The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit

by eddie Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:35 pm

It's good to know that the government have decided that animals don't feel pain. Also, immigrants don't feel racism and poor people don't feel the cold.

The Tory Government has outdone itself when it comes to neglecting animal rights this week – by voting that all animals (apart from humans, of course) have no emotions or feelings, including the ability to feel pain.

Remember all that campaigning against the badger cull and May’s attempt to bring back fox-hunting? It was probably all a waste. As the Government begins to shape the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, it has taken a vote to scrap EU legislation that sees non-human animals as sentient beings. Once we leave the EU in 2019, it’s not only badgers and foxes that will be threatened by this change in law, but all animals that aren’t pets. So basically all animals that it will be profitable to exploit.

This vote comes in contrast to extensive scientific evidence that shows that other animals do have feelings and emotions, some even stronger than ours.

But politicians clearly think that they know better about animal brains than the majority of scientists on the planet. This complete lack of logic leads me to believe that many of our MPs probably have less intelligence than a jellyfish. But unfortunately I don’t have any stake in Parliament to vote through my personal opinions, unlike those MPs.

Realistically though, who would be surprised by this new vote? Despite Michael Gove’s calls to improve animal welfare standards post-Brexit, we all know the Government, and in fact most of the UK public, doesn’t really care about animals unless they’re cute and fluffy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-government-vote-animal-sentience-cant-feel-pain-eu-withdrawal-bill-anti-science-tory-mps-a8065161.html

by Cass Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 pm

Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

He does a disservice to jellyfish in this instance.

by eddie Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Cass wrote:Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

He does a disservice to jellyfish in this instance.

Hey, you don't have to be a vegetarian to care about animals, right? Or to realise that this is just typical conservative behaviour. I'd like someone to ask them how they'd feel if someone tortured their pet cat.

by Cass Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:49 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

He does a disservice to jellyfish in this instance.

Hey, you don't have to be a vegetarian to care about animals, right? Or to realise that this is just typical conservative behaviour. I'd like someone to ask them how they'd feel if someone tortured their pet cat.

Ah but it’s the same as a lot of republicans here. When an issue affects them personally, then it’s not so much fun and it becomes serious.

by Guest Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:00 pm

Cass wrote:Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

of course animals have feelings and emotions, especially dogs that i've had in the past.

as for not feeling physical pain,,,,,, try treading on the tail of my cats and they'll soon let you know about it

this is just part of the utter insanity we are heading into cass

rewriting facts to suit themselves

by Cass Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:02 pm

gelico wrote:
Cass wrote:Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

of course animals have feelings and emotions, especially dogs that i've had in the past.

as for not feeling physical pain,,,,,, try treading on the tail of my cats and they'll soon let you know about it

this is just part of the utter insanity we are heading into cass

rewriting facts to suit themselves

Nonononono

I am agreeing with you both.

I meant holy crapmuffins as to how any idiot could believe that animals don’t suffer.

Sorry for any confusion ladies.

by Guest Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Cass wrote:
gelico wrote:

of course animals have feelings and emotions, especially dogs that i've had in the past.

as for not feeling physical pain,,,,,, try treading on the tail of my cats and they'll soon let you know about it

this is just part of the utter insanity we are heading into cass

rewriting facts to suit themselves

Nonononono

I am agreeing with you both.

I meant holy crapmuffins as to how any idiot could believe that animals don’t suffer.

Sorry for any confusion ladies.

no, it's my fault cass. i knew exactly what you were saying but for some reason my reply sounded like i was arguing with you personally whereas it was against the fuckwitted decision of the government i was arguing against

my bad x

by Cass Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:06 pm

gelico wrote:
Cass wrote:

Nonononono

I am agreeing with you both.

I meant holy crapmuffins as to how any idiot could believe that animals don’t suffer.

Sorry for any confusion ladies.

no, it's my fault cass. i knew exactly what you were saying but for some reason my reply sounded like i was arguing with you personally whereas it was against the fuckwitted decision of the government i was arguing against

my bad x

Ok gotcha. My bad head is my excuse x

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:57 am

I've heard it all now. Animals don't feel pain.

That's why foxes scream when torn to shreds by dogs, why dogs whimper when hurt, but nope don't feel pain.

What planet are these politicians on. Animals have brains, heart, blood runs through they're veins, just like us.

This is just an excuse to have Fox hunting again.

by 'Wolfie Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:48 am

Theresa May is a "goddamned" brainless and spineless slut...

Her gov't has now proven itself to be the most fucked_up bunch of slimy self-serving geranium since the Thatcher regime -- the anti-science and anti-rationale inmates have taken over the asylum..

Can the British "establishment" possibly sink any lower ?

Not happy with their ongong protection of child abusers, paedophiles, corporate tax evaders, terrorist regimes, war criminals -- they have decided that only their chosen human British citizens can have emotions and feel pain -- animals don't, foreigners don't, immigrants don't ?!?

How long before they start removing particular ethnic, religious and economic (e.g. welfare recipients, pensioners..) groups from the select elitist citizenry ???

As we watch Britain crash and burn under this current bunch of stone-hearted fascist grubs, people who voted for this can ponder that sad fact at their leisure..

by Guest Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:23 am

Anti science starts with the idea that I can identify as an attack helicopter and you all have to agree with me

by 'Wolfie Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Anti science starts with the idea that I can identify as an attack helicopter and you all have to agree with me

Your attack helicopter only needs one of your "liberal" detractors to identify as an RPG...

And take you down in one fell swoop..

Kaboom !!!

by Guest Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:53 pm

I have to say this really is a new low, this decision by the Tories.

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:55 pm

Bloody rotten to the core our government and Corbyn won't be any better.

We need a people party well there's of all us working class get a say, not bloody rich, powerful and elitist people. Time we fought back!

by 'Wolfie Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:17 pm

To make the political system more democratic, voting in both Britain and the USA should be made compulsory..

Then you might not have so many non-voters whinging after the event, that they didn't know what they were not voting for !

Then you need to introduce "Preferential voting" into the House of Commons and the US Congress to give a more representational 'lower house' than with the present "first past the post" winner takes all systems.

We also all need to get past the current "two party" dominations of the political status quo in all of our countries on here -- splitting the conservatives (Tories, Repubs, LNP..) into their "wets" and "drys" economic factions; and the Labor/Democrats into their left wing ('socialist') and right-wing ('pragmatic'/progressives) factions; would add more diversity to the houses -- and improve representatiom for the common people, while reducing the big business/corporatist influnces..

And abolish the hereditary British House of Perverts and Wastrels -- replacing it with a senate style upper house, voted in with a 'proportional' voting system...

And re-introduce some proper social/political/'civics' studies back into school curriculums -- so that people can undestand just how basic political and economic systems actually operate -- so hopefully so many ignorant people aren't being sucked into more extreme parties and fringe groups..

by nicko Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:50 pm

Magica, how about UKIP?

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:19 pm

nicko wrote:Magica, how about UKIP?

Hi Nicko, UKIP was great when Nigel Farage was leader, I voted for them all the time, but they're not doing so good now. If he went back I would vote them again,

I never vote Cons or Lab, hate them both, only Green party since Nigel Farage left.

by nicko Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:18 pm

If may gives 40 billion to the EU, I WILL VOTE FOR UKIP, Our next PM will be Corbyn after her cock up !

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:51 pm

Yes and that scares me too Nicko. I hope Farage takes the reins up on UKIP, he'll romp home I think.

by eddie Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:19 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:Anti science starts with the idea that I can identify as an attack helicopter and you all have to agree with me

Are you still repeating that bollocks? Rolling Eyes

by Andy Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:30 pm

gelico wrote:
Cass wrote:Holy crapmuffins.

I’m not a vegetarian but...this is such utter crap.

of course animals have feelings and emotions, especially dogs that i've had in the past.

as for not feeling physical pain,,,,,, try treading on the tail of my cats and they'll soon let you know about it

this is just part of the utter insanity we are heading into cass

rewriting facts to suit themselves

Try stamping on the tail of my Westie. You will get a 6 cell Maglite torch in the teeth.

by Andy Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:32 pm

magica wrote:Bloody rotten to the core our government and Corbyn won't be any better.

We need a people party well there's of all us working class get a say, not bloody rich, powerful and elitist people. Time we fought back!

The public WILL vote Corbyn in. If he is a failure after 5 years the voters get their say again.

by HoratioTarr Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:02 pm

The article states....

Under EU law it is illegal to test on animals for cosmetics like body wash and nail varnish. But this could easily be scrapped just like the recognition of animals as sentient beings has been.

This from PETA

Despite the remarkable progress that’s been made, ingredients used in cosmetics may still be tested on animals in the EU under REACH, the world’s largest chemical testing programme. Regardless of the clear mandate from the public and international governments on this issue, the European Commission (EC) and the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) are insisting on testing the chemicals used in cosmetics for which there’s a possibility of workforce exposure during manufacturing processes. This means that animals will, in fact, continue to suffer and die in tests for cosmetics ingredients.

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:36 pm

Angry Andy wrote:
magica wrote:Bloody rotten to the core our government and Corbyn won't be any better.

We need a people party well there's of all us working class get a say, not bloody rich, powerful and elitist people. Time we fought back!

The public WILL vote Corbyn in. If he is a failure after 5 years the voters get their say again.

I hope not, there's no one else unless Farage leads UKIP. I don't like Corbyn, he's to radical for me.

by magica Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:42 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:The article states....

Under EU law it is illegal to test on animals for cosmetics like body wash and nail varnish. But this could easily be scrapped just like the recognition of animals as sentient beings has been.

This from PETA

Despite the remarkable progress that’s been made, ingredients used in cosmetics may still be tested on animals in the EU under REACH, the world’s largest chemical testing programme. Regardless of the clear mandate from the public and international governments on this issue, the European Commission (EC) and the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) are insisting on testing the chemicals used in cosmetics for which there’s a possibility of workforce exposure during manufacturing processes. This means that animals will, in fact, continue to suffer and die in tests for cosmetics ingredients.

There is no right to experiment on animals, hunt them, have dogs tear foxes to pieces whilst alive, on any others animals killed like that.

I gave you a green HT, good post.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:53 am

magica wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:
magica wrote:Bloody rotten to the core our government and Corbyn won't be any better.

We need a people party well there's of all us working class get a say, not bloody rich, powerful and elitist people. Time we fought back!

The public WILL vote Corbyn in. If he is a failure after 5 years the voters get their say again.

I hope not, there's no one else unless Farage leads UKIP. I don't like Corbyn, he's to radical for me.

Corbyn's too radical but you'd vote Green? That's somewhat of a contradiction Laughing

by Syl Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:02 am

Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

by Maddog Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:56 am

Threads like this always make me hungry. Thankfully I just had some BBQ. No doubt the cow felt nothing prior to his slaughter and actually volunteered for the process. Cool

by Eilzel Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:01 am

Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:00 am

Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?

Much worse?

I can think of much worse

Economic disaster on the scale of the Venezuela
Mass unemployment
Leading to a mass increase in civil disorder
The country becoming a soft target to terrorism
The loss and protection of being a part of Nato

I could go on, it would be a thousand times worse

Its a long way to the next election and in a matter of weeks the Tories lost their Poll ratings.
So to say he has got it in the bag, is ridiculous at this stage and what a disaster it would be to have such idiots in charge that are appologists for socialism in Venezuela.

I can live with some stupidity around the laws on animals.

I doubt many can live with the UK having the economy facing socialist disaster

Most people are starting to see Corbyn for the lying slime ball that he is.

by 'Wolfie Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:19 am

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?
.............

I can think of much worse

Economic disaster on the scale of the Venezuela
Mass unemployment
Leading to a mass increase in civil disorder
The country becoming a soft target to terrorism
The loss and protection of being a part of Nato

.......................................
.................................
..........................
..................
...........

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit 3489511464

Britain is already sliding into a corporation&banker led economic depression, Dodge...

Zero hour contracts, record under-employment and hidden-unemployment..

No colonies left to plunder those much needed resources from..

Welfare and health spending squeezes and cuts..

Manufacturers exporting themselves..
The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit 3893789544

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit 3893789544

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit 1284863816

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit 1399249160

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:23 am

Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

Sorry Syl, but I can't leave that unchallenged. How can he be saying what the voters want to hear when he has been standing up for the principles he has put forward all his life? And you are never likely to meet a man less like a creep. Even those who oppose him speak of his warmth and humanity (and yes, I have met him). His policies are those pursued in places like Norway, Denmark etc where they are quite normal, they have a higher standard of living and have been voted some if the happiest places in the world to live. Here we are living under real creeps, who want to carry on lining their pockets at our expence (most of them have been linked to off shore account tax avoidance and having shares in companies making money from the privatisation of the NHS) under the biggest creep of all, May, a woman who has the effrontery to go on about her 'Christian values' while persuing policies that have been shown to produce poverty and homelessness for men, women and children and kill off the sick and disabled. In my view, any one who votes for them is responsible for that misery.

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:55 am

Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?

Yeah you'd see the opposite

Animals identifying as humans and getting all the rights associated with that

Rolling Eyes

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:56 am

eddie wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:Anti science starts with the idea that I can identify as an attack helicopter and you all have to agree with me

Are you still repeating that bollocks?

Because it's bollox

by Eilzel Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:12 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?

Yeah you'd see the opposite

Animals identifying as humans and getting all the rights associated with that

Carry on trolling.

by HoratioTarr Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:25 am

sassy wrote:
Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

Sorry Syl, but I can't leave that unchallenged. How can he be saying what the voters want to hear when he has been standing up for the principles he has put forward all his life? And you are never likely to meet a man less like a creep. Even those who oppose him speak of his warmth and humanity (and yes, I have met him). His policies are those pursued in places like Norway, Denmark etc where they are quite normal, they have a higher standard of living and have been voted some if the happiest places in the world to live. Here we are living under real creeps, who want to carry on lining their pockets at our expence (most of them have been linked to off shore account tax avoidance and having shares in companies making money from the privatisation of the NHS) under the biggest creep of all, May, a woman who has the effrontery to go on about her 'Christian values' while persuing policies that have been shown to produce poverty and homelessness for men, women and children and kill off the sick and disabled. In my view, any one who votes for them is responsible for that misery.

Probably because Norway is kicking out migrants with gusto. Or perhaps it has something to do with the Norwegian Government forcibly sterilising Romanis back in the 70's? Or could it be the seizing of Sami lands as they sought to eradicate the Sami culture.....one of the Norwegian policies was to beat Sami children for not speaking Norwegian? Also, Norway are not in the EU, which must be a bonus! As for Denmark, they had a 'Muslim ban' in place for 8 years until recently. Inger Stojberg, Minister of Integration, suspended Denmark's participation in the UN refuguee resettlement programme in November 2016. They also have a 24 year rule in place that means no migrant can bring a spouse under that age into the country.

Perhaps we need to follow this lead for the UK to become so 'Utopian'?

by HoratioTarr Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:30 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

As bad as you may think a Labour government would be, it couldn't possibly be worse. At the very least we wouldn't be seeing nonsense like we get regarding animal welfare.

And don't all politicians say what they think we will them support? Why is Corbyn a creep for that?

Yeah you'd see the opposite

Animals identifying as humans and getting all the rights associated with that

Animals should have the same rights. The right not be abused or tortured just like we have that right. Animals have no voice. Torturing an animal is tantamount to torturing a child in my eyes. They feel pain and agony both physical and mental just like we do.

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:31 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
sassy wrote:

Sorry Syl, but I can't leave that unchallenged. How can he be saying what the voters want to hear when he has been standing up for the principles he has put forward all his life? And you are never likely to meet a man less like a creep. Even those who oppose him speak of his warmth and humanity (and yes, I have met him). His policies are those pursued in places like Norway, Denmark etc where they are quite normal, they have a higher standard of living and have been voted some if the happiest places in the world to live. Here we are living under real creeps, who want to carry on lining their pockets at our expence (most of them have been linked to off shore account tax avoidance and having shares in companies making money from the privatisation of the NHS) under the biggest creep of all, May, a woman who has the effrontery to go on about her 'Christian values' while persuing policies that have been shown to produce poverty and homelessness for men, women and children and kill off the sick and disabled. In my view, any one who votes for them is responsible for that misery.

Probably because Norway is kicking out migrants with gusto. Or perhaps it has something to do with the Norwegian Government forcibly sterilising Romanis back in the 70's? Or could it be the seizing of Sami lands as they sought to eradicate the Sami culture.....one of the Norwegian policies was to beat Sami children for not speaking Norwegian? Also, Norway are not in the EU, which must be a bonus! As for Denmark, they had a 'Muslim ban' in place for 8 years until recently. Inger Stojberg, Minister of Integration, suspended Denmark's participation in the UN refuguee resettlement programme in November 2016. They also have a 24 year rule in place that means no migrant can bring a spouse under that age into the country.

Perhaps we need to follow this lead for the UK to become so 'Utopian'?

You missed the point entirely, I was talking about economic policy. And the happiness level was based on their income, pension, health care etc and was done before so called crackdowns, which are of ILLEGAL immigrants, not asylum seekers, who are legal

by HoratioTarr Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:42 am

sassy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Probably because Norway is kicking out migrants with gusto. Or perhaps it has something to do with the Norwegian Government forcibly sterilising Romanis back in the 70's? Or could it be the seizing of Sami lands as they sought to eradicate the Sami culture.....one of the Norwegian policies was to beat Sami children for not speaking Norwegian? Also, Norway are not in the EU, which must be a bonus! As for Denmark, they had a 'Muslim ban' in place for 8 years until recently. Inger Stojberg, Minister of Integration, suspended Denmark's participation in the UN refuguee resettlement programme in November 2016. They also have a 24 year rule in place that means no migrant can bring a spouse under that age into the country.

Perhaps we need to follow this lead for the UK to become so 'Utopian'?

You missed the point entirely, I was talking about economic policy. And the happiness level was based on their income, pension, health care etc and was done before so called crackdowns, which are of ILLEGAL immigrants, not asylum seekers, who are legal

Oh, that's all right then...

by Syl Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:12 pm

sassy wrote:
Syl wrote:Corbyn says whatever he thinks will ingratiate himself with the voters...creep.
Unfortunately it looks like he will be the next leader unless a miracle happens.
The alternative of Cons staying in is equally horrendous.

Not only do animals feel physical pain I believe very many species feel emotional pain too.

Sorry Syl, but I can't leave that unchallenged. How can he be saying what the voters want to hear when he has been standing up for the principles he has put forward all his life? And you are never likely to meet a man less like a creep. Even those who oppose him speak of his warmth and humanity (and yes, I have met him). His policies are those pursued in places like Norway, Denmark etc where they are quite normal, they have a higher standard of living and have been voted some if the happiest places in the world to live. Here we are living under real creeps, who want to carry on lining their pockets at our expence (most of them have been linked to off shore account tax avoidance and having shares in companies making money from the privatisation of the NHS) under the biggest creep of all, May, a woman who has the effrontery to go on about her 'Christian values' while persuing policies that have been shown to produce poverty and homelessness for men, women and children and kill off the sick and disabled. In my view, any one who votes for them is responsible for that misery.

He isn't in power yet, so what he will actually do opposed to what he continuously says he will do is yet to be seen.
I think he is a creep, I believe he puts on the act to be the man of the people, simply put I dont trust him.
I also believe he has turned many lifelong voters away from voting Labour(me included) whilst he is at the helm.

Theresa May is also a disaster for this country....don't worry I wont be voting for her either.

Personally I believe until someone comes along with a degree of GENUINE likeability, honesty and leadership qualities...this country will lurch from bad to worse no matter who is in power blaming everyone else for the state we are in.

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:36 pm

Syl wrote:
sassy wrote:

Sorry Syl, but I can't leave that unchallenged. How can he be saying what the voters want to hear when he has been standing up for the principles he has put forward all his life? And you are never likely to meet a man less like a creep. Even those who oppose him speak of his warmth and humanity (and yes, I have met him). His policies are those pursued in places like Norway, Denmark etc where they are quite normal, they have a higher standard of living and have been voted some if the happiest places in the world to live. Here we are living under real creeps, who want to carry on lining their pockets at our expence (most of them have been linked to off shore account tax avoidance and having shares in companies making money from the privatisation of the NHS) under the biggest creep of all, May, a woman who has the effrontery to go on about her 'Christian values' while persuing policies that have been shown to produce poverty and homelessness for men, women and children and kill off the sick and disabled. In my view, any one who votes for them is responsible for that misery.

I also believe he has turned many lifelong voters away from voting Labour(me included) whilst he is at the helm.

that is so true

there was astonishment by so many hard working people who are broke that he was claiming to be a man of the people and preaching about lifestyle inequality,,,,,,,,at Glastonbury of all places.

the majority of the people he's meant to represent could never afford a sodding ticket to glastonbury.

he's got a well deserved reputation among the genuine working class as a socialist hypocrite. he's far left rather than left and people just dont want that any more than they want far right[/quote]

by nicko Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:53 pm

He supports the IRA, SO FUCK HIM !

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:56 pm

What utter tosh! You ever gone out doorstopping for elections? I have and can tell you for quite some time all we have heard from working class people is 'Thank God we have a really socialist at the top now who believes in what we believe in and has done for over 30 years, it's nice to know he can't be bought or swayed by money or influence'. That's why Labour has more members that all the other parties put together, that's why there was such a huge swing in the election. The 'Tory Lite' Blairites have had their day, real social democratic policies again. As for the 'likeablity factor', have we come so low in politics and swayed by the media so much, that 'likeablity' is even a factor. You think good leaders have to be 'likeable'! The best leaders we have had are probably Churchill (who is my opinion was a disgusting man) and Attlee, who was the most mundane, beige man possible. What we need in politics is someone who sticks to their guns, wants real help and equality for all, not just those who already have far too much, who can't be bought off. He's never claimed for a second house, his expenses are the lowest in the HOC and he has stayed to true to everything as long as he has been there and, apart from Dennis Skinner, I can't think of another MP who can say that..

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:56 pm

nicko wrote:He supports the IRA, SO FUCK HIM !

Fuck you Nicko, he was talking to the IRA to get peace out in the open, while the Tories were doing it behind people's backs.

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:20 pm

sassy wrote:What utter tosh! You ever gone out doorstopping for elections? I have and can tell you for quite some time all we have heard from working class people is 'Thank God we have a really socialist at the top now who believes in what we believe in and has done for over 30 years, it's nice to know he can't be bought or swayed by money or influence'. That's why Labour has more members that all the other parties put together, that's why there was such a huge swing in the election. The 'Tory Lite' Blairites have had their day, real social democratic policies again. As for the 'likeablity factor', have we come so low in politics and swayed by the media so much, that 'likeablity' is even a factor. You think good leaders have to be 'likeable'! The best leaders we have had are probably Churchill (who is my opinion was a disgusting man) and Attlee, who was the most mundane, beige man possible. What we need in politics is someone who sticks to their guns, wants real help and equality for all, not just those who already have far too much, who can't be bought off. He's never claimed for a second house, his expenses are the lowest in the HOC and he has stayed to true to everything as long as he has been there and, apart from Dennis Skinner, I can't think of another MP who can say that..

socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

by Guest Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:37 pm

Capitalism is theft, it takes from the poor to give to the rich. And Labour are Democratic Socialists, which means all the things you agree with, without them ordinary people would have fuck all. As I'm on my phone, can't put on links, but look up the difference between pure socialism and democratic socialism. As it says on my membership card, labour a democratic socialist party. The big thing Corbyn believes in is returning power and influence to ordinary people, which is why he makes sure we get a say in everything. At the moment we have been run by the elite for the elite, to make money for the elite and sod everyone else. I honestly cannot understand why anyone who is not a millionaire would vote for anything else. Voting for any of the other parties is like deliberately punishing yourself and destroying your children's future. masochistic in the extreme.

Ps it wasn't the socialism that killed people, it was the despots that took over the governments and became tyrants.

by 'Wolfie Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:01 pm

gelico wrote:
sassy wrote:What utter tosh! You ever gone out doorstopping for elections? I have and can tell you for quite some time all we have heard from working class people is 'Thank God we have a really socialist at the top now who believes in what we believe in and has done for over 30 years, it's nice to know he can't be bought or swayed by money or influence'. That's why Labour has more members that all the other parties put together, that's why there was such a huge swing in the election. The 'Tory Lite' Blairites have had their day, real social democratic policies again. As for the 'likeablity factor', have we come so low in politics and swayed by the media so much, that 'likeablity' is even a factor. You think good leaders have to be 'likeable'! The best leaders we have had are probably Churchill (who is my opinion was a disgusting man) and Attlee, who was the most mundane, beige man possible. What we need in politics is someone who sticks to their guns, wants real help and equality for all, not just those who already have far too much, who can't be bought off. He's never claimed for a second house, his expenses are the lowest in the HOC and he has stayed to true to everything as long as he has been there and, apart from Dennis Skinner, I can't think of another MP who can say that..

socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

Socialism hasn't "killed" anybody, you stupid brainless twat...

Socialim is an economic system; not a political party, nor a living entity..

Socialism is neither "evil" nor "good", in and of itself..

Economic theories and principles didn't wantonly kill people == it took people to kill people in the name of political idealogies.

Then again, you aren't intelligent enough, let alone either experienced or educated enough, as to know the difference, Gelli-belly racist twat..

Anti-worker, anti-democracy, racist and fascist turds like you are far more "evil" in the long run...

by Andy Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:16 pm

sassy wrote:
nicko wrote:He supports the IRA, SO FUCK HIM !

Fuck you Nicko, he was talking to the IRA to get peace out in the open, while the Tories were doing it behind people's backs.

Nicko reminds me of a Dalek.

Annihilate, kill. Destroy.

by Cass Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:51 pm

gelico wrote:
sassy wrote:What utter tosh! You ever gone out doorstopping for elections? I have and can tell you for quite some time all we have heard from working class people is 'Thank God we have a really socialist at the top now who believes in what we believe in and has done for over 30 years, it's nice to know he can't be bought or swayed by money or influence'. That's why Labour has more members that all the other parties put together, that's why there was such a huge swing in the election. The 'Tory Lite' Blairites have had their day, real social democratic policies again. As for the 'likeablity factor', have we come so low in politics and swayed by the media so much, that 'likeablity' is even a factor. You think good leaders have to be 'likeable'! The best leaders we have had are probably Churchill (who is my opinion was a disgusting man) and Attlee, who was the most mundane, beige man possible. What we need in politics is someone who sticks to their guns, wants real help and equality for all, not just those who already have far too much, who can't be bought off. He's never claimed for a second house, his expenses are the lowest in the HOC and he has stayed to true to everything as long as he has been there and, apart from Dennis Skinner, I can't think of another MP who can say that..

socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

And capitalism is about to kill a heck of a lot more Americans if this tax bill goes through by taking away affordable healthcare from more than 13 million people as well as adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

by Vintage Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:15 pm

Well I don't know who to vote for. I increasingly don't like the Tories, I can't abide Labour, especially with Corbyn the terrorists best buddy, MacDonald the same, Diane Abbott the arrogant racist. The Liberals should be my party but they are as bad as the other two. I would vote for someone who encourages decent capitalism that actually cares for their workers after all its the workers that make the wealth for the owners, and decent paid workers spend more good for the economy but also looks after the basics in life directly - education/health/electricity/gas/water.
I can only dream of such a thing though.

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