Brexit vote - Parliament votes overwhelmingly in favour of triggering article 50

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

MPs vote to trigger Article 50 by 498 to 114
SNP amendment rejected
Two Labour shadow cabinet ministers resign, more expected
Nine Labour frontbench MPs defy Jeremy Corbyn
The road to Britain's exit from the EU
Sketch: Is George Osborne over Brexit? Not quite yet ...
Boris Johnson said that “history has been made” after MPs voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday night in favour of triggering Brexit negotiations and beginning the process of leaving the EU.

The Foreign Secretary called it a “momentous” night as MPs voted four to one in favour of triggering Article 50. Kenneth Clarke, a former chancellor, was the only Tory MP to oppose it.

I’ve just voted three times in the House of Commons for an absolutely momentous thing – to give our Prime Minister the right to trigger Article 50 and Britain to begin the path out of the EU
Boris Johnson
Theresa May, the Prime Minister, will today publish a White Paper formally setting out the Government’s plans for Brexit in response to the concerns of pro-European Tory MPs.

However, there were further signs of division among the Conservatives as George Osborne, the former chancellor, accused Mrs May of putting Brexit ahead of the economy and warned he will join the “fight” over Britain’s future outside the EU.

Wednesday’s vote means the Government’s Brexit legislation has cleared its first hurdle and Mrs May is on course to trigger the process by her March deadline. There had been 14 and a half hours of debate and bitter clashes in Parliament over two days as nearly 100 MPs expressed their views about Brexit.

MPs finally voted in favour of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill by 498 votes to 114, with 47 Labour MPs, 50 SNP MPs and seven Liberal Democrats voting against.

It leaves Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, facing his third reshuffle in 18 months after 12 serving frontbenchers voted against it. Four members of his front bench team have already quit.

Mr Johnson said: “I’ve just voted three times in the House of Commons for an absolutely momentous thing – to give our Prime Minister the right to trigger Article 50 and Britain to begin the path out of the EU. Don’t forget we may be leaving the EU treaties but we are not leaving Europe.

“We are going to be making an amazingly positive contribution to our continent as we always have done and always will. But we are now able to forge a new identity with new free trade deals as global Britain.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/01/theresa-may-eu-bill-brexit-pmqs-live2/

Laughing

by Ben Reilly Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:52 pm

Eilzel wrote:Was anybody expecting a different result?

The only surprise was how much bitching came from the Brexiteers at the thought of letting the BRITISH judges and BRITISH parliament 'do their jobs'.

Brexiteers- pathetic even in victory...

The Brexiteers -- the people who taught Trump the trick of claiming a vote was rigged before it was even taken Rolling Eyes

by Fred Moletrousers Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:

1) Misdirection and nothing to do with the debate. Stick to the points of the debate, as I never claimed I am not biased. What is relevant is as I stated whether something ticks the boxes of democratic values. On this you were disingenuous, because the EU does meet the criteria of being democratic. I will put that down to bias, more than deliberate on your part.

2) So you have no evidence. You expect people to go off your good reputation as a poster.
I find that poor to say the least, when you cannot offer up anything to substantiate your claim.
You then further deflect attacking me pathetically, which proves even further to the weakness of your claim.
Its simple, say that your views are hearsay and that you have no evidence to back them.

This is what you always do when I expose poor arguments from you

Stick to the points of the debate, its not a dick measuring competition, no matter how much you seem to think it is. I use links as evidence and as seen also argue my views.
You have used nothing in support of your claims, and expect people to take this on the value of your character.

The eu is democratic...!!!???

Tell us when the British people voted for/gave consent to the establishment of the EU...?

Precisely. The only democratic vote previously offered back in the 70s was whether we should be part of a European economic community, or trading bloc...not a political entity with its declared ultimate goal of "ever closer union" with its own form of federal governance including foreign policy and defence.

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:14 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The eu is democratic...!!!???

Tell us when the British people voted for/gave consent to the establishment of the EU...?

Precisely. The only democratic vote previously offered back in the 70s was whether we should be part of a European economic community, or trading bloc...not a political entity with its declared ultimate goal of "ever closer union" with its own form of federal governance including foreign policy and defence.

Does that mean the EU system is not democratic?

No

There are many things you have never been asked to Democratically vote on.

Did you get to Vote on the creation of the NHS?

At the time the medical establishment was very anti such a move.

Again you and Tommy, sound like two whingers over not getting your way, when you now have your way.
I do hope you realise you and Tommy will be held to account mind if leaving goes tits up?

by Fred Moletrousers Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:38 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Precisely. The only democratic vote previously offered back in the 70s was whether we should be part of a European economic community, or trading bloc...not a political entity with its declared ultimate goal of "ever closer union" with its own form of federal governance including foreign policy and defence.

Does that mean the EU system is not democratic?

No

There are many things you have never been asked to Democratically vote on.

Did you get to Vote on the creation of the NHS?

At the time the medical establishment was very anti such a move.

Again you and Tommy, sound like two whingers over not getting your way, when you now have your way.
I do hope you realise you and Tommy will be held to account mind if leaving goes tits up?

For God's sake if you are going to come up with "examples" to try to back up your case after having to be taught that the European Court of Human Rights is not a European Union institution, do try at least to make them relevant.

I didn't "vote on the creation of the NHS" for the simple reason that I was only six years old at the time! The nation did, however, vote for the creation of the NHS when they elected Clement Attlee's Labour Government in 1945. It was an electoral commitment. So what?

And anyway, what has the historic anti-health service bolshiness of the British Medical Association got to do with the present discussion?

The only time we have been asked, over the past four decades, to express our views on the way the EU is moving towards "ever closer union" was last year when we were asked whether we wanted to remain part of it. Quite why you think that Tommy and I should be "whingeing" when we were quite patently on the winning side of the referendum, heaven only knows. Your idea of logic sometimes escapes me.

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:47 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Does that mean the EU system is not democratic?

No

There are many things you have never been asked to Democratically vote on.

Did you get to Vote on the creation of the NHS?

At the time the medical establishment was very anti such a move.

Again you and Tommy, sound like two whingers over not getting your way, when you now have your way.
I do hope you realise you and Tommy will be held to account mind if leaving goes tits up?

For God's sake if you are going to come up with "examples" to try to back up your case after having to be taught that the European Court of Human Rights is not a European Union institution, do try at least to make them relevant.

I didn't "vote on the creation of the NHS" for the simple reason that I was only six years old at the time! The nation did, however, vote for the creation of the NHS when they elected Clement Attlee's Labour Government in 1945. It was an electoral commitment. So what?

And anyway, what has the historic anti-health service bolshiness of the British Medical Association got to do with the present discussion?

The only time we have been asked, over the past four decades, to express our views on the way the EU is moving towards "ever closer union" was last year when we were asked whether we wanted to remain part of it. Quite why you think that Tommy and I should be "whingeing" when we were quite patently on the winning side of the referendum, heaven only knows. Your idea of logic sometimes escapes me.

So you did not vote on it, thus proving the point you do not get to vote on many things, especially that go into law and yet bemoan a system that legislates law.

It has everything to do with your poor argument against the EU, when you use poor language claiming it is authoritarian, which is nothing short of absurd.

Considering the UK has only opposed 2% of EU legislation, shows its in harmony with the majority of the laws and legislation.

Which brings me back to the point, why should I be concerned who decides the legislation, as long as its the right legislation that is fair to all within societies?

by Fred Moletrousers Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

For God's sake if you are going to come up with "examples" to try to back up your case after having to be taught that the European Court of Human Rights is not a European Union institution, do try at least to make them relevant.

I didn't "vote on the creation of the NHS" for the simple reason that I was only six years old at the time! The nation did, however, vote for the creation of the NHS when they elected Clement Attlee's Labour Government in 1945. It was an electoral commitment. So what?

And anyway, what has the historic anti-health service bolshiness of the British Medical Association got to do with the present discussion?

The only time we have been asked, over the past four decades, to express our views on the way the EU is moving towards "ever closer union" was last year when we were asked whether we wanted to remain part of it. Quite why you think that Tommy and I should be "whingeing" when we were quite patently on the winning side of the referendum, heaven only knows. Your idea of logic sometimes escapes me.

So you did not vote on it, thus proving the point you do not get to vote on many things, especially that go into law and yet bemoan a system that legislates law.

It has everything to do with your poor argument against the EU, when you use poor language claiming it is authoritarian, which is nothing short of absurd.

Considering the UK has only opposed 2% of EU legislation, shows its in harmony with the majority of the laws and legislation.

Which brings me back to the point, why should I be concerned who decides the legislation, as long as its the right legislation that is fair to all within societies?

May I suggest that you come back when six year old children are given the vote...and state your case again. It might make more sense then.

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:54 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So you did not vote on it, thus proving the point you do not get to vote on many things, especially that go into law and yet bemoan a system that legislates law.

It has everything to do with your poor argument against the EU, when you use poor language claiming it is authoritarian, which is nothing short of absurd.

Considering the UK has only opposed 2% of EU legislation, shows its in harmony with the majority of the laws and legislation.

Which brings me back to the point, why should I be concerned who decides the legislation, as long as its the right legislation that is fair to all within societies?

May I suggest that you come back when six year old children are given the vote...and state your case again. It might make more sense then.

ad hominem

I suggest you stick to the points of the debate and stop deflecting with childish immature poor comments

Thanks

by Tommy Monk Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:55 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

https://youtu.be/v4gBZ3MYLUc

The link works dodge...!

Who is dodge

All I see is this when I press play

A childish cry baby labour mep, denying the truth and behaving like a complete twat!!!

Maybe you can tell us which parts of what Farage was saying were lies...!?

Laughing

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:08 pm

Thorin wrote:

I gave you lies Tommy

Here is some more

Razz

See you later Tommy and have a good evening watching these

by Tommy Monk Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:52 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

https://youtu.be/v4gBZ3MYLUc

The link works dodge...!

Who is dodge

All I see is this when I press play

A childish cry baby labour mep, denying the truth and behaving like a complete twat!!!

Maybe you can tell us which parts of what Farage was saying were lies...!?

Laughing

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:53 pm

Thorin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

I gave you lies Tommy

Here is some more

See you later Tommy and have a good evening watching these

by Tommy Monk Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Had a look... nothing to see...

by Guest Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:09 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I agree there the young people are not used to hearing the word 'NO' this is a good lesson for them to learn that in life you win some you lose some , they lost and boy don't we known it lol.

Open door immigration was the biggest mistake and we're paying for that - hopefully that will change when our borders are fully controlled by us .

Don't worry, if/when it all goes tits up then our generations will never forget how your lots fucked us over forever due to your short sighted nationalist inclinations.

Don't you live in a different country now ?

by Victorismyhero Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:41 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I agree. The people of this country have been through tough times before, and we'll weather it again if it comes. The problem with most younger people is they can't remember a time they didn't have all the home comforts, a disposable society and an easy life.

They only know a time when our democracy had been stolen and we were subject to eu dictatorship and a completely barmy open door immigration system...

I agree there the young people are not used to hearing the word 'NO' this is a good lesson for them to learn that in life you win some you lose some , they lost and boy don't we known it lol.

Open door immigration was the biggest mistake and we're paying for that - hopefully that will change when our borders are fully controlled by us .

Don't worry, if/when it all goes tits up then our generations will never forget how your lots fucked us over forever due to your short sighted nationalist inclinations.

may I engage your attention just a bit here Eil....

given that (for whatever reason ...I blame the lefty Razz

) we already have the situation whereby a founding principle of the law of the land has been surrendered for the sake of "multiculturalism") That being the singular principle of one law to apply to every man in the land.....we now have at least two areas (more if you count the exceptions (wrongly) granted to those of jewish faith..vis sharia banking law and sharia will law... that are seperate and inaddition to the law of the land.

whilst the "slippery slope" argument is filled with pit falls...how long untill other more serious law is involved...say criminal law....after all the foundation principle of "one law" has been breached, therfore it can (and likely will at some point be breached again) so there is no REAL impediment to this happening. All in the name of equality mind you ....

what then of the "native" breaching some mysterious sharia law ?

will the hapless englishman in a predominantly Muslim ghetto, be prosecuted by "religious police" and tried in a sharia court for eating egg and bacon for breakfast....?

how does the non Muslim plaintiff in a contested will fare with a sharia will...?? (answer is he doesnt ..tough luck)

(bear in mind the disinherited english relation has the right to contest such a will under british law as a matter of course......

so...equally as per your comment....

will those who object to insane levels and carelessness in immigration and the rest be at liberty to "never forget" how YOU "fucked things over" if (when) it all goes "tits up"?

Indeed can an argument not be made that IF you wish to go down that road...should not all those in favour of mass free unrestricted and uncontrolled immigration be held "party to" any terrorist" action that is shown to be due (either directly OR by prioxy) due to the presence of said terrorists via immigration??

maybe IF the "idle youth"...of which there are far too many (granted not all, many youngsters ARE good solid citizens) would get off their ass and work, rather than taking the attitude "i'm not getting out of bed for minimum wages..we wont NEED so many immigrants....(and you know I think minimum wage is a disgrace ...and what i'd do about it....) oh and BTW...not to "rub salt in the wound"...but.....If the "idle youth" had bothered to get of its collective drunk/stoned idle ass and GO AND VOTE....we may have after all ...remained....

perhaps...if it does all go tits you ...you may be blaming the wrong people...look closer to home....

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:18 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I agree there the young people are not used to hearing the word 'NO' this is a good lesson for them to learn that in life you win some you lose some , they lost and boy don't we known it lol.

Open door immigration was the biggest mistake and we're paying for that - hopefully that will change when our borders are fully controlled by us .

Don't worry, if/when it all goes tits up then our generations will never forget how your lots fucked us over forever due to your short sighted nationalist inclinations.

Don't you live in a different country now ?

Irrelevant. UK law still affects me AND my family and my possible future children.

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:28 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I agree. The people of this country have been through tough times before, and we'll weather it again if it comes. The problem with most younger people is they can't remember a time they didn't have all the home comforts, a disposable society and an easy life.

They only know a time when our democracy had been stolen and we were subject to eu dictatorship and a completely barmy open door immigration system...

I agree there the young people are not used to hearing the word 'NO' this is a good lesson for them to learn that in life you win some you lose some , they lost and boy don't we known it lol.

Open door immigration was the biggest mistake and we're paying for that - hopefully that will change when our borders are fully controlled by us .

Don't worry, if/when it all goes tits up then our generations will never forget how your lots fucked us over forever due to your short sighted nationalist inclinations.

may I engage your attention just a bit here Eil....

given that (for whatever reason ...I blame the lefty ) we already have the situation whereby a founding principle of the law of the land has been surrendered for the sake of "multiculturalism") That being the singular principle of one law to apply to every man in the land.....we now have at least two areas (more if you count the exceptions (wrongly) granted to those of jewish faith..vis sharia banking law and sharia will law... that are seperate and inaddition to the law of the land.

whilst the "slippery slope" argument is filled with pit falls...how long untill other more serious law is involved...say criminal law....after all the foundation principle of "one law" has been breached, therfore it can (and likely will at some point be breached again) so there is no REAL impediment to this happening. All in the name of equality mind you ....

what then of the "native" breaching some mysterious sharia law ?

will the hapless englishman in a predominantly Muslim ghetto, be prosecuted by "religious police" and tried in a sharia court for eating egg and bacon for breakfast....?

how does the non Muslim plaintiff in a contested will fare with a sharia will...?? (answer is he doesnt ..tough luck)

(bear in mind the disinherited english relation has the right to contest such a will under british law as a matter of course......

so...equally as per your comment....

will those who object to insane levels and carelessness in immigration and the rest be at liberty to "never forget" how YOU "fucked things over" if (when) it all goes "tits up"?

Indeed can an argument not be made that IF you wish to go down that road...should not all those in favour of mass free unrestricted and uncontrolled immigration be held "party to" any terrorist" action that is shown to be due (either directly OR by prioxy) due to the presence of said terrorists via immigration??

maybe IF the "idle youth"...of which there are far too many (granted not all, many youngsters ARE good solid citizens) would get off their ass and work, rather than taking the attitude "i'm not getting out of bed for minimum wages..we wont NEED so many immigrants....(and you know I think minimum wage is a disgrace ...and what i'd do about it....) oh and BTW...not to "rub salt in the wound"...but.....If the "idle youth" had bothered to get of its collective drunk/stoned idle ass and GO AND VOTE....we may have after all ...remained....

perhaps...if it does all go tits you ...you may be blaming the wrong people...look closer to home....

Well Vic, IF the whole mishandling of immigration did cause the things you suggest then the blame there would equally lie with same generation as just dragged us out of the EU- just not the exact same people.

However, your speculation there still stand IN or OUT of the EU. It is strange how the people seemiy most angry with our politicians over the EU still trust those SAME politicians with out nation's fate outside the EU- even as the May government constantly reminds us how woefully incompetent it is.

Do you think those concerns about Muslim ghettos will vanish now? Do you really think that the EU was completely responsible for ALL those perceived problems in the first place?

As for the youth of our nation, I am still pissed tbh that I believe of 25% of under 25s actually voted in the referendum. Especially when the perpetually negative over 50s vote in such numbers. And those youngsters have only themselves to blame. But the outward, forward looking few have been done over by this vote. And it will be remembered.

by Victorismyhero Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:58 am

Just as long as its remembered that itwas the failure of your generation to motivate itself that allowed this to happen...and NOT the fact that the older generation failed to act in a way your generation would have liked...

remember this...us "oldies" can remember a world before the EU..and it worked quite well thank you...despite the minor inconvenience of needing passports and visas...

oh and lets not forget actually needing a job to move TO if you wanted to work abroad....

no rocking up on the border with a "let me in and gimme a job or your dole...I got rights I has" nonsense

by Victorismyhero Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:01 am

then of couse you have the little fact that when we voted "in" it was hey folks its great ...its just a trading union honest....

No-one mentioned being ruled by an unelected despotic European commission.... the pride and joy of Herr Junker.

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:48 am

Lord Foul wrote:Just as long as its remembered that itwas the failure of your generation to motivate itself that allowed this to happen...and NOT the fact that the older generation failed to act in a way your generation would have liked...

remember this...us "oldies" can remember a world before the EU..and it worked quite well thank you...despite the minor inconvenience of needing passports and visas...

oh and lets not forget actually needing a job to move TO if you wanted to work abroad....

no rocking up on the border with a "let me in and gimme a job or your dole...I got rights I has" nonsense

To be fair, while I agree a lot of younger people are just lazy (not all, or even most), a lot are also just massively sick of politics in general. Sick of the pointlessness due to FPTP voting, sick of tribalism, sick of 'my father voted for this party so I do to', sick of the lies, sick of cartoon character nationalists and so on. That is entirely the cause of the generations that took us both in and now out of the EU.

by Victorismyhero Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:01 am

I can well understand that but crawling under the cuddly blanket that the EU pretends to be is about as effective a cure for what ails as hiding behind the hippo in the vain hope that the crocs will take a long time to eat him, before they see you....
The EU wqs never going to change/improve OR stop meddling in things which rightly it didnt need or aught to....
lets face it...although most were eventually chucked out , there must be an entire divison of men dedicated to inventing stupid/unnecessary and pointless regulations. what with straight bananas, and the rest of it...fgs who needs it. the department of idiotic rules...

by veya_victaous Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:33 am

for the EU to aim to be anything less than the United States is pointless. Rolling Eyes

I know you lot don't like to hear it but its true
with out the EU, Europe is obsolete, all it's power will dwindle
It only through banding together that you have enough economic power to remain 'one that makes decisions'.

No Australia is not, so don't pretend that is what I am saying. but we are at least moving in the right direction.

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:41 am

Eilzel wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Just as long as its remembered that itwas the failure of your generation to motivate itself that allowed this to happen...and NOT the fact that the older generation failed to act in a way your generation would have liked...

remember this...us "oldies" can remember a world before the EU..and it worked quite well thank you...despite the minor inconvenience of needing passports and visas...

oh and lets not forget actually needing a job to move TO if you wanted to work abroad....

no rocking up on the border with a "let me in and gimme a job or your dole...I got rights I has" nonsense

To be fair, while I agree a lot of younger people are just lazy (not all, or even most), a lot are also just massively sick of politics in general. Sick of the pointlessness due to FPTP voting, sick of tribalism, sick of 'my father voted for this party so I do to', sick of the lies, sick of cartoon character nationalists and so on. That is entirely the cause of the generations that took us both in and now out of the EU.

If you think you're tired of it now, wait 11 years and tell me how tired you feel then pale

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:05 am

I'm tired of it, Ben, but I also enjoy it too. Whilst I see the problems faced by our nations now, and cannot comprehend the thinking of those who want to risk everything when things aren't all that bad, I try not to take it all TOO seriously. There are other more important things in life of course.

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:38 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm tired of it, Ben, but I also enjoy it too. Whilst I see the problems faced by our nations now, and cannot comprehend the thinking of those who want to risk everything when things aren't all that bad, I try not to take it all TOO seriously. There are other more important things in life of course.

Well, if anything, it's taught me that unlike what my teachers told us, history doesn't move toward progress, at least not in a straight line. Try to imagine someone saying "Can you believe stuff like this is still happening in 2017?" now. It no longer applies.

by 'Wolfie Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:56 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Don't worry, if/when it all goes tits up then our generations will never forget how your lots fucked us over forever due to your short sighted nationalist inclinations.

may I engage your attention just a bit here Eil....

given that (for whatever reason ...I blame the lefty ) we already have the situation whereby a founding principle of the law of the land has been surrendered for the sake of "multiculturalism") That being the singular principle of one law to apply to every man in the land.....we now have at least two areas (more if you count the exceptions (wrongly) granted to those of jewish faith..vis sharia banking law and sharia will law... that are seperate and inaddition to the law of the land.

whilst the "slippery slope" argument is filled with pit falls...how long untill other more serious law is involved...say criminal law....after all the foundation principle of "one law" has been breached, therfore it can (and likely will at some point be breached again) so there is no REAL impediment to this happening. All in the name of equality mind you ....

what then of the "native" breaching some mysterious sharia law ?

will the hapless englishman in a predominantly Muslim ghetto, be prosecuted by "religious police" and tried in a sharia court for eating egg and bacon for breakfast....?

how does the non Muslim plaintiff in a contested will fare with a sharia will...?? (answer is he doesnt ..tough luck)

(bear in mind the disinherited english relation has the right to contest such a will under british law as a matter of course......

so...equally as per your comment....

will those who object to insane levels and carelessness in immigration and the rest be at liberty to "never forget" how YOU "fucked things over" if (when) it all goes "tits up"?

Indeed can an argument not be made that IF you wish to go down that road...should not all those in favour of mass free unrestricted and uncontrolled immigration be held "party to" any terrorist" action that is shown to be due (either directly OR by prioxy) due to the presence of said terrorists via immigration??

maybe IF the "idle youth"...of which there are far too many (granted not all, many youngsters ARE good solid citizens) would get off their ass and work, rather than taking the attitude "i'm not getting out of bed for minimum wages..we wont NEED so many immigrants....(and you know I think minimum wage is a disgrace ...and what i'd do about it....) oh and BTW...not to "rub salt in the wound"...but.....If the "idle youth" had bothered to get of its collective drunk/stoned idle ass and GO AND VOTE....we may have after all ...remained....

perhaps...if it does all go tits you ...you may be blaming the wrong people...look closer to home....

A few minor points :

How does "Sharia law" trump Common Law in the UK.

When did Sharia law take over from Common Law on British soil.

How can you associate "Sharia Law" with "multiculturalism", anyway -- when in places where Sharia Law is implemented, it is by principle contrary to the the very idea, concepts and principles of genuine multiculturalism

"Sharia Law" has no legal standing in Oz, USA, Canada, or most other countries, outside of a couple of dozen Muslim countries, anyway; (over here, so called and mislabelled "Sharia courts" are in fact private arbitration panels, where they get people to privately agree to abide by contracts, before their "judgements are made" -- using contract law to get around the small fact that "Sharia law", isn't in fact genuine law..).

How could "Sharia law" override British law over there, when it isn't actually the law of the land..

Sounds a bit like scaremongering by mis-representing some of the principles of European Community membership rules, there ???

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:33 am

Here is one reason Wolf

Sharia courts in UK face Government inquiry over treatment of women

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sharia-courts-in-uk-face-government-probe-over-treatment-of-women-a7049826.html

I certainly disagree with Victors premise though on Multicultural being a failure, when it has worked and does work. The Uk has a long history of Multiculturalism, and it has worked before. So it would only be fair to say at present, there is problems that need tackling. Just because some do not adhere to values, does not mean others do not. Even more its not a constant and is forever changing, as societies progress. The UK was once also very backwards in its policies and beliefs. To me you have to be critical of poor and bad practices to progress those who practice them. There is certainly problems that need to be addressed and tackled. Not swept under the carpet. Also another important factor and where people always go off, is many cultures and ethnic groups that have come to the Uk are not Muslims, yet people only go off where some Muslims do not integrate. Again where people are not integrating is the fault of the Governments for allowing groups to move and live to the same areas. It ceases to be multiculturalism, areas that become predominantly if one ethnic or religious group flock to live in an area. This has happened in the US, with places like, China Town, Little Italy etc, but the US has succeeded here, because they have a strong emphasis on an American identity. That has been a failing within the Uk on an English and British identity. That needs to be worked on also. Most of all a mass influx over a short period, is a massive strain on the infrastructure.

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:04 pm

Having read the above posts, it's clear to me that les has absolutely no idea what the eu is or why it is such a bad thing.

His naivety on this is astounding!

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Having read the above posts, it's clear to me that les has absolutely no idea what the eu is or why it is such a bad thing.

His naivety on this is astounding!

Care to cite exactly what I said that led you to that assessment, tommy?

No. Thought not. So shut up.

by nicko Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:32 pm

You don't live in the UK, so how does affect you?

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:40 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Don't you live in a different country now ?

Irrelevant. UK law still affects me AND my family and my possible future children.

You're being pathetic - you lost we won get used to it Laughing

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:41 pm

nicko wrote:You don't live in the UK, so how does affect you?

He said it affects his family and future children . Remain lost Razz

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:42 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Irrelevant. UK law still affects me AND my family and my possible future children.

You're being pathetic - you lost we won get used to it

Nobody has won anything yet, as nobody can predict what happens.
If it goes tits up, will you b saying you have won, or will you have gone into hibernation for a while?

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:50 pm

It won't fail we are a strong enough country , we never did need the EU .
You have no faith in your country . I do and it won't fail but the EU will .

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:51 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:It won't fail we are a strong enough country , we never did need the EU .
You have no faith in your country . I do and it won't fail but the EU will .

I hope it does not fail, but nobody can know what will happen
Its not about having faith in the UK, but the rest of the world to do business with.
If companies pull out of the Uk, then we will be screwed.

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Having read the above posts, it's clear to me that les has absolutely no idea what the eu is or why it is such a bad thing.

His naivety on this is astounding!

Care to cite exactly what I said that led you to that assessment, tommy?

No. Thought not. So shut up.

Part of it is how you never say anything much at all specific about the eu... but instead come out with exaggerated childish panic based hyperbole like this little gem highlighted from your earlier post...

Eilzel Today at 4:05 am

+
----
-

"I'm tired of it, Ben, but I also enjoy it too. Whilst I see the problems faced by our nations now, and cannot comprehend the thinking of those who want to risk everything when things aren't all that bad, I try not to take it all TOO seriously. There are other more important things in life of course."

lol!

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Care to cite exactly what I said that led you to that assessment, tommy?

No. Thought not. So shut up.

Parts of it is how you never say anything much at all specific about the eu... but instead come out with exaggerated childish panic based hyperbole like this little gem highlighted from your earlier post...

Eilzel Today at 4:05 am

+
----
-

"I'm tired of it, Ben, but I also enjoy it too. Whilst I see the problems faced by our nations now, and cannot comprehend the thinking of those who want to risk everything when things aren't all that bad, I try not to take it all TOO seriously. There are other more important things in life of course."

Eilzel is factually correct.
It is indeed a risk, a high risk of going into the unknown.

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:08 pm

Shut up dodge...

The eu has been us being dragged further and further into the unknown... and out of our control... we are going back to what we DO know... which is back to our own democracy and control over our own country!!!

Laughing

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:08 pm

I was more concerned for our country while being ruled by Brussels - nobody has a crystal ball - but I really can't see it being any worse than it was under EU rules and regulations .

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Shut up dodge...

The eu has been us being dragged further and further into the unknown... and out of our control... we are going back to what we DO know... which is back to our own democracy and control over our own country!!!

Who is dodge?

And I don't bow down to demands from imbeciles

The Uk is doing very well at the moment, unemployment is very low
So how is it out of control?
Its not, you are just spouting nonsense as per usual

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:13 pm

And the news keeps getting better and better!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38854095

lol!

Why don't the remoaners just fuck off and stop trying to get in the way of democracy!!!???

Laughing

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
And the news keeps getting better and better!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38854095

Why don't the remoaners just fuck off and stop trying to get in the way of democracy!!!???

So lets ask
If remain would have won. Are you telling me, you would have given up and not continued to press for another referendum, just as the SNP are trying to do after losing?

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:17 pm

The tail does not wag the dog...

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
And the news keeps getting better and better!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38854095

Why don't the remoaners just fuck off and stop trying to get in the way of democracy!!!???

Great news cheers

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

The tail does not wag the dog...

So you evade the point

No surprise there then

We all know you would continue to press for leaving, if remain would have won

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:21 pm

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:21 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Don't you live in a different country now ?

Irrelevant. UK law still affects me AND my family and my possible future children.

You're being pathetic - you lost we won get used to it

Who is being pathetic? I have acknowledged that the result didn't go my way and watch on with interest.

It does interest me and my family- I was responding to your catty attempt to claim it doesn't affect me.

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:23 pm

Things weren't so bad, tommy.

And whenever anyone, including me in the past, raises any arguments in favour of remaining, you choke on your waffles and spit exclamation
marks like a keyboard with tourettes...

by Guest Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:29 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

You're being pathetic - you lost we won get used to it

Who is being pathetic? I have acknowledged that the result didn't go my way and watch on with interest.

It does interest me and my family- I was responding to your catty attempt to claim it doesn't affect me.

No I'm elated I voted Leave and we're leaving - what more can i say Razz

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:30 pm

Eilzel wrote:

1) Things weren't so bad, tommy.

2) And whenever anyone, including me in the past, raises any arguments in favour of remaining, you choke on your waffles and spit exclamations marks like a keyboard with tourettes...

1) That is a matter of opinion... you don't even live in uk...

2) Problem is, you and your ilk never offer any positive reasons for remaining in the eu... you only offer spurious fear mongering hyperbole about how the sky is going to fall in if we leave and how it's so racist etc...!

Quite pathetic really when you think about it...!

Laughing

by Eilzel Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:32 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

You're being pathetic - you lost we won get used to it

Who is being pathetic? I have acknowledged that the result didn't go my way and watch on with interest.

It does interest me and my family- I was responding to your catty attempt to claim it doesn't affect me.

No I'm elated I voted Leave and we're leaving - what more can i say

So elated yet still that cattiness lol

I suppose you need something to be happy about Razz

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