‘That’s what we do': Florida cops shoot and kill suicidal man after girlfriend phones for help

A28-year-old Florida man’s bereaved loved ones have called into question local authorities’ argument that he committed “suicide by cop” when they confronted him earlier this month, the Daily Beast reported.
“I think [police] should come in using other things,” Kaitlyn Lyons said regarding the shooting death of her boyfriend, Justin Way. “And I think they definitely need to figure out how to handle suicidal people.”Lyons contacted the police non-emergency dispatcher on May 11 after catching Way drinking and lying on their bed holding a large knife. She said Way, a recovering alcoholic, “had a setback” after losing his job but did not threaten her with it.

“The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die,” she said, adding that the two St. Johns County sheriff’s deputies who responded to her call, 32-year-old Kyle Braig and 26-year-old Jonas Carballosa, who were carrying assault rifles, looked like they “were going into war” when they entered the residence.Lyons said she intended for Way to be institutionalized under the provisions of the Florida Mental Health Act. According to the Florida Times-Union, the deputies instead shot Way in the stomach and abdomen.





http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/thats-what-we-do-florida-cops-shoot-and-kill-suicidal-man-after-girlfriend-phones-for-help/

most police do a very difficult job very well..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:most police do a very difficult job very well..

I would agree that a substantial amount of US Police do an excellent job. Whilst also a substantial amount of US Police are poor. Which can be anything from poor training. Poor prejudiced stereotypes attitudes. Trigger happy attitudes of shoot first ask questions later. More so if the suspect is black, unarmed. Where some are either making no threatening behavior or running away from the situation no doubt in fear of their own lives for just being black and suspected by a white Police officer. Where even more troubling is how such homicides caused by the Police are being omitted.

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government
As Obama calls for better data and Justice Department exposes Ferguson, trusted FBI count of ‘justifiable homicides’ omits 545 people per year in study

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-fbi-data-justifiable-homicides

Again I feel sorry for all the Good US Police out there doing a great job daily who are facing an uphill PR struggle to overcome these ever increasing poor Police actions carried out at an increasing alarming rate

I'm going to check this story out via other sources of course, but at first glance I feel very sad. I can see why they might shoot someone who was holding a large knife, but in context, it's a pity they didn't take a softer approach and try to talk him into letting go of it.

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm going to check this story out via other sources of course, but at first glance I feel very sad. I can see why they might shoot someone who was holding a large knife, but in context, it's a pity they didn't take a softer approach and try to talk him into letting go of it.

That I agree on Rags and its always difficult to tell who is telling the truth, accept one things stands out here for. They shot him the Stomach and abdomen. So maybe Victor or Nicko can help me out here? I understand US cops are taught to shoot to stop and not kill, but in reality this is a shoot to kill method, as its two shots to the body and one to the head. Why I ask victors and nicko's assistance here is it possible and viable like with someone with a knife, blunt instrument, to train to shoot for the legs and arms? I can understand faced with guns or close quarters hand held weaponry, for the use of two shots to the body and one to the head, which is just worded to stop as it sounds far better than to kill.

I would like to see the autopsy report to see the trajectory of the gun wounds. Again also why was there not blood everywhere if as they claim he charged at them. Now I understand it is no doubt far easier to aim and hit for a center target. If you have a split second to react facing a gun, but surely that time to react increases against a knife. As there will be a distance between both to start with between the Officers and suspects, (unless an officer of course allows someone to get to close). So surely a few seconds is time enough to aim for the limbs, than a split second when facing someone with a Gun. To be honest I have no idea and am just guessing, but would be interested on Victors and Nicko's view on this.

there was no need to shoot in any case

are those cops not fitted with stab vests etc
are they not trained with baton vs knife
why not mace him
in an enclosed room mace would be VERY effective

typical yankee cops....

ott
gung ho and cowards


as to IF they HAD to shoot

a low powered hand gun round to the right shoulder or upper arm would be sufficient to stop 99% of people

and even the old "bean bag" gun would have been sufficient

if you think about it ...they could even have used a net and tangled him


I'm afraid the Americans have a serious problem
their police no longer "protect and serve"

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:most police do a very difficult job very well..

I would agree that a substantial amount of US Police do an excellent job. Whilst also a substantial amount of US Police are poor. Which can be anything from poor training. Poor prejudiced stereotypes attitudes. Trigger happy attitudes of shoot first ask questions later. More so if the suspect is black, unarmed. Where some are either making no threatening behavior or running away from the situation no doubt in fear of their own lives for just being black and suspected by a white Police officer. Where even more troubling is how such homicides caused by the Police are being omitted.

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government
As Obama calls for better data and Justice Department exposes Ferguson, trusted FBI count of ‘justifiable homicides’ omits 545 people per year in study

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-fbi-data-justifiable-homicides

Again I feel sorry for all the Good US Police out there doing a great job daily who are facing an uphill PR struggle to overcome these ever increasing poor Police actions carried out at an increasing alarming rate

the unique dangers the us police face make it even more difficult a standard traffic stop could lead to a gun battle, in a house who knows if he had an arsenal in there..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


I would agree that a substantial amount of US Police do an excellent job. Whilst also a substantial amount of US Police are poor. Which can be anything from poor training. Poor prejudiced stereotypes attitudes. Trigger happy attitudes of shoot first ask questions later. More so if the suspect is black, unarmed. Where some are either making no threatening behavior or running away from the situation no doubt in fear of their own lives for just being black and suspected by a white Police officer. Where even more troubling is how such homicides caused by the Police are being omitted.

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government
As Obama calls for better data and Justice Department exposes Ferguson, trusted FBI count of ‘justifiable homicides’ omits 545 people per year in study

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-fbi-data-justifiable-homicides

Again I feel sorry for all the Good US Police out there doing a great job daily who are facing an uphill PR struggle to overcome these ever increasing poor Police actions carried out at an increasing alarming rate

the unique dangers the us police face make it even more difficult a standard traffic stop could lead to a gun battle, in a house who knows if he had an arsenal in there..

If he was lying on the bed though and not actually threatening anyone, it could have been handled differently.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


I would agree that a substantial amount of US Police do an excellent job. Whilst also a substantial amount of US Police are poor. Which can be anything from poor training. Poor prejudiced stereotypes attitudes. Trigger happy attitudes of shoot first ask questions later. More so if the suspect is black, unarmed. Where some are either making no threatening behavior or running away from the situation no doubt in fear of their own lives for just being black and suspected by a white Police officer. Where even more troubling is how such homicides caused by the Police are being omitted.

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government
As Obama calls for better data and Justice Department exposes Ferguson, trusted FBI count of ‘justifiable homicides’ omits 545 people per year in study

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-fbi-data-justifiable-homicides

Again I feel sorry for all the Good US Police out there doing a great job daily who are facing an uphill PR struggle to overcome these ever increasing poor Police actions carried out at an increasing alarming rate

the unique dangers the us police face make it even more difficult a standard traffic stop could lead to a gun battle, in a house who knows if he had an arsenal in there..

He was lying on a bed pissed threatening suicide, with the knife held to himself. They claimed he threatened them and refused to drop the knife, so they were not in any immediate threat of danger by their own words. Clearly there would have been time to aim to shoot at limbs of which I am asking Nicko and Victor for their expertise here, because clearly you yet again did not read the article.

darknessss wrote:there was no need to shoot in any case

are those cops not fitted with stab vests etc
are they not trained with baton vs knife
why not mace him
in an enclosed room mace would be VERY effective

typical yankee cops....

ott
gung ho and cowards


as to IF they HAD to shoot

a low powered hand gun round to the right shoulder or upper arm would be sufficient to stop 99% of people

and even the old "bean bag" gun would have been sufficient

if you think about it ...they could even have used a net and tangled him


I'm afraid the Americans have a serious problem
their police no longer "protect and serve"

Thanks Victor..


Catch you all later.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
the unique dangers the us police face make it even more difficult a standard traffic stop could lead to a gun battle, in a house who knows if he had an arsenal in there..

He was lying on a bed pissed threatening suicide, with the knife held to himself. They claimed he threatened them and refused to drop the knife, so they were not in any immediate threat of danger by their own words. Clearly there would have been time to aim to shoot at limbs of which I am asking Nicko and Victor for their expertise here, because clearly you yet again did not read the article.

I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

I feel very sorry for Kaitlyn Lyons. She called for help for her boyfriend, not because he was a threat to her, and instead of getting help he wound up dead.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

He was lying on a bed pissed threatening suicide, with the knife held to himself. They claimed he threatened them and refused to drop the knife, so they were not in any immediate threat of danger by their own words. Clearly there would have been time to aim to shoot at limbs of which I am asking Nicko and Victor for their expertise here, because clearly you yet again did not read the article.

I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

You neglect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Which means if they claimed to be threatened, of which is claimed so often and in this case, they can enact this.

Catch you later

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

You neglect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Which means if they claimed to be threatened, of which is claimed so often and in this case, they can enact this.

Catch you later

I would have thought the law assumes they are actually capable of causing actual harm or the threat is pointless, so we already have grey areas as usual, was he so pissed as to be helpless, he started on the bed did he stay there, was it drugs or alcohol, some drugs make people more dangerous, while alcohol tends to make you less coordinated and so it continues..
The police would know of reason events of shooting without provacation and ending in murder cases, I assume they were quite sure of their ground if they fired..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

He was lying on a bed pissed threatening suicide, with the knife held to himself. They claimed he threatened them and refused to drop the knife, so they were not in any immediate threat of danger by their own words. Clearly there would have been time to aim to shoot at limbs of which I am asking Nicko and Victor for their expertise here, because clearly you yet again did not read the article.

I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

I doubt it because he did have a weapon.

There needs to be more info on this to see where exactly he was when they shot him, and what he was likely to be doing. There's not much more info out there though.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

I doubt it because he did have a weapon.

There needs to be more info on this to see where exactly he was when they shot him, and what he was likely to be doing. There's not much more info out there though.

Hi Raggs, I had a scout about too and I cant see the story picked up anywhere else. So, with such little info its difficult to know the rights and wrongs.

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt it because he did have a weapon.

There needs to be more info on this to see where exactly he was when they shot him, and what he was likely to be doing. There's not much more info out there though.

Hi Raggs, I had a scout about too and I cant see the story picked up anywhere else. So, with such little info its difficult to know the rights and wrongs.

Hi Nems. I think it's a recent incident, so maybe there'll be more later.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Hi Raggs, I had a scout about too and I cant see the story picked up anywhere else. So, with such little info its difficult to know the rights and wrongs.

Hi Nems. I think it's a recent incident, so maybe there'll be more later.

Thanks Raggs

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt it because he did have a weapon.

There needs to be more info on this to see where exactly he was when they shot him, and what he was likely to be doing. There's not much more info out there though.

Hi Raggs, I had a scout about too and I cant see the story picked up anywhere else. So, with such little info its difficult to know the rights and wrongs.

Clearly Raw story was quicker off the mark than most, as it is now coming out in our mainstream media.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102260/Desperate-Florida-woman-asks-police-help-suicidal-boyfriend-tell-leave-room-shoot-dead.html


http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/580746/Justin-Way-suicidal-Kaitlyn-Christine-police-St-Augustine-Florida-US-suicide-by-cop

Also, most of the accounts on this story very much all stem back to this one.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/28/man-calls-suicide-line-police-kill-him.html

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
most police do a very difficult job very well..

PISS OFF with the simpering brown-tonguing bullshite, heavenly'...

FLORIDA police are the scum of the Earth; mostly beyond redemption..

HOW MANY times in the past have you made it abundantly clear that you think it's okay to kill all Muslims, layabouts, cripples, mentally ill, and suspected criminals, with no "due process" or proper reasoning ?

NOT VERY "Christian" of you, I must say..

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
I can't see any reason to shoot him if that is the case but I doubt it is as they would face clear murder charges..

I doubt it because he did have a weapon.

............

BULLDUST, Baggsy !!!

I HAVE plenty of [potential..] "weapons" around me most days of the week..

THAT doesn't give anyone the 'right' to kill me when I'm going about my legal and law-abiding pursuits !

ESPECIALLY NOT some half-brained poorly trained inbred fascist with a Messiah complex and a bad attitude..

Lone Wolf wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
most police do a very difficult job very well..

PISS OFF with the simpering brown-tonguing bullshite, heavenly'...

FLORIDA police are the scum of the Earth; mostly beyond redemption..

HOW MANY times in the past have you made it abundantly clear that you think it's okay to kill all Muslims, layabouts, cripples, mentally ill, and suspected criminals, with no "due process" or proper reasoning ?

NOT VERY "Christian" of you, I must say..    

all police seem bad to idiots who can't control themselves, normal people have nothing to fear from the police...

I'.m a bit late with my answer didge, I was taught to aim for the body "mass" i:e upper body with two rounds. We were always told shoot to kill not wound. but don't the Police there carry weapons to incapacitate?

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote:



PISS OFF with the simpering brown-tonguing bullshite, heavenly'...

FLORIDA police are the scum of the Earth; mostly beyond redemption..

HOW MANY times in the past have you made it abundantly clear that you think it's okay to kill all Muslims, layabouts, cripples, mentally ill, and suspected criminals, with no "due process" or proper reasoning ?

NOT VERY "Christian" of you, I must say..    

all police seem bad to idiots who can't control themselves, normal people have nothing to fear from the police...

Pretty stupid remark, daddy. Any facts to back that up?