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New Lies for Republicans to pick over

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New Lies for Republicans to pick over Empty New Lies for Republicans to pick over

Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:43 pm

Republicans, totally embarrassed by the non-story about Benghazi, think they have new fodder to chew over. They accuse former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of using a private email account and withholding emails from official purview while in office. Oh yes...um, er...by the way, it wasn't required when she was Secretary of State.

Wall Street Journal wrote:Hillary Clinton’s Personal Email Use Came Before Recent Rule Changes
Amendments to Federal Records Act passed last year

By
Brent Kendall
March 3, 2015 3:40 p.m. ET
16 COMMENTS

WASHINGTON—Federal laws and regulations on preserving government records only recently have begun to catch up with how U.S. officials communicate, a fact highlighted by the public stir over Hillary Clinton ’s private email use as secretary of state.

The Federal Records Act requires government agencies to preserve records documenting the “organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures and essential transactions” of an agency’s business. But it was only last year that Congress passed, and President Barack Obama signed, a law with a series of modern-day changes to improve recordkeeping and preservation.

The 2014 overhaul, which postdates Mrs. Clinton’s tenure at the State Department, placed explicit limits on agency officials using private email accounts for official business. The new law said agency officials can’t create or send a government record on a private account unless they also copy or forward the email to their official government email address.

The National Archives and Records Administration in September 2013 issued guidance to federal agencies that said federal employees generally shouldn’t use personal email accounts to conduct official business, except in limited situations, such as during emergencies when an official may not be able to access an official account.

That 2013 guidance, which also postdated Mrs. Clinton’s tenure, replaced a 2008 memo on federal recordkeeping that didn’t specifically address email records.

But in 2009, the National Archives did issue regulations that said agencies allowing employees to do official business on nonofficial email accounts had to ensure that any records sent on private email systems are preserved “in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.”

Mrs. Clinton turned over 55,000 pages of emails to the State Department but only after they were requested in October of last year. That appears to have been a belated effort by the department to comply with the 2009 regulations. Mrs. Clinton supplied the email records in December.

“Both the letter and spirit of the rules permitted State Department officials to use nongovernment email, as long as appropriate records were preserved,” Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said.

A State Department spokeswoman said the agency was in the process of updating its records preservation policies to bring them in line with the 2013 National Archives guidance. “We have no indication that Secretary Clinton used her personal email account for anything but unclassified purposes,” the spokeswoman added.

A spokeswoman for the National Archives said, “We have reached out to the State Department to ensure that all federal records are properly identified and managed in accordance with the Federal Records Act and that controls and procedures are in place to manage records effectively in the future.”

Steven Aftergood, who directs the Project on Government Secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists, said the issue was an important one because if private email records aren’t in the hands of the government, they are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act and congressional oversight.

Use of private email “is probably fairly widespread, but it needs to be fixed,” Mr. Aftergood said. “This would be an occasion to remind people of that.”

—Peter Nicholas contributed to this article.

Write to Brent Kendall at brent.kendall@wsj.com

Undeterred, Republicans keep yapping.

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Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:34 pm

I think I understand why conservatives are so fond of minimal government.  They are themselves such fuck-ups, that they believe that government can only be the same.

However, there is another way.  Thank god for the left.

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Post by Guest Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:39 pm

Hate to be the one to point it out, but you should have posted this one section down Quill lol

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Post by Cass Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:42 am

oh great......more breaking non -news......
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Post by Original Quill Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:36 am

risingsun wrote:Hate to be the one to point it out, but you should have posted this one section down Quill lol

Thanx sass...I noticed that after I had set everything up. Now, UK is right above US and my hand must have twitched the mouse. Anyway, I guess I opened the wrong section and I was going merrily along...I was getting this strange working screen so (didn't want to f/u) I was concentrating on that.

Half hour later I noticed. They can change if...s'posed to be US News.

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Post by veya_victaous Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:30 am

moved it
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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:16 am

Let's all just ignore the fact that the top-polling Republican potential presidential candidate, Jeb Fucking BUSH, recently published all the e-mails he'd gotten to the web, complete with people's home addresses and Social Security Numbers, the absolute best way to steal an American's identity.

Mother fucking goat whores, they will ignore nothing on the Democratic side and every possible sin on the Republican side.
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Post by Original Quill Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:41 am

This was all before 2014, when they changed the law to require keeping of potentially secret emails.  So there's no law, regulation or rule that was broken.  There's no there, there.

In fact, what is it that they are chasing? Even the totally fabricated issue of Benghazi saw four people die.

Colin Powell never revealed any of his emails when he was Secretary of State, and he was surreptitiously planning a war. Where were the questions then?

This all reminds me of when Mitt Romney was running for president and he refused to disclose his income tax filings, arguing that it is not required by any rule.  I think it's a lot more important when its income taxes, and you are running for president.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:43 am

Have to say, she seems to be dealing with it quite well.

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Post by Original Quill Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:51 am

One thing I have to say about Hillary, is she doesn't take any RW shit. Much as I admire and respect Obama, it is right about here that he would tend to get nervous and back-peddle.

Her persona is not to be a wimp. I like kicking conservative ass til my black boots turn bludy.

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Post by Independent Thoughts Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:46 pm

Can you imagine the uproar from the Democrats if Condoleezza Rice had decided the rules weren’t for her, during her tenure as Secretary of State?

This topic further galvanizes my opinions of those that embrace a political ideology as their own and places the talking heads of “their” party on a pedestal of perfection.  Regardless which party does wrong, wrong was done.  We all should expect a high standard of conduct from our elected and appointed officials, regardless of their political affiliation.  To absolve our officials from misconduct (especially when it’s been intentionally thought out and planned) is to give them unlimited power with no accountability to their constituents.

While many on the left attempt to downplay her most recent scandal, there are many more that have politically distanced themselves from her for it.  Even the commentators on the left have been harshly critical.

The Associated Press did a very thorough fact-check of Hillary’s response.  Despite what the quoted blogger asserts at the beginning of this thread, Hillary did break the law and intentionally circumvented the Freedom of Information Act and federal laws concerning official emails.  See the AP’s analysis here:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/03/10/ap-fact-check-hillarys-email-excuses-dont-hold-water/

Even Jon Stewart skewered Hillary for her actions and lame excuses:
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/nsy1a2/on-her-majesty-s-secret-server

My favorite quote is at the end:
“You just told us that you didn’t follow the rules because carrying two devices would be too much of a pain in the ass.  You know what is a far bigger pain in the ass?  Deleting 30,000 emails.”


Last edited by IndependentThoughts on Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo in Jon Stewart's name)

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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:59 am

IndependentThoughts wrote:Can you imagine the uproar from the Democrats if Condoleezza Rice had decided the rules weren’t for her, during her tenure as Secretary of State?

This topic further galvanizes my opinions of those that embrace a political ideology as their own and places the talking heads of “their” party on a pedestal of perfection.  Regardless which party does wrong, wrong was done.  We all should expect a high standard of conduct from our elected and appointed officials, regardless of their political affiliation.  To absolve our officials from misconduct (especially when it’s been intentionally thought out and planned) is to give them unlimited power with no accountability to their constituents.

While many on the left attempt to downplay her most recent scandal, there are many more that have politically distanced themselves from her for it.  Even the commentators on the left have been harshly critical.

The Associated Press did a very thorough fact-check of Hillary’s response.  Despite what the quoted blogger asserts at the beginning of this thread, Hillary did break the law and intentionally circumvented the Freedom of Information Act and federal laws concerning official emails.  See the AP’s analysis here:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/03/10/ap-fact-check-hillarys-email-excuses-dont-hold-water/

Even Jon Stewart skewered Hillary for her actions and lame excuses:
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/nsy1a2/on-her-majesty-s-secret-server

My favorite quote is at the end:
“You just told us that you didn’t follow the rules because carrying two devices would be too much of a pain in the ass.  You know what is a far bigger pain in the ass?  Deleting 30,000 emails.”

Actually there was an uproar from Democrats about deleted/vanished e-mails while Bush was in office:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Millions of White House e-mails may be missing, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino acknowledged Friday.

"I wouldn't rule out that there were a potential 5 million e-mails lost," Perino told reporters.

The administration was already facing sharp questions about whether top presidential advisers including Karl Rove improperly used Republican National Committee e-mail that the White House said later disappeared.

The latest comments were a response to a new report from a liberal watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), alleging that over a two-year period official White House e-mail traffic for hundreds of days has vanished -- in possible violation of the federal Presidential Records Act.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

It would be interesting if Republicans paid attention to their own house, wouldn't it? I mean, how many Tea Party supporters got upset about Obama's czars? Smile
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Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:34 am

Much ado about nothing.  I mean, it's not as if Hillary started a war on a lie.  She didn't cause the death of some 4,400 americans; nor did she cause the death of 200,000 altogether.  She didn't drive the country into debt to the tune of $17-trillion.  Indeed, Hillary has never lied, kidnapped, tortured, raped or murdered.

What did she do?  I'm almost embarrassed.  She failed to turn over emails???  When there was no law requiring it?  When there was no regulation requiring it?  When there wasn't even a rule requiring it?  About the only thing requiring her to disclose her emails, was it would have been polite.

Um, when were Republicans--"you lie, Mr. President"--ever polite?  Fuck all Republicans.  Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out...old, white men have a way of injuring themselves.

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Post by Independent Thoughts Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:40 am

I hear you both. I really do.
Do you?

This is exactly what I’m talking about. You are both pointing out other’s bad behavior to mitigate someone else’s bad behavior. As if that justifies anything at all. If you believe it does, you’re part of the problem. We should hold all of our representatives accountable and quit giving passes to those that we politically align with. That’s when effectiveness in one’s job/duty is sacrificed for celebrity.

Sorry, but I don’t care what your politics are and get pretty tired of the “Us vs You” crap that comes with it. I would like some transparency and accountability. People that are fanatics for “their party” and want to white-wash their party’s deficiencies are not being true to their conscious or themselves.

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Post by Independent Thoughts Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:28 am

In re to:

What did she do?  I'm almost embarrassed.  She failed to turn over emails???  When there was no law requiring it?  When there was no regulation requiring it?  When there wasn't even a rule requiring it?  About the only thing requiring her to disclose her emails, was it would have been polite.


Don't take a politician's word that he (or she) didn't break the law, rules, or would never lie to protect their carefully cultivated image.  

Does anyone remember Nixon's famous words?
"I am not a crook!"
How did that turn out?

"Read my lips: No new taxes."
Yet, George H. W. Bush did.

"I had no sexual relations with that woman."
Yeah.  Hillary's husband did.

As for the emotionally-felt ode to wrote in support of Hillary's insistence that she didn't break any rules or laws, you may want to consider the felonies she could potentially face.  Details below...

...according to a former Department of Justice attorney and State Department protocol, she may have committed a felony by failing to turn over the proper documentation before leaving her position in 2013.

Every person who works inside the State Department must sign an official Separation Statement, which is a document requiring an inventory be taken of personal documents departing officials plan to take with them. These documents must be submitted to and approved by Department records officials. According to the State Department Records Management Handbook, officials who fail to turn over documents can face, "fines, imprisonment or both for the willful and unlawful removal or destruction of records as stated in the U.S. Criminal Code." Clinton has argued that she has turned over all the proper documents to the State Department, but just did it two years after leaving her position.

"State Department regulations also say that departing officials have to make sure that all of their official records are in the files of the Department of State upon departure. That couldn't be any clearer," Former DOJ Attorney Shannen Coffin said...

Read the full article here:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/12/hillary-clinton-may-have-committed-a-felony-by-failing-to-turn-over-emails-ontime-n1969517


Last edited by IndependentThoughts on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added the cool quote effect to the cool quote from the source.)

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Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:02 pm

Yes IT, but Nixon WAS a crook.  Hillary is not.  One simple rule in life: there is such a thing as evidence; you can't just say she did it because the other guy does it all the time.  The real point to be made is diametrically opposite to the point you are trying to make: there is no bilaterality in politics.  No...everybody does not do it!

Liberals don't lie because they don't have to.  They work for the common good.  Conservatives and Republicans have to lie for the reason that they work for special interests.  Both sides need votes...but there aren't as many voters in the pool of special interests.  So, conservatives and Republicans lie.  They want to share in the appearance of impartiality, even though they are not impartial.  With me so far?

Liberals don't have to lie because they are precisely what they represent themselves to be: for the common good.  Conservatives and Republicans are continually working to fool the public, because they want to take more of the pie for themselves.  The two are not just different brands, but completely different kinds of products.

The idea of bilaterality ("...everybody does it") is a common excuse, that was no doubt first offered by the first thief.  In modern politics, the conservatives and Republicans argue that "everybody does it" all the time.  Why?  Because they want to create the appearance of bilaterality...in order to get away with their lies and theft.  It's a refuge...a hole-in-the-wall for robbers to hide in.

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Post by Original Quill Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:35 pm

The idea of the separation statement being used to gin up a felony charge is ludicrous.  The emails were kept in a private server, using a private account, located in her home.  No law, regulation or rule prohibited that.  It was personal property, and was never public property.  Separation statements have to do with things kept in the office, for the office.  They are for mundane things like pens, certificates hanging on the wall and photographs. Because the emails were not "separated" from the office, the separation statement does not even come into play.

To read the law that way, Hillary would have to sign a separation statement for her wardrobe, her shoes and that gold watch her husband gave her...just because she used them for work.  Absurd.  Things that are private and not of the office, have nothing to do with the office...there is nothing to declare as separate property.  It's typical Republican chicanery in an attempt to bootstrap themselves into an argument.  More disingenuous lies.

If any Republican senator or congressman signs a separation statement for their wardrobe when they leave office, I would like to see it.  Maybe the pink knickers worn by Mitch McConnell when he takes the floor??  We could all have a good laugh on SNL.

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