New York police say man wearing traditional Muslim clothing was beaten as assailants chanted ‘ISIS’

by Guest Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:55 pm

New York City police were investigating on Sunday an assault on a man who was pummeled by suspects shouting “ISIS, ISIS,” leaving him with bruises on his head and face, authorities said. The 43-year-old man was attacked while walking with a nine-year-old girl in the Bronx around 5:30 p.m. on Friday, according to the New York City Police Department. He was punched several times in the head, knocked down and kicked, police said. The victim, whose name was not given, was treated for injuries at a hospital and released. He had been wearing a shalwar kameez, a traditional South Asian outfit featuring a long tunic, the New York Times reported.

The attack comes amid increasing anxiety in the United States over the threat posed by Islamic State, also known as ISIS, which has claimed responsibility for militant attacks around the world. A Muslim couple inspired by the group killed 14 people on Dec. 2 in San Bernardino, California, just weeks after gunmen linked to Islamic State killed 130 people in Paris. No one was immediately arrested in the New York assault, which is under investigation by the police department’s Hate Crime Task Force, the agency said in a statement on Saturday.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/new-york-police-say-man-wearing-traditional-Muslim-clothing-was-beaten-as-assailants-chanted-isis/

by eddie Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:02 pm

See this is what happens when people panic.....

by Victorismyhero Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:24 pm

well as quill and ben would maintain...nothing to see here....
the law has it in hand

its not a problem

by eddie Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:25 pm

Lord Foul wrote:well as quill and ben would maintain...nothing to see here....
the law has it in hand

its not a problem

Yes that's true. A non-story

by Victorismyhero Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:25 pm

besides its "only" one man (poor chap)

one incident in all those cities and hge numbers of Muslims

its of no account

a mere "media bite"

by Ben Reilly Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:30 pm

Lord Foul wrote:besides its "only" one man (poor chap)

one incident in all those cities and hge numbers of Muslims

its of no account

a mere "media bite"

It's certainly nothing to freak out about -- things like this do happen all the time.

by Original Quill Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:43 pm

All it shows is that we have knuckle-draggers, just as they have in Europe. But we knew that. You can't generalize from specifics.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:04 pm

When Lee Rigby was murdered here, it was also only one man, but it was one too many - because of the motive.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered, I'm sure that most people didn't say - well it was just one bloke, it happens all the time.

by Original Quill Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:When Lee Rigby was murdered here, it was also only one man, but it was one too many - because of the motive.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered, I'm sure that most people didn't say - well it was just one bloke, it happens all the time.

So what is your point?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:When Lee Rigby was murdered here, it was also only one man, but it was one too many - because of the motive.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered, I'm sure that most people didn't say - well it was just one bloke, it happens all the time.

So what is your point?

Apparently, some people have been saying "it's just a few" when it comes to this kind of thing, or it "happens all the time". Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many victims there are, or how few people commit a particular crime, it's the motive which counts, and whether people think that motive could lead to worse things.

by eddie Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:When Lee Rigby was murdered here, it was also only one man, but it was one too many - because of the motive.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered, I'm sure that most people didn't say - well it was just one bloke, it happens all the time.

So what is your point?

Why would you need to ask?
It's abundantly clear what rags means.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:30 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So what is your point?

Why would you need to ask?
It's abundantly clear what rags means.

Really? That makes a change. Laughing

by eddie Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So what is your point?

Why would you need to ask?
It's abundantly clear what rags means.

Really? That makes a change.

I always know what you mean.
I might be a slut but I'm not a stupid one Razz

by Major Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:46 pm

It is called 'getting revenge'.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:58 pm

Stormee wrote:It is called 'getting revenge'.

So let's say you're white. Dylan Roof murdered a bunch of black people, you may have read about it. Would a black person killing you be "getting revenge," or murder?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:When Lee Rigby was murdered here, it was also only one man, but it was one too many - because of the motive.

When Stephen Lawrence was murdered, I'm sure that most people didn't say - well it was just one bloke, it happens all the time.

So what is your point?

Apparently, some people have been saying "it's just a few" when it comes to this kind of thing, or it "happens all the time". Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many victims there are, or how few people commit a particular crime, it's the motive which counts, and whether people think that motive could lead to worse things.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

When something like this happens, some people jump in and say that this represents Muslims as a whole. Then other people like me jump in and ask how you could possibly let the actions of 1, 100, 1,000 or even 100,000 people define what 1.5 billion people are like?

And then some people make the straw man argument that we're excusing or ignoring crime because "it's just a few."

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:05 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Apparently, some people have been saying "it's just a few" when it comes to this kind of thing, or it "happens all the time". Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many victims there are, or how few people commit a particular crime, it's the motive which counts, and whether people think that motive could lead to worse things.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

When something like this happens, some people jump in and say that this represents Muslims as a whole. Then other people like me jump in and ask how you could possibly let the actions of 1, 100, 1,000 or even 100,000 people define what 1.5 billion people are like?

And then some people make the straw man argument that we're excusing or ignoring crime because "it's just a few."

Represents Muslims? Surely the question is - does it represent non-Muslims?

It might be an isolated incident, but it might not be.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Apparently, some people have been saying "it's just a few" when it comes to this kind of thing, or it "happens all the time". Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many victims there are, or how few people commit a particular crime, it's the motive which counts, and whether people think that motive could lead to worse things.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

When something like this happens, some people jump in and say that this represents Muslims as a whole. Then other people like me jump in and ask how you could possibly let the actions of 1, 100, 1,000 or even 100,000 people define what 1.5 billion people are like?

And then some people make the straw man argument that we're excusing or ignoring crime because "it's just a few."

well isnt that exactly what you are doing?

you certainly dont seem to want to do much about it
you certainly dont seem to want to stop it happening again
you certainly seem to want to bring more of the same...regardless of the above
you certainly seem to be "ok" with the idea...
in fact, I guess, provided it doesnt impact you directly you seem quite content to tell everyone else to "suck it up "
and MOST certainly you seem prepared to make ANY one else make any sacrifice on the altar of your ideology.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:17 pm

I mean ben...

how CAN you ask the german people to "take to" these refuges, when it is now prety well proven that a significant (above the "normal level") of them are at BEST sex pests, if not downright dangerous?

really you are missing the point here ...people can work out their own statistics

Never mind the "whole picture"...(and we DONT know what that is)

in that migrant enclave in cologne how many refugees in total...

say 5, maybe 6 000, lets be generous and say 10,000

now 1000 (as a guess) were involved in the new year shennanigins

so that 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 or 1 in 10 if we are being generous) ARE indeed "of that nature"

what do YOU say to the people of cologne????

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:18 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Apparently, some people have been saying "it's just a few" when it comes to this kind of thing, or it "happens all the time". Sometimes, it doesn't matter how many victims there are, or how few people commit a particular crime, it's the motive which counts, and whether people think that motive could lead to worse things.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

When something like this happens, some people jump in and say that this represents Muslims as a whole. Then other people like me jump in and ask how you could possibly let the actions of 1, 100, 1,000 or even 100,000 people define what 1.5 billion people are like?

And then some people make the straw man argument that we're excusing or ignoring crime because "it's just a few."

well isnt that exactly what you are doing?

you certainly dont seem to want to do much about it
you certainly dont seem to want to stop it happening again
you certainly seem to want to bring more of the same...regardless of the above
you certainly seem to be "ok" with the idea...
in fact, I guess, provided it doesnt impact you directly you seem quite content to tell everyone else to "suck it up "
and MOST certainly you seem prepared to make ANY one else make any sacrifice on the altar of your ideology.

I don't propose that anyone stop trying to eliminate crime, Vic. Here you go again, dancing right up to the edge of accusing me of endorsing violence.

My stance on the refugee crisis should be clear by now, I'm not going to play this game where you get to goad me into wasting my time repeating it over and over again.

I'll never say that the majority of innocent, desperate refugees should have been turned away because of the unavoidable fact that every large group of people is going to include criminals. I'll never favor profiling either, and I think that's what a lot of people are really pushing for. They want governments to start treating every individual Muslim as though they might be strapped up in a suicide vest, and you know how abhorrent I find that idea.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:25 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

well isnt that exactly what you are doing?

you certainly dont seem to want to do much about it
you certainly dont seem to want to stop it happening again
you certainly seem to want to bring more of the same...regardless of the above
you certainly seem to be "ok" with the idea...
in fact, I guess, provided it doesnt impact you directly you seem quite content to tell everyone else to "suck it up "
and MOST certainly you seem prepared to make ANY one else make any sacrifice on the altar of your ideology.

I don't propose that anyone stop trying to eliminate crime, Vic. Here you go again, dancing right up to the edge of accusing me of endorsing violence.

My stance on the refugee crisis should be clear by now, I'm not going to play this game where you get to goad me into wasting my time repeating it over and over again.

I'll never say that the majority of innocent, desperate refugees should have been turned away because of the unavoidable fact that every large group of people is going to include criminals. I'll never favor profiling either, and I think that's what a lot of people are really pushing for. They want governments to start treating every individual Muslim as though they might be strapped up in a suicide vest, and you know how abhorrent I find that idea.

So you are happy then for other people to carry the risk of your ideology?

what if they decide not to...

perhaps they ARE deciding not to, which is why the left are such a good recruiter for the right...

personally I find the idea that "its tough luck, but necessary" on the victims and "we will try to do better " policing wise quite abhorrent too...

so far the left has been incredibly lucky.....

no one has been raped and murdered....yet (as far as we know)

what will you say when these good people finally get pissed with these degenerates, and the body count starts mounting, as folks decide to protect themselves?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:27 pm

What does this have to do with refugees?

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:31 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I don't propose that anyone stop trying to eliminate crime, Vic. Here you go again, dancing right up to the edge of accusing me of endorsing violence.

no actually I dont see you endorsing violence, in fact I actually see the opposite...some one so soft in the head that they would stand there whilst death and mayhem occur around them....all the while chanting a peace prayer...and "hopeing" Jeepers ...i dont accuse you...I PITY you fgs..

My stance on the refugee crisis should be clear by now, I'm not going to play this game where you get to goad me into wasting my time repeating it over and over again.

I'll never say that the majority of innocent, desperate refugees should have been turned away because of the unavoidable fact that every large group of people is going to include criminals. I'll never favor profiling either, and I think that's what a lot of people are really pushing for. They want governments to start treating every individual Muslim as though they might be strapped up in a suicide vest, and you know how abhorrent I find that idea.

So you are happy then for other people to carry the risk of your ideology?

what if they decide not to...

perhaps they ARE deciding not to, which is why the left are such a good recruiter for the right...

personally I find the idea that "its tough luck, but necessary" on the victims and "we will try to do better " policing wise quite abhorrent too...

so far the left has been incredibly lucky.....

no one has been raped and murdered....yet (as far as we know)

what will you say when these good people finally get pissed with these degenerates, and the body count starts mounting, as folks decide to protect themselves?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:37 pm

Every ideology, every policy proposal, every idea carries a risk. You're not going to eliminate crime or violence by changing any policy.

Which is worse -- the humanitarian crisis that ISIS has caused across the Middle East, or the here-and-there crimes that have been committed by refugees in Europe?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:42 pm

Um, isn't this about a crime which was committed against a Muslim by people who assumed he was a member of ISIS?

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Every ideology, every policy proposal, every idea carries a risk. You're not going to eliminate crime or violence by changing any policy.

Which is worse -- the humanitarian crisis that ISIS has caused across the Middle East, or the here-and-there crimes that have been committed by refugees in Europe?

ask the girls who were attacked...

you make my point...

in the "grand scheme" of the left, the message is clear....

you (the individual) is expendable, you are worth less than a refugee

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:46 pm

and again...what will your reaction be when there is retaliation....

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:51 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Every ideology, every policy proposal, every idea carries a risk. You're not going to eliminate crime or violence by changing any policy.

Which is worse -- the humanitarian crisis that ISIS has caused across the Middle East, or the here-and-there crimes that have been committed by refugees in Europe?

ask the girls who were attacked...

you make my point...

in the "grand scheme" of the left, the message is clear....

you (the individual) is expendable, you are worth less than a refugee

I have nothing more to say to you if you're going to continue to ignore my points. As I've said, I see degrees of evil, and to me what ISIS was doing to these people to make them flee in the first place is a far greater evil than the crimes some are committing in Germany.

Let me put it to you this way -- there are two terrorist attacks on the same day, one killing 100 people and the other killing 1,000. Which was worse?

It's really that simple. The course of action which results in less loss of human life is the proper course of action.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:53 pm

so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:56 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ask the girls who were attacked...

you make my point...

in the "grand scheme" of the left, the message is clear....

you (the individual) is expendable, you are worth less than a refugee

I have nothing more to say to you if you're going to continue to ignore my points. As I've said, I see degrees of evil, and to me what ISIS was doing to these people to make them flee in the first place is a far greater evil than the crimes some are committing in Germany.

Let me put it to you this way -- there are two terrorist attacks on the same day, one killing 100 people and the other killing 1,000. Which was worse?

neither ...both are heinous crimes and should be impressively and robustly dealt with...and BOTH (assuming you mean in say germany) would indicate failure by the authorities AND of the policy

It's really that simple. The course of action which results in less loss of human life is the proper course of action.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:57 pm

Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

I had no idea people had faith and trust in me in the first place ... ? If that's true, I don't want it. You can have it.

By the way, my ideology has no method for creating angels out of human beings. I guess we should turn to your ideology of stripping the rights of human beings on the basis of the crimes other people we can lump them together with have committed.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:00 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ask the girls who were attacked...

you make my point...

in the "grand scheme" of the left, the message is clear....

you (the individual) is expendable, you are worth less than a refugee

I have nothing more to say to you if you're going to continue to ignore my points. As I've said, I see degrees of evil, and to me what ISIS was doing to these people to make them flee in the first place is a far greater evil than the crimes some are committing in Germany.

Let me put it to you this way -- there are two terrorist attacks on the same day, one killing 100 people and the other killing 1,000. Which was worse?

neither ...both are heinous crimes and should be impressively and robustly dealt with...and BOTH (assuming you mean in say germany) would indicate failure by the authorities AND of the policy

It's really that simple. The course of action which results in less loss of human life is the proper course of action.

Wrong. The attack in which 100 people died has fewer dead and fewer grieving survivors; it's objectively not as bad as the attack in which 1,000 people died.

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:00 pm

Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

And it's that kind of fear-mongering language that eventually leads to innocent white people being attacked by white nationalists, just becuase they defended non-White lives.

You see the same in Israel where Jews are being labelle as anti-Semitic just becuase they oppose the occupation.

And now we've seen the same in the US in the Trump rallies.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

I had no idea people had faith and trust in me in the first place ... ? If that's true, I don't want it. You can have it.

By the way, my ideology has no method for creating angels out of human beings. I guess we should turn to your ideology of stripping the rights of human beings on the basis of the crimes other people we can lump them together with have committed.

uhm....IF you read carefully, you will note that I have quite deviously ommited to actually define my "ideological" answer to this, since MY ideology isnt even on the same page as most here... Laughing

all I have done is poked holes in your (leftist) ideology...

you made a point on a differnt thread, suggesting I'm some sort of tentacled inhuman monster for putting objects before life (in some circumstances) which actually wasnt quite accurate....

I make the point that the left at least seems to be prepared to make objects out of the victims of these crimes, putting THEM as less value than refugees.

I also would be prepared to say that anyone one with half a brain could have forseen what would happen....given the society from which these people come, and knowing the value that that society puts on women (zero) and therfore the policy of unrestricted "open doors" was foolish in the extreme...

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:20 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

I had no idea people had faith and trust in me in the first place ... ? If that's true, I don't want it. You can have it.

By the way, my ideology has no method for creating angels out of human beings. I guess we should turn to your ideology of stripping the rights of human beings on the basis of the crimes other people we can lump them together with have committed.

uhm....IF you read carefully, you will note that I have quite deviously ommited to actually define my "ideological" answer to this, since MY ideology isnt even on the same page as most here...

all I have done is poked holes in your (leftist) ideology...

you made a point on a differnt thread, suggesting I'm some sort of tentacled inhuman monster for putting objects before life (in some circumstances) which actually wasnt quite accurate....

I make the point that the left at least seems to be prepared to make objects out of the victims of these crimes, putting THEM as less value than refugees.

I also would be prepared to say that anyone one with half a brain could have forseen what would happen....given the society from which these people come, and knowing the value that that society puts on women (zero) and therfore the policy of unrestricted "open doors" was foolish in the extreme...

Do you put more value on the European victims than the Middle Eastern ones?

You seem to be saying that the evils ISIS was carrying out in Syria and Iraq -- killing tens of thousands of civilians -- pale in comparison to the tragedy of the attacks in Cologne.

Genocide is worse than organized rape hunts. Sorry to put it so bluntly, and of course I don't mean organized rape hunts are in any way tolerable, but genocide is worse.

by veya_victaous Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:21 pm

Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

well I am not ben but If i were leader i would be preetty shitty leader to not expect some retaliation Suspect

Change always meets resistance, progess always meets conservatives.
one does no impelement a program of progress without having contigengy for the less than ideal outcomes.

leaders of democracies need to be aware they will always have internal oppostion.
leaders shoud be striving for progress towards the ideals they represent

Germany is actually pretty easy to solve. Charge them, make a very public show of charging anyone for any sexual harassment that warrants a charge.
Ensure everyone, local and refugee a like, that the LAWS will be enforced and there will be no exceptions for race, colour or creed.
Make a public campaign telling women to report if they experience sexual harassment, make sure the refugees see this campaign and are aware that there will be a great effort to ensure they intergrate into the acceptable norms for for gender equality.

everyone must accept equality or the one the doesn't accept it is the first to lose it. Wink

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:24 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

Wrong. The attack in which 100 people died has fewer dead and fewer grieving survivors; it's objectively not as bad as the attack in which 1,000 people died.

ahh...so its merely a numbers game is it....

ask the individual greiving survivor...

are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you would say to the survivors of the smaller attack that they are "objectively" less important than the survivours of the greater???

that THEIT state is "not as bad" ???

seriously??????????????????????????

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:26 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

well I am not ben but If i were leader i would be preetty shitty leader to not expect some retaliation

Change always meets resistance, progess always meets conservatives.
one does no impelement a program of progress without having contigengy for the less than ideal outcomes.

leaders of democracies need to be aware they will always have internal oppostion.
leaders shoud be striving for progress towards the ideals they represent

Germany is actually pretty easy to solve. Charge them, make a very public show of charging anyone for any sexual harassment that warrants a charge.
Ensure everyone, local and refugee a like, that the LAWS will be enforced and there will be no exceptions for race, colour or creed.
Make a public campaign telling women to report if they experience sexual harassment, make sure the refugees see this campaign and are aware that there will be a great effort to ensure they intergrate into the acceptable norms for for gender equality.

everyone must accept equality or the one the doesn't accept it is the first to lose it.

And of course, there will be people who say that arresting the Cologne attackers is racist, etc. These people are to be ignored, obviously, and justice carried out whether some people get offended or not.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:27 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Wrong. The attack in which 100 people died has fewer dead and fewer grieving survivors; it's objectively not as bad as the attack in which 1,000 people died.

ahh...so its merely a numbers game is it....

ask the individual greiving survivor...

are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you would say to the survivors of the smaller attack that they are "objectively" less important than the survivours of the greater???

that THEIT state is "not as bad" ???

seriously??????????????????????????

Justice is never unimportant, of course. But when you're a leader you often have to make choices that you know will create trouble regardless of what you do. In that case, the proper course of action is whichever one leads to less loss of life and fewer victims.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:28 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:so when retaliation/retribution comes. I trust you will stand silent, since that will be the final signal that your ideology hasnt worked and that the people affected by it have lost all faith and trust in you???

And it's that kind of fear-mongering language that eventually leads to innocent white people being attacked by white nationalists, just becuase they defended non-White lives.

You see the same in Israel where Jews are being labelle as anti-Semitic just becuase they oppose the occupation.

And now we've seen the same in the US in the Trump rallies.

Its not fear mongeriong fuzzy...its knowing people (in the collective sense) sooner or later one of these guys is going to get stabbed or such....and it might not even be a "guilty one"

OR and I think you would agree,much worse, the "retailation" could be against the "system" and you end up with a far right dominated government.... pale

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:37 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

ahh...so its merely a numbers game is it....

ask the individual greiving survivor...

are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you would say to the survivors of the smaller attack that they are "objectively" less important than the survivours of the greater???

that THEIT state is "not as bad" ???

seriously??????????????????????????

Justice is never unimportant, of course. But when you're a leader you often have to make choices that you know will create trouble regardless of what you do. In that case, the proper course of action is whichever one leads to less loss of life and fewer victims.

mmmm...you aint going to wriggle out of THIS facet so easily Ben

you were not talking in tis instance of a choice between policies

you were making a point based on two "occurences" ie 2 terrorist attacks ...nothing to do with policy

and you make the point that the greater one is "objectively worse than the other"
nothing to do with making a policy decision or the consequences therof...

therfore my point still stands....

would you REALLY tell the individual from the smaller attack that they are "objectively" of less worth than the ones from the greater...?

It may have just been a bad example, and not what you meant to convey...

but it is this kind of thinking that is the death of leftist policy...

it works fine in principle...but NOT at the level of the individual....and leads to damage to social cohesion...

Lets face it If YOU were that "survivor" from the lesser attack, what would YOUR view of the politician who so demeaned and belittled your situation???

me I'd do ANYTHING to get him sunk...including even voting for a party I could not otherwise stomach....

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:45 pm

Yes, it's like someone saying - oh well, your loved one was blown up, but hey, it doesn't matter because it was only one person.

by Victorismyhero Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:46 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

well I am not ben but If i were leader i would be preetty shitty leader to not expect some retaliation

yes, BUT...what would you do about it...cos you are then damned if you do and damned if you dont...either way
if you "attack" (as it would be seen) those who feel they are rightly retaliating...you are a racist anti white
and you DONT you are a racist anti Muslim

you could find yourself on the wrong side of the voteing statistics...and another hitler in power...quite easily...people(collectively) can switch ideologies pretty damn quick if they feel their govt isnt protecting them...or worse still the perception arises that their govt is "siding with the enemy"

the answer is of course that this issue has been a massive clusterfuck by merkel...I think she has misjudged , seriously, the german public....

knee jerk "sympathy" politics is NEVER a sound basis for governance, no matter how good the cause or how desperate the situation

Change always meets resistance, progess always meets conservatives.
one does no impelement a program of progress without having contigengy for the less than ideal outcomes.

which merkel failed to do

leaders of democracies need to be aware they will always have internal oppostion.
leaders shoud be striving for progress towards the ideals they represent

Germany is actually pretty easy to solve. Charge them, make a very public show of charging anyone for any sexual harassment that warrants a charge.
Ensure everyone, local and refugee a like, that the LAWS will be enforced and there will be no exceptions for race, colour or creed.
Make a public campaign telling women to report if they experience sexual harassment, make sure the refugees see this campaign and are aware that there will be a great effort to ensure they intergrate into the acceptable norms for for gender equality.

everyone must accept equality or the one the doesn't accept it is the first to lose it.

And of course, there will be people who say that arresting the Cologne attackers is racist, etc. These people are to be ignored, obviously, and justice carried out whether some people get offended or not.

by veya_victaous Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:10 pm

I would have acted before the retaliation..

there never would have been a cover up there would have been the standard application of SECULAR laws they don't get bent for ANY race or religion.

they are wishy washy leaders in europe they want to hold on to old nationalistic ideals to keep the votes of primative peasents. But those are the Very things that hold Europe back.

the West is not great because of the Christian Pre Secular aspects of western soceity(most of which we have purged) All the greatness comes from the seperation of church and state and the Secular institutions and ideals.. equality of opportunity, the ideal that all men and women can be born with the potential to succeed.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:13 pm

veya_victaous wrote:I would have acted before the retaliation..

there never would have been a cover up there would have been the standard application of SECULAR laws they don't get bent for ANY race or religion.

they are wishy washy leaders in europe they want to hold on to old nationalistic ideals to keep the votes of primative peasents. But those are the Very things that hold Europe back.

the West is not great because of the Christian Pre Secular aspects of western soceity(most of which we have purged) All the greatness comes from the seperation of church and state and the Secular institutions and ideals.. equality of opportunity, the ideal that all men and women can be born with the potential to succeed.

More envy. You really need to try to get rid of your bitterness.

by veya_victaous Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:37 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:I would have acted before the retaliation..

there never would have been a cover up there would have been the standard application of SECULAR laws they don't get bent for ANY race or religion.

they are wishy washy leaders in europe they want to hold on to old nationalistic ideals to keep the votes of primative peasents. But those are the Very things that hold Europe back.

the West is not great because of the Christian Pre Secular aspects of western soceity(most of which we have purged) All the greatness comes from the seperation of church and state and the Secular institutions and ideals.. equality of opportunity, the ideal that all men and women can be born with the potential to succeed.

More envy. You really need to try to get rid of your bitterness.

I'm not bitter why would i be bitter, i do not live is a society struggling with the realities of the modern world
I live in a Very successful Multicultural society that Doesn't have these issues since we are a kind and capable peoples that know how to integrate other cultures into our own secular one.

"Frustrated by the failure of the old world to keep pace with the new" yeah that true you guys are struggling with really simple things it is like watching and adult unable to tie their own shoe laces.. and as amusing as it is to watch you trip and fall over your own feet in tangles made by yourselves. the problem is the middle east doesn't even have shoes, like they are hopping around trying to get the sock on... and Your awkwardly comedic antics looks likely to have the 2 of you stumble and crash into each other and make a great big mess.
that the rest of us will have to clean up Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:41 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

More envy. You really need to try to get rid of your bitterness.

I'm not bitter why would i be bitter, i do not live is a society struggling with the realities of the modern world
I live in a Very successful Multicultural society that Doesn't have these issues since we are a kind and capable peoples that know how to integrate other cultures into our own secular one.

"Frustrated by the failure of the old world to keep pace with the new" yeah that true you guys are struggling with really simple things it is like watching and adult unable to tie their own shoe laces.. and as amusing as it is to watch you trip and fall over your own feet in tangles made by yourselves. the problem is the middle east doesn't even have shoes, like they are hopping around trying to get the sock on... and Your awkwardly comedic antics looks likely to have the 2 of you stumble and crash into each other and make a great big mess.
that the rest of us will have to clean up

You only see it that way through the haze of alcohol. New York police say man wearing traditional Muslim clothing was beaten as assailants chanted ‘ISIS’ 3489511464

New York police say man wearing traditional Muslim clothing was beaten as assailants chanted ‘ISIS’ 3489511464

When the effects wear off, you'll go back to crying about not being British. Poor Veya. Sad

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