International defense experts back IDF’s 2014 Gaza campaign

New report by High Level Military Group blasts UN commission, claims Israel set a standard no other army could match:

Armies of the world would be rendered far less effective if they were forced to operate under the same restrictions as the IDF during last summer’s Gaza campaign, a group of former military and defense leaders from nine countries claim in a new report released Friday. Following a months-long investigation into the 50-day conflict, the High Level Military Group — made up of retired generals and defense officials from Germany, Colombia, India, Spain, Australia, the United States, France, the United Kingdom and Italy — found that Israel not only abided by the laws of armed conflict, but far surpassed their requirements, despite damning reports by the UN and non-governmental organizations that accused the IDF of potential war crimes.

The group had already defended Israel’s actions in the Gaza Strip earlier this year, submitting their preliminary findings to the UN Human Rights Commission’s probe into the operation, but the group’s final 80-page report goes far beyond their initial assessment. “Our findings were diametrically opposed to the UN report,” Col. Richard Kemp, one of the document’s authors and the former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, told The Times of Israel on Thursday, blasting the lack of military expertise by the United Nations commission that investigated the conflict. “The UN report was done too quickly and was done by the wrong people.”

The HLMG, which includes, the former chairman of the NATO military committee, the former chief of staff of the Italian army, a former US ambassador-at-large on war crimes and the former director-general of the Indian Defense Intelligence Agency, was formed by the Friends of Israel Initiative, a UK group created in 2010 to fight an “unprecedented campaign of deligitimation against Israel.” The UN and NGO reports were investigated by human rights experts, and not military personnel who are most familiar with the laws of armed conflict. Without that expertise, the commissions investigating the 2014 Operation Protective Edge arrived at biased and inaccurate conclusions, Kemp said.

The laws of armed conflict

A central issue in all of these reports is that of civilian casualties. One of the problems, the report found, was the UN accepted Hamas’s figures for combatant vs. civilian casualties, which put the ratio at close to 70% non-combatants of the 2,000 or so deaths, compared to the dramatically lower 50% that Israel claims. The HLMG found Hamas’s numbers to be rife with inconsistencies, such as the “inclusion of duplicate names, incorrect ages, combat-related deaths caused by Hamas or its affiliate organizations, such as in the case of misfired rockets, and deaths not related to the hostilities but classified as such.” More problematic, however, is that the UN and NGO reports were researched from a human rights standpoint and treated the concept of civilian deaths as inherently wrong, even when those incidents occurred under legally acceptable circumstances, Kemp said. “Human rights law was not the right set of laws to govern this, the laws of armed conflict are,” he added.

Commissions investigating the conflict should have looked to see that everything feasibly was done to avoid the deaths of non-combatants, not that casualties didn’t happen, as they inevitably will in wartime. That standard of zero civilian deaths is an impossible one, Kemp said. Nevertheless, the 11 former army and governmental officials found that Israel adopted a far higher level of restraint than other militaries, citing Israel’s now famous “knock on the roof” technique of dropping a non-explosive ordnance to alert residents that their building is about to be bombed, the telephone calls and leaflets dropped warning non-combatants to leave the scene of an impending attack and numerous examples of missions canceled due to potential non-combatant casualties. “That threshold isn’t something other nations could handle,” Kemp said. “We can’t call everyone in Iraq before a strike.” This standard, which is already beginning to be applied to other armies besides the IDF, is a hindrance to military expediency, Kemp argued. “You can’t achieve that aim and also be effective. It’s why we’re not being effective,” Kemp said, referring specifically to the current coalition campaign against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

Not only does that intense international scrutiny on every civilian death inherently hinder the IDF’s and other militaries’ ability to wage an effective war, it will also ironically endanger more citizens, as each civilian death can be perversely used by Hamas and other groups as a weapon on the public opinion “front,” Kemp claimed.

Anticipating war crimes, finding none

The group met with representatives throughout Israel’s defense and political structure, from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to enlisted soldiers who fought in Gaza, while gathering material for their report. Kemp, who also previously led the UK Joint Intelligence Committee’s international terrorism team, has defended Israeli military actions against Gaza before, testifying before the UN’s Goldstone commission on Israel’s 2008-2009 Operation Cast Lead. The rest of the group, however, had only brief or tangential connections with the IDF, and many came in to the group anticipating to find indications of Israeli crimes, Kemp said.  But the HLMG found practically none, laying the blame for the vast majority of civilian casualties — 50 percent of those killed in the conflict, according to some estimates — at the feet of Hamas instead, who they claim instituted a deliberate policy to cause as many Palestinian civilian deaths as possible in order to wage a PR war against Israel. The report lauded not only Israel’s aforementioned operational measures to avoid civilian casualties, but also its overall strategic and organizational structure, which required the constant involvement of Military Advocate General representatives to ensure that the laws of warfare and rules of engagement were respected.

In addition, the report noted that Israel tried multiple times to avoid and end the conflict through diplomatic means, only to be rebuffed by Hamas at every turn. As all members of the group were retired, they did not represent their home countries, and Kemp explained that the potential for backlash and threat to their professional reputations kept the group independent and objective. Though there was healthy discussion during the investigation, Kemp said, the group was united in its conclusions. “This wasn’t groupthink. If there was a person with a dissenting opinion, we would have heard about it,” he said.

Hamas PR: Censorship and manipulation

The report decries the terror organization’s use of human shields and confirms many of the allegations levied against Hamas, namely that they used hospitals, UN schools, ambulances and other “sensitive sites” in order to force Israel into compromising positions and bring about international condemnation against the Jewish state. In addition to the military aspects of last summer’s operation, the HLMG focused considerable attention on Hamas’s manipulation of the media, noting both censorship and “proactive fabrication” as tools in the terror group’s PR arsenal. Hamas at times forcibly prevented the media from taking and publishing photographs of wounded fighters, only allowing pictures of wounded civilians, the report found. Hamas would also “prepare” the scenes after Israeli strikes, removing weaponry and fighters, before allowing journalists into the area in order to make it appear as though only civilians were hit in the attacks.

The HLMG blamed not only the terror organization for perpetuating these acts of bullying and chicanery, but also the international media for not being more forthright about the clearly distorted and censored view of Gaza that they were reporting. Though some news outlets later admitted to the manipulations, the HLMG found, the damage was already done. The same, to an extent, can be said of the HLMG report. With reports by the UN, Amnesty International, Israel’s Breaking the Silence, Human Rights Watch and others, the High Level Military Group’s document may be too little too late.

In addition to their public release of the document, the group already has plans to discuss their findings with the US Congress, and members of the HLMG will also speak in their home countries. Though there are not yet official plans in the works, the group also hopes to present their findings to the UN, the International Criminal Court and other global bodies, Kemp said. While it was important to the former military and diplomatic leaders to defend what the group saw as Israel’s legal and legitimate actions in Gaza out of a moral or ethical obligation, the 11 men also saw it with a sense of self-preservation, as the world changes its expectations of how to fight against terror groups and other non-state actors.The 2014 Gaza conflict report is just the first in a wider study on modern warfare, Kemp said. “There will be a larger project about what can be done against this kind of insurgency.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/international-defense-experts-back-idfs-2014-gaza-campaign/

http://www.high-level-military-group.org/pdf/hlmg-assessment-2014-gaza-conflict.pdf








I mean its about as obvious as FIFA being exposed that the UN is as corrupt and not fit for purpose. I have no doubt oil money is what is rulling this body being as you have appointments of the likes of Saudi to the UN Human Rights council, which has to be one of the sickest jokes to date that the UN has made. The fact we have never seen any comparative  daily media attention to the 200,000 casulaties in Syrian and with Suadi killing 3 times as many combatants and civilins in Yemen, where even then no doubt these figures are suspect on the number of civillians or combatants. Its so obvious the media propganda camapign and how Hamas deliberately ensure civillians are killed, that is what drives absurd sympathy. The tactics of Hamas care nothing for the loss of civillian lives and the pathetic lefties are so afraid to condemn them, they think this will make them Muslims bashers which is blatantly stupid.

Then you have the openly antisemtic regressive lefties who back Hamas and its massive human rights abuses. They are the new modern nazi's channelling hate through a guise claiming its hate of zionism. Yet a 2 year old can see it is really racist hate against Israeli's that often extends to all Jews. People who claim and sing the song that denies the existance of Israel are also idiots to history. The Palestinian nationality was invented within the last decades solely to be in opposition to Israel. There was never a palestinian nation or nationality and the vast majority of the now Arabs living within the West Bank and Gaza like many modern day Israeli's are immgrants to the area, only a small proportion of Arabs and Israeli Jews and descended far longer. The regressive Nazi BDS creates pseudo history to even worse create a victim status to what are the agressive acts of Arab states on the formation of Israel. It is religious bull that makes Muslims believe they own a land based on them once conquering it themselves and through this conquering it has been ordained to them by some mythical non-existanat being.

I am so glad to see more and more are standing up to the bullshit promoted by the regressive lefts and those in the UN in the pocket of the Gulf states, who as seen can kill as they like with feeble protests from the UN Human rights commission. Its a no brainer to if a people want peace you will grasp peace and at every turn the Palestinians have thwarted any chance of peace and a home for the Palestinians. This is no surprise being as their is a nationalistic hate program against Jews in the Palestinian territories which is indoctrinated from toddlers into adulthood which is easily backed up by the fact 93 percent of palestinians are antisemitic. A people who wants peace do not aggressivelly continue to attack Israel as they have countless times. They do like other nations did and seek peace where Israel sceeded back territory to them, the Israeli's had won from being agressively attacked. There is no excuse why the palestinians refuse to seek peace and the only reason is they refuse based on a religiously based bullshit notion all of Israel belongs to them. They keep countless refugees in limbo who have no intention of becoming Israeli citizens and they expect israel to take them in from a war they never started. Now you tell me, what nation would accept that?

I mean the regressive Nazi BDS make the most absurd arguments, claiming a minority people cannot form their own nation, even though nearly every created nation in the 20th century up to today was formed from a minority people within the boundaries of a larger majority nation and country. This includes the many Arab nations formed in the 20th century. I mean do you see them calling for the return of 16 million German refigees and their descedents which were be by today 3 times this number at around 45-55 million be allowed go back to lands they lost from an aggressive war that German started. Can you imagine what would happen to Poland and Slovakia with such numbers, the countries would be very shortly ceeded to form a Greater Germany again.  As why would these people wish to be Polish or Slovakian? So why are not the left claiming many countries are in occupation of what was formerly German lands, which is far removed from the Palestinian claim to former Ottoman lands? To top this off the arguments the lefts use would place Nazi Germany not as the aggressor of WW2, but the victim foir invading Poland and ultimately losing. Not only that the Germans also suffered real attrocities on a massive scale that makes the claims of the Palestinians pathetic in comparrison.

Both the Russians and Polish forces serving with the Red Army when they Invaded Germany carried out countless attrocities. Well over a million German women and girls were raped, many Germans were shot out of hand. Did we see for years afterwards Germans, carrying out suicide bombings and terrorist attacks in the form of stabbing, shootings, bombings, car rammings in Poland and Russia? No. Mainly because they understood that their aggresive attacks and also atrocities were wrong. Yet when the Arabs attacked the newly created Israel they were vowing to wipe them out and this is all easily brushed aside by the regessive BDS Nazi's. That is what is argued in regards to claiming victim status to the newly created nationality palestinian people who attacked Israel and lost. Except unlike those who defeated Germany, with Israel they are actually willing and have given back land in order to have peace as they have done so with other Arab nations. So this is why I am vocal on this subject because it has been the biggest scam in history and propaganda bullshit ever portrayed and pomoted by the regressive lefty Nazi's and Islamist Muslim groups, to invent a pseudo history for one sole purpose.


Antisemitism

Hey Didge. You posted this piece of propaganda about 6 months ago and it got ripped then and now here you are having another go lol.

Never mind. you've had about 6 months to come up with the rules of engagement so you can post them up now.

Here's the thread from 6 months ago lol

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10175-international-high-level-military-group-commends-israel-defense-force-s-scrupulous-adherence-to-laws

His second link is by 'Friends of Israel Initiative' lol

Irn Bru wrote:Hey Didge. You posted this piece of propaganda about 6 months ago and it got ripped then and now here you are having another go lol.

Never mind. you've had about 6 months to come up with the rules of engagement so you can post them up now.

Here's the thread from 6 months ago lol

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10175-international-high-level-military-group-commends-israel-defense-force-s-scrupulous-adherence-to-laws

Wrong this is a new report, so you are again in error and shows you did not even read the report did you which is odd when you keep going onto me about such things.

Which shows you cannot understand that this is laws on the rules of engagement.

This is new and it did not get ripped apart they have ripped apart the claims made based on human rights which fails to understand the laws governing the rules of engagement.

” More problematic, however, is that the UN and NGO reports were researched from a human rights standpoint and treated the concept of civilian deaths as inherently wrong, even when those incidents occurred under legally acceptable circumstances, Kemp said. “Human rights law was not the right set of laws to govern this, the laws of armed conflict are,” he added.

So what espect qualifications Irn do you have on understanding the laws governing armed conflcit, to then claim this new report is debunk by a poor link which was rebuked on the link six months ago itself as it is based on human rights failing to understand the laws of armed conflict.

They are experts and have the right to show some wet left clueless Hamas terrorist supporter does not know what he is talking about

Tell me Irn, what warnings do Saudi give to Yemen civillians when using air strikes?
What about Russia in Syria?
What about Iran against the islamic state?


Like I say you and others do not hold other nations to the same standard that you do of Israel where they go and exceed methods to warn civillians of attacks

One would then question the motives behind such a hate of israel and ckearly one could deduce antisemitism, if you do not hold all nations to the same standards in war. What this shows is if you place to many restrictions on conflict you then allow for groups who have no care of human life to then use human shields without any reprecussions and not army can fight a conflict with its hand tied behind its back

Now what bomb shelters are there for civillians in Gaza?

None

Zero

Hamas uses human shields, which is a war crime and vastly increases the possibility oif human casulties

Willing human shields become willing participanat and lose their status, where again Hamas demands and plays off martydom to make Muslims feel guilty to remian.

Hamas uses humans to protect weapons.

Hamas has tunnels they deny civillians access to whilst they are safe from attack

Every rocket attack by Hamas is an indiscrminate attack and thus a war crime.

When you fail to hold other nations to the same standards as israel and they actually exceed what is reuired of them, not poor link which fails to understand the laws governing the rules of engagement denbunks anything.

This is why this new report will easily show the claims and charges against israel are false.
The only one aspect I believe this report is wrong on is on directive hannibal

That's just the final publication from the draft report back in June with some extra bits added probably because they realised that no-one with any sense would take seriously what that group would say.

Got the Rules of Engagement yet?

Irn Bru wrote:That's just the final publication from the draft report back in June with some extra bits added probably because they realised that no-one with any sense would take seriously what that group would say.

Got the Rules of Engagement yet?

Its no final publication, you are again in error.

So you admit you have no idea on the rules of engagement then?

How about also answering all my countless points you avoided.

When you have done that, we shall coninue.

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:That's just the final publication from the draft report back in June with some extra bits added probably because they realised that no-one with any sense would take seriously what that group would say.

Got the Rules of Engagement yet?

Its no final publication, you are again in error.

So you admit you have no idea on the rules of engagement then?

How about also answering all my countless points you avoided.

When you have done that, we shall coninue.

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

It is the final publication and I see lots of all the same words pepered all over it. Same group same propaganda.

I have no idea what the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement are and you don't seem to either beccause you can't even provide a link to them so that I can read them.

Do that and we shall continue.

Irn Bru wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


Its no final publication, you are again in error.

So you admit you have no idea on the rules of engagement then?

How about also answering all my countless points you avoided.

When you have done that, we shall coninue.

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

It is the final publication and I see lots of all the same words pepered all over it. Same group same propaganda.

I have no idea what the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement are and you don't seem to either beccause you can't even provide a link to them so that I can read them.

Do that and we shall continue.

So no answer to my questions again, whay is that.

Am, I going to expose the foruth person tonight?
Who wants to lay bets?

He has no idea on the laws of armed conflict and jumps in as he always does claiming he knows best.

So why did he avoid the fundemental question?

So you have no idea on law, that leaves you not able to say on any aspect on armed conflicts.

Which leaves only this

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


Its no final publication, you are again in error.

So you admit you have no idea on the rules of engagement then?

How about also answering all my countless points you avoided.

When you have done that, we shall coninue.

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

It is the final publication and I see lots of all the same words pepered all over it. Same group same propaganda.

I have no idea what the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement are and you don't seem to either beccause you can't even provide a link to them so that I can read them.

Do that and we shall continue.

So no answer to my questions again, whay is that.

Am, I going to expose the foruth person tonight?
Who wants to lay bets?

He has no idea on the laws of armed conflict and jumps in as he always does claiming he knows best.

So why did he avoid the fundemental question?

So you have no idea on law, that leaves you not able to say on any aspect on armed conflicts.

Which leaves only this

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

I asked you for the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement so that I could read them because you wanted my opinion on them. It's obvious you don't have them.

Exp[ose the fourth person - what's that all about?

Irn Bru wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


So no answer to my questions again, whay is that.

Am, I going to expose the foruth person tonight?
Who wants to lay bets?

He has no idea on the laws of armed conflict and jumps in as he always does claiming he knows best.

So why did he avoid the fundemental question?

So you have no idea on law, that leaves you not able to say on any aspect on armed conflicts.

Which leaves only this

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

I asked you for the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement so that I could read them because you wanted my opinion on them. It's obvious you don't have them.

Exp[ose the fourth person - what's that all about?

Look it up yourself, I know it, so why do you not know it if you think they do wrong by the laws of engagement?

So again, its you that jumped in saying they were wrong, you have to show their rules of engagement conflict with the armed laws of engaement.
Y


 So again why do you avoid the question


What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


So no answer to my questions again, whay is that.

Am, I going to expose the foruth person tonight?
Who wants to lay bets?

He has no idea on the laws of armed conflict and jumps in as he always does claiming he knows best.

So why did he avoid the fundemental question?

So you have no idea on law, that leaves you not able to say on any aspect on armed conflicts.

Which leaves only this

What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

I asked you for the ISRAELI Rules of Engagement so that I could read them because you wanted my opinion on them. It's obvious you don't have them.

Exp[ose the fourth person - what's that all about?

Look it up yourself, I know it, so why do you not know it if you think they do wrong by the laws of engagement?

So again, its you that jumped in saying they were wrong, you have to show their rules of engagement conflict with the armed laws of engaement.
Y


 So again why do you avoid the question


What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

lol You don't have them and you have never read them yourself yet you want me to comment on them.

Wonderful Didge - truly wonderful

That is what you call retreating with what he thinks is humour to defend him from being unable to answer.

Got to love the left, they always shy away from questions that if they answer them, makes them look a complete dick


Happy days

Richard The Lionheart wrote:That is what you call retreating with what he thinks is humour to defend him from being unable to answer.

Got to love the left, they always shy away from questions that if they answer them, makes them look a complete dick


Happy days

Just come up with the R of E for the IDF and I'll comment on them just like you asked me to.

Not an unreasonable request is it?

I do not have to do anything for you Irn when if as seen you have not the first clue what you are talkiing about.

You claim they are wrong.

Onus on you.

Why you think I have to post up anything for you that you have to defend your stance is not only stupid but shows you are doing anything to avoidn answring my first questions to you.

If you think they are wrong post your evidence.

Also stop avoiding my questions which we know will make your argument fall flat in about 2 seconds.

Last chance
What means do Iran, Saudi, Russia use to warn civillians, in the conflicts they are presently involved in.??

Lets start with that

       

Still not got the Rules of Engagement that you asked me to comment on Didge.

Oh dear

Wriggle wriggle wriggle.

And what was this all about.

Expose the fourth person - what's that all about?

Yes oh dear indeed.
You claim this report has been debunked and ask me to post up what you need to understand and know about.
Its not only hilarious, but shows up the fact you know very little of which I asked you from, the very start 3 simple questions which as per usual you avoid. If you do not know or understand the laws governing this, then clearly you have no idea that this report has been debunked at all. It shows youa re like we have always though a blatnat idiot.

Now if you do not understand the laws of armed conflict, then you need to educate yourself, where in fact I have posted some of these already on another thread in regards to civillians.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t12767-israeli-officer-detained-in-london-for-gaza-war-crimes#250819


Now considering I asled you the questions first and the fact you keep avoiding this, if you fail to answer again this time, all we see you are nothing more as already has been exposed of a pathetic terrorist supporting low life quisling.


So again once last chance.

Tell me Irn, what warnings do Saudi give to Yemen civillians when using air strikes?
What about Russia in Syria?
What about Iran against the islamic state?