U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees

by Ben Reilly Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:29 am

The Great Recession might be over (in the US, at least) but it has left behind widened racial inequality in unemployment and wealth.

The unemployment rate for white Americans over 25 who had not finished high school was 9.7% in 2013. The unemployment rate for black Americans who went to college but didn’t graduate, meanwhile, was 10.5%.

This same trend can be seen among recent college graduates. Unemployment for black graduates between the ages of 22 and 27 was at 12.4% in 2013, compared to 5.6% for all college grads in that age range, according to a May report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research (pdf). The number was even lower for white college graduates in the age range—4.9%, the study’s co-author told the New York Times.

http://qz.com/318356/white-americans-who-dont-finish-high-school-have-better-job-prospects-than-black-americans-who-went-to-college/

Clearly, doing what society tells you to do is not enough if you're black.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:35 am

Or a woman.

by Ben Reilly Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:04 am

Well, for a woman I think it's pretty much impossible to humanly do what Western society tells you to do ... but for black people, the right has always maintained that if they were just to act white enough, they'd be treated as first-class citizens. The stats don't lie, though, and the fact is, if you're unlucky enough to be named something like Keyshawn, you're going to have to fight even harder to get that job no matter how good the job actually is.

I'm tired of the message that the system works for anyone willing to appear squeaky-clean and mainstream. Clearly prejudice still has a lot of power, and the only power that can oppose that is government.

by Lone Wolf Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:17 pm

ONLY goes to prove that good ol' fashioned prejudices are still alive and well in our modern world...

AND JUST more proof of how much "college degrees" are over valued too many times in the USA (and in Australia, Canada, NZ, Britain, Russia, India, China, S. Korea, Sigapore, et al..).

JUST consider for a moment how long our modern overly-specialised communities, societies and "economies" might hang in together there, without all of those 'non-degree' positions such as tradesmen, farmhands, fisherman, foresters, miners, factory and millworkers, process operators, nursing and teachers' 'aides', truck and train drivers, checkout chicks, bookkeepers, storemen, ambulance officers, firies, police and soldiers, general labourers ~ all of those whose jobs keep the systems "ticking over"..

[AND this also doesn't touch on the contributions of unpaid (and largely under-appreciated..) volunteers, family labourers, community groups, stay-at-home housewives and parents, carers and the likes, to supporting our communities..].

MANY people tend to forget that some 70% of modern day jobs still DON'T require University degrees to qualify for admission.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:00 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Well, for a woman I think it's pretty much impossible to humanly do what Western society tells you to do ... but for black people, the right has always maintained that if they were just to act white enough, they'd be treated as first-class citizens. The stats don't lie, though, and the fact is, if you're unlucky enough to be named something like Keyshawn, you're going to have to fight even harder to get that job no matter how good the job actually is.

I'm tired of the message that the system works for anyone willing to appear squeaky-clean and mainstream. Clearly prejudice still has a lot of power, and the only power that can oppose that is government.

I repeat...or for women.

The difficulty with institutional bias is that it goes largely unrecognized by those who hold it. If it is recognized, that is because it is embedded in some time-honored fable about different roles in society.

After all, why don't blacks all become basketball players if they want money?

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:37 am

Lone Wolf wrote:
ONLY goes to prove that good ol' fashioned prejudices are still alive and well in our modern world...

AND JUST more proof of how much "college degrees" are over valued too many times in the USA (and in Australia, Canada, NZ, Britain, Russia, India, China, S. Korea, Sigapore, et al..).

JUST consider for a moment how long our modern overly-specialised communities, societies and "economies" might hang in together there, without all of those 'non-degree' positions such as tradesmen, farmhands, fisherman, foresters, miners, factory and millworkers, process operators, nursing and teachers' 'aides', truck and train drivers, checkout chicks?, bookkeepers?, storemen, ambulance officers, firies, police and soldiers, general labourers ~ all of those whose jobs keep the systems "ticking over"..

[AND this also doesn't touch on the contributions of unpaid (and largely under-appreciated..) volunteers, family labourers, community groups, stay-at-home housewives and parents, carers and the likes, to supporting our communities..].

MANY people tend to forget that some 70% of modern day jobs still DON'T require University degrees to qualify for admission.

All the bolded require some sort of qualification now
and ? really Rolling Eyes

what the fuck is a book keeper Razz

it's called a computer and data entry

Check out chick already made obsolete by self service checkouts Wink

by Original Quill Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:45 am

I hate self-service checkouts. It's not just me...lines can be waaaay backed up, and no one will use them. Reason? If anything goes wrong, you are off trying to find some clerk to fix it...and s/he doesn't know how.

By the way...the something goes wrong part? Happens about 40% of the time. The retail game depends upon the computers not having the right prices. Erm...funny thing, the mistake is always upwards. And unlike me, most people don't look at their receipt.

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:I hate self-service checkouts. It's not just me...lines can be waaaay backed up, and no one will use them. Reason? If anything goes wrong, you are off trying to find some clerk to fix it...and s/he doesn't know how.

By the way...the something goes wrong part? Happens about 40% of the time. The retail game depends upon the computers not having the right prices. Erm...funny thing, the mistake is always upwards. And unlike me, most people don't look at their receipt.

I sometime watch the old and non technical struggle with the checkouts.
they work when you follow the process.... which is generally explained poorly.

the price thing doesn't happen here, for starters shelf price is the price you pay ALL the time it is illegal to advertise a lower price and say 'plus tax'. If they were caught actively trying to short change people the ACCC would take them to the cleaners.

And the receipt is displayed on screen as you go (counting up total and 'saving' in real time) this is Australia so if the thing was saying the $2 thing was $3 we just walk out with out paying Or Punch it, and as fixing the computer costs way more than a dollar it is just not a good gamble for the retailer to take.
cheers

Remember 25 million Aussie Steal/Pirate more Movies and TV than 250 million Americans and that is not per capita Exclamation

by Original Quill Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:50 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I hate self-service checkouts. It's not just me...lines can be waaaay backed up, and no one will use them. Reason? If anything goes wrong, you are off trying to find some clerk to fix it...and s/he doesn't know how.

By the way...the something goes wrong part? Happens about 40% of the time. The retail game depends upon the computers not having the right prices. Erm...funny thing, the mistake is always upwards. And unlike me, most people don't look at their receipt.

I sometime watch the old and non technical struggle with the checkouts.
they work when you follow the process.... which is generally explained poorly.

the price thing doesn't happen here, for starters shelf price is the price you pay ALL the time it is illegal to advertise a lower price and say 'plus tax'. If they were caught actively trying to short change people the ACCC would take them to the cleaners.

And the receipt is displayed on screen as you go (counting up total and 'saving' in real time) this is Australia so if the thing was saying the $2 thing was $3 we just walk out with out paying Or Punch it, and as fixing the computer costs way more than a dollar it is just not a good gamble for the retailer to take.

Remember 25 million Aussie Steal/Pirate more Movies and TV than 250 million Americans and that is not per capita

Not so, veya. Safeway, the store where I shop, is the second largest retail business in the US. The retail business only makes money if they can deceive the customer. So the shelf price is often mis-matched with the price in the computer. Oh, they aren’t obvious, but the clerks are taught how to move the product over to the side just enough that there is confusion about the real price. The Federal Trade Commission is the one that monitors and polices the stores, and most of the top stores are on the high-end list.

Mis-matched prices occur about 40% of the time. Many people go about their business, blissfully ignorant that they are being cheated. If you are a hawk at the check-out stand, like me, the mistake gets caught right then and there. But if you don’t watch, or if you go to one of those automatic check-out machines, then you have to go to the store office and have the store personnel there correct it.

At a rate of 40%, it’s far more to advantageous to have a clerk doing the check out. You can catch ‘em and make them do the correction right then and there. Otherwise, you spend an extra half-hour getting it corrected at the office.

Also, listen to the prices, don’t depend upon the screen. The screen is programmed to reflect the non-discount price and the only way to be sure is to go over the receipt, which has the actual charged price at the right-hand side. Discuss every price charged with the clerk, and if something is on sale let him know you know it. You still may have to go to the office now and then, but most of them will be caught at the check-stand.

You will bat 0.0% without the clerk.

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:27 pm

if the machine say it wants more so you give it the right amount and walk off pirat

I think yours might not be as advanced Neutral

Coles have done really well.
I have noticed software upgrades to improve a few of the annoyances they had at first and they loosened the anti-theft controls (stupid... if you plan to steal you'll just walk out)
U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM0JCXxUCScZ4pyrjhwBEYG-cZntvDH6LaTG5hfKper18cSMx_Gg

U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM0JCXxUCScZ4pyrjhwBEYG-cZntvDH6LaTG5hfKper18cSMx_Gg

I pay attention to prices (I normally use cash and try to minimize coins I'm left with) they are pretty much always the same the only times I have noticed the computer has been right but the checkout chick has grabbed the wrong notes.

I was against them at first but they are a lot quicker if you know how to uses them.

by Original Quill Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:59 am

veya_victaous wrote:if the machine say it wants more so you give it the right amount and walk off

I think yours might not be as advanced
Coles have done really well.
I have noticed software upgrades to improve a few of the annoyances they had at first and they loosened the anti-theft controls (stupid... if you plan to steal you'll just walk out)

I pay attention to prices (I normally use cash and try to minimize coins I'm left with) they are pretty much always the same the only times I have noticed the computer has been right but the checkout chick has grabbed the wrong notes.

I was against them at first but they are a lot quicker if you know how to uses them.

It's a simple matter of matching the price on the shelf to the price in the computer. When it doesn't work, it's human error...somebody didn't do that.

So then, it takes a human to fix the problem. That's why the unattended check out system doesn't work...yet.

And I'm not convinced it's unintentional. Safeway would love to have only those customers who walk away blissfully ignorant, or who don't want to bother to correct an overcharge. And mark my word, it's never an undercharge. That's why I believe it's intentional.

The store does as much as it can to make understanding what is going on too difficult. You can't read the screen when check out is going on. The machine constantly over-rings. Having no one at check out to correct an error is just another impediment the store puts in place to prevent you from complaining or correcting the matter. I am only successful because I persevere.

by Lone Wolf Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:19 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:.........................

JUST consider for a moment how long our modern overly-specialised communities, societies and "economies" might hang in together there, without all of those 'non-degree' positions such as tradesmen, farmhands, fisherman, foresters, miners, factory and millworkers, process operators, nursing and teachers' 'aides', truck and train drivers, checkout chicks?, bookkeepers?, storemen, ambulance officers, firies, police and soldiers, general labourers ~ all of those whose jobs keep the systems "ticking over"..
......................

All the bolded require some sort of qualification now

"Tickets", certificates, "statements", licenses and "authorities", Diplomas...

ALL of which are gained from 'non-University' Tertiary institutions and 'VETAB'-style trainers..

and ? really what the fuck is a book keeper it's called a computer and data entry

"Bookkeepers", "financial controllers" and "clerks" are still valid and proper job descriptions within many organisations and workplaces ~ even though they may have disappeared from TAFE and Business College courses.

Check out chick already made obsolete by self service checkouts
A LOT of people up here are refusing to use those self serve job-takers..

by veya_victaous Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:49 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:.........................

JUST consider for a moment how long our modern overly-specialised communities, societies and "economies" might hang in together there, without all of those 'non-degree' positions such as tradesmen, farmhands, fisherman, foresters, miners, factory and millworkers, process operators, nursing and teachers' 'aides', truck and train drivers, checkout chicks?, bookkeepers?, storemen, ambulance officers, firies, police and soldiers, general labourers ~ all of those whose jobs keep the systems "ticking over"..
......................

All the bolded require some sort of qualification now

"Tickets", certificates, "statements", licenses and "authorities", Diplomas...

ALL of which are gained from 'non-University' Tertiary institutions and 'VETAB'-style trainers..

Police and Ambulance are both University degrees. and that doesn't change the fact they are just a specialized and require as much (although cheaper) time to gain full qualifications, Tradies still take 4 years to complete an apprenticeship I did my degree in 3 and half

and ? really what the fuck is a book keeper it's called a computer and data entry

"Bookkeepers", "financial controllers" and "clerks" are still valid and proper job descriptions within many organisations and workplaces ~ even though they may have disappeared from TAFE and Business College courses.
only in obsolete offices, most people employed as clerks actually work in IT and have Degrees. A book keeper is now Data entry even Financial Controllers (Unless they are qualified accountants which requires a degree now) are just glorified data entry

Check out chick already made obsolete by self service checkouts
A LOT of people up here are refusing to use those self serve job-takers..

lol @ old people

And you admit they are as good that is why they can take the job of the checkout chick

by Lone Wolf Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:03 am

AMBULANCE (via Nursing faculties..) and POLICE Studies diplomas [2 yrs] and degrees are only needed IF officers want to progress past a certain promotion level in their careers ~ they are not a requirement to join either service, nor are they necessary to remain in those services if the person in question is happy to stay at an intermediate level...

AND of course they then only have to do those studies part-time ~ a couple of units a year, while still working f/t.. U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees 479860004

U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees 479860004

(I know how that system works through applying to join the Ambulance service a couple of times several years ago ~ made it through entry applications [heavy !] and tests easily enough, and sat a couple of interviews, but still missed out on their final admissions quota [out of more than 2000 sitting the exams, less than 400 people were interviewed for 220 training positions] - where I blitzed all their tests, but still didn't make that final cutoff..).

by Ben Reilly Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:28 am

In the U.S. police are given a gun and a generic photo of a black guy Smile

No, I knew some LE types in university and they all were aspiring for detective rank at the least, if not chief of police, which is more politics than police-work. Most of our cops are fairly blue-collar types (and most are decent enough people, I should add). And they don't get paid much, unless they're on the forces of the richer communities where they don't have as much crime to begin with scratch

by Ben Reilly Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:31 am

I tried out for police academy years ago -- aced the brains test but couldn't pass the physical because I can't figure out how in the hell you get over an eight-foot wall without a ladder. Talk about barriers to entry, mine was literal ...

by Lone Wolf Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:32 am

HERE in Oz they only have to hop over a six-foot or so high timber fence, after dragging a "body" up a laneway, run a set distance within a maximum time, etc...

THERE are certain techniques/tricks that make it reasonably easy to "spring" over a fence, (and that several members on here (like Victor and nicko, for example) probably knew about in their long-ago younger days..) ~ I could manage a 5' or 6' fence even when I was in my late 20s/early 30's; but there's simply no way that I could try it now without going *'Kersplat !'* tongue

WHAT would have kept me out of the Police back when were a couple of small disabilities ~ that at the same time wouldn't have stopped me joining the ambulance service or fire brigades, or the Army or other emergency services (I have joined a volunteer rescue service since; and I was in the Army Reserves back in the 1980s..). The NSW Police forces did loosen up and broaden their admission criteria in the late '80s - and while I could have then joined them in some capacities. it still wouldn't have been as a "general duties" cop.

COPS here in Oz are reasonably well paid these days ~ with a starting pay in the high $50k's and progressing up to the 70s and 80s after a few pay levels (that's similar territory to teachers and reg' nurses around here..); while the commanders and commissioners will be receiving executive style packages (with all of the responsibilities that go with those positions, as well..).

AMBULANCE and FIRIES aren't as well paid at their starting levels, but they're doing OK after 4 or 5 pay rises..

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Re: U.S.: White high school drop-outs do better in job market than black people with college degrees

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