Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:51 am

Two men convicted of kicking a 81-year-old grandfather to death in a racially motivated and “unprovoked" attack have been jailed for 46 years.
Mushin Ahmed died 11 days after he was punched, kicked and stamped on by Dale Jones and Damien Hunt, both 30, as he made his way to prayers at a Mosque in Rotherham in August last year.

Jones, of Norwood Street, Rotherham, was convicted of murder and jailed for life with a minimum term of 32 years.
Hunt of Doncaster Road, Rotherham, was convicted of manslaughter and jailed for 14 years.
During the trial at Sheffield Crown Court, jurors heard Jones flew into “raging fury” fuelled by drink and drugs, accusing Mr Ahmed of being a “groomer” before attacking him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-pair-who-kicked-Muslim-grandfather-to-death-while-calling-him-a-groomer-jailed-for-46-a6904291.html

by Major Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:03 am

Was he a 'groomer'?

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:15 am

I'm going to assume that he wasn't Stormee.

I suppose they used the drugs and drink as an excuse, but I think that it makes it worse. If people can't control themselves, they shouldn't take drugs or drink.

Poor old chap.

by Victorismyhero Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:23 am

Stormee wrote:Was he a 'groomer'?

AND, Stormee, may i remind you we have the rule of law over here....

even if he WAS a groomer...they have no right to carry out what amounts to an extra judical execution

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:24 am

Why was Hunt only convicted of manslaughter? He knew his mate was kicking this old man - did he think that was OK?

It reminds me of those disgusting people who kicked a gay man to death in London - they were convicted of manslaughter FFS. I don't know what the jury were thinking of.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12283937

by Victorismyhero Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:28 am

the difference between manslaughter and murder is a fine but impotant one

murder is done when you kill someone "with malice aforethought"

in other words you went out with the intent to kill someone

now clearly since they used fists and feet, it is difficult to say that at the beginning of the evening they intended to kill someone....they could plead that they only intended to do him harm and that his death was not intended

hence manslaughter

for murder you have to prove intent to kill
for manslaughter the fact that he was killed is sufficient

Jones as the obvious leader was convicted of murder becasue he initiated the attack (and there may have been other evidence like a witness hearing him state the intent to kill....)
which would indicate "INTENT"

courts are reluctant to use the vehicle of "joint enterprise" becasue its still controvertial over here......

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:37 am

You don't have to go out with the intention to kill someone to be convicted of murder, you can be convicted if you knew your actions were likely to lead to death or serious harm. Obviously, if you kick someone and stamp on them, you know you're going to cause them serious harm. I just don't think that anyone saying - oh well, yes I stamped on a guy's head but I didn't know that would harm him - is much of an excuse.

by Major Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:46 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Stormee wrote:Was he a 'groomer'?

AND, Stormee, may i remind you we have the rule of law over here....

even if he WAS a groomer...they have no right to carry out what amounts to an extra judical execution

My question is "Was he a groomer".
That is all I said.
Read below.

Why are you lecturing me on the law?

by Victorismyhero Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:You don't have to go out with the intention to kill someone to be convicted of murder, you can be convicted if you knew your actions were likely to lead to death or serious harm. Obviously, if you kick someone and stamp on them, you know you're going to cause them serious harm. I just don't think that anyone saying - oh well, yes I stamped on a guy's head but I didn't know that would harm him - is much of an excuse.

em.....NOPE

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:48 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:You don't have to go out with the intention to kill someone to be convicted of murder, you can be convicted if you knew your actions were likely to lead to death or serious harm. Obviously, if you kick someone and stamp on them, you know you're going to cause them serious harm. I just don't think that anyone saying - oh well, yes I stamped on a guy's head but I didn't know that would harm him - is much of an excuse.

em.....NOPE

Murder is an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is considered the most serious form of homicide, in which one person kills another with the intention to unlawfully cause either death or serious injury.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Are you suggesting that someone who kicks and stamps on someone with such violence does not intend to cause them serious injury?

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:00 pm

It's possible that Jones did not actually intend to kill Mr Ahmed, but intended to cause him serious harm. He was convicted of murder - which is right. What I don't know is why Hunt was not convicted of murder as well. He joined in the attack, and just because he perhaps didn't deliver the actual fatal blows or kicks, does that mean that he did not intend to cause Mr Ahmed serious harm?

He did not attempt to help Mr Ahmed afterwards - he ran off with Jones.

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:10 pm

Hunt was also on bail for two other alleged offences, and he was not supposed to be out on the streets at all at the time.

Will he get extra time for breaking the curfew, and for the other crimes for which he was on bail if he's found guilty, or will they just give him a concurrent sentence? I don't see the point of concurrent sentences. If he committed separate crimes he should serve more time for them.

He also went fishing after the murder - as if nothing had happened.

http://www.rotherhamnewsheadlines.co.uk/one-of-the-convicted-killers-of-mushin-ahmed-was-out-on-bail-during-attack/

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Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

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Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years

Re: Rotherham pair who kicked Muslim grandfather to death while calling him a ‘groomer’ jailed for 46 years