One lefty thread after another

[Clarkson]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

[Guest]

     

       

Says the worst debator it's ever been my misfortune to come across. For fucks sake, get help with that obsession.

[Guest]

     

        

A forum can't survive without differing opinion, there is no debate, no discussion   

[Guest]

     

        

A forum can't survive without differing opinion, there is no debate, no discussion   

Who disagreed? Drinky debate? Pigs will fly first.

[Guest]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

Why don't you post some RW threads then!...It would appear that you have only come onto these boards, to further your obsession of Sassy!

You cut and run again, but you always come back in the end!   

[Irn Bru]

The cut and paste Queen and the "I don't support Labour" disingenuous Jock who clearly works for them for nothing reprint Guardian news pieces and Labour propaganda adnauseum.

Eeee! its just like Speakfree.


Havent seen any rebuttals on RW posts just thread after thread of Labour news.


You goons couldn't debate to save your lives.

Adios I'll leave you to kill off another forum.

Point me to one Drinky and I'll give you an answer. And I'm still waiting on your response on the Food Bank thread,,,,,when you're ready.

[Guest]

     

        

A forum can't survive without differing opinion, there is no debate, no discussion   

But there has been differing opinions between the left and right on here, and some really good debaters FTL!

[Guest]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

[Irn Bru]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

Oy, I'm first in the Queue for an answer.

[Guest]

A forum can't survive without differing opinion, there is no debate, no discussion   

But there has been differing opinions between the left and right on here, and some really good debaters FTL!

I'm glad you see that Phil, what I see is the left wanting to chase off and silence the right and the right frustrated and being portrayed as demons. Why can't it be about your opinion rather than political persuasion? Left, right both are too often used as a term of abuse and/or a put down  

[Guest]

gerrout of it IRN........

[Guest]

Sad little man, probably has a metaphorical mustache he twirls while he is typing, and goes heerump a lot!

[Guest]

gerrout of it IRN........

OMG are you who I think you are????   x

[Guest]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

Yeah I am kind of waiting for the LW to explain why nothing should be done to cut down waste just because they consider a cost counted in billions to be insignificant.

Also why do they never consider things from the point of view of those who have benefited.

[Irn Bru]

But there has been differing opinions between the left and right on here, and some really good debaters FTL!

I'm glad you see that Phil, what I see is the left wanting to chase off and silence the right and the right frustrated and being portrayed as demons. Why can't it be about your opinion rather than political persuasion? Left, right both are too often used as a term of abuse and/or a put down  

Absolutely not the case. I welcome all RW content from anyone but they have to accept that a debate goes two ways.

[Guest]

I'm glad you see that Phil, what I see is the left wanting to chase off and silence the right and the right frustrated and being portrayed as demons. Why can't it be about your opinion rather than political persuasion? Left, right both are too often used as a term of abuse and/or a put down  

Absolutely not the case. I welcome all RW content from anyone but they have to accept that a debate goes two ways.

"Right back atcha" x

[Guest]

Well now FTL, of course the L/W want to chase off the R/W, since the R/W are evil dontcha know 

[Guest]

gerrout of it IRN........

OMG are you who I think you are????   x

:::grouch::

[Irn Bru]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

Yeah I am kind of waiting for the LW to explain why nothing should be done to cut down waste just because they consider a cost counted in billions to be insignificant.

Also why do they never consider things from the point of view of those who have benefited.

I'm still waiting on the evidence to support that instead of a dismissal of all the evidence that shows that these reforms have left many people struggling.

[Guest]

Thing is RW versus LW is so last century. The actual political battle ground now is big government versus small government.

[Guest]

But there has been differing opinions between the left and right on here, and some really good debaters FTL!

I'm glad you see that Phil, what I see is the left wanting to chase off and silence the right and the right frustrated and being portrayed as demons. Why can't it be about your opinion rather than political persuasion? Left, right both are too often used as a term of abuse and/or a put down  

Hi FTL

I haven't seen that at all because i have been reading the debates on here, and there are some really good players on here, from both sides of the political spectrum!

I read other smaller sites on the net as well, i can't see how you can come to that conclusion, when on certain other sites, the left are indeed chased away and the admin on certain sites will curtail to the wishes of the RW, and there is so much abuse towards the LW on those sites and no kind of balance imo.

cite...Durham on another site, as just one example.

[Guest]

Well now FTL, of course the L/W want to chase off the R/W, since the R/W are evil dontcha know 

    

[Guest]

Yeah I am kind of waiting for the LW to explain why nothing should be done to cut down waste just because they consider a cost counted in billions to be insignificant.

Also why do they never consider things from the point of view of those who have benefited.

I'm still waiting on the evidence to support that instead of a dismissal of all the evidence that shows that these reforms have left many people struggling.

I am the evidence - I stand far more of a chance of getting back to work thanks to the reforms but some people dont want to hear that.

[Guest]

and I'm still waiting for the R/W to counter my point on the utter insignificance of the cost of benefits (minus pensions) in comparison to govt spending as a whole  

Typical R/W trying to close down debate by complaining about the opposing view  

Yeah I am kind of waiting for the LW to explain why nothing should be done to cut down waste just because they consider a cost counted in billions to be insignificant.


there is no "consider" about it. It IS insignificant when talking in the telephone number figures that encompass a nations budget
look at those figures I quoted you and go figure

Also why do they never consider things from the point of view of those who have benefited.

So...a very few have benefited, I bet there are more loosers than gainers and the loosers are more often than not the most vulnerable

[Irn Bru]

I'm glad you see that Phil, what I see is the left wanting to chase off and silence the right and the right frustrated and being portrayed as demons. Why can't it be about your opinion rather than political persuasion? Left, right both are too often used as a term of abuse and/or a put down  

Hi FTL

I haven't seen that at all because i have been reading the debates on here, and there are some really good players on here, from both sides of the political spectrum!

I read other smaller sites on the net as well, i can't see how you can come to that conclusion, when on certain other sites, the left are indeed chased away and the admin on certain sites will curtail to the wishes of the RW, and there is so much abuse towards the LW on those sites and no kind of balance imo.

cite...Durham on another site, as just one example.

Some people did scuttle off there right enough in search of a more balanced debating chamber. lol

[Guest]

I'm still waiting on the evidence to support that instead of a dismissal of all the evidence that shows that these reforms have left many people struggling.

I am the evidence - I stand far more of a chance of getting back to work thanks to the reforms but some people dont want to hear that.

Ahhh...I'm all right jack sod you ...figures

[Guest]

Hi FTL

I haven't seen that at all because i have been reading the debates on here, and there are some really good players on here, from both sides of the political spectrum!

I read other smaller sites on the net as well, i can't see how you can come to that conclusion, when on certain other sites, the left are indeed chased away and the admin on certain sites will curtail to the wishes of the RW, and there is so much abuse towards the LW on those sites and no kind of balance imo.

cite...Durham on another site, as just one example.

Some people did scuttle off there right enough in search of a more balanced debating chamber. lol

Hmmm   

I know exactly who you mean!

[Guest]

I am the evidence - I stand far more of a chance of getting back to work thanks to the reforms but some people dont want to hear that.

Ahhh...I'm all right jack sod you ...figures

Quite, seems to me Sphinx what you are saying is because your particular circumstances benefited you are happy to ignore the fact that those who have studied it say that other people, the most vunerable, are going to have it much harder, and 'I'm all right Jack' sums that view up exactly.

[Guest]

Some people did scuttle off there right enough in search of a more balanced debating chamber. lol

Hmmm   

I know exactly who you mean!

Lol, yep we want a more balanced view and we don't want people having a go at the RW so we will go to a RW racist forum, obviously completely balanced!!!!

[Guest]

gerrout of it IRN........

OMG are you who I think you are????   x

   x

I want to know who that is as well!

I love reading his posts!   

[Guest]

Hmmm   

I know exactly who you mean!

Lol, yep we want a more balanced view and we don't want people having a go at the RW so we will go to a RW racist forum, obviously completely balanced!!!!

Very sad individual!....A wolf in sheep's clothing!

[Guest]

I am the evidence - I stand far more of a chance of getting back to work thanks to the reforms but some people dont want to hear that.

Ahhh...I'm all right jack sod you ...figures

Actually I see an awful lot of people who are benefiting long term and are just starting to realize that. But that is all heresy and gossip.

I just have a problem with people insisting on the Labour = good, Tories = bad equation. A lot of the suffering (every single piece of suffering caused by the change to ESA for example) has its root cause in the last government but all I ever seem to read is that its all the Tories fault.

[Ben Reilly]

OK, here's the truth. I just don't care about most of the things that conservatives seem to find ever-so important.

I don't shut myself off from what they say; just the other day I heard a Republican proposal to create more insurance options in Obamacare by doing away with some of the rules that keep insurance companies from competing across U.S. state lines, and I think that's a fantastic idea that we should have implemented long ago.

But so much of it -- particularly here -- just sounds to me like, "Oh, the immigration/debt/whatever number is big and I'm scared!"

I understand that people are afraid of accents and change and rich people not being able to pinch hard on every last penny they come across, but those issues just don't connect with me.

[Guest]

Ahhh...I'm all right jack sod you ...figures

Quite, seems to me Sphinx what you are saying is because your particular circumstances benefited you are happy to ignore the fact that those who have studied it say that other people, the most vunerable, are going to have it much harder, and 'I'm all right Jack' sums that view up exactly.

You obviously prefer to have people declared vulnerable and written off. You dont like the fact that I am steadfastly refuse to act vulnerable and that I keep fighting for those you declare to be vulnerable to be allowed to decide for themselves how useless they actually are.

[Guest]

Quite, seems to me Sphinx what you are saying is because your particular circumstances benefited you are happy to ignore the fact that those who have studied it say that other people, the most vunerable, are going to have it much harder, and 'I'm all right Jack' sums that view up exactly.

You obviously prefer to have people declared vulnerable and written off.  You dont like the fact that I am steadfastly refuse to act vulnerable and that I keep fighting for those you declare to be vulnerable to be allowed to decide for themselves how useless they actually are.

Don't be daft all your life.   I want the opposite.   I want people who absolutely under no circumstances can work to be treated with dignity and respect and have a decent life, and that take money, and that is what the charities who help these people say is not going to happen, in fact the opposite is.   As I said, you don't have to pay bedroom tax, you are not being told you are fit to work and your money is going to stop.   Many people in far worse health than you are being told these things and that is documented fact that you won't acknowledge.   You're ok, so everyone else must be.

I might add, not like my friend who was dying from terminal cancer and told she had to attend for an assessment.

[Guest]

Well....now you mention it they HAVE been in power for the last 4 years...plenty of time to secure the economy by simple tax measures (and I dont mean tax rises) like making sure corporations pay their due, not use out of date and unfit for purpose tax loopholes to escape paying what they rightly owe, but no the shirked that responsibility and hammered...to no effect the least well off.

Now I have never said Its ALL the fualt of the tories, indeed the last labour lot were little better, but then they were not labour, any more than drinky will see that the tories are the tories of old...they are NOT.

however the present tories are no better than the "old tories" for the working man
and the last labour lot were traitors to their voter base.
as for the its all the last govts fault as in the example given.....who is in power NOW...???

remember....it is LAW that one parliment MAY NOT bind another.....the tories were NOT forced to follow it through...and then some.....

[veya_victaous]

Well for the Effort of Posting this thread You could posted some RW news.

Plus I do think Big Andy is doing his best to keep the balance anyway.

[Guest]

Quite, seems to me Sphinx what you are saying is because your particular circumstances benefited you are happy to ignore the fact that those who have studied it say that other people, the most vunerable, are going to have it much harder, and 'I'm all right Jack' sums that view up exactly.

You obviously prefer to have people declared vulnerable and written off.  You dont like the fact that I am steadfastly refuse to act vulnerable and that I keep fighting for those you declare to be vulnerable to be allowed to decide for themselves how useless they actually are.

But they are sending off the terminally ill to attend medicals fucking miles away, that aren't very easily accessible, they are fucking vulnerable and can't fucking walk for more than four minutes without being in crippling pain.

It would be impossible without at least two cab fares, and for many, they aren't able to afford these fucking cab fares.

From here...You have to travel from a little pocket...fifteen mins to the nearest station, then you have to travel up to central London on one train, then change to another platform at the other end of the station concourse, then get another train to the destination which is on the fucking outskirts of London FFS!   

[Guest]

Well for the Effort of Posting this thread You could posted some RW news.

Plus I do think Big Andy is doing his best to keep the balance anyway.

  

[Guest]

Thank fuck that i borrowed some money to get a fold up wheelchair...They don't give them away free anymore!

[Guest]

My friend had cancer in her lungs, liver, kidneys, bones and brain. You have to come for an assessment they said. Her doctor went and told them what he thought of them.

[Guest]

OK, here's the truth. I just don't care about most of the things that conservatives seem to find ever-so important.

I don't shut myself off from what they say; just the other day I heard a Republican proposal to create more insurance options in Obamacare by doing away with some of the rules that keep insurance companies from competing across U.S. state lines, and I think that's a fantastic idea that we should have implemented long ago.

But so much of it -- particularly here -- just sounds to me like, "Oh, the immigration/debt/whatever number is big and I'm scared!"

I understand that people are afraid of accents and change and rich people not being able to pinch hard on every last penny they come across, but those issues just don't connect with me.

Ben I am not being disrespectful here but there is no way a "yank" can properly understand the immigration situation over here. Forget the accents and xenophobia arguments the problem is at base a geographic one. We are a very very small country. We are the most densely populated in the EU. Put quite simply immigration is about crowding in a way that those from the US cannot understand - even New Yorkers have central park. You guys think nothing of a 50 mile trip for a special evening out, going to the other end of the country means driving a car for days not hours, you have unspoilt wilderness and people can explore places that have not seen another human for years. Even those living in the likes of New York or LA or the other big metro areas know they are in a country where if they wanted to chuck it all in they could find themselves a spot without any other human for miles and stay there for months without seeing someone.
The signs are not obvious - maybe shopping takes a little bit longer cause there are just that many more shopping, there is that extra child in the classroom, you have to wait an extra day for a doctors appointment, the journey to grandmas takes longer because there are more cars on the road - for many many people here these little changes are equating to a constantly slightly raised stress level. I know there are those who are going to start yelling about how stress is due to financial situations but there is a link there as well. Wages rise when firms need to hold onto staff - when there are 10 other equally qualified equally eager alternative workers for a job the employer feels far less pressure to increase wages. We have an overflowing labour market and its a buyers market. It all adds up and is a constant in our lives. It is not fear of the immigrants as individuals that you hear it is fear of immigration as a force.

[Guest]

My friend had cancer in her lungs, liver, kidneys, bones and brain.   You have to come for an assessment they said.   Her doctor went and told them what he thought of them.

Yeah and people failing to obey the rules of their own system proves what exactly?

[Guest]

My friend had cancer in her lungs, liver, kidneys, bones and brain.   You have to come for an assessment they said.   Her doctor went and told them what he thought of them.

Yeah and people failing to obey the rules of their own system proves what exactly?

You WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

You obviously prefer to have people declared vulnerable and written off.  You dont like the fact that I am steadfastly refuse to act vulnerable and that I keep fighting for those you declare to be vulnerable to be allowed to decide for themselves how useless they actually are.

Don't be daft all your life.   I want the opposite.   I want people who absolutely under no circumstances can work to be treated with dignity and respect and have a decent life, and that take money, and that is what the charities who help these people say is not going to happen, in fact the opposite is.   As I said, you don't have to pay bedroom tax, you are not being told you are fit to work and your money is going to stop.   Many people in far worse health than you are being told these things and that is documented fact that you won't acknowledge.   You're ok, so everyone else must be.

I might add, not like my friend who was dying from terminal cancer and told she had to attend for an assessment.

How do you know I am not affected by these things?

[Guest]

OK, here's the truth. I just don't care about most of the things that conservatives seem to find ever-so important.

I don't shut myself off from what they say; just the other day I heard a Republican proposal to create more insurance options in Obamacare by doing away with some of the rules that keep insurance companies from competing across U.S. state lines, and I think that's a fantastic idea that we should have implemented long ago.

But so much of it -- particularly here -- just sounds to me like, "Oh, the immigration/debt/whatever number is big and I'm scared!"

I understand that people are afraid of accents and change and rich people not being able to pinch hard on every last penny they come across, but those issues just don't connect with me.

What connects with me is the callousness of a system that puts a woman in the circumstances described in the bedroom tax thread through the totally unnecessary anguish she has.
There is absolutly NO need for it...all it requires is a medical opinion ..FROM A QUALIFIED DOCTOR....not an ATOS monkey and her file at the local council should be marked "spare bedroom needed, housing benefit guaranteed" and a simple form every year saying "have your circumstances changed yes or no"

job done, problem solved

Instead she will be put through hell to get something which by ANY civilised standard she should be entitled to....I resent my taxes NOT being used to help those like her..properly and decently.

THIS is the evil of the system....

[Guest]

Well....now you mention it they HAVE been in power for the last 4 years...plenty of time to secure the economy by simple tax measures (and I dont mean tax rises) like making sure corporations pay their due, not use out of date and unfit for purpose tax loopholes to escape paying what they rightly owe, but no the shirked that responsibility and hammered...to no effect the least well off.

Now I have never said Its ALL the fualt of the tories, indeed the last labour lot were little better, but then they were not labour, any more than drinky will see that the tories are the tories of old...they are NOT.

however the present tories are no better than the "old tories" for the working man
and the last labour lot were traitors to their voter base.
as for the its all the last govts fault as in the example given.....who is in power NOW...???

remember....it is LAW that one parliment MAY NOT bind another.....the tories were NOT forced to follow it through...and then some.....

You dont and you talk sense - and I totally agree with you on tax reform etc (I will give you a clue I am not a Tory supporter)

However others do - I have had someone on here insisting that ESA and the WCA was nothing to do with Labour and that while they were in power nobody ever got denied benefits or had horrible things happen and that drives me nuts.

[Guest]

My friend had cancer in her lungs, liver, kidneys, bones and brain.   You have to come for an assessment they said.   Her doctor went and told them what he thought of them.

If you get abusive they throw you out, then they just send another appointment.

I will be overseeing things in a calm and considered manner.

I will not lose my temper.

I will mention, in passing, that i have heard horror stories about terminally ill people being made fit for work.

I will point out that Doug is in the support group and nothing has changed, will point out that his consultant has written to them, to confirm these facts.

[Guest]

Don't be daft all your life.   I want the opposite.   I want people who absolutely under no circumstances can work to be treated with dignity and respect and have a decent life, and that take money, and that is what the charities who help these people say is not going to happen, in fact the opposite is.   As I said, you don't have to pay bedroom tax, you are not being told you are fit to work and your money is going to stop.   Many people in far worse health than you are being told these things and that is documented fact that you won't acknowledge.   You're ok, so everyone else must be.

I might add, not like my friend who was dying from terminal cancer and told she had to attend for an assessment.

How do you know I am not affected by these things?  

You have said how many bedrooms you have and who is in them.   And you have said you have someone who is working with you to help you, so you are obviously not being told you benefit is going to stop.   And I absolutely object to your previous post.

[Guest]

Don't be daft all your life.   I want the opposite.   I want people who absolutely under no circumstances can work to be treated with dignity and respect and have a decent life, and that take money, and that is what the charities who help these people say is not going to happen, in fact the opposite is.   As I said, you don't have to pay bedroom tax, you are not being told you are fit to work and your money is going to stop.   Many people in far worse health than you are being told these things and that is documented fact that you won't acknowledge.   You're ok, so everyone else must be.

I might add, not like my friend who was dying from terminal cancer and told she had to attend for an assessment.

How do you know I am not affected by these things?  

Because I cant and dont believe you are evil, so if you WERE affected by these things....you would sing a different tune..

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