The Ukip Index: Who's Voting Ukip?

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:45 pm

For pollsters, analysts, and politicos alike, one of the most important issues ahead of May's General Election is the Ukip effect - understanding how many people will vote for the party and what impact it will have on the Election. Our January voting intention polling - analysing more than 16,000 interviews - shows Ukip on 13.2%. Support seems fairly stable, the party was on 12.6% in January 2014 and 13.4% in June 2014 after the European elections, although Lord Ashcroft's marginal seat polling suggests Ukip may have a particularly significant role in marginal seats.
Support is not, however, consistent. All parties attract more support from some groups in society than others, and Ukip is no different. We've used the same techniques we used last week for The Green Party to show these differences via an Index. In the analysis below, an Index score of 100 is average, showing the group is no more or less likely than average to vote Ukip. Scores above 100 indicate a greater level of support for Ukip, and scores below 100 a lower than average level of support.

The Ukip Index: Who's Voting Ukip? 2015-02-06-UKIP2-thumb

It is clear that, demographically, Ukip supporters are more likely to be male, and to be older. Those aged 45 or older - and particularly those aged 65 and above - are more likely than average to support Ukip. Geographically, Ukip support is higher in Eastern England, Yorkshire & Humberside, and the Midlands. Support is noticeably weaker in Scotland, as well as in London.
Ukip support is substantially weaker among public sector workers, private renters, those from a non-white ethnic background, individuals still in full time education, and those with a higher university degree. Indeed Ukip support seems to decrease with educational attainment - there is a spike in support among those with secondary education. Other groups that over-index in support include retirees, renters of council or housing association homes, and individuals living in rural areas.

The Ukip Index: Who's Voting Ukip? 2015-02-06-UKIP1-thumb

Many of these characteristics contrast with those of Green Party supporters - another group that has grown in recent times. Viewing our Ukip Index alongside our Green Index shows that, where UKIP supporters are older, Green Party supporters are younger. Men over-index among Ukip supporters, but women over-index among Green supporters. Ukip supporters are more likely to be retired while Green support over-indexes among students. While the two parties have both been described as offering an alternative to the three main Westminster parties, the demographics of their supporters show how they are the non-identical twins of the anti-Westminster mood.
Studying how Ukip supporters voted in 2010 demonstrates why the party represents a threat to all Westminster parties, but particularly the Conservative Party. Just 14% of current Ukip supporters voted Ukip in 2010. That leaves a very large proportion of voters moving from other parties to Ukip, and the largest source of these new Ukippers are ex-Conservative voters. 45% of current Ukippers voted Conservative in 2010. 14% voted Liberal Democrat, and 10% voted Labour.

The Ukip Index: Who's Voting Ukip? 2015-02-06-UKIP3-thumb

Ukip undoubtedly attracts supporters from all walks of life - a party polling strongly just three months before a General Election must - but our Ukip Index illustrates the types of voters most likely to have been won over. It also allows us to identify a typical supporter - likely to be male, retired, a former Conservative voter, finished education at the end of secondary school, and perhaps living somewhere in Eastern England.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/laurence-stellings/ukip-poll-voters_b_6631026.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:44 pm

and yet

here's me

male yes
own business
former labour voter
degree
living in north west

so boo sucks to your stats Razz

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:01 pm

darknessss wrote:and yet

here's me

male yes
own business
former labour voter
degree
living in north west

so boo sucks to your stats

Ah but there are always a couple of exceptions to the rule Victor.

Razz

The fact is this is very telling of the kind of people in general that vote for UKIP.
They do leave out some interesting aspects I have read about from Matthew Goodwin.
Many seem to be angry white British men, pessimistic, nationalistic, basically anti establishment. Even your on discourse you will admit comes across as angry. Wanting a return to a time which to all intents and purposes was not a utopian time, but one steeped in prejudice, sexism and denial. You are differ from this on many factors, but you are fundamentally nationalistically patriotic to the point of a British or English brotherhood based on Anglo-Saxon white culture. It does not mean you are racist, far from it. I would rather say you dream more of a Utopian view of this country based around the worlds that Tolkien created.

You should read his book, he was a former BNP supporter as well, but he has studied many UKIP supporters, though you are like I say an exception to the rule, but with some similar shared concepts.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/apr/23/revolt-on-right-robert-ford-matthew-goodwin-review

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/05/left-behind-voters-only-ukip-understands

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:17 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:and yet

here's me

male yes
own business
former labour voter
degree
living in north west

so boo sucks to your stats

Ah but there are always a couple of exceptions to the rule Victor.

The fact is this is very telling of the kind of people in general that vote for UKIP.
They do leave out some interesting aspects I have read about from Matthew Goodwin.
Many seem to be angry white British men, pessimistic, nationalistic, basically anti establishment.

I would say that that to an extent is true, but then perhaps you should ask WHY these people feel angry, pessimistic and anti establishment....
could it be that in fact the reason is that we see the "establishment" as having let us down, as having made decisions that in some cases were demonstrably bad for the UK (though not certain individuals of course). That many of us probably see "the system" as being a 3 horse race but only one horse owner?
we have the EU...and attempts at federalisation....but no proper democracy or accountability
we have LABOUR and its admitted deliberate immigrant flood to attempt to skew the ballot box
we have the tories who are creating unnecessary social strife over benefits and yet refusing to deal with (the far mor serious and money removing) tax dogers

and a lot of other things....

you're surprised some are angry??

Even your on discourse you will admit comes across as angry. Wanting a return to a time which to all intents and purposes was not a utopian time, but one steeped in prejudice, sexism and denial. You are differ from this on many factors, but you are fundamentally nationalistically patriotic to the point of a British or English brotherhood based on Anglo-Saxon white culture. UH OH....erm nope...firstoff I'm a norman, and we kicked them saxon pigs arse into touch almost 1000 years ago and put em in their rightful place (serfs)Secondly as I have said elsewhere anyone can have their culture for themselves ON ONE CONDITION....that they keep it fopr themselves and DO NOT IN ANYWAY expect/demand or even ask nicely for ANY concession from me (the collective "me")NOR criticise/complain aboutor riot over what MY culture sees as acceptable(as long as it is not "harming directly " anyone else. It does not mean you are racist, far from it. I would think not since I am quite happy with the idea of limited controlled and above all MANAGED immigration I would rather say you dream more of a Utopian view of this country based around the worlds that Tolkien created.

ahh...you mean a world where Honour truth and justice were the prime drivers, rather than lies deciet and division
sort of an elven world rather than an orc one???
(guess which one we got ATM....mordor rules.....)

You should read his book, he was a former BNP supporter as well, but he has studied many UKIP supporters, though you are like I say an exception to the rule, but with some similar shared concepts.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/apr/23/revolt-on-right-robert-ford-matthew-goodwin-review

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/05/left-behind-voters-only-ukip-understands

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:30 pm

darknessss wrote:I would say that that to an extent is true, but then perhaps you should ask WHY these people feel angry, pessimistic and anti establishment....
could it be that in fact the reason is that we see the "establishment" as having let us down, as having made decisions that in some cases were demonstrably bad for the UK (though not certain individuals of course). That many of us probably see "the system" as being a 3 horse race but only one horse owner?
we have the EU...and attempts at federalisation....but no proper democracy or accountability
we have LABOUR and its admitted deliberate immigrant flood to attempt to skew the ballot box
we have the tories who are creating unnecessary social strife over benefits and yet refusing to deal with (the far mor serious and money removing) tax dogers

and a lot of other things....

you're surprised some are angry??ahh...you mean a world where Honour truth and justice were the prime drivers, rather than lies deciet and division
sort of an elven world rather than an orc one???
(guess which one we got ATM....mordor rules.....)

It is an important question why some people are angry, pessimistic, anti establishment etc. To e it has much to do with partly patriotism, but one found steeped deep in again the past where this nation held a world stage of dominance. The point is in the past people had less say than they do today, in fact in this era we live in people have far more of a say than they have ever had in the past. They look at the past when this country was mainly of a white nation, no matte tier ethnic group and the influence the English or British culture had on the world. To be honest the British Empire actually created the draw of many different former colonial countries to be drawn to this nation. Imagine if we had not encompassed many parts of the world, as would many of these immigrants we see here today have been drawn here? It also has much to do with the Political discourse has become stagnated, which it has also not helped with recessions reoccurring every few decades through greed. Some people are wanting change, but some of these people who want this change are living off the past, one again which did not have the freedoms that you do enjoy today. They mistakenly think that there was. I am not surprised some are angry, I just that anger is wrongly directed at some like with blaming immigration for all the problems of this country and itis this rhetoric which will never become popular with all walks of society. It is a view that looks for all the wrong reasons to help reform our nation, ones that seek to blame. A better way forward is uniting a nation with better political aspirations, ones that do not form a view of anger or hate You end up making far more problems than you started with, here the need should be for finding common ground on what really matters, the people of the nation in having jobs, roofs over their head and financial comfortably. I think sadly society because it has become so materialistic and selfish, it only looks to themselves and not others. It seeks to again blame, when all should work together for a better way forward for all in society

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:47 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:I would say that that to an extent is true, but then perhaps you should ask WHY these people feel angry, pessimistic and anti establishment....
could it be that in fact the reason is that we see the "establishment" as having let us down, as having made decisions that in some cases were demonstrably bad for the UK (though not certain individuals of course). That many of us probably see "the system" as being a 3 horse race but only one horse owner?
we have the EU...and attempts at federalisation....but no proper democracy or accountability
we have LABOUR and its admitted deliberate immigrant flood to attempt to skew the ballot box
we have the tories who are creating unnecessary social strife over benefits and yet refusing to deal with (the far mor serious and money removing) tax dogers

and a lot of other things....

you're surprised some are angry??ahh...you mean a world where Honour truth and justice were the prime drivers, rather than lies deciet and division
sort of an elven world rather than an orc one???
(guess which one we got ATM....mordor rules.....)

It is an important question why some people are angry, pessimistic, anti establishment etc. To e it has much to do with partly patriotism, but one found steeped deep in again the past where this nation held a world stage of dominance. The point is in the past people had less say than they do today, in fact in this era we live in people have far more of a say than they have ever had in the past. They look at the past when this country was mainly of a white nation, no matte tier ethnic group and the influence the English or British culture had on the world. To be honest the British Empire actually created the draw of many different former colonial countries to be drawn to this nation. Imagine if we had not encompassed many parts of the world, as would many of these immigrants we see here today have been drawn here? It also has much to do with the Political discourse has become stagnated, which it has also not helped with recessions reoccurring every few decades through greed. Some people are wanting change, but some of these people who want this change are living off the past, one again which did not have the freedoms that you do enjoy today. They mistakenly think that there was. I am not surprised some are angry, I just that anger is wrongly directed at some like with blaming immigration for all the problems of this country and itis this rhetoric which will never become popular with all walks of society. It is a view that looks for all the wrong reasons to help reform our nation, ones that seek to blame. A better way forward is uniting a nation with better political aspirations, ones that do not form a view of anger or hate You end up making far more problems than you started with, here the need should be for finding common ground on what really matters, the people of the nation in having jobs, roofs over their head and financial comfortably. I think sadly society because it has become so materialistic and selfish, it only looks to themselves and not others. It seeks to again blame, when all should work together for a better way forward for all in society

Agreed...but it aint going to happen with the present lot ...tories preach hate against the poor
labour preach hate against the "native"

and neither of them seek a sensible soultion of CONTROLLED and managed immigration....which can still be fair, keep out trouble makers (to a greater degree than at present)
and above all STOP the present headlong dive into a freedomless nanny state......

look at Labour Rolling Eyes

All the shite we got going with the economy, the appaling record of social assistance te way the less fortunate are treated by the dare i say it nazi ATOS etc....
and what does one of their number come up with.....

If labour is elected ...we will make it harder for LEGITIMATE gun holders to get licences (as if it isnt hard enough already) notice what she says ...legitimate holders.....NOT we will take steps to ensure its harder for criminals to get guns......

this is the sort of "interference" (as opposed to govening) that make many angry (and the issue isnt just guns its a whole range of things)

so I wont be voting labour.....

the tories wont "govern" and deal with the far greater threat of tax dodgers

so I wont vote for them either

the Lib dems are a joke

the greens are mentally retarded tree huggers who live on bad science and even worse economics

so UKIP......who I agree are also morons of the first order ...will get MY vote

purely on the basis that they are at least interesting morons, and a few of them in parliament ?(sufficient to have an impact) ? might firghten the main parties into their rightful senses.

the ONLY other thing is to hope for a meteor strike..............

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:56 pm

A true pessimist you are victor and I mean that nicely. To be honest what is wrong with your whole discourse?
I certainly agree with many points you raise but what is wrong with your views? They are all based on negativity and why I think such discourse of which UKIP use in abundance will never catch onto the point of real change. What you do need is a discourse of real alternative which for example UKIP are not. Now I know you do not even think UKIP would bring about change and even your last points sums up your view to give up, to me being defeatist.

Of all the people I have met on the web, if you used your views in a more positive discourse about wanting to bring about change, I believe you could or even start up your own party. Debate off what needs to change, one that does not look to blame, but looks to change. One that looks to make things right but without dividing society, but uniting the nation. This can also have nationalism, which is open to all because at the end of the day British or more to the point English is just a concept, but you can make it a far better concept. I am not denying we do have problems or even some problems within some ethnic communities, but all the rhetoric is just not solving the problems and pf course PC does not help either. A better solution needs to be found.

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:38 pm

you want a party didge???

heres a start

Social policy
1 get rid of the stupidity that is the human rights act as it has evolved into

1a, get rid of the EHRC and our beloved mr Phillips…..

2 replace it with a UK bill of rights and responsibilities

3 such a bill of rights to be based on (not a copy of) the ORIGINAL 1957 charter of human rights

4 NO DEATH PENALTY. It is barbaric, ineffectual in deterrence, and serves only to feed the need for vicarious revenge of some sectors of society.

5 HOWEVER ..life to mean life with no hope of parole, and not in a 5 star hotel either

6 prisons to be graded in severity of conditions, from basic for minor offences to positively horrible for vile offences, none of them being places you would really want to go to

7 sentencing guidelines to be altered to allow judges to penalise the “nastyness” of a crime as an example…..a guy breaks in to your shed and pinches your mower…ok that’s annoying but…..however (and this happened) some youths broke into an elderly canary breeders shed (the guy was 75 and his canaries were his life in a way…he had been breeding em for years) and killed all his canaries….that’s just nasty…especially since those canaries were this guys lifes work….those youths shoud get 5 years in a “nasty” prison…if you see what I mean.

7a, call a one off amnesty for ALL stupid minor crime…lets empty the jails of those who don’t really need to be there…you know…the guy who didn’t pay his tv fine…the poll tax defaulter….the minor fraudster….and a lot of the other non violent offenders that are in there atm….THEN we can start turning them into “basic” to “nasty” places. With the warning to those just released…..we let you off THIS time…next time…it wont be so nice in there.

8 better mental evaluation of “evil” crimes the “is he mad or bad “ debate needs to be addressed urgently. If he’s mad he needs to be in a secure hospital..if he’s bad …well there’s life in the “nasty” prison, but it can be easily argued that ANYONE who pointlessly commits a truly evil crime…such as the recent baby killer….is actually mad, got a screw loose….since no one commits such a crime..for no apparent reason….if its done for a reason however…like profit, or politics…well that’s bad not mad IMO.

8a, anonymity unless and until guilt is proven for ANYONE involved in a sex case

9 stop ALL forms of “positive discrimination” since no form of discrimination is right except in the PC gone mad world

10 reverse the PC culture which is aimed at destroying peoples identity and right of self expression

11 strengthen the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and opinion….with the corollary that inciting hatred or violence of any sort is strictly forbidden….as an example…..it should be fine for someone to stand on his soap box and say I hate (insert whatever section of society you want)…that’s his opinion …and he has a right to voice it…..what is NOT OK is to say …I hate (insert whatever section of society you want), so should you , lets go and beat some…This is where rights and responsibility comes into it…..you have a right to freedom of speech and expression…..you have consequently a RESPONSIBILITY to use that freedom in a way that doesn’t infringe the rights of someone else to live a peaceful life

12 bring in laws to control the “compensation culture” and ambulance chasers…Its about time we got back to realising that accidents sometimes do indeed just happen, and that sometimes these accidents are as much our own fault as anyone elses.

13 enforce a system of law that recognises that people SHOULD take responsibility for the consequences of their own stupidity, so..if you break into someones house and their dog eats your leg…….who’s bloody fault is that then??…

14 make it a requirement that equality of persons is properly encouraged, by the provision where necessary of the required facilities, ie ramps for disabled, breastfeeding facilities for mothers…. in other words …the obvious….for a fair and decent society

15 evolve a system whereby community efforts, outstanding service, acts of outstanding courage etc are properly recognised, and give the recipient some tangible benefit

16…oooer…you gonna hate me for this…..the biometric identity card…..taken to its theoretical limit….with your finger print retinal print and DNA profile encoded into it….with the ability to have shall we say “slots”on it..like one for pubs…one for public transport ..one for being allowed out after 9 at night …etc etc….NOW if you are naughty and cause a problem with drinking…next time you go in the pub…when you buy a pint ..the landlord says …card pls…..and the card, when read says…uh oh…oh no……and you cant get served……

17…that’s it for tonite…me ‘ead ‘urts

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:40 pm

AND

So, Just HOW would you run the country?

When we look at whats going on, It is obvious that the old 3 party system is no longer fit for the purpose, and a big change is needed, but who do we look to? The obvious choice is the BNP, but, they are hamstrung by their past, and come to that, the past of nationalism. However we have to realise that just as socialism has changed over the years (and not for the better it might be added) so has nationalism. The BNP are largely marginalized, with their numbers bolstered mainly by discontented and, it has to be said the I’m all right jack…sod you brigade, so much is obvious by the various posts we see on the forum, the attitude displayed by those posters towards disabled, gay and ethnic minorities, is often only marginally short of that displayed by certain people in the 1930’s in another nation. Personally I have a lot of sympathy towards the BNP’s stance on many things….BUT I cannot support them simply because there is an underlying malice that just cannot be removed, a malice that shows in statements that come from various senior members, and that rolls forth on a daily basis from their supporters on this forum. Also, in many areas the BNP’s policy does not go far enough…it is not radical enough and fails to address the issues of today, nor the fact that many of those issues will be worse in the not to distant future

So, how would YOU run the country…well…I would do it like this, and please, bear in mind that in most cases, where I would make monetary suggestions…I have limited information on the amounts of money actually floating around…Lets face it none of us have ANY real idea of the TRUE balance sheet of the nation. I merely propose the ideas for reasonable discussion…..If your input is going to be limited to “wanker
” “pillock” “twat” etc …don’t bother replying, if however you can make CONSTRUCTIVE comment, or back your point with REAL figures, then great…

Financial policy

1, leave the EU as fast as is practicable, if necessary subsidising British interests in order to speed it up

2, cancel ALL foreign aid, except where such aid is clearly and independantly demonstrated to be properly used to the benefit of the intended recipients

3, tear up any and all agreements to pay anyone any “carbon taxes”

4, increase duty on All alcohol and smoking material by 10% per year for 10 years

5, cease all expenditure on anti smoking advertising…if people want to smoke…its up to them…and they bring in more in duty than they cost in health care..

6, reduce vehicle excise duty on all vehicles to a nominal £20 per year to cover registration costs

7 increase the rate of fuel duty by 30p this year and by 10p per year for the next 5 years

8,
9 legalise cannabis and make it duty payed the same as tobacco

10 legalise prostitution, making the bordello owner legally responsible for the health care of the girls. Make street prostitution strictly illegal with severe penalties for breaches of this law…especially for the pimps

Now this is whats gonna bite…..

11…remove ALL state benefits pensions etc

now…stop slavering…..wait….down you dog called the left,

12…replace it with a SINGLE…UNTAXABLE state payment, payable to ALL UK citizens over the age of 16, on a residency basis ONLY…at a level which provides a bare minimum standard of living ( I would guess that’s about at statutory minimum wage level)

13 remove the statutory minimum wage

14 remove all tax allowances

15 All income beyond the state payment to be taxed at 50% up to 150,000

16 over 150,000 taxed at 75%

17 make all tax returns the duty of the EMPLOYER…..with heavy penalties for defaulters

Reasoning:

1 the EU costs us more than it brings to us, both in terms of fixed costs and invisible costs

2 foreign aid is mainly misused, and in the situation we are in…we cant afford it

3 man made climate change is a load of old cobblers…made up to subjugate the west
yes the climates changing…but its been doing that for years…also…an interesting fact…that Icelandic volcano that hiccupped a bit back…wiped out the last 10 years carbon savings…and the next 20 to come….…..no point paying through the nose to fight nature…

4, it’s a good cash cow

5 need I say more, and I’m sick of the nanny state

6 & 7 transfer the VED to fuel duty…he who uses most pays most

8 watch this space…

9 more money to the exchequer…and …ask a cop who he would sooner scrape up from the door way…a drunk or a pothead???

10…why not…about time we caught up with the 21st century…and just think of the income tax…not to mention the vat and duty….

11….17

this is the really serious bit of this….

We have, on all sides of the political divide, to realise that for good or bad, and for whatever reason and regardless of who’s “fault it is , the world has changed mightily.
2-3 generations have lived in a system where there has been little hope of a job, such jobs as are available are seen as demeaning and or unpleasant. It has also to be recognised that many jobs which would have sustained most of these folk have gone for good…exported…destroyed. There is a job gulf bigger than ever before…its either cleaning the loos or a degree position…so we have to recognise that there are a lot, an awful lot, of folks who are going to be loo cleaners….NOT.
It must also be recognised that due to years of poor social education, poor parental and teacher leadership, and the sickening creep of socialist sheeping visible in soaps and the brainless useless celebrity magazines….there are a lot of folks who are psychologically incapable of work in any sustained manner, but who would, if given the chance do some part time work here and there In order to better themselves. Those who WANT to work…will…and despite a higher tax band etc would still be much better of even I suspect than at present.

We should get away from the Victorian “christian work ethic”…that is no longer fit for the purpose, and instead focus on creating a society where fairness means a relaxed attitude to working, where working is as much for self improvement as it is for “stuffing the wallet of the industrialist” and at the same time recognising that not everyone is born to be top man….as Einstein said….”Vell….Ve cant all be first violinners in der orchestra, some of us have to push der vindt through der trombone”

Yes there will be those who will just say oki …I’ll take the state wage and put me feet up….but then that’s where they will stay…...some will say well I want a bit more…and do part time ..here and there jobs…easy to do with no dole office idiots to try to negotiate part time work with… others will as they always have…get on with things and get well paid full time jobs..with the state wage making up for the loss due to higher taxes etc…and with some to spare in the middle bracket…which most of us belong to I suspect.

I strongly suspect that such a move would benefit everyone, providing financial security for all, at the penalty of just retargeting costs and payments.

Finally let me ask you to read carefully and think through the implications of this approach…I know there are things implicit in this that I haven’t made obvious…due to time…and the fact I cant think and type at the same time Razz

Things like the cost of providing the present benefits costs as much or more as the benfits themselves…get rid of the benefits and you get back double…

More to follow if you want it…or even if you don’t….

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:01 pm

darknessss wrote:Social policy
1 get rid of the stupidity that is the human rights act as it has evolved into

1a, get rid of the EHRC and our beloved mr Phillips…..

2 replace it with a UK bill of rights and responsibilities

3 such a bill of rights to be based on (not a copy of) the ORIGINAL 1957 charter of human rights

4 NO DEATH PENALTY. It is barbaric, ineffectual in deterrence, and serves only to feed the need for vicarious revenge of some sectors of society.

5 HOWEVER ..life to mean life with no hope of parole, and not in a 5 star hotel either

6 prisons to be graded in severity of conditions, from basic for minor offences to positively horrible for vile offences, none of them being places you would really want to go to

7 sentencing guidelines to be altered to allow judges to penalise the “nastyness” of a crime as an example…..a guy breaks in to your shed and pinches your mower…ok that’s annoying but…..however (and this happened) some youths broke into an elderly canary breeders shed (the guy was 75 and his canaries were his life in a way…he had been breeding em for years) and killed all his canaries….that’s just nasty…especially since those canaries were this guys lifes work….those youths shoud get 5 years in a “nasty” prison…if you see what I mean.

7a, call a one off amnesty for ALL stupid minor crime…lets empty the jails of those who don’t really need to be there…you know…the guy who didn’t pay his tv fine…the poll tax defaulter….the minor fraudster….and a lot of the other non violent offenders that are in there atm….THEN we can start turning them into “basic” to “nasty” places. With the warning to those just released…..we let you off THIS time…next time…it wont be so nice in there.

8 better mental evaluation of “evil” crimes the “is he mad or bad “ debate needs to be addressed urgently. If he’s mad he needs to be in a secure hospital..if he’s bad …well there’s life in the “nasty” prison, but it can be easily argued that ANYONE who pointlessly commits a truly evil crime…such as the recent baby killer….is actually mad, got a screw loose….since no one commits such a crime..for no apparent reason….if its done for a reason however…like profit, or politics…well that’s bad not mad IMO.

8a, anonymity unless and until guilt is proven for ANYONE involved in a sex case

9 stop ALL forms of “positive discrimination” since no form of discrimination is right except in the PC gone mad world

10 reverse the PC culture which is aimed at destroying peoples identity and right of self expression

11 strengthen the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and opinion….with the corollary that inciting hatred or violence of any sort is strictly forbidden….as an example…..it should be fine for someone to stand on his soap box and say I hate (insert whatever section of society you want)…that’s his opinion …and he has a right to voice it…..what is NOT OK is to say …I hate (insert whatever section of society you want), so should you , lets go and beat some…This is where rights and responsibility comes into it…..you have a right to freedom of speech and expression…..you have consequently a RESPONSIBILITY to use that freedom in a way that doesn’t infringe the rights of someone else to live a peaceful life

12 bring in laws to control the “compensation culture” and ambulance chasers…Its about time we got back to realising that accidents sometimes do indeed just happen, and that sometimes these accidents are as much our own fault as anyone elses.

13 enforce a system of law that recognises that people SHOULD take responsibility for the consequences of their own stupidity, so..if you break into someones house and their dog eats your leg…….who’s bloody fault is that then??…

14 make it a requirement that equality of persons is properly encouraged, by the provision where necessary of the required facilities, ie ramps for disabled, breastfeeding facilities for mothers…. in other words …the obvious….for a fair and decent society

15 evolve a system whereby community efforts, outstanding service, acts of outstanding courage etc are properly recognised, and give the recipient some tangible benefit

16…oooer…you gonna hate me for this…..the biometric identity card…..taken to its theoretical limit….with your finger print retinal print and DNA profile encoded into it….with the ability to have shall we say “slots”on it..like one for pubs…one for public transport ..one for being allowed out after 9 at night …etc etc….NOW if you are naughty and cause a problem with drinking…next time you go in the pub…when you buy a pint ..the landlord says …card pls…..and the card, when read says…uh oh…oh no……and you cant get served……

17…that’s it for tonite…me ‘ead ‘urts

Point 1) Disagree, just needs better judges to rule on aspects and needs reform.

Point 2) Again just needs reform, where you will find we agree with most of the rulings

Point 3) see last two points

Point 4) Agreed 99%, except for war criminals who commit acts of barbarity like those who fight and committed atrocities under ISIS for example.

Point 5) Agreed.

Point 6) Agreed.

Point 7) Agreed

Point 7a) Agreed

Point 8.) Agreed

Point 9) Agreed

Point 10) Disagree, PC needs reforming. It is over the top but in part is still needed as people cannot be responsible. The fact is it would not have come about if people were not so irresponsible, but it is over the top at present.

Point 11) Agreed and follow these principles to be the bench mark on hate speech:
"Political scientist Susan Benesch has come up with five key qualitative variables to discern the dangerousness of speech, offering a useful model for analyzing hate speech case studies. These include the level of a speaker’s influence, the grievances or fears of the audience, whether or not the speech act is understood as a call to violence, the social and historical context, and the way in which the speech is disseminated."

Point 12) Very much agree, though is difficult how you would be able to draw the line here between those who deserve and those who do not compensation.

Point 13) Very much agreed.

Point 14) Very much agreed.

Point 15) Very much agreed.

Point 16) Actually agree.

Will add

Point 17) All schools to be made secular, mixed and religion to only be taught as a subject.

Point 18) That religious beliefs do not supersede the equality and laws of the land.

Point 19) Signatory of 2 million can bring about a referendum on an issue.

Point 20) Create a bigger emphasis on the concept of an English ad not British identity for the people of England, no matter their ethnicity. That they can also identity on their ethnicity also as we see happen in the USA.

Point 21) Make the identity of the English flag something to be proud of again and not a symbol of racism.

Point 22) Introduce compulsory Long Bow education for over 12, just to annoy the French. Razz

Point 23) Make the celebration of St George's day a public holiday, where we all fire our long bows from Dover in the direction of France. Razz

Point 24) Reclaim the former American colonies. Razz

Point 25) Sorry am getting carried away

by Guest Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:31 pm

darknessss wrote:AND

So, Just HOW would you run the country?

When we look at whats going on, It is obvious that the old 3 party system is no longer fit for the purpose, and a big change is needed, but who do we look to? The obvious choice is the BNP, but, they are hamstrung by their past, and come to that, the past of nationalism. However we have to realise that just as socialism has changed over the years (and not for the better it might be added) so has nationalism. The BNP are largely marginalized, with their numbers bolstered mainly by discontented and, it has to be said the I’m all right jack…sod you brigade, so much is obvious by the various posts we see on the forum, the attitude displayed by those posters towards disabled, gay and ethnic minorities, is often only marginally short of that displayed by certain people in the 1930’s in another nation. Personally I have a lot of sympathy towards the BNP’s stance on many things….BUT I cannot support them simply because there is an underlying malice that just cannot be removed, a malice that shows in statements that come from various senior members, and that rolls forth on a daily basis from their supporters on this forum. Also, in many areas the BNP’s policy does not go far enough…it is not radical enough and fails to address the issues of today, nor the fact that many of those issues will be worse in the not to distant future

So, how would YOU run the country…well…I would do it like this, and please, bear in mind that in most cases, where I would make monetary suggestions…I have limited information on the amounts of money actually floating around…Lets face it none of us have ANY real idea of the TRUE balance sheet of the nation. I merely propose the ideas for reasonable discussion…..If your input is going to be limited to “wanker
” “pillock” “twat” etc …don’t bother replying, if however you can make CONSTRUCTIVE comment, or back your point with REAL figures, then great…

Financial policy

1, leave the EU as fast as is practicable, if necessary subsidising British interests in order to speed it up
Disagree, to me there are far more benefits within a reformed EU

2, cancel ALL foreign aid, except where such aid is clearly and independantly demonstrated to be properly used to the benefit of the intended recipients
Disagree, we have helped many through foreign aid and where there is abuses should not be a means to stop doing what is right to do and we as a nation can afford to help

3, tear up any and all agreements to pay anyone any “carbon taxes”
Divided on

4, increase duty on All alcohol and smoking material by 10% per year for 10 years
Seems a tad harsh why not increase also on high fat foods are sugary foods like sweets to help against obesity.

5, cease all expenditure on anti smoking advertising…if people want to smoke…its up to them…and they bring in more in duty than they cost in health care..
Agreed

6, reduce vehicle excise duty on all vehicles to a nominal £20 per year to cover registration costs
Agreed

7 increase the rate of fuel duty by 30p this year and by 10p per year for the next 5 years
Agreed

8,
9 legalise cannabis and make it duty payed the same as tobacco
You missed 8? But very much agree on cannabis and we should decimalize most drugs, which to me would reduce crminality

10 legalise prostitution, making the bordello owner legally responsible for the health care of the girls. Make street prostitution strictly illegal with severe penalties for breaches of this law…especially for the pimps
Makes sense

Now this is whats gonna bite…..

11…remove ALL state benefits pensions etc

now…stop slavering…..wait….down you dog called the left,

12…replace it with a SINGLE…UNTAXABLE state payment, payable to ALL UK citizens over the age of 16, on a residency basis ONLY…at a level which provides a bare minimum standard of living ( I would guess that’s about at statutory minimum wage level)
Interesting

13 remove the statutory minimum wage
Replace with living wage?

14 remove all tax allowances
The Jury is out on that

15 All income beyond the state payment to be taxed at 50% up to 150,000
Will kill business

16 over 150,000 taxed at 75%
Will kill business, just look at France

17 make all tax returns the duty of the EMPLOYER…..with heavy penalties for defaulters
Interesting

Reasoning:

1 the EU costs us more than it brings to us, both in terms of fixed costs and invisible costs

2 foreign aid is mainly misused, and in the situation we are in…we cant afford it

3 man made climate change is a load of old cobblers…made up to subjugate the west
yes the climates changing…but its been doing that for years…also…an interesting fact…that Icelandic volcano that hiccupped a bit back…wiped out the last 10 years carbon savings…and the next 20 to come….…..no point paying through the nose to fight nature…

4, it’s a good cash cow

5 need I say more, and I’m sick of the nanny state

6 & 7 transfer the VED to fuel duty…he who uses most pays most

8 watch this space…

9 more money to the exchequer…and …ask a cop who he would sooner scrape up from the door way…a drunk or a pothead???

10…why not…about time we caught up with the 21st century…and just think of the income tax…not to mention the vat and duty….

11….17

this is the really serious bit of this….

We have, on all sides of the political divide, to realise that for good or bad, and for whatever reason and regardless of who’s “fault it is , the world has changed mightily.
2-3 generations have lived in a system where there has been little hope of a job, such jobs as are available are seen as demeaning and or unpleasant. It has also to be recognised that many jobs which would have sustained most of these folk have gone for good…exported…destroyed. There is a job gulf bigger than ever before…its either cleaning the loos or a degree position…so we have to recognise that there are a lot, an awful lot, of folks who are going to be loo cleaners….NOT.
It must also be recognised that due to years of poor social education, poor parental and teacher leadership, and the sickening creep of socialist sheeping visible in soaps and the brainless useless celebrity magazines….there are a lot of folks who are psychologically incapable of work in any sustained manner, but who would, if given the chance do some part time work here and there In order to better themselves. Those who WANT to work…will…and despite a higher tax band etc would still be much better of even I suspect than at present.

We should get away from the Victorian “christian work ethic”…that is no longer fit for the purpose, and instead focus on creating a society where fairness means a relaxed attitude to working, where working is as much for self improvement as it is for “stuffing the wallet of the industrialist” and at the same time recognising that not everyone is born to be top man….as Einstein said….”Vell….Ve cant all be first violinners in der orchestra, some of us have to push der vindt through der trombone”

Yes there will be those who will just say oki …I’ll take the state wage and put me feet up….but then that’s where they will stay…...some will say well I want a bit more…and do part time ..here and there jobs…easy to do with no dole office idiots to try to negotiate part time work with… others will as they always have…get on with things and get well paid full time jobs..with the state wage making up for the loss due to higher taxes etc…and with some to spare in the middle bracket…which most of us belong to I suspect.

I strongly suspect that such a move would benefit everyone, providing financial security for all, at the penalty of just retargeting costs and payments.

Finally let me ask you to read carefully and think through the implications of this approach…I know there are things implicit in this that I haven’t made obvious…due to time…and the fact I cant think and type at the same time Things like the cost of providing the present benefits costs as much or more as the benfits themselves…get rid of the benefits and you get back double…

More to follow if you want it…or even if you don’t….

Too tired to respond to your reasons but will answer tomorrow.
Though very interesting

Night Victor

by eddie Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:40 am

Funny too, as I know at least three Bulgarian women - british citizens - voting UKIP...?

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