Secret talks to give EU powers over policing

Secret talks to give EU powers over policing


Ministers have opened the door to the sharing of DNA records, a move likely to enrage Tory Eurosceptics


David Cameron has secretly agreed to work towards the transfer of more
policing powers to Europe despite worries over costs and the potential risk
to innocent Britons.


British ministers have told EU leaders that they will make a decision on
whether to take part in a controversial Europe-wide DNA database by December
1 next year — six months after the next election.


They signed off a list of 35 areas of cooperation with Brussels a week before
the prime minister used the recent EU summit to mount what he described as a
“principled” last stand against the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker.


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4139569.ece


And here....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10947132/Rightwing-Tory-MPs-to-defy-David-Cameron-over-EU-power-grab.html





So while Cameron is talking tough on Europe he is actually signing more of our powers away to Brussels.



More reasons to vote UKIP as the pro EU lib lab con cosy alliance carries on selling out this country bit by bit, "progressively"!!!



There will be no renegotiation and no referendum under lib lab con.

Never heard of Interpol? Good, glad they are sharing DNA and then some scumbag peado or murderer will not be able to move to another country and not be traced. They will be able to verify who he/she is without extradition.

Big difference between interpol and giving More powers to EU.


We already have interpol so don't need EU having police powers.


Interpol is not EU.


Or didn't you know that....!?



We joined the EU as a simple trade arrangement, not to be ruled by a federal superstate dictatorship, or to give away any of our national sovereignty or powers.


This is what has happened and is still ongoing as they try to grab more And more of what's left.



Vote UKIP!!!

Interpol was police forces across Europe working together. Good, I'm glad they can now do a better job of tracking criminals down. Or perhaps you would rather they weren't tracked down?

So basically what Matti is saying is that he wants the UK to become a safe haven for criminals, that they will not have the Police issue warrants for their arrests made by the EU if they have committed crimes abroad!

We already have interpol.


We already have national police forces.

And we already have the 'international arrest warrant'.

Why does the EU, which is about trade, need to start trying to control policing?


It is just more power grab.





The International Criminal Police Organization, or INTERPOL, is an intergovernmental organization facilitating international police cooperation. It was established as the International Criminal Police Commission (ICPC) in 1923 and adopted its telegraphic address as its common name in 1956.[3]
Interpol has an annual budget of around €70 million most of which is provided through annual contributions by its membership of 190 countries. The organization's headquarters is in Lyon, France. It is the second largest intergovernmental organization after the United Nations by member states. In 2012, the Interpol General Secretariat employed a staff of 703 representing 98 member countries.[1] Its current Secretary-General is Ronald Noble, a former United States Under Secretary of the Treasury for Enforcement. Succeeding Khoo Boon Hui, its current President is Deputy Central Director of the French Judicial Police Mireille Balestrazzi.
To keep Interpol as politically neutral as possible, its constitution forbids it, at least in theory, from undertaking interventions or activities of a political, military, religious, or racial nature.[4] Its work focuses primarily on public safety, terrorism, crimes against humanity, environmental crime, genocide, war crimes[citation needed], organized crime, piracy, illicit traffic in works of art, illicit drug production, drug trafficking, weapons smuggling, human trafficking, money laundering, child pornography, white-collar crime, computer crime, intellectual property crime and corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol

So Matti wants to make this country a safe haven for criminals.

Straw man anyone....???




The open door immigration policies and soft on crime already makes this country a safe haven for criminals.

And any money given to EU would be best spent here directly, and some of it could be used directly against figugmg crime.

I am against the EU federal dictatorship and I want powers to be coming back from EU, not more given away.


This new proposed give away just shows that it is business as usual, talk tough is just hot air and waffle, no give aways will trigger a referendum as promised.


They will keep on chipping away, "progressively", until there is nothing left.

Address the op and points.

The doors to immigration are not soft on crime, unless you can know who is a criminal.
So again matti wants the UK to be a safe haven for criminals and does not want to work with the EU to help prosecute them, even worse to allow safe haven for terrorists as well

Still putting up that straw man I see.....



As you cannot address the points raised.



Also no comment on the hypocrisy from this govt, talking tough on EU while at the same time giving more away!?

What points, all the article states is Tory Mps wanting to vote against.
So again Mattie wants a safe haven for terrorists and criminals here, to have the ability to delay proceedings against them being removed, costing countless money

No the article shows that while Cameron is trying to talk tough on EU and telling us how he wants powers coming back from Brussels, what is actually happening is that more powers are being secretly planned to be given away!!!



Plus that the rule on referendum being triggered if more powers are handed over is just another part of the big lie.




The fact is that foreign criminals shouldn't be able to travel here or anywhere else in the first place!!!



And if we had stronger borders and proper controls in place, visas/work permits etc, instead of this open door EU free movement, then they wouldn't be able to get here.




But under the current free movement system they can come and go as They please and when here are protected from removal by the EU rules again.

Which is what I said, it is about Tories and their differences over this, you though want to have a safe haven for criminals and terrorists, where it takes years to extradite them and at great cost

I have made it clear that I don't want a safe haven here for criminals, this is just a straw man argument from you and totally irrelevant to op and points raised.



it is open borders that allows foreign criminals to get here unchecked and it is European rules that prevent us from removing them swiftly as we would like.




All of this is a side issue to the op and points raised.




This is about Cameron talking tough on EU and saying he wants to take back powers while at the same time secretly arranging for more powers to be given away to Brussels.



The EU is trying to set itself up as a European federal government with total power and control over UK and every other European country.



And being as this has no democratic mandate through consent of the people it purports to represent, then it is no more than a dictatorship and is being enabled by more treacherous national government politicians.

Nope this is about working in conjunction with the EU to deal with criminals and terrorists, where Britain has opted out of applying the points to now wish to apply some of them.

So again you wish to make this country a safe haven from criminals and terrorists, if has nothing to do with immigration, as we are mainly dealing here with British people who have committed crimes abroad.

You need to look further into what you are claiming to understand because as per usual you know nothing about it!

TM, when you have a dozen borders between some EU countries and you, doesn't it make sense for the EU to have more policing powers?

It seems to me this is a separate issue from whether the UK wants to actually remain in the EU. It is now, and it's pretty obvious Interpol can't police all those borders by itself.

So at least in theory, giving the EU more policing power makes the UK and all EU states more safe from criminals. Lord knows you have enough of it as it is. It seems to me that you're kind of just using this as a convenient bludgeon against the EU, which I understand you want no part of, but to be fair, it makes sense. It's the same reason the U.S. has the FBI -- we need a law enforcement agency that isn't confined by state borders. Otherwise criminals just cross a border and they're safe.

We are not the USA.



Every country already has its national police force and we can and do already cooperate with others when necessary.




This is just more EU power grab.

FGS you idiot, all they are doing is allowing the sharing of DNA records that Interpol has not been allowed to do before so that criminals can be traced and not be able to hide in another country and the extradition process can be simplified and made less expensive.

Get a grip.

The EU is not interpol you idiot

And thus to conclude Matto wants to protect paedophiles and terrorists from extradition from the UK

Still putting up that straw man I see dodge....




“We have a golden opportunity to show we can renegotiate terms with the EU and
repatriate powers, so our law enforcement relationship is based on
operational cooperation, not sacrificing democratic control. It is vital we
take it.”

Stephen Booth, the research director at thinktank Open Europe, said: “It is
hard to see how handing the EU more power over crime and policing is
consistent with David Cameron’s remarks at the last EU summit at which he
argued for greater powers for national parliaments and a looser relationship
with Brussels.

Again you ant to deny criminals, terrorist being extradited for their crimes, we know Tommy, it is okay, some of us want to see justice and without countless court cases to deny them from leaving.
I thought you hated all these legal crap that hinders justice

Criminals can already be extradited.


It is EU human rights legislation that labour enshrined in law that often delays/prevents this.



"... our law enforcement relationship is based on
operational cooperation, not sacrificing democratic control..."

Tommy Monk wrote:Criminals can already be extradited.


It is EU human rights legislation that labour enshrined in law that often delays/prevents this.



"... our law enforcement relationship is based on
operational cooperation, not sacrificing democratic control..."

As seen not very easily and can take years and costs are astronomical, thus again you wish to make this a safe haven for criminals and terrorists

Straw man still dodge......



As I already said, most cases which are difficult to extradite people is because of European human rights laws that labour enshrined into our law.

Wrong again, it's because they have to have absolute proof of who they are.   With DNA they will have that.

Rubbish.

Tommy Monk wrote:Still putting up that straw man I see dodge....




“We have a golden opportunity to show we can renegotiate terms with the EU and
repatriate powers, so our law enforcement relationship is based on
operational cooperation, not sacrificing democratic control. It is vital we
take it.”

Stephen Booth, the research director at thinktank Open Europe, said: “It is
hard to see how handing the EU more power over crime and policing is
consistent with David Cameron’s remarks at the last EU summit at which he
argued for greater powers for national parliaments and a looser relationship
with Brussels.

Theresa May is currently re-negotiating our relationship with the EU with plans to opt out of around 133 EU justice laws and opt back in on the one's that she thinks are relevant to the UK so to say that nothing is being done is wrong.

I'm not so sure that she is right but until we see the results and the effects it would have we need to reserve judgement and weigh up the pro's and cons when and if it happens.

Europol (SOCA) is more relevant to the UK in terms of cross border police cooperation than Interpol.

I can't help but notice the EU seems to get it's own way on more or less everything. If the Brits are really sick of them why don't they stand up to the politicians or is it most don't care or even worse in favour of being controlled from Brussels.

I suspect the former, lets face it the British public can't be bothered with politics indeed I believe most simply don't understand, your Education system is a laughing stock.

According to the polls Labour is still favourite despite its pro EU stance. The Brits must love being shafted.

Two gullible idiots out vote a genius........

Tommy Monk wrote:Two gullible idiots out vote a genius........

And that is why you should just let me vote for you            

You are definately gullible and an idiot.....



But that still only adds up to one person.......although you do try promote two different views at the same time, for example, you continually put up the argument that UK is best off in the EU although also claiming that your country Australia would benefit from UK and others not being in EU through increased trade with less tariffs....



Most confusing......

Just because we are in the EU doesn't mean we can't trade with Australia and set up our own tariffs. All you people who are against the EU seem to be very confused on things like that.

The two gullible idiots that I immediately thought of were yourself and canada lad, aka Drinky. He tried very hard to say the same things he always does but in a slightly different manner and without resorting to abuse, but it was obvious how difficult it was for him.   

Tommy Monk wrote:You are definately gullible and an idiot.....



But that still only adds up to one person.......although you do try  promote two different views at the same time, for example, you continually put up the argument that UK is best off in the EU although also claiming that your country Australia would benefit from UK and others not being in EU through increased trade with less tariffs....



Most confusing......

You are really don't understand how trade works do you?
if you don't understand economics yes it is confusing but but nothing beyond 2nd year university level.

the EU (UK included) doubles the price of our major exports SO that you can compete with the Price we could sell it for AFTER sending from the other side of the planet. WE and many other nations only accept Your Shitty trade offers because it is an ALL or NOTHING deal with all of the EU. Individually we would be telling you to go fuck your self and make you make a Fairer deal. Individually no European nation is major trade power together you are the 2nd biggest. That make a HUGE difference in your bargaining power.

So why does veya say that Australia is restricted from trading with UK and others EU countries by high tariffs...???

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:You are definately gullible and an idiot.....
But that still only adds up to one person.......although you do try  promote two different views at the same time, for example, you continually put up the argument that UK is best off in the EU although also claiming that your country Australia would benefit from UK and others not being in EU through increased trade with less tariffs....
Most confusing......

You are really don't understand how trade works do you?
if you don't understand economics yes it is confusing but but nothing beyond 2nd year university level.
the EU (UK included) doubles the price of our major exports SO that you can compete with the Price we could sell it for AFTER sending from the other side of the planet. WE and many other nations only accept Your Shitty trade offers because it is an ALL or NOTHING deal with all of the EU. Individually we would be telling you to go fuck your self and make you make a Fairer deal. Individually no European nation is major trade power together you are the 2nd biggest. That make a HUGE difference in your bargaining power.

Again you advocate staying in EU although clearly also claiming that Australia would benefit through direct trade with individual countries......




Turkeys voting for Christmas anyone...!!!???

we have to pay 100% tariff on Beef

European Union
100%**
7,150 tonne quota (fiscal year)
In quota: 20%;above quota: 12.8% + 141.4-304.1 Euro/100kg

http://www.mla.com.au/Prices-and-markets/Overseas-markets/Market-access/Beef

So Yeah the fact your gov't adds a 100% tax to our goods when we try and sell them in the EU is a barrier. To be the same price on the shelf as your local guy we have to grow it, produce it and transport it all for half the total cost of your local guy getting it to market. the fact we can still sell stuff in the EU with the EU literally taking half the shelf price does suggest that IF the EU wasn't doubling the cost of our product just because it comes from outside the EU we woudl be able to significant undercut all your producers (and as we know from China in Manufacturing that means they close)


The EU is not good for Australia, it is bad for us but again 15 years ago when you said you were doing it we went and made new trade partners so have ended up better off simply because we adapt and move forward rather than clinging to old ideas and industries.
The EU is Good for the UK and all it's members by virtue of you all being weaker with out it. You are twigs, together we cant snap you but go out on your own and you are giving us a chance to   

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:You are definately gullible and an idiot.....
But that still only adds up to one person.......although you do try  promote two different views at the same time, for example, you continually put up the argument that UK is best off in the EU although also claiming that your country Australia would benefit from UK and others not being in EU through increased trade with less tariffs....
Most confusing......

You are really don't understand how trade works do you?
if you don't understand economics yes it is confusing but but nothing beyond 2nd year university level.
the EU (UK included) doubles the price of our major exports SO that you can compete with the Price we could sell it for AFTER sending from the other side of the planet. WE and many other nations only accept Your Shitty trade offers because it is an ALL or NOTHING deal with all of the EU. Individually we would be telling you to go fuck your self and make you make a Fairer deal. Individually no European nation is major trade power together you are the 2nd biggest. That make a HUGE difference in your bargaining power.

Again you advocate staying in EU although clearly also claiming that Australia would benefit through direct trade with individual countries......




Turkeys voting for Christmas anyone...!!!???

You understand the trade deal is currently more to your advantage than ours? if you separate it we be the other way around....

we are much better at it by virtue of practice and evidenced by the deals our nations got out of the USA for joining the Iraq war, we got as much dollar value as you for like a quarter of the military support.  ::D::  I didn't like Howard but he ran rings around Dubya when it came to wheeling and dealing. Blair seem a bit useless, played soft ball and got small returns   

You miss my point.



You want us to stay in EU although your country would be better off he we weren't.



So why are you eager for us to stay in EU?