We will consult on draft legislation to jail animal abusers for up to five years – more than almost every other European nation. We propose combatting elephant poaching with a ban on the ivory trade which is more comprehensive than anywhere else in Europe. Our ban on microbeads which harm marine animals has been welcomed by Greenpeace as “the strongest in the world”, and is certainly the strongest in Europe.

Once we have left the EU there is even more we could do. EU rules prevent us from restricting or banning the live export of animals for slaughter. EU rules also restrict us from cracking down on puppy smuggling or banning the import of puppies under 6 months. Article 13 has not stopped any of these practices – but leaving the EU gives us the chance to do much better. We hope to say more in these areas next year.

This government will continue to promote and enhance animal welfare, both now and after we have left the EU.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

HoratioTarr wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:Oh dear.

Seems some folks are just too gullible.

Your trolling really is piss poor.   When you first burst in here with so much sardonic promise, I had high hopes...but alas....

I save the best trolling for those who will appreciate it.

Too bad those who can appreciate it tend to have all the power and zero sense of humour.

Didge wrote:

gelico wrote:


hi didge

i have to say i thought it was so bizarre - i had a friend over last night and was telling him and he said ''i can't see that one being likely, can you?.  i mean, can you imagine question time, or them being interviewed by andrew neil,,,,they would be utterly ripped to pieces over it.  this is wrong info, i guarantee it, it's either a spoof or someone's got their facts wrong''

Hi Gelico


I was suckered by this lol

well so was i when i first read it tbf. it was only later on when thinking about it a bit more it seemed too weird. there would be no way any of them could avoid the issue and they must've known that the public would go mad, so when my friend made that comment it confirmed that somehow this couldn't be true

smelly-bandit wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Your trolling really is piss poor.   When you first burst in here with so much sardonic promise, I had high hopes...but alas....

I save the best trolling for those who will appreciate it.

Too bad those who can appreciate it tend to have all the power and zero sense of humour.

Clearly, nobody on here appreciates you then, as I've yet to see you really blast the arse off someone.   You're amusing though, I'll give you that.

HoratioTarr wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

I save the best trolling for those who will appreciate it.

Too bad those who can appreciate it tend to have all the power and zero sense of humour.

Clearly, nobody on here appreciates you then, as I've yet to see you really blast the arse off someone.   You're amusing though, I'll give you that.

Listen sweetheart

Me just being here is triggering some of the snowflakes, that's me trolling them by breathing.

And you can't "blast the arse" off of idiots

''listen, sweetheart''



smelly, you total mug!

gelico wrote:

''listen, sweetheart''



smelly, you total mug!

Whatever do you mean?

Well, most of you fell for it, didn't you? Hook, line and bloody sinker.

Fake news in the online edition of a Left-leaning "media outlet" that set out deliberately to misrepresent the animal welfare policies not only of the present Conservative government but also, by default, those of previous Labour governments as well.

The reason that those "evil Tories" voted as they did on rejecting EU "regulations" regarding the treatment of animals as sentient beings was that existing current UK regulations are far, far superior to those of the EU, which has traditionally "accommodated" member states that still accept factory veal production, foie gras goose farms, bull fighting, battery egg production and a ghastly form of pig breeding that I will not even begin to describe.

That means that types of farm livestock production and the treatment of other animals that Brussels tolerates, or at least turns a blind eye to, will continue not to be tolerated under UK law in the same way...as they have not been tolerated for decades.

Is that what the brain-dead clowns like Wolfie, who could't wait to turn it into a foul-mouthed anti-Brit, anti-Tory rant,
really want? Bull fighting? Physical abuse of geese? Sows slaughtered so that allegedly "disease-free" piglets can be torn from their wombs? Calves removed from their mothers and force-fed with artificial composite to ensure white meat when they are slaughtered before even seeing a buttercup-strewn meadow?

The continued prevention of that vile sort of "sport" and livestock production in the UK was the purpose of the vote, and anyone who had the wit and intelligence to read the actual and factual background to it and the reason for it would have realised that the Indy-online version was a travesty of the truth and, I suspect, aimed at generating the predictable histrionic Loony Left reaction that we saw throughout the "social media", including on this site.

Idiots.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Well, most of you fell for it, didn't you? Hook, line and bloody sinker.

Fake news in the online edition of a Left-leaning "media outlet" that set out deliberately to misrepresent the animal welfare policies not only of the present Conservative government but also, by default, those of previous Labour governments as well.

The reason that those "evil Tories" voted as they did on rejecting EU "regulations" regarding the treatment of animals as sentient beings was that existing current UK regulations are far, far superior to those of the EU, which has traditionally "accommodated" member states that still accept factory veal production, foie gras goose farms, bull fighting, battery egg production and a ghastly form of pig breeding that I will not even begin to describe.

That means that types of farm livestock production and the treatment of other animals that Brussels tolerates, or at least turns a blind eye to, will continue not to be tolerated under UK law in the same way...as they have not been tolerated for decades.

Is that what the brain-dead clowns like Wolfie, who could't wait to turn it into a foul-mouthed anti-Brit, anti-Tory rant,
really want? Bull fighting? Physical abuse of geese? Sows slaughtered so that allegedly "disease-free" piglets can be torn from their wombs? Calves removed from their mothers and force-fed with artificial composite to ensure white meat when they are slaughtered before even seeing a buttercup-strewn meadow?

The continued prevention of that vile sort of "sport" and livestock production in the UK was the purpose of the vote, and anyone who had the wit and intelligence to read the actual and factual background to it and the reason for it would have realised that the Indy-online version was a travesty of the truth and, I suspect, aimed at generating the predictable histrionic Loony Left reaction that we saw throughout the "social media", including on this site.

Idiots.

Great post, until you got personal

He got punished for this, so why go off that?

To be fair wolf knows more about biology than most of us

He can certainly be a dick, but does that make you look good off this?

smelly-bandit wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Clearly, nobody on here appreciates you then, as I've yet to see you really blast the arse off someone.   You're amusing though, I'll give you that.

Listen sweetheart

Me just being here is triggering some of the snowflakes, that's me trolling them by breathing.

And you can't "blast the arse" off of idiots

You're just making yourself look like a tit a lot of the time.   The 'snowflakes' were being triggered long before you returned.    You're just not 'edgy' enough.  

HoratioTarr wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Listen sweetheart

Me just being here is triggering some of the snowflakes, that's me trolling them by breathing.

And you can't "blast the arse" off of idiots

You're just making yourself look like a tit a lot of the time.   The 'snowflakes' were being triggered long before you returned.    You're just not 'edgy' enough.  

Snowflakes will always be triggered.

I think you have built me up in your own mind.

Didge wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Well, most of you fell for it, didn't you? Hook, line and bloody sinker.

Fake news in the online edition of a Left-leaning "media outlet" that set out deliberately to misrepresent the animal welfare policies not only of the present Conservative government but also, by default, those of previous Labour governments as well.

The reason that those "evil Tories" voted as they did on rejecting EU "regulations" regarding the treatment of animals as sentient beings was that existing current UK regulations are far, far superior to those of the EU, which has traditionally "accommodated" member states that still accept factory veal production, foie gras goose farms, bull fighting, battery egg production and a ghastly form of pig breeding that I will not even begin to describe.

That means that types of farm livestock production and the treatment of other animals that Brussels tolerates, or at least turns a blind eye to, will continue not to be tolerated under UK law in the same way...as they have not been tolerated for decades.

Is that what the brain-dead clowns like Wolfie, who could't wait to turn it into a foul-mouthed anti-Brit, anti-Tory rant,
really want? Bull fighting? Physical abuse of geese? Sows slaughtered so that allegedly "disease-free" piglets can be torn from their wombs? Calves removed from their mothers and force-fed with artificial composite to ensure white meat when they are slaughtered before even seeing a buttercup-strewn meadow?

The continued prevention of that vile sort of "sport" and livestock production in the UK was the purpose of the vote, and anyone who had the wit and intelligence to read the actual and factual background to it and the reason for it would have realised that the Indy-online version was a travesty of the truth and, I suspect, aimed at generating the predictable histrionic Loony Left reaction that we saw throughout the "social media", including on this site.

Idiots.

Great post, until you got personal

He got punished for this, so why go off that?

To be fair wolf knows more about biology than most of us

He can certainly be a dick, but does that make you look good off this?

Since your post was most likely to be in response to my own I read it.

Wolfie's, er, knowledgeable comment on the thread topic read:

Theresa May is a "goddamned" brainless and spineless slut...

Her gov't has now proven itself to be the most fucked_up bunch of slimy self-serving geranium since the Thatcher regime -- the anti-science and anti-rationale inmates have taken over the asylum..

Can the British "establishment" possibly sink any lower ?

Not happy with their ongong protection of child abusers, paedophiles, corporate tax evaders, terrorist regimes, war criminals -- they have decided that only their chosen human British citizens can have emotions and feel pain -- animals don't, foreigners don't, immigrants don't ?!?

How long before they start removing particular ethnic, religious and economic (e.g. welfare recipients, pensioners..) groups from the select elitist citizenry ???

As we watch Britain crash and burn under this current bunch of stone-hearted fascist grubs, people who voted for this can ponder that sad fact at their leisure..

If you think that was an intelligent and informed comment on a serious issue, that's your business.

And "looking good" in this place is not one of my priorities.

Well said Fred, Wolfie is another Brit hater !

smelly-bandit wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


You're just making yourself look like a tit a lot of the time.   The 'snowflakes' were being triggered long before you returned.    You're just not 'edgy' enough.  

Snowflakes will always be triggered.

I think you have built me up in your own mind.

You're certainly accumulating a good amount of tosserage

HoratioTarr wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Snowflakes will always be triggered.

I think you have built me up in your own mind.

You're certainly accumulating a good amount of tosserage

Pissing off the right people eh??

smelly-bandit wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

You're certainly accumulating a good amount of tosserage

Pissing off the right people eh??

Not as well as you might.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Didge wrote:

Great post, until you got personal

He got punished for this, so why go off that?

To be fair wolf knows more about biology than most of us

He can certainly be a dick, but does that make you look good off this?

Since your post was most likely to be in response to my own I read it.

Wolfie's, er, knowledgeable comment on the thread topic read:

Theresa May is a "goddamned" brainless and spineless slut...

Her gov't has now proven itself to be the most fucked_up bunch of slimy self-serving geranium since the Thatcher regime --  the anti-science and anti-rationale inmates have taken over the asylum..

Can the British "establishment" possibly sink any lower ?

Not happy with their ongong protection of child abusers, paedophiles, corporate tax evaders, terrorist regimes, war criminals  --  they have decided that only their chosen human British citizens can have emotions and feel pain  --  animals don't, foreigners don't, immigrants don't  ?!?

How long before they start removing particular ethnic, religious and economic (e.g. welfare recipients, pensioners..) groups from the select elitist citizenry ???

As we watch Britain crash and burn under this current bunch of stone-hearted fascist grubs,  people who voted for this can ponder that sad fact at their leisure..

If you think that was an intelligent and informed comment on a serious issue, that's your business.

And "looking good" in this place is not one of my priorities.

So you are no excusing being nasty, based off him being nasty?

Yes he is intelligent espcially on biology

If he was not abusive, you would see that, and yet that is all you see

Try looking past his hateful posts and you would see

I do not deny when he is hateful and condemn that

That does not make him stupid does it?

Being abusive is one thing, arguing as smelly does that blacks are inferior is ignorant

Do you not argue that such a view is ignorant and absuive?

Never seen you say that and I know you stand against racism?

So why are you silent, when he is?

His views are born from the greatest ignorance and hate.

So you sure have a funny way of standing up to hate and abuse, by ignoring some and only condemning some.

Hey ho

Anyway, the point is here, is wolf ignorant?

No

Can he be hateful?

Yes