Arizona shooting instructor was shot and killed showing a nine-year-old girl how to use an Uzi

AN Arizona shooting instructor was accidentally shot and killed while showing a nine-year-old girl how to use an automatic Uzi, authorities said.

Charles Vacca, 39, of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, died on Monday shortly after being airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas, Mohave County sheriff’s officials said.

Vacca was standing next to the girl at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range in White Hills when she pulled the trigger and the recoil sent the gun over her head, investigators said.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Also how do you know any of the girls not in the pictures, being this is the daily Mail do not sport shoot?

I see the point about sport shooting.  And not to enhance your argument, lol, but a bolt action .22 is the ideal weapon for a varmint shooting when trail riding in Arizona.

Still, I think those photographs were flat-waving for the NRA.  They weren't taken with a cactus in the background.  

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I see the point about sport shooting.  And not to enhance your argument, lol, but a bolt action .22 is the ideal weapon for a varmint shooting when trail riding in Arizona.

Still, I think those photographs were flat-waving for the NRA.  They weren't taken with a cactus in the background.  

So no live ammunition, would you then have an issue with a young girl posing with a gun, to a sport she enjoys?
Again I am just trying to put things into perspective here and more to the point how people react to some things and ignore others. To me sadly guns have been invented, but from the time of the invention of weapons people have also played sports with them, which the later should never be associated as the same of enjoying to kill

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


So no live ammunition, would you then have an issue with a young girl posing with a gun, to a sport she enjoys?
Again I am just trying to put things into perspective here and more to the point how people react to some things and ignore others. To me sadly guns have been invented, but from the time of the invention of weapons people have also played sports with them, which the later should never be associated as the same of enjoying to kill

Well, I still look as a gun as a necessary evil.  Sure I take out a .45 on the trail, and it's necessary in my view.

But advertising a bolt action rifle by painting it pink?  It's like painting a bear trap with polka dots.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Well, I still look as a gun as a necessary evil.  Sure I take out a .45 on the trail, and it's necessary in my view.

But advertising a bolt action rifle by painting it pink?  It's like painting a bear trap with polka dots.

Any weapon is evil as it was originally designed to kill, however, if a better use can be found for that evil, then is that not a better way to use that evil?
We can all argue the merits of a sales pitch Quill, which if this was to a child who likes to sports shoot, then they have played up to the mentality of child of that age, again, I am against any live ammunition being used , as stated throughout this debate. It just really bugs me, when many people play the moral card on something and yet you could hear a pin drop on something similar, with children posing with real adult guns and even worse suicide vests and it does not even have the same views applied, which is more my point on all of this later part of this debate.

Didge wrote:
Hang on a minute, this is getting a wee tad out of place here basing pictures of girls with toy guns when nobody would even say a thing about boys playing soldiers posing with toy guns.
I totally agree with the view point about children for a start not being able to manage to fire such real weaponry and even more so using live ammunition, but to base view points on children who play war in the most playful manner is poor to say the least and many children train in the arts of shooting as a sport not a method to kill people, be it from archery to any form of skill shooting.

Original Quill wrote:They are real, though cheap firearms.  That is a bolt-action .22 in each case.  You don't have a bolt on an air rifle.


firstly that is wrong...I have a daystate MK 4 pcp air rifle..(sub 12 ft lbs didge...so not subject to FAC)
it is bolt fed and has 10 round magazine.....................however you are correct, those weapons are .22 lr rimfire..which should NOT be in the hands of kids that young EXCEPT whilst under instruction and or competing

And they are functioning.  Look how the bolt is up in pictures 2 and 3.

At least those two have been shown how to present "gun safe"  with bolt up  and chamber open and therefore safe.. and visibly so...full marks to whoever taught them...

 I can tell you as an American, this is the kind of thing that gun lovers would do.  They probably bought those firearms to "share" with the children.  And these are the first pictures, on their birthday or whenever.

By associating firearms with children you are sending the message that guns are good.  Typical NRA stuff.  Their reaction to such photographs is a kind of flag-waving.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:
they are real didge .22 calibre rifles

and marketed in pink to specifically appeal to little girks

sick and twisted

Sorry disagree if for sport.

If they were holding a bow and arrow or crossbow and were state junior champions and posed holding the weapons would you state sick and twisted?
....................................

Lone Wolf wrote:

Didge wrote:

Sorry disagree if for sport.

If they were holding a bow and arrow or crossbow and were state junior champions and posed holding the weapons would you state sick and twisted?
....................................

I would like to see any child even lift a crossbow, let alone draw it...

AS FOR "plastic" guns, Didge ~ are you aware that Glocks, M16s/15s/14s and Steyrs are all made out of plastics ?

victorisnotamused wrote:

Original Quill wrote:They are real, though cheap firearms.  That is a bolt-action .22 in each case.  You don't have a bolt on an air rifle.


firstly that is wrong...I have a daystate MK 4 pcp air rifle..(sub 12 ft lbs didge...so not subject to FAC)
it is bolt fed and has 10 round magazine.....................however you are correct, those weapons are .22 lr rimfire..which should NOT be in the hands of kids that young EXCEPT whilst under instruction and or competing

And they are functioning.  Look how the bolt is up in pictures 2 and 3.

At least those two have been shown how to present "gun safe"  with bolt up  and chamber open and therefore safe.. and visibly so...full marks to whoever taught them...

 I can tell you as an American, this is the kind of thing that gun lovers would do.  They probably bought those firearms to "share" with the children.  And these are the first pictures, on their birthday or whenever.

By associating firearms with children you are sending the message that guns are good.  Typical NRA stuff.  Their reaction to such photographs is a kind of flag-waving.

Didge wrote:Here you are Me lady, as you missed, where it is excused as firing at fireworks

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t6524-gaza-ceasefire-brings-incredible-scenes-in-gaza-as-palestinians-celebrate-victory

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:
Any weapon is evil as it was originally designed to kill, however, if a better use can be found for that evil, then is that not a better way to use that evil?
We can all argue the merits of a sales pitch Quill, which if this was to a child who likes to sports shoot, then they have played up to the mentality of child of that age, again, I am against any live ammunition being used , as stated throughout this debate. It just really bugs me, when many people play the moral card on something and yet you could hear a pin drop on something similar, with children posing with real adult guns and even worse suicide vests and it does not even have the same views applied, which is more my point on all of this later part of this debate.

I pretty much agree. I think when Veya posted those pictures, his point was the complete lack of understanding on the part of those lil girls as to what a gun was for.
As far as firearms go, a bolt action .22 as I said, is a very practical trail gun. Going back to the OP, there is no reason a little girl needs to fire an UZI. I understand she might have been fascinated by the UZI firearm, but if a little girl aspires to be a chemist when she grows up, you still don't give her cyanide to play with.
She did not belong in that place, with that weapon, and a man is dead because of it.

Didge wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote:


I would like to see any child even lift a crossbow, let alone draw it...

AS FOR "plastic" guns, Didge ~ are you aware that Glocks, M16s/15s/14s and Steyrs are all made out of plastics ?

Then you have no idea there are many competitions for children with crossbows, and archery, where the bow you need more strength than a gun to use.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Didge wrote:

Then you have no idea there are many competitions for children with crossbows, and archery, where the bow you need more strength than a gun to use.

CROSSBOWS are illegal in most Australian States (except WA, SA and Qld..) without special 'restricted' permits, Didgeri'...

AND don't forget my past pro-archery threads either ~ I do have three bows of my own here, inc. a couple of compounds..

AND the first bow I "shot" would have been cheap and basic fibreglass models when still primary school age.

veya_victaous wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737205/Gun-girls-America-Innocent-faces-Pink-rifles-After-horrific-shooting-9-year-old-children-grip-nation-s-troubling-obsession.html

Lily, 6, from Louisiana, told photographer An-Sofie Kesteleyn that she was afraid of zombies

Mackenzie, 8, wants her rifle to keep her safe from the devil according to a questionnaire she completed

Eight-year-old Abbey from Ohio wants her .22 caliber rifle in case she ever has to deal with a dinosaur

jaded fox wrote:I get all the points about shooting for sport but the pictures weren't abut that.

veya_victaous wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737205/Gun-girls-America-Innocent-faces-Pink-rifles-After-horrific-shooting-9-year-old-children-grip-nation-s-troubling-obsession.html

Lily, 6, from Louisiana, told photographer An-Sofie Kesteleyn that she was afraid of zombies

Mackenzie, 8, wants her rifle to keep her safe from the devil according to a questionnaire she completed

Eight-year-old Abbey from Ohio wants her .22 caliber rifle in case she ever has to deal with a dinosaur

None of the quotes say that the girls enjoyed shooting targets or anything sports related. They want the guns to protect them from zombies, the devil, and dinosaurs. I don't see any indication in the article that they were joking either. There was another one in there who wanted a laser sight for hers because she's afraid of sharks. This isn't about sport this is about fear and planning to shoot the things that scare them. It's not a good combination.

Didge wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote:
  CROSSBOWS are illegal in most Australian States (except WA, SA and Qld..) without special 'restricted' permits, Didgeri'...

AND don't forget my past pro-archery threads either ~ I do have three bows of my own here, inc. a couple of compounds..

AND the first bow I "shot" would have been cheap and basic fibreglass models when still primary school age.

No problems Bee, being as I have in my youth done much archery and think the bow takes greater skill than the crossbow anyway, so you agree with me then on such things being fine supervised for children, being as we were both young enjoying this sport when we first started?

Cass wrote:

Original Quill wrote:
I pretty much agree.  I think when Veya posted those pictures, his point was the complete lack of understanding on the part of those lil girls as to what a gun was for.
As far as firearms go, a bolt action .22 as I said, is a very practical trail gun.  Going back to the OP, there is no reason a little girl needs to fire an UZI.  I understand she might have been fascinated by the UZI firearm, but if a little girl aspires to be a chemist when she grows up, you still don't give her cyanide to play with.
She did not belong in that place, with that weapon, and a man is dead because of it.

agreed and now she will have to bear that trauma for the rest of her life.

as to didges POV on children engaging in sports with weapons - no I don't agree with it under the age of 16 and barely at that. we don't let people marry or vote or join the armed forces or drink until older ages so I don't see why it isn't illegal to allow children access to weapons because their families think its ok. in my opinion its not and to see gun manufacturer. specifically targetting girls by painting real guns pink is just sick in my view as it would be by painting them camp for boys or whatever. Nobody would let an adult who believed in Zombies or dinosaurs have access to weapons would they?