PIP is a disaster for disabled people. At last the full horror is emerging

When does reform become dangerous? Over three years ago the Conservatives began to roll out personal independence payments (PIP) – in essence, the mandatory, mass re-testing of disabled and chronically ill people – and the answer is getting stark.

A report released today by Muscular Dystrophy UK is the latest piece of evidence to expose an administrative catastrophe: appointments cancelled at the last minute, lost applications, year-long delays. Two in five respondents report being sent to an assessment centre that wasn’t accessible for disabled people. That’s in order to be tested for a disability benefit.
Make it inside the building and the picture is as dire: widespread reports of assessors – employed by private firms hired by the Department for Work and Pensions – who showed no respect for disabled people, while some didn’t even understand the condition they were testing (one man, with muscular dystrophy, pointed out that the word “progressive” means “muscles don’t come back”).
The result of this chaos is anything from rent arrears and credit card debt to mental scars. One woman, with a muscle wasting disease, said that she developed panic attacks after her assessment. She is now under care of a mental health team and doesn’t leave her house.
That the government deliberately built PIP with tightened criteria – and is sitting by as the system descends into disarray – becomes grimmer still when you consider that this is being done to a benefit tied to other essential disability services.
Without PIP a disabled person can’t access anything from carer’s allowance to severe disability premium. If that isn’t enough, anyone who is rejected – or bumped down to the standard rate – is also barred from the Motability scheme for an accessible car or powered wheelchair.
Sarah, a nurse with progressive muscle wasting and weakness, is seven months’ pregnant – and has been forced to hand back her Motability car. The 29-year-old had been receiving the higher rate of disability living allowance (the predecessor to PIP), but after being reassessed she was knocked down to the standard rate – despite her condition deteriorating.
Sarah can’t take her fatigue medicine without affecting her pregnancy, and her disability means she is at risk of falling when she walks, and permanent damage. “That vehicle was a lifeline to me,” she says. “I’ve lost my independence.”
Last week Sarah was due at a tribunal to appeal against the decision, but found it cancelled with just two days’ notice – and no explanation. She’s been in hospital twice this weekend.

Will this be making many headlines? It took the resignation of Iain Duncan Smith and a budget hole of billions to get the mainstream media to shine a light on the disaster of PIP – or many politicians to find a conscience. One cut to the benefit is stopped. A new secretary of state is hired. And the news cycle moves on. The disabled can’t. For many, things are only getting worse.
Between 400 and 500 adapted cars, powered wheelchairs, and scooters are being taken away from disabled people every week. Independence gone – with a maximum of seven weeks to hand your lifeline back. As an insight into the logic, let alone empathy, in this system, that’s notably less time than it takes to go to appeal or even to get the results of mandatory reconsideration – meaning the DWP’s ruling can be overturned, but the disabled person’s car or wheelchair will already have been taken. (At the last count, 60% of appeals against PIP were successful).
Darran uses a wheelchair – and has a degenerative muscle wasting disease – but last year was downgraded on PIP and lost his car. In his own words, it left him “housebound and isolated”, and he scraped together the deposit for another accessible vehicle. The DWP later informed Darran that its decision had been “mistaken”, and his old car would be returned. “My £2,000 deposit is non-refundable,” he says. “I’ve lost that money.”
This is starting to look like a game with people’s lives. Take away benefits and the sick become destitute. Remove a car or wheelchair and disabled people become housebound. It’s happening right now – and what’s worse, most of the public won’t even know it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/07/pip-disaster-disabled-access-report-benefits?CMP=share_btn_fb


It's an utter scandal, this Government should be ashamed, but it won't be, after all until forced into a U Turn, Osborne wanted to cut even more.

They do need to sort the system out. It needed reorganising, but those who have genuine disabilities need to know that they're going to be dealt with quickly.

I would question why someone with a serious, progressive muscle wasting disease would have a baby, but hey ...

SAME AS over here, the main and obvious reason is extreme cost cutting on the governments part...  And to facilitate that cost cutting, they contract out work like this to unqualIfied fuckwits (and where those contracting companies probably belong to politicians' family or friends, as well..), knowing that those companies will stuff up, and hurt innocent people along the way, but the gov't is still theoretically "saving" money anyway..

AND THEN to cover their own arses, they lie through their teeth about "budget deficits", "fiscal responsibility", "jobs and growth", "trickle down"..  Ably helped along by their billionaire media mates (like Ruppert Murdoch..) spreading and multiplying this propaganda for them.

AND THE REAL reason most conservative-minded governments are collectively going down this path ?  Simply to sharply cut the tax rates, and increase the lurks and loopholes, for their big business mates/backers/owners, of course..

Y'ALL know I'm right  !!!      

sassy wrote:When does reform become dangerous? Over three years ago the Conservatives began to roll out personal independence payments (PIP) – in essence, the mandatory, mass re-testing of disabled and chronically ill people – and the answer is getting stark.

A report released today by Muscular Dystrophy UK is the latest piece of evidence to expose an administrative catastrophe: appointments cancelled at the last minute, lost applications, year-long delays. Two in five respondents report being sent to an assessment centre that wasn’t accessible for disabled people. That’s in order to be tested for a disability benefit.
Make it inside the building and the picture is as dire: widespread reports of assessors – employed by private firms hired by the Department for Work and Pensions – who showed no respect for disabled people, while some didn’t even understand the condition they were testing (one man, with muscular dystrophy, pointed out that the word “progressive” means “muscles don’t come back”).
The result of this chaos is anything from rent arrears and credit card debt to mental scars. One woman, with a muscle wasting disease, said that she developed panic attacks after her assessment. She is now under care of a mental health team and doesn’t leave her house.
That the government deliberately built PIP with tightened criteria – and is sitting by as the system descends into disarray – becomes grimmer still when you consider that this is being done to a benefit tied to other essential disability services.
Without PIP a disabled person can’t access anything from carer’s allowance to severe disability premium. If that isn’t enough, anyone who is rejected – or bumped down to the standard rate – is also barred from the Motability scheme for an accessible car or powered wheelchair.
Sarah, a nurse with progressive muscle wasting and weakness, is seven months’ pregnant – and has been forced to hand back her Motability car. The 29-year-old had been receiving the higher rate of disability living allowance (the predecessor to PIP), but after being reassessed she was knocked down to the standard rate – despite her condition deteriorating.
Sarah can’t take her fatigue medicine without affecting her pregnancy, and her disability means she is at risk of falling when she walks, and permanent damage. “That vehicle was a lifeline to me,” she says. “I’ve lost my independence.”
Last week Sarah was due at a tribunal to appeal against the decision, but found it cancelled with just two days’ notice – and no explanation. She’s been in hospital twice this weekend.

Will this be making many headlines? It took the resignation of Iain Duncan Smith and a budget hole of billions to get the mainstream media to shine a light on the disaster of PIP – or many politicians to find a conscience. One cut to the benefit is stopped. A new secretary of state is hired. And the news cycle moves on. The disabled can’t. For many, things are only getting worse.
Between 400 and 500 adapted cars, powered wheelchairs, and scooters are being taken away from disabled people every week. Independence gone – with a maximum of seven weeks to hand your lifeline back. As an insight into the logic, let alone empathy, in this system, that’s notably less time than it takes to go to appeal or even to get the results of mandatory reconsideration – meaning the DWP’s ruling can be overturned, but the disabled person’s car or wheelchair will already have been taken. (At the last count, 60% of appeals against PIP were successful).
Darran uses a wheelchair – and has a degenerative muscle wasting disease – but last year was downgraded on PIP and lost his car. In his own words, it left him “housebound and isolated”, and he scraped together the deposit for another accessible vehicle. The DWP later informed Darran that its decision had been “mistaken”, and his old car would be returned. “My £2,000 deposit is non-refundable,” he says. “I’ve lost that money.”
This is starting to look like a game with people’s lives. Take away benefits and the sick become destitute. Remove a car or wheelchair and disabled people become housebound. It’s happening right now – and what’s worse, most of the public won’t even know it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/07/pip-disaster-disabled-access-report-benefits?CMP=share_btn_fb


It's an utter scandal, this Government should be ashamed, but it won't be, after all until forced into a U Turn, Osborne wanted to cut even more.

True, it is a scandal. It's very stressful for them too. A family member has to jump through these hoops and I remember they sent him for an assessment to a place that had three flights of fucking stairs and no lift. He's registered disabled and can't manage stairs.

HT... the stairs are part of the 'assessment' ...

WE gotta save money from our own sick, ill, suffering countryfolk to give to the migrants whom so many of you support. Thank you all.

Tommy Monk wrote:HT... the stairs are part of the 'assessment' ...

In the end he had to have a home visit. You tell me what is the point of making people come along to an interview and not tell them about the stairs?

Those that manage to get there, navigate the stairs and find their way after asking the person on front desk etc, have demonstrated enough physical and mental ability to travel and interact with others enough to be considered physically and mentally able to do the same for work.


The whole thing is part of the test!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Those that manage to get there, navigate the stairs and find their way after asking the person on front desk etc, have demonstrated enough physical and mental ability to travel and interact with others enough to be considered physically and mentally able to do the same for work.


The whole thing is part of the test!!!

I heard that years ago. You'd think people would be wise to it by now.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Those that manage to get there, navigate the stairs and find their way after asking the person on front desk etc, have demonstrated enough physical and mental ability to travel and interact with others enough to be considered physically and mentally able to do the same for work.


The whole thing is part of the test!!!

Well, he failed it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Those that manage to get there, navigate the stairs and find their way after asking the person on front desk etc, have demonstrated enough physical and mental ability to travel and interact with others enough to be considered physically and mentally able to do the same for work.


The whole thing is part of the test!!!

I heard that years ago. You'd think people would be wise to it by now.

I'd never heard of it, and neither had the person I'm talking about. Mind you, he never goes on the internet.

A report released today by Muscular Dystrophy UK is the latest piece of evidence to expose an administrative catastrophe: appointments cancelled at the last minute, lost applications, year-long delays. Two in five respondents report being sent to an assessment centre that wasn’t accessible for disabled people. That’s in order to be tested for a disability benefit.

So what happens if you arrive in a wheelchair and there's no lift? How is that part of the test.

If you can get there by wheelchair then you are considered able to get to somewhere else for work...

Tommy Monk wrote:


If you can get there by wheelchair then you are considered able to get to somewhere else for work...

That's all very well, but what if you cannot sustain a job. What if you have such a chronic back condition that the pain means you can't work? What people don't realise is that disabled people have good days and bad days. I know what it's like with just suffering with a migraine, on those days I can't work. I can't face anything. So fuck knows what it's like if you have a bad back and some days the pain is so bad you can't even get out of bed.

Tommy Monk wrote:


If you can get there by wheelchair then you are considered able to get to somewhere else for work...

Well, whoever thought of that is fucking brain dead, and hasn't suffered any pain in their life.

Agreed!  Heard of a case today, lady who is 3' 8" and was born without thigh bones, managed to get a job but can only get there with her disability car, obviously can't walk one step.   They DOWNGRADED her disability so she doesn't qualify for a car and took it away from her, so now she cant work and is just stuck in her home with no way of getting about apart from her wheelchair.   Woulldn't put it past them to take that as well.   Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

SAME AS over here, the main and obvious reason is extreme cost cutting on the governments part...  And to facilitate that cost cutting, they contract out work like this to unqualIfied fuckwits (and where those contracting companies probably belong to politicians' family or friends, as well..), knowing that those companies will stuff up, and hurt innocent people along the way, but the gov't is still theoretically "saving" money anyway..

AND THEN to cover their own arses, they lie through their teeth about "budget deficits", "fiscal responsibility", "jobs and growth", "trickle down"..  Ably helped along by their billionaire media mates (like Ruppert Murdoch..) spreading and multiplying this propaganda for them.

AND THE REAL reason most conservative-minded governments are collectively going down this path ?  Simply to sharply cut the tax rates, and increase the lurks and loopholes, for their big business mates/backers/owners, of course..

Y'ALL know I'm right  !!!      

Wolfie, best  post you have made in a long time and spot on.

HT... I didn't say I agreed with it... just saying how the labour designed ATOS system works...


There are plenty of disabled people managing to do work/jobs...


Plenty of disabled and abled people working from home via Internet etc...



If some with certain problems/disabilities are doing it... why should others with same problems/disabilities be allowed not to?

The disabled and the sick are being shafted by this scummy government day in day. They're a disgrace.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


If you can get there by wheelchair then you are considered able to get to somewhere else for work...

That's all very well, but what if you cannot sustain a job. What if you have such a chronic back condition that the pain means you can't work?   What people don't realise is that disabled people have good days and bad days.   I know what it's like with just suffering with a migraine, on those days I can't work.   I can't face anything.  So fuck knows what it's like if you have a bad back and some days the pain is so bad you can't even get out of bed.

Yes, intermittent "disability" is a problem because you could be fine one day and not fine the next - I have that issue sometimes. I don't know if people can get DLA/PIP/ESA for that kind of thing can they?

sassy wrote:Agreed!  Heard of a case today, lady who is 3' 8" and was born without thigh bones, managed to get a job but can only get there with her disability car, obviously can't walk one step.   They DOWNGRADED her disability so she doesn't qualify for a car and took it away from her, so now she cant work and is just stuck in her home with no way of getting about apart from her wheelchair.   Woulldn't put it past them to take that as well.   Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why doesn't she just buy a car? She has a job so she can afford it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:Agreed!  Heard of a case today, lady who is 3' 8" and was born without thigh bones, managed to get a job but can only get there with her disability car, obviously can't walk one step.   They DOWNGRADED her disability so she doesn't qualify for a car and took it away from her, so now she cant work and is just stuck in her home with no way of getting about apart from her wheelchair.   Woulldn't put it past them to take that as well.   Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why doesn't she just buy a car? She has a job so she can afford it.

Probably because it would have to be a modified one with special controls. That would be very expensive. Not sure why they'd downgrade her, but she could probably appeal.

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

That's all very well, but what if you cannot sustain a job. What if you have such a chronic back condition that the pain means you can't work?   What people don't realise is that disabled people have good days and bad days.   I know what it's like with just suffering with a migraine, on those days I can't work.   I can't face anything.  So fuck knows what it's like if you have a bad back and some days the pain is so bad you can't even get out of bed.

Yes, intermittent "disability" is a problem because you could be fine one day and not fine the next - I have that issue sometimes. I don't know if people can get DLA/PIP/ESA for that kind of thing can they?

Yes, they can but obviously it limits the amount you get paid.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:Agreed!  Heard of a case today, lady who is 3' 8" and was born without thigh bones, managed to get a job but can only get there with her disability car, obviously can't walk one step.   They DOWNGRADED her disability so she doesn't qualify for a car and took it away from her, so now she cant work and is just stuck in her home with no way of getting about apart from her wheelchair.   Woulldn't put it past them to take that as well.   Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why doesn't she just buy a car? She has a job so she can afford it.

Well, lets have a think about that shall we?   She has no thigh bones and can't walk AT ALL, among many other problems, so she should never have been taken off the highest rate of disability.   That's the first thing.   Secondly, the car was specially adapted for her, which costs a lot of money.  PIP has taken over from Disability Living Allowance, it is there to support disabled people so that they can work, it costs them a lot more to work.   Thirdly, like most disabled people, she doesn't earn that much, so cannot afford to buy a specially adapted car that costs more than a normal car.   Then you have the fact that having taken it away, when this is disputed she will hopefully get another one, which will have to be adapted, so will cost more money.   Meantime, she has lost her job because she can't get to it.   How much hope do you think she has of getting another one?

On every level and for every reason, this decision is utter despicable.

Tommy Monk wrote:HT... I didn't say I agreed with it... just saying how the labour designed ATOS system works...


There are plenty of disabled people managing to do work/jobs...


Plenty of disabled and abled people working from home via Internet etc...



If some with certain problems/disabilities are doing it... why should others with same problems/disabilities be allowed not to?

What you have to remember is that mental problems go hand in hand with disability, and depression can be a disability in itself. So, it's all very well saying, go out and get a job as other disabled people do, when you're so mentally depressed that just isn't possible. Also, many painkiller drugs actually cause mental health problems like anxiety, panic attacks, depression, insomnia etc. Those can totally pole axe you and leave you unable to work, or function properly.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, intermittent "disability" is a problem because you could be fine one day and not fine the next - I have that issue sometimes. I don't know if people can get DLA/PIP/ESA for that kind of thing can they?

Yes, they can but obviously it limits the amount you get paid.    

I don't know how they work that out. I sometimes can't go to work, but then other times I can skip down the road with no problem.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why doesn't she just buy a car? She has a job so she can afford it.

Well, lets have a think about that shall we?   She has no thigh bones and can't walk AT ALL, among many other problems, so she should never have been taken off the highest rate of disability.   That's the first thing.   Secondly, the car was specially adapted for her, which costs a lot of money.  PIP has taken over from Disability Living Allowance, it is there to support disabled people so that they can work, it costs them a lot more to work.   Thirdly, like most disabled people, she doesn't earn that much, so cannot afford to buy a specially adapted car that costs more than a normal car.   Then you have the fact that having taken it away, when this is disputed she will hopefully get another one, which will have to be adapted, so will cost more money.   Meantime, she has lost her job because she can't get to it.   How much hope do you think she has of getting another one?

On every level and for every reason, this decision is utter despicable.

If it's this lady, you'll be pleased to know that the decision was overturned.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disabled-woman-essential-benefit-reinstated-7805150

Thanks for that, brilliant news, but it's something that should not have happened in the first place.

sassy wrote:Thanks for that, brilliant news, but it's something that should not have happened in the first place.

Well yes. If a car needs to be adapted, obviously she should be able to have one which is paid for.

sassy wrote:Agreed!  Heard of a case today, lady who is 3' 8" and was born without thigh bones, managed to get a job but can only get there with her disability car, obviously can't walk one step.   They DOWNGRADED her disability so she doesn't qualify for a car and took it away from her, so now she cant work and is just stuck in her home with no way of getting about apart from her wheelchair.   Woulldn't put it past them to take that as well.   Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having read the 'POSTS' {quite thoroughly I might add}, so I'm well versed in the flow of this specific conversation ...here's my #1 question for those that KNOW! 
Doesn't the PIP Agency do an annual review {IN HOME} of the recipients claim/mobility/medical evaluation?
And I do not mean a slow drive by/wave/a holler at the disabled ...but a detailed, sit down and discuss what issues they have - what might have changed since last years review - what new mobility issues need to be addressed if there is money to help them? A complete check list and agency form with the disabled's factual information on it and any immediate needs and problem areas notated  
But to get a knowledgeable REAL HUMANBEING in there like a 'case worker' to look at their living conditions and have a visual - along with their medical submission forms for continued PROOF and future needs that this human has?  

The PIP Agency doesn't do this?

PIP isn't an agency, its a benefit that replaces other benefits that used to be given.   Its a complete mess, implimenting it has cost hundreds of millions, and it's a disaster.   It's so complicanted I couldn't even begin to explain, but this might help  https://www.gov.uk/pip/overview     It sounds great on there, it isn't and alot of it is to do the wth the agencies who oversee it, and have definite instructions to use it to save money (the Government deny it, but information about that has been leaked over and over)

Well, it a round-about-way ...it's similar to our Social Security Disability benefit 'SSI' program and 'someone' has to prepare the paper work - verify the medical reason that this human is in need and then there is an annual review processed for any changes {better / worse} in the claimants conditions. 

Well, in 'theory' that's how it's supposed to work; last fall there was a computer software upgrade and nearly 15,000+ Kansas's got dropped into a BLACK HOLE and lost all of their benefits - disappeared off the Vision Card {food stamps/Sec 8 housing subsidy/SSI supplemental payment} and that took another 3 months to fix.  How those 15,000+ managed to get through our winter months ...

But if I'm getting your reply correctly - there isn't an agency that makes an annual home visit to check up - modify - see how those humans are doing on their PIP program; they just make decisions without ever doing a 'IN HOME WELFARE CHECK UP' ...astounding