Egyptian Cleric Khaled Al-Gindi: Atheists Should Not Be Allowed Access to Egyptian Media

http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4904.htm


So let me get this straight.
He thinks people can be atheist, but that they should be censured and prosecuted by the law based on some weird comparison of the defacing the nation Flag, and claims there is no such criminal offense for affronting their mythical deity Allah. Even though this is a complete falsehood, because the blasphemy law in Egypt has been used to do just that.

The Egyptian penal code criminalises "ridiculing or insulting a heavenly religion (Sunni Islam, Christianity and
Judaism) or those following it, or damaging national unity and social harmony.” This article is the basis of
numerous blasphemy cases, but is also used to persecute converts from Islam to Christianity on the grounds that they disparage Islam. In contrast, conversion to Islam is not punishable.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/bibliotheque/briefing/2014/140726/LDM_BRI%282014%29140726_REV2_EN.pdf

Here is the law on flags:

The interim government in Egypt has criminalized the desecration of the country’s flag to discourage people defacing it during street protests, the state news agency has confirmed. According to the MENA news agency on Sunday, the ruining of the Egyptian flag was now a crime while failure to stand during renditions of the national anthem would also be prosecuted under a new decree with a one year imprisonment or a fine of $4,200 for both offenses.


So not only is he talking Gobbledygook, but Atheists are the least protected minority in Egypt. The simple fact is, by believing in a faith system, (like Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc), that faith you believe in immediately insults all the other faiths, by the view their faith is right and the rest are wrong. So basically, various belief systems by the very nature of that belief system only being the right one, would view all other faiths wrong and is thus ridiculing them. Talk about a very subjective law and hence many of the minorities for years faced discrimination and imprisonment with the use of the blasphemy law. As seen its not okay to insult or ridicule the Abraham faiths, but non-belief and all other faiths are fair game. To top this off, this means also that nobody except Sunnis, can openly attempt convert someone, because this is openly preaching that your faith is claimed to be right and the other views as wrong. They then have you on blasphemy, trying to convert by claiming the other faith is wrong thus ridiculing. Hence why many minorities again have been charged with just this, accusing based off alleged insults to Islam. Again non belief and any other non-Sunni belief is thus not able. Of course you have to be caught doing this, which a convert is hardly likely to oust you after .


You then have the fact that a Sunni can openly convert anyone, as there is no law for apostasy on the other faiths, just Islam, where even under the news laws it is still possible for them to pass the death sentence. Anyone who is converted from Sunni Islam is then prosecuted for being an apostate. See section on Egypt below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam


So the law clearly already makes being an atheist in Egypt an utter nightmare, which shows how far better a secular society is, as it allows for all beliefs and non-beliefs. Egypt denies this right and criminalize any critical view of the Abrahamic faiths. To put this into perspective, if this forum was run from Egypt and we were all Egyptians, all the Atheists on here would have been imprisoned for Blasphemy. Any of the Christians that posted any of their beliefs here would be seen as openly ridiculing Islam and also imprisoned for blasphemy. In fact some of the atheists could get also prosecuted for being critical and deny the beliefs of Christianity and Judaism as well.

So then why is it like here with this example on the video, this man preaching for even stricter laws, (to ones that as seen already are very strict), fear anyone that has different beliefs or non-beliefs if you believed 100% in your faith?

The reason they fear, is because not only do they have doubt within their own faith, they fear most of all, that they might indeed be wrong..If you have no fear that you are wrong and your belief is thus 100%, there would even be no need of these laws and by the fact these laws exist, backs the view to deny people a choice to chose what to believe in. It imposes severe repercussions for being able to doubt or question that faith. That is a not a choice but clearly contradicts the view:

"There is no compulsion in religion"


To show how rough it is for atheists in Egypt and actually are being Targeted for their non-belief, proving the video to be bollocks:






(New York) – An Egyptian minor offenses court on January 10, 2015, sentenced a student accused of writing Facebook posts that insulted Islam to three years in prison. The sentence, one of several handed down on blasphemy charges in recent years, came amid a coordinated government crackdown on perceived atheists.

Authorities arrested the student, Karim Ashraf Mohamed al-Banna, with a group of other people at a café in the Beheira governate in November 2014, the Association for Freedom of Thought and Expression reported.

“Atheists are one of Egypt’s least-protected minorities, although the constitution ostensibly guarantees freedom of belief and expression,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director. “Egyptian authorities need to be guided by the constitution and stop persecuting people for atheism.”

Al-Banna’s sentencing is part of a wider government push to combat atheism and other forms of dissent. It came after police closed a so-called atheists café in downtown Cairo on December 14, and one of the country’s highest Sunni authorities issued a survey that purported to document what religious officials described as a worrying number of atheists in Egypt.

Ishak Ibrahim, a researcher for the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights (EIPR), told the Agence France Press (AFP) news agency that a local newspaper identified al-Banna as an atheist after his arrest, and that neighbors had subsequently harassed him. Al-Banna’s lawyer, Ahmed Abdel Nabi, told AFP that al-Banna’s father had testified against his son and accused him of “embracing extremist ideas against Islam.”

A court will hear al-Banna’s appeal on March 9, 2015, and his bail has been set at 1,000 Egyptian pounds (US$140), his lawyer told AFP.

Since Egypt’s 2011 uprising, authorities have increasingly investigated blasphemy allegations stemming from both private complaints and government prosecutions. The majority of those investigations, documented by the EIPR, have concerned alleged insults against Islam, though at least two men have received prison sentences on charges of insulting Christianity. Cases of alleged blasphemy often arise out of personal or unrelated disputes.

Recently, the authorities have targeted perceived atheists. Police said the café shut down on December 14, 2014, in Cairo’s Abdeen district was popular with suspected atheists, and District Administrative Chief Gamal Mohie told the Mada Masr news website that the coffee shop was unlicensed and “popularly known as a place for Satan worship, rituals and dances.” He said police had raided the café in November. The Al-Monitor news site reported that a previous owner said he closed the café and leased it to a new owner in June because security forces had targeted the café as a hub for political activists.

On December 10 the Dar al-Ifta, a Justice Ministry wing that issues religious edicts, released a survey claiming that Egypt was home to 866 atheists, the highest number of any country in the Middle East. Two aides to the Grand Mufti – the head of the Dar al-Ifta – described the supposed increase in atheism as “a dangerous development” that “should ring alarm bells,” Mada Masr reported.

In March, the Interior Ministry official in charge of security in Alexandria said he would form a task force to arrest atheists. In June, following the election of President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, Egypt’s youth and religious endowments ministries announced a joint campaign to confront the spread of atheism.

From 2011 to 2013, courts convicted 27 of 42 defendants on charges of contempt for religion, according to the EIPR. Judges acquitted three defendants and rejected charges against 11 others for lack of standing.

Egypt is party to human rights treaties, including the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights, which require its government to respect and protect freedom of religion and belief and freedom of expression, without any discrimination.

Article 64 of Egypt’s constitution states that “freedom of belief is absolute” but guarantees “freedom of practicing” only to followers of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

In many blasphemy cases, according to the EIPR, government prosecutors and private plaintiffs have invoked article 98(f) of the penal code, which prescribes a sentence of six months to five years and a fine of 500 to 1,000 Egyptian pounds for anyone who uses religion to propagate “extremist ideas” to incite strife, insult a monotheistic religion, or damage national unity.

Blasphemy prosecutions continued in 2014. On December 27, prosecutors filed charges against author Fatima Naaout for allegedly writing sarcastic comments on her Facebook wall about the slaughter of animals for the Eid al-Adha holiday. In June, an appeals court in Beni Suef governorate upheld a five-year sentence in absentia for Karam Saber, who was charged in 2010 after publishing a short story collection entitled, “Where is God?”

Also in June 2014, separate courts in Luxor governorate imposed blasphemy sentences of up to six years on four people. A minor offenses court sentenced Kirollos Shawki Atallah to six years for posting photos on Facebook deemed defamatory to Islam. A minor offenses appeals court upheld a conviction and imposed a six-month sentence on Dimyana Obeid Abdel Nour, a primary school teacher whose students had accused her of ridiculing Islam. The same appeals court issued six-month blasphemy sentences for Shahira Mohamed Ahmed Suleiman and Khalifa Mohamed Kheir, according to the EIPR.

In June 2013, a court in Assiut governorate sentenced a Coptic Christian lawyer, Roman Murad Saad, in absentia to one year in prison with hard labor for “ridiculing” the Quran at a Lawyers Syndicate meeting.

In December 2012, a blogger, Albert Saber, was sentenced to three years in prison. He was accused under article 98(f) and other provisions of establishing web pages including “Screwing the Gods” and “Egyptian Atheists.” Critics had also claimed he posted the film “Innocence of Muslims,” a film considered anti-Islamic, on his website. He was released on bail pending his appeal and fled Egypt.




http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/01/13/egypt-3-year-sentence-atheist

Luckily for the atheists of Egypt -- I'm sure there are a lot more than this guy thinks -- you don't have to practice anything to be an atheist. Atheists don't have worship services, songs they have to sing together, prayers to memorize ... no uncomfortable spans of time spent kneeling in a pew, or pointing their asses toward the heavens ... wow, when you think about it that way, religion is a lot of work! I wonder if that's because its leaders understand how much persistence it requires to brainwash a person?

Anybody know any good English-language Egyptian media outlets? I'd like to read them everyday and then send the lovely Mr. Al-Gindi an e-mail about it ...

Ben_Reilly wrote:Luckily for the atheists of Egypt -- I'm sure there are a lot more than this guy thinks -- you don't have to practice anything to be an atheist. Atheists don't have worship services, songs they have to sing together, prayers to memorize ... no uncomfortable spans of time spent kneeling in a pew, or pointing their asses toward the heavens ... wow, when you think about it that way, religion is a lot of work! I wonder if that's because its leaders understand how much persistence it requires to brainwash a person?

Anybody know any good English-language Egyptian media outlets? I'd like to read them everyday and then send the lovely Mr. Al-Gindi an e-mail about it ...

Do not know any Ben to be honest. People often very much go on about religious minorities that suffer persecution but as seen and this is replicated in other religious countries where Atheists are treated with the worst discrimination. As seen here they will attempt to use Apostasy or Blasphemy, all because they don't believe. Hence why if anyone needs to see evidence of why a secular society is leaps and bounds ahead of religious societies. As seen the hypocrisy on religious conversion itself,  to attempt to further censor people  is built on a fear. That fear is born from a lack of belief. This is people trying to control others denying them a choice as to what they believe.

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Luckily for the atheists of Egypt -- I'm sure there are a lot more than this guy thinks -- you don't have to practice anything to be an atheist. Atheists don't have worship services, songs they have to sing together, prayers to memorize ... no uncomfortable spans of time spent kneeling in a pew, or pointing their asses toward the heavens ... wow, when you think about it that way, religion is a lot of work! I wonder if that's because its leaders understand how much persistence it requires to brainwash a person?

Anybody know any good English-language Egyptian media outlets? I'd like to read them everyday and then send the lovely Mr. Al-Gindi an e-mail about it ...

Do not know any Ben to be honest. People often very much go on about religious minorities that suffer persecution but as seen and this is replicated in other religious countries where Atheists are treated with the worst discrimination. As seen here they will attempt to use Apostasy or Blasphemy, all because they don't believe. Hence why if anyone needs to see evidence of why a secular society is leaps and bounds ahead of religious societies. As seen the hypocrisy on religious conversion itself,  to attempt to further censor people  is built on a fear. That fear is born from a lack of belief. This is people trying to control others denying them a choice as to what they believe.

Too true -- through so much of the Asian continent, the "religious" minority that gets the worst treatment are the atheists.