The Dalai Lama on Praying After Terror Attacks: “It Is Illogical. God Would Say, Solve It Yourself”

We cannot solve this problem only through prayers. I am a Buddhist and I believe in praying. But humans have created this problem, and now we are asking God to solve it. It is illogical. God would say, solve it yourself because you created it in the first place.
We need a systematic approach to foster humanistic values, of oneness and harmony. If we start doing it now, there is hope that this century will be different from the previous one. It is in everybody’s interest. So let us work for peace within our families and society, and not expect help from God, Buddha or the governments.

Raggamuffin wrote:Does he even believe in God?

I think that prayers aren't necessarily to ask God to solve the problem, it's to ask to be given strength to get through the bad times, and also to pray for the souls of the people who were killed.

Didge wrote:Prayer maybe be of help in proving comfort but does anyone receive what is being asked?

I mean how many millions of children are prayed for and clearly those prayers go unanswered?

I think science will clearly thus show the fact that such prayers are ineffective

They thus mislead people.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:Prayer maybe be of help in proving comfort but does anyone receive what is being asked?

I mean how many millions of children are prayed for and clearly those prayers go unanswered?

I think science will clearly thus show the fact that such prayers are ineffective

They thus mislead people.

If someone prays for strength and peace of mind, only they can tell you if they were given that. To pray for something practical to happen is a different matter.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone prays for strength and peace of mind, only they can tell you if they were given that. To pray for something practical to happen is a different matter.

Then it is psychological, nothing more for strengh and peace of mind as all you are doing is providing self encouragement.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Then it is psychological, nothing more for strengh and peace of mind as all you are doing is providing self encouragement.

Not if you believe in God and believe that he has answered your prayers.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Not if you believe in God and believe that he has answered your prayers.

Can you prove a myth has answered your prayers?

No

Then its psychological

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:



Can you prove a myth has answered your prayers?

No

Then its psychological

People with faith won't care what you think. I certainly don't. If you don't believe, that's up to you, but trying to convince others that they shouldn't is a waste of your time.

I'd rather discuss the Dalai Lama and the ongoing Dorje Shugden controversy. Buddhism is not immune from accusations of extremism, oppression of faith, and sectarian squabbles.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

People with faith won't care what you think. I certainly don't. If you don't believe, that's up to you, but trying to convince others that they shouldn't is a waste of your time.

I'd rather discuss the Dalai Lama and the ongoing Dorje Shugden controversy. Buddhism is not immune from accusations of extremism, oppression of faith, and sectarian squabbles.

Well considering I used to be a believer and thus once wasted my time on prayers, knowing that nobody is listening to them and the fact countless people prayer for help of others and they fall on deaf ears. Am I expected to not speak my views on this because you have zero evidence to back your claims that to you they do?
Never claimed Bhuddism is not immune to extremism, where we have seen suicide attacks before namely in WW2 with the Japanese

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Well considering I used to be a believer and thus once wasted my time on prayers, knowing that nobody is listening to them and the fact countless people prayer for help of others and they fall on deaf ears. Am I expected to not speak my views on this because you have zero evidence to back your claims that to you they do?
Never claimed Bhuddism is not immune to extremism, where we have seen suicide attacks before namely in WW2 with the Japanese

I don't need your kind of "evidence". Just leave people alone and stop trying to bully them into convincing you of something you don't even want to be convinced of.

Eilzel wrote:It is honest of him. He is basically admitting you shouldn't pray for anything that can be visibly measured. Praying for someone's life, to get better, for an end to war, for rain, for food etc- waste of time.

Pray for peace of mind- sure, god can do that.

So all in all, not worth the effort lol

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't need your kind of "evidence". Just leave people alone and stop trying to bully them into convincing you of something you don't even want to be convinced of.

Where have a I bullied you by having a debate over something that has no evidence?
If you do not like what people say in their views, then why did you engage in a debate that you might not like the answers to?
That is not bullying and if you think it is I suggest you report this and see for yourself that not one moderator would agree with you.
So no victim card attempt is going to work here and if you attempt to derail the thread again with false accusations I shall report you, when this was a decent discussion

You have been warned

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:



Where have a I bullied you by having a debate over something that has no evidence?
If you do not like what people say in their views, then why did you engage in a debate that you might not like the answers to?
That is not bullying and if you think it is I suggest you report this and see for yourself that not one moderator would agree with you.
So no victim card attempt is going to work here and if you attempt to derail the thread again with false accusations I shall report you, when this was a decent discussion

You have been warned

Sod off with your stupid warnings - stupid man.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sod off with your stupid warnings - stupid man.

Reported

Eilzel wrote:It is honest of him. He is basically admitting you shouldn't pray for anything that can be visibly measured. Praying for someone's life, to get better, for an end to war, for rain, for food etc- waste of time.

Pray for peace of mind- sure, god can do that.

So all in all, not worth the effort lol

Didge wrote:Prayer maybe be of help in proving comfort but does anyone receive what is being asked?

I mean how many millions of children are prayed for and clearly those prayers go unanswered?

I think science will clearly thus show the fact that such prayers are ineffective

They thus mislead people.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:Prayer maybe be of help in proving comfort but does anyone receive what is being asked?

I mean how many millions of children are prayed for and clearly those prayers go unanswered?

I think science will clearly thus show the fact that such prayers are ineffective

They thus mislead people.

Actually science experiments have shown prayer is a powerful motivator, the fruit of which is what you asked for or better.

People like you have the petulant child attitude that daddy or God didn't give me what I want, so now i have no daddy or God.

Poor baby.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Actually science experiments have shown prayer is a powerful motivator, the fruit of which is what you asked for or better.

People like you have the petulant child attitude that daddy or God didn't give me what I want, so now i have no daddy or God.

Poor baby.

It is nothing more than a self help, as the person is convincing themselves they are being listened to and provided with strengh.
You can have this same effect from many things

My father is dead, he was religious and that is now you again bringing my father into a debate making the most immature point because somebody differs in their view to you. I find that sad really and if this is what religious teaching teaches you, then like I say, that it clearly does not allow people to mature.
As its already been reported, and you have now done this multiple times, you clearly keep ignoring the rules, just sums up your immaturity

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


It is nothing more than a self help, as the person is convincing themselves they are being listened to and provided with strengh.
You can have this same effect from many things

My father is dead, he was religious and that is now you again bringing my father into a debate making the most immature point because somebody differs in their view to you. I find that sad really and if this is what religious teaching teaches you, then like I say, that it clearly does not allow people to mature.
As its already been reported, and you have now done this multiple times, you clearly keep ignoring the rules, just sums up your immaturity

That's so cheap,Didge. And a clear sign you're wound up.

I didn't mean to insult your dad and was using it as an example of childish petulance. But if you're going to be a baby about it, go ahead and report me. You clearly care too much.

And if Eddie or any other Admin takes it the way you're taking it, I fully expect to get banned. I have better things to do anyway.

Raggamuffin wrote:This is just another thread for Didge to complain that God doesn't exist, isn't it? He's not actually interested in anything the Dalai Lama said.

Let's discuss the alleged banning of Dorje Shugden instead. There were protests this year when the DL visited - it's quite interesting.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/13/dalai-lama-uk-visit-extremist-protests

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

That's so cheap,Didge. And a clear sign you're wound up.

I didn't mean to insult your dad and was using it as an example of childish petulance. But if you're going to be a baby about it, go ahead and report me. You clearly care too much.

And if Eddie or any other Admin takes it the way you're taking it, I fully expect to get banned. I have better things to do anyway.

He's already reported me apparently.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


It is nothing more than a self help, as the person is convincing themselves they are being listened to and provided with strengh.
You can have this same effect from many things

My father is dead, he was religious and that is now you again bringing my father into a debate making the most immature point because somebody differs in their view to you. I find that sad really and if this is what religious teaching teaches you, then like I say, that it clearly does not allow people to mature.
As its already been reported, and you have now done this multiple times, you clearly keep ignoring the rules, just sums up your immaturity

That's so cheap,Didge. And a clear sign you're wound up.

I didn't mean to insult your dad and was using it as an example of childish petulance. But if you're going to be a baby about it, go ahead and report me. You clearly care too much.

And if Eddie or any other Admin takes it the way you're taking it, I fully expect to get banned. I have better things to do anyway.

This article was amended on 4 July 2015 to remove a reference to belief in evil spirits.

eddie wrote:I've read the thread and see no poster bullying another poster.
Please be careful what words you use against another poster; debate respectfully at all times

Thank you

Just leave people alone and stop trying to bully them into convincing you of something you don't even want to be convinced of.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

That's so cheap,Didge. And a clear sign you're wound up.

I didn't mean to insult your dad and was using it as an example of childish petulance. But if you're going to be a baby about it, go ahead and report me. You clearly care too much.

And if Eddie or any other Admin takes it the way you're taking it, I fully expect to get banned. I have better things to do anyway.

Zack when are you going to understand you do not wind me up.
I am just pointing out how childish it is for you to think if a person loses their dad or wakes up to the fact there is no god, that they do not feel insecure, maybe you do, but you are always bringing up refernece to family.
It is you more than anything showing your immaturity throughout.
Your last comment is the comment of someone clearly bothered to say such a thing

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

Zack when are you going to understand you do not wind me up.
I am just pointing out how childish it is for you to think if a person loses their dad or wakes up to the fact there is no god, that they do not feel insecure, maybe you do, but you are always bringing up refernece to family.
It is you more than anything showing your immaturity throughout.
Your last comment is the comment of someone clearly bothered to say such a thing

The point was, people like you throw your toys out of their pram if their prayers are not answered.

I don't give a flying fuck about your father, your loss or your insecurity.

eddie wrote:Prayer, if I ever pray, is supposed to be asking for the strength or compassion or empathy to deal with a situation, not an enquiry as to whether God can fix the situation.
Everyone knows this is what prayer is, surely?

eddie wrote:Prayer, if I ever pray, is supposed to be asking for the strength or compassion or empathy to deal with a situation, not an enquiry as to whether God can fix the situation.
Everyone knows this is what prayer is, surely?


You're asking for the tools, not the solution.

Didge wrote:

eddie wrote:Prayer, if I ever pray, is supposed to be asking for the strength or compassion or empathy to deal with a situation, not an enquiry as to whether God can fix the situation.
Everyone knows this is what prayer is, surely?


You're asking for the tools, not the solution.

Like I say though Eddie its more of a self help, the faith allows you to think something is out there.
So the strengh is really coming from yourself.

eddie wrote:

Didge wrote:

Like I say though Eddie its more of a self help, the faith allows you to think something is out there.
So the strengh is really coming from yourself.

Yes that's what some believe, and others believe it's a higher force.
It doesn't really matter though, as long as the end result is the same.

Didge wrote:

eddie wrote:

Yes that's what some believe, and others believe it's a higher force.
It doesn't really matter though, as long as the end result is the same.

As i said for self help it is beneficial, though I have seen people prayer to wish people better and see this fall on deaf ears.
On that aspect I think it can be very damaging to some people and have seen this have effect on people.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


As i said for self help it is beneficial, though I have seen people prayer to wish people better and see this fall on deaf ears.
On that aspect I think it can be very damaging to some people and have seen this have effect on people.

I think eddie summed it up nicely. Why can't you just accept that some people believe in God and others don't? Some get benefits from praying, and some don't?

Why are you constantly trying to get people to reject God? Are you that bitter?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think eddie summed it up nicely. Why can't you just accept that some people believe in God and others don't? Some get benefits from praying, and some don't?

Why are you constantly trying to get people to reject God? Are you that bitter?

Because just like you, I am entittled to my own views, so why can you not accept that?
It seems if people differ in views, it is you that is getting uptight about this not me.
Again at the end of the day prayers are just psychological and thus people just really helping themselves.
Whether you likr or dislike my views on this just shows yet again the insensitivities of those who are religious.

The Dalai Lama will make a special appearance at the Glastonbury festival on Sunday, but 150 miles away in central London 500 Buddhists of the Shugden community are planning to demonstrate against him over claims of religious persecution and human rights abuses.

The exiled Tibetan spiritual leader has been accused of “creating an atmosphere of hatred” towards members of the Shugden community, a small 300-year-old Buddhist sect that worships the Dorje Shugden deity.

The group is associated with the same Gelug branch of Buddhism as the Dalai Lama but tensions have risen over claims by the International Shugden Community (ISC) that Shugden Buddhists have been excluded and marginalised in exiled Tibetan communities, with examples of shops and medical practices refusing to serve or treat Shugden Buddhists.

However representatives of the Dalai Lama insist his words are advice to Buddhists and not dictats. A spokesman said examples of Shugden Buddhists being barred from entering shops are “actions of individuals” and are not associated with the Dalai Lama. “Some individuals may have put those posters up but His Holiness has not encouraged those practices, nor has he condoned them,” a spokesman said. “His Holiness cannot be responsible for actions of individual Tibetans.”

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Because just like you, I am entittled to my own views, so why can you not accept that?
It seems if people differ in views, it is you that is getting uptight about this not me.
Again at the end of the day prayers are just psychological and thus people just really helping themselves.
Whether you likr or dislike my views on this just shows yet again the insensitivities of those who are religious.

You should be honest and just admit that you started this thread as an excuse to have another pop at people who believe in God. They don't agree with you - just accept that and stop nagging at them all the time.

Now then, about the Dalai Lama ...

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You should be honest and just admit that you started this thread as an excuse to have another pop at people who believe in God. They don't agree with you - just accept that and stop nagging at them all the time.

Now then, about the Dalai Lama ...

Now that is what I call being paranoid and agains being over sensitive because you are religious.

I started this thread because I thought his view was quite good

So stop poorly making false accusations and attempting to derail the thread, because nobody is buying it Rags

Stick to the topic

Thanks

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Now that is what I call being paranoid and agains being over sensitive because you are religious.

I started this thread because I thought his view was quite good

So stop poorly making false accusations and attempting to derail the thread, because nobody is buying it Rags

Stick to the topic

Thanks

Says the man who started a thread about the Dalai Lama and has barely mentioned him, but who has mentioned his own father - totally off topic.

Didge wrote:So in other words being as you failed to reply to my question, you clearly were again making another false accusation.

Oh well back to the debate

Didge wrote:I am just pointing out that you failed to back up your false accusation Rags and that is the second time on the thread, which proves it is you trying to derail the thread because you are being over sensitive.
The fact that near every post has been about prayers, proves it was you beeing very silly here.
Now be a good girl and carry on with the debate, as I am not going to stand for you doing this anymore as seen.

Now you know

Keep on topic and stop making false accusations

thanks

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:I am just pointing out that you failed to back up your false accusation Rags and that is the second time on the thread, which proves it is you trying to derail the thread because you are being over sensitive.
The fact that near every post has been about prayers, proves it was you beeing very silly here.
Now be a good girl and carry on with the debate, as I am not going to stand for you doing this anymore as seen.

Now you know

Keep on topic and stop making false accusations

thanks

Any comments about the Dalai Lama and the controversies surrounding him? It's really quite interesting if you could stop obsessing about your lack of faith for five seconds.