NYC Just Freed 640,000 People From Fear That They May Be Arrested For Minor Offenses

Failing to pay a fine for a crime or failing to attend court to face prosecution for a crime, is in itself another crime, and should be pursued as such...

Tommy Monk wrote:Failing to pay a fine for a crime or failing to attend court to face prosecution for a crime, is in itself another crime, and should be pursued as such...

And a complete waste of money and the courts time. Especially when most of those are poor.
What you need to do is end that poverty to then stem those crimes.
You do understand that do you not Tommy?
As how many rich people are in court for not paying parking fines?

Waffle...

They should be prosecuted for some of those things. I saw two boys just chuck paper cups on the ground the other day - I wish there had been a police officer around to make them pick them up or fine them.

Letting a dog run loose can cause accidents, or the dog could attack someone.

I thought rich people could afford to pay their fines?

Raggamuffin wrote:They should be prosecuted for some of those things. I saw two boys just chuck paper cups on the ground the other day - I wish there had been a police officer around to make them pick them up or fine them.

Letting a dog run loose can cause accidents, or the dog could attack someone.

The thing that gets me is smokers who drop their cigarettes on the ground and step on them to crush them out. I wish the meter maids would give them a £1,000/each fine.

Worse than spitting.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:They should be prosecuted for some of those things. I saw two boys just chuck paper cups on the ground the other day - I wish there had been a police officer around to make them pick them up or fine them.

Letting a dog run loose can cause accidents, or the dog could attack someone.

The thing that gets me is smokers who drop their cigarettes on the ground and step on them to crush them out.  I wish the meter maids would give them a £1,000/each fine.

Worse than spitting.  

I agree. They should get a portable ash tray and use that. Sometimes they don't even bother to step on them to put them out! Spitting should be punished by a massive fine.

Spitting is repulsive, I gag when I see phlegm on the pavement.
Yet in China it isn't frowned on, in fact they think we are odd if we spit in a hankie and put it back in a pocket contaminating keys and wallets etc..

Spitting?
Its nothing more than an arbitrary stance that its wrong.
Yet we spit and blow our noses into the same tissues over and over again. How hygienic.

The we have litter, indeed this is just laziness from people, but are the latter two really criminal offenses or being nothing more than part of a nanny state?

Is it really worth spending countless Police hours on such crimes or going through the courts?

The simple answer is no. All that is needed is to make the people clean it up. So the simple answer is introduce areas people can spit their phlegm into. Ensure that when people litter that they are made to pick it up. The reality is too many people are taken to court off the most mundane crimes.

Take a leaf out of Denmark and ask why they are having to close prisons, due to there now being less prisoners. Where they also have less crimes.

If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

A group of us would ride the ferry home from SF after work

One lady was a smoker. Between the ferry and the feeder bus, was a walk of 5-8 minutes and she would light up. Then just before the bus she would flip the cigarette somewhere--anywhere--and mount the bus. Another lady would follow her and chase down the cigarette and dispose of it properly.

Either the second lady was a fanatic at litter, or she was an expert at shaming. She did both.

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

So they should cut down on Policing such irrelevant crimes. Its simple pointless.

Why is it down to just men?

The best way for people to learn about cleaning up rubbish is having a hundred fold rubbish placed in their house as a punishment and a fine.

If this happened, people would soon learn to stop littering. As it would cost them a fortune and become a nightmare cleaning up.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

A group of us would ride the ferry home from SF after work

One lady was a smoker.  Between the ferry and the feeder bus, was a walk of 5-8 minutes and she would light up.  Then just before the bus she would flip the cigarette somewhere--anywhere--and mount the bus.  Another lady would follow her and chase down the cigarette and dispose of it properly.

Either the second lady was a fanatic at litter, or she was an expert at shaming.  She did both.

I sort of admire people like that.
I know someone who if they are walking along and they see someone chuck something out of a stationary car window, they pick it up, knock on the window and pleasantly say "I think you just dropped this"...the person in the car usually holds out their hand and accepts it, often thanking him.

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

The trouble is that they've quite often gone by the time you get a chance to say anything. The boys I saw dropping cups were several yards away, and I was having a coffee at the time, so I wasn't going to chase after them really.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

The trouble is that they've quite often gone by the time you get a chance to say anything. The boys I saw dropping cups were several yards away, and I was having a coffee at the time, so I wasn't going to chase after them really.

Yes, you're right. The trick is to take advantage of the timing when it happens. It's a shame when you aren't there, but catch it when you can.

It's like a joke...the timing is crucial.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:If people were made to clean up their own rubbish there would be less people fouling the streets with their own and their dogs rubbish and crap.

Unfortunately councils and police are cutting down drastically on law enforcing, so unless more ordinary man in the street people are prepared to actually call others out when they see this sort of thing being done, everyone gets away with it.

The trouble is that they've quite often gone by the time you get a chance to say anything. The boys I saw dropping cups were several yards away, and I was having a coffee at the time, so I wasn't going to chase after them really.

Cups being dropped?

The horror?

I guess this is nothing more than the class system we adopted from the Normans, that is still in existence today.
We have still very much social divisions today that originated from the Normans

I do know someone who got fined for dropping a fag end on the floor.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The trouble is that they've quite often gone by the time you get a chance to say anything. The boys I saw dropping cups were several yards away, and I was having a coffee at the time, so I wasn't going to chase after them really.

Cups being dropped?

The horror?

I guess this is nothing more than the class system we adopted from the Normans, that is still in existence today.
We have still very much social divisions today that originated from the Normans

Yes, takeaway cups. Do you approve of littering Didgey? Who do you think has to pick those cups up?

Raggamuffin wrote:I do know someone who got fined for dropping a fag end on the floor.

Good.  That infuriates me.  People--especially smokers--take it for granted that cigarettes on the floor is the norm.  

How is that any different from peeing in the corner, which the French aristocrats used to do in halls of châteaus and palaces?  It's really disgusting.  

(But that's me getting all pc again.)

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Cups being dropped?

The horror?

I guess this is nothing more than the class system we adopted from the Normans, that is still in existence today.
We have still very much social divisions today that originated from the Normans

Yes, takeaway cups. Do you approve of littering Didgey? Who do you think has to pick those cups up?

They should pick them up.
Do I think they should face criminal charges?

No

Hence the reason they litter is they were brought up on something that was brought to this country. A snobbish class system that was born from the Normans. Where some higher up constantly look down on others and have little respect. This is instilled into some of our society and why they have little respect for the environment and other people.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, takeaway cups. Do you approve of littering Didgey? Who do you think has to pick those cups up?

They should pick them up.
Do I think they should face criminal charges?

No

Hence the reason they litter is they were brought up on something that was brought to this country. A snobbish class system that was born from the Normans. Where some higher up constantly look down on others and have little respect. This is instilled into some of our society and why they have little respect for the environment and other people.

Well they don't pick them up obviously, so they should be fined. I don't think too much should be read into it - they're just nasty, lazy, slobs.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:

They should pick them up.
Do I think they should face criminal charges?

No

Hence the reason they litter is they were brought up on something that was brought to this country. A snobbish class system that was born from the Normans. Where some higher up constantly look down on others and have little respect. This is instilled into some of our society and why they have little respect for the environment and other people.

Well they don't pick them up obviously, so they should be fined. I don't think too much should be read into it - they're just nasty, lazy, slobs.

Oh its very much based on how they are brought up Rags.

As do you litter?

I don't think littering, letting your dog foul, spitting or generally being a sloth has anything to do with the class system.
Some people have consideration and manners...and others don't, its that simple really.

Syl wrote:I don't think littering, letting your dog foul, spitting or generally being a sloth  has anything to do with the class system.
Some people have consideration and manners...and others don't, its that simple really.

It has everything to do with a class system or cultures Syl, when taught.

For example in some cultures they sneeze their snot out of their noses onto the ground, instead of into a tissue.
Where do you think such ideals come from?
They are learnt and where people are taught to believe they are above others and do not care. Then it creates an even bigger circle of less caring. AS those treated poorly, then they themselves look down on others. Its how envy and negativity will always create people littering or simple not caring. As that caring was already split into a system of class. With those on the top and those on the bottom.

So they should be fined big time for littering - if they're caught.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't think littering, letting your dog foul, spitting or generally being a sloth  has anything to do with the class system.
Some people have consideration and manners...and others don't, its that simple really.

It has everything to do with a class system or cultures Syl, when taught.

For example in some cultures they sneeze their snot out of their noses onto the ground, instead of into a tissue.
Where do you think such ideals come from?
They are learnt and where people are taught to believe they are above others and do not care. Then it creates an even bigger circle of less caring. AS those treated poorly, then they themselves look down on others. Its how envy and negativity will always create people littering or simple not caring. As that caring was already split into a system of class. With those on the top and those on the bottom.

Culture has some bearing, I said before the Chinese people think we are odd for spitting stuff in hankies, they spit out on the street, though they are supposed to use the public spittoons rather than the pavements.

In the UK the class system has little to do with manners nowadays.
If you are taught them when young they will stay with you throughout life, but having money or entitlement doesn't always make for good parenting or good manners.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

It has everything to do with a class system or cultures Syl, when taught.

For example in some cultures they sneeze their snot out of their noses onto the ground, instead of into a tissue.
Where do you think such ideals come from?
They are learnt and where people are taught to believe they are above others and do not care. Then it creates an even bigger circle of less caring. AS those treated poorly, then they themselves look down on others. Its how envy and negativity will always create people littering or simple not caring. As that caring was already split into a system of class. With those on the top and those on the bottom.

Culture has some bearing, I said before the Chinese people think we are odd for spitting stuff in hankies, they spit out on the street, though they are supposed to use the public spittoons rather than the pavements.

In the UK the class system has little  to do with manners nowadays.
If you are taught them when young they will stay with you throughout life, but  having money or entitlement doesn't always make for good parenting or good manners.

It has everything to do with how and what we call manners today Syl. As its based on what those in the upper echelons of society have made the standard over with. So no matter how good a parent. If its born off teaching a rigid social standard you perceive. Then you are then nothing more than a slave to that system.

So if someone litters, the punishment should be that then 100 people then are allowed into that persons home and then litter their room or house. The way to teach someone is make them feel the effects of what they have done a hundred times worse. They will soon learn, but the reality is we still live in a society where people constantly look down on others over something so arbitrary as manners.

To me its simple...you are either taught good manners when you are a child, which tends to stay with you throughout life....or you are not.

Class has imo nothing to do with it in this modern day and age....a working class family can have far superior morals and teachings than an upper class family...and that is where it begins.

Obviously some people are slobs no matter how they are brought up, once again that has nothing to do with class or entitlement.

Syl wrote:To me its simple...you are either taught good manners when you are a child, which tends to stay with you throughout life....or you are not.

Class has imo nothing to do with it in this modern day and age....a working class family can have far superior morals and teachings than an upper class family...and that is where it begins.

Obviously some people are slobs no matter how they are brought up, once again that has nothing to do with class or entitlement.

But there you are, as what is good manners?

Nothing more than a standard set to you by the upper echelons of society

So class has everything to do with this when you base a standard on manners. When it is very subjective and yet very much based on what the elite of society has stated it should be.

For example we greet people by shaking hands, why?

As its become the social norm instilled to do so by those of upper society

So manners is nothing more than what is set by that society. In some cases manners is based on an eye for an eye.
Hence its very much based on a social, cultural and sometimes religious construct. Based on absolute morals.

Standards on manners should be based on one rule only. Whether you would like this done onto you.

It's not just bad manners to drop litter, it's also against the law, so if someone is brought up to think it's OK, they need to be told they're breaking the law.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's not just bad manners to drop litter, it's also against the law, so if someone is brought up to think it's OK, they need to be told they're breaking the law.

Laws are again subjective and change with time

You piss and shit into a toilet without no thought how all of us end up further littering the country and river systems. I mean if you want to really think about this Rags, you would never have a crap in your toilet , as you litter the country with your crap. The reality is we have laws that allow us to crap into a system litters in a way far worse, but yet you have come to accept that human bodily litter is fine.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's not just bad manners to drop litter, it's also against the law, so if someone is brought up to think it's OK, they need to be told they're breaking the law.

Laws are again subjective and change with time

You piss and shit into a toilet without no thought how all of us end up further littering the country and river systems. I mean if you want to really think about this Rags, you would never have a crap in your toilet , as you litter the country with your crap. The reality is we have laws that allow us to crap into a system litters in a way far worse, but yet you have come to accept that human bodily litter is fine.

Well the law hasn't changed - it's against the law to drop litter. You seem to be defending people who drop litter Didge. Why is that?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Laws are again subjective and change with time

You piss and shit into a toilet without no thought how all of us end up further littering the country and river systems. I mean if you want to really think about this Rags, you would never have a crap in your toilet , as you litter the country with your crap. The reality is we have laws that allow us to crap into a system litters in a way far worse, but yet you have come to accept that human bodily litter is fine.

Well the law hasn't changed - it's against the law to drop litter. You seem to be defending people who drop litter Didge. Why is that?

I have not defended anything Rags

I am showing how poor an argument and disdain is formed on litter, when all of human nature does this daily. Without a care or consequence. 

So show me where I defended litter dropping?

I only stated that as seen in the article many things should not be criminal and only taught to act against wrongs by doing them ten fold worse.

Hence caught pissing in the street, ten people piss on your bed.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well the law hasn't changed - it's against the law to drop litter. You seem to be defending people who drop litter Didge. Why is that?

I have not defended anything Rags

I am showing how poor an argument and disdain is formed on litter, when all of human nature does this daily. Without a care or consequence. 

So show me where I defended litter dropping?

I only stated that as seen in the article many things should not be criminal and only taught to act against wrongs by doing them ten fold worse.

Hence caught pissing in the street, ten people piss on your bed.

So you're introducing several red herrings instead of sticking to the point. Now I know to ignore any further posts from you in this thread.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I have not defended anything Rags

I am showing how poor an argument and disdain is formed on litter, when all of human nature does this daily. Without a care or consequence. 

So show me where I defended litter dropping?

I only stated that as seen in the article many things should not be criminal and only taught to act against wrongs by doing them ten fold worse.

Hence caught pissing in the street, ten people piss on your bed.

So you're introducing several red herrings instead of sticking to the point. Now I know to ignore any further posts from you in this thread.

WTF



How to prove my point people cannot take on board other views and then invoke bullshit and then have as you have had, a temper tantrum. 

This was a good discussion until you had no answer and instead decided to throw your dummy out

Oh my goodness, please ignore me if that makes you feel socially higher than me proving my point.

Failing to pay a fine or turn up at court is often viewed as a more serious offence than whatever the fine/court summons may originally have been for... it is seen as sticking 2 fingers up to the rule of law!


Letting those off who dont pay or dont turn up at court is not fair on those who do!


Maybe the authorities should be able to set up deductions straight from wages/benefits, a few $ a week until fully paid...?

Tommy Monk wrote:Failing to pay a fine or turn up at court is often viewed as a more serious offence than whatever the fine/court summons may originally have been for... it is seen as sticking 2 fingers up to the rule of law!


Letting those off who dont pay or dont turn up at court is not fair on those who do!


Maybe the authorities should be able to set up deductions straight from wages/benefits, a few $ a week until fully paid...?

Exactly Tommy. If they've been caught out, they should pay up. Letting them off for ignoring a fine is just giving out the wrong message.

Tommy Monk wrote:Failing to pay a fine or turn up at court is often viewed as a more serious offence than whatever the fine/court summons may originally have been for... it is seen as sticking 2 fingers up to the rule of law!


Letting those off who dont pay or dont turn up at court is not fair on those who do!


Maybe the authorities should be able to set up deductions straight from wages/benefits, a few $ a week until fully paid...?

So you want to waste even more money over irrelevant acts that are classed as crimes.

Wasting more police time, court time, when we have a high risk of terrorism

Should it be a case that many of these crimes should not be crimes?

So why is Denmark closing prisons Tommy?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Failing to pay a fine or turn up at court is often viewed as a more serious offence than whatever the fine/court summons may originally have been for... it is seen as sticking 2 fingers up to the rule of law!


Letting those off who dont pay or dont turn up at court is not fair on those who do!


Maybe the authorities should be able to set up deductions straight from wages/benefits, a few $ a week until fully paid...?

Exactly Tommy. If they've been caught out, they should pay up. Letting them off for ignoring a fine is just giving out the wrong message.

How does someone homeless pay up?

In soup tins?

The problem with you and tommy is you never look at how people turn to crimes.

If this was the 17th and 18th century you would both be calling for children to be hanged for stealing bread.

As that was the social norm then

To help lower crime means helping eradicate poverty and empowering women to have control over their own reproduction systems.

Night all

Yeah, because hanging someone is the same as fining someone.

Even homeless people can find a bin. In fact, they probably know where the bins are better than anyone.

Raggamuffin wrote:Yeah, because hanging someone is the same as fining someone.

I agree they are not the same, but once they were equivalent the punishments

Some acts should not be crimes, what should be done is to do as i say with minor crimes

If you litter, then your home is filled with ten fold of opened up garbage bags, until they learn

Night Rags

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Yeah, because hanging someone is the same as fining someone.

I agree they are not the same, but once they were equivalent the punishments

Some acts should not be crimes, what should be done is to do as i say with minor crimes

If you litter, then your home is filled with ten fold of opened up garbage bags, until they learn

Night Rags

Try to stay in the present Didge and stick to the subject of littering.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I agree they are not the same, but once they were equivalent the punishments

Some acts should not be crimes, what should be done is to do as i say with minor crimes

If you litter, then your home is filled with ten fold of opened up garbage bags, until they learn

Night Rags

Try to stay in the present Didge and stick to the subject of littering.

I agree in that it should not be criminalized and only approached as I recommended

As its a complete waste of time for the Police and courts

So how about you actually read and understand what is stated Rags?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Try to stay in the present Didge and stick to the subject of littering.

I agree in that it should not be criminalized and only approached as I recommended

As its a complete waste of time for the Police and courts

So how about you actually read and understand what is stated Rags?

How about you actually stick to the topic and stop introducing red herrings? Of course dropping litter should be a criminal offence, and it is in this country at least.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I agree in that it should not be criminalized and only approached as I recommended

As its a complete waste of time for the Police and courts

So how about you actually read and understand what is stated Rags?

How about you actually stick to the topic and stop introducing red herrings? Of course dropping litter should be a criminal offence, and it is in this country at least.

How about you answer my points and stop giving me piss poor excuses not to answer?

So you should be arrested everytime you have a sneeze then?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

How about you actually stick to the topic and stop introducing red herrings? Of course dropping litter should be a criminal offence, and it is in this country at least.

How about you answer my points and stop giving me piss poor excuses not to answer?

So you should be arrested everytime you have a sneeze then?

Your points are shite. I've said what I think, and if you don't like my opinion you can just go and swivel.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


How about you answer my points and stop giving me piss poor excuses not to answer?

So you should be arrested everytime you have a sneeze then?

Your points are shite. I've said what I think, and if you don't like my opinion you can just go and swivel.

So you claim they are shite without every reasoning why

Priceless

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Your points are shite. I've said what I think, and if you don't like my opinion you can just go and swivel.

So you claim they are shite without every reasoning why

Priceless

I don't need to - shite is shite.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


So you claim they are shite without every reasoning why

Priceless

I don't need to - shite is shite.

I suggest you look at what you wipe then from your arse to find out