19 elementary school children killed in mass shooting.

by Syl Tue May 24, 2022 10:49 pm

Bloody hell. Sad

At least 14 schoolchildren and one teacher have been killed in a shooting at a primary school in the US state of Texas, Governor Greg Abbott said, in the latest mass shooting in the United States.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday afternoon, Abbott said an 18-year-old gunman opened fire at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, a small community just over an hour west of San Antonio.

He shot and killed – horrifically, incomprehensibly – 14 students and killed one teacher,” Abbott said.

Abbott said the gunman was himself killed, apparently by police officers responding to the scene.

“The shooter was … an 18-year-old male who resided in Uvalde. It is believed that he abandoned his vehicle and entered into the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde with a handgun and he may have also had a rifle, but that is not yet confirmed,” the governor said.

Local police earlier said the shooting began at around noon local time (17:00 GMT).

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/24/14-children-1-teacher-killed-in-texas-school-shooting-governor

by Original Quill Tue May 24, 2022 11:23 pm

Old news in this part of the world.

by Syl Tue May 24, 2022 11:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:Old news in this part of the world.

It's one of the worst school shootings recorded....even in your part of the world.

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 12:06 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Old news in this part of the world.

It's one of the worst school shootings recorded....even in your part of the world.

Angry 18 year old males. Streets of Chicago, grocery stores of Buffalo and school rooms of South Texas.

White, black and brown.

Something is setting these boys off or they are not getting something they need.

Something is simmering under the surface..

by Syl Wed May 25, 2022 1:04 am

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

It's one of the worst school shootings recorded....even in your part of the world.

Angry 18 year old males. Streets of Chicago, grocery stores of Buffalo and school rooms of South Texas.

White, black and brown.

Something is setting these boys off or they are not getting something they need.

Something is simmering under the surface..

Seems your government is not anxious to find out.

"In America today, mass shootings remain the most terrible metric that distinguishes the country from the rest of the world. And thanks to a 22-year Federal ban on researching their causes, getting inside the minds of those responsible is largely the work of private investigators. For British journalist Alex Hannaford, who lives in Texas with his wife and daughter, when fear of the next attack became acute, he wrote to the 50 perpetrators currently incarcerated to find out how much danger he and his family face. Twelve wrote back....

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/mass-shootings-in-america-interviews

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 1:14 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Old news in this part of the world.

It's one of the worst school shootings recorded....even in your part of the world.

It was on December 14, 2012, in Newtown, Connecticut, United States, when 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. Twenty of the victims were children between six and seven years old, and six were adult staff members.

We've been there, done that. It's because guns and bearing arms are legal in the US. They are protected by the 2nd Amendment.

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 1:31 am

Now its 18 children, and 3 more adults, dead in Uvalde, TX. Anyone can carry a gun in Texas.

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 1:53 am

President: blah, blah, blah. Condolences to family, prayers for lost souls... Meh?

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 4:01 am

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Angry 18 year old males. Streets of Chicago, grocery stores of Buffalo and school rooms of South Texas.

White, black and brown.

Something is setting these boys off or they are not getting something they need.

Something is simmering under the surface..

Seems your government is not anxious to find out.

"In America today, mass shootings remain the most terrible metric that distinguishes the country from the rest of the world. And thanks to a 22-year Federal ban on researching their causes, getting inside the minds of those responsible is largely the work of private investigators. For British journalist Alex Hannaford, who lives in Texas with his wife and daughter, when fear of the next attack became acute, he wrote to the 50 perpetrators currently incarcerated to find out how much danger he and his family face. Twelve wrote back....

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/mass-shootings-in-america-interviews

That law just bans the CDC from doing research.

We have plenty of university studies, as well as law enforcement at the federal and state level.

That was actually a pretty good article, although the author needs to realize the most dangerous thing he will do in Texas is drive on the highway..

It just these mass shooting events are far more horrendous than people dying in one's and twos all over the state every day..

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 4:05 am

According to manufacturers of ADHD stimulants, they are associated with sudden death in children who have heart problems, whether those heart problems have been previously detected or not. They can bring on a bipolar condition in a child who didn't exhibit any symptoms of such a disorder before taking stimulants. They are associated with "new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility." They can cause "new psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices and believing things that are not true) or new manic symptoms." They commonly cause noticeable weight loss and trouble sleeping. In some children, some stimulants can cause the paranoid feeling that bugs are crawling on them. Facial tics. They can cause children's eyes to glaze over, their spirits to dampen. One study reported fears of being harmed by other children and thoughts of suicide.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/#:~:text=By%20the%20time%20they%20reach,side%20effects%20from%20those%20drugs.

Then there is this.

We medicate the hell out of our boys..

by Syl Wed May 25, 2022 11:46 am

Updated.

"A gunman killed 19 students and two teachers late Tuesday morning at a South Texas elementary school, Texas Department of Public Safety Lt. Chris Olivarez told the American-Statesman.

The 18-year-old gunman shot his grandmother before driving to Robb Elementary School in Uvalde and, armed with a rifle, overpowered a school officer and entered the school, DPS Sgt. Erick Estrada said. Estrada said the grandmother had been airlifted to a hospital and was in critical condition. Gov. Greg Abbott said earlier Tuesday that the woman had died.

A U.S. Border Protection agent, one of several officers responding to the scene, shot and killed the gunman, a senior Department of Homeland Security official told USA TODAY on Tuesday night."

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 3:54 pm

It will never change. The reasons why will bore you. Suffice it to say that the same people who backed Trump, are anti-gun control. They think their star is still rising.

Off-islander, Senator Ted Cruz, foremost advocate of guns in America, just sees it as a rallying cry for gun enthusiasts, whom he identifies as all Republicans: Oh great...now the gun control Democrats will start up again!

by Eilzel Wed May 25, 2022 5:58 pm

Maddog wrote:According to manufacturers of ADHD stimulants, they are associated with sudden death in children who have heart problems, whether those heart problems have been previously detected or not. They can bring on a bipolar condition in a child who didn't exhibit any symptoms of such a disorder before taking stimulants. They are associated with "new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility." They can cause "new psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices and believing things that are not true) or new manic symptoms." They commonly cause noticeable weight loss and trouble sleeping. In some children, some stimulants can cause the paranoid feeling that bugs are crawling on them. Facial tics. They can cause children's eyes to glaze over, their spirits to dampen. One study reported fears of being harmed by other children and thoughts of suicide.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/#:~:text=By%20the%20time%20they%20reach,side%20effects%20from%20those%20drugs.

Then there is this.

We medicate the hell out of our boys..

Plenty of young people on medication here too. 0 school shootings.

What’s the difference?

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 7:21 pm

America has a love affair with their guns. Even if you made them illegal, Brother Esau would hide it behind the front seat in his pick up truck.

Governor Abbott, in a press conference today, described the motive of the Uvalde shooter as "pure evil". That's not a whole lot to go on, if you're trying to develop a theory of prevention. I mean, that's anyone who 'opposes you'. If we start there, we'll have a second civil war.

Abbott also said that long-guns have been legal for purchase in Texas for 60-years. When did the first school shooting take place in the US? Duh...it was 56-years ago, from the clock tower of the University of Texas, in Austin. No surprise there.

Apparently, it took a special forces-trained Border Patrol agent, to take the guy out. Even he was wounded. But he broke into the classroom where they say the shooter was holed up, and killed him.

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 8:43 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:According to manufacturers of ADHD stimulants, they are associated with sudden death in children who have heart problems, whether those heart problems have been previously detected or not. They can bring on a bipolar condition in a child who didn't exhibit any symptoms of such a disorder before taking stimulants. They are associated with "new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility." They can cause "new psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices and believing things that are not true) or new manic symptoms." They commonly cause noticeable weight loss and trouble sleeping. In some children, some stimulants can cause the paranoid feeling that bugs are crawling on them. Facial tics. They can cause children's eyes to glaze over, their spirits to dampen. One study reported fears of being harmed by other children and thoughts of suicide.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/#:~:text=By%20the%20time%20they%20reach,side%20effects%20from%20those%20drugs.

Then there is this.

We medicate the hell out of our boys..

Plenty of young people on medication here too. 0 school shootings.

What’s the difference?

Plenty less. A lot less.

The difference would be millions less medicated dramatically decreasing the number of young men who could have a serious adverse reaction to those drugs, or skipping those drugs.

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 8:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:America has a love affair with their guns. Even if you made them illegal, Brother Esau would hide it behind the front seat in his pick up truck.

Governor Abbott, in a press conference today, described the motive of the Uvalde shooter as "pure evil". That's not a whole lot to go on, if you're trying to develop a theory of prevention. I mean, that's anyone who 'opposes you'. If we start there, we'll have a second civil war.

Abbott also said that long-guns have been legal for purchase in Texas for 60-years. When did the first school shooting take place in the US? Duh...it was 56-years ago, from the clock tower of the University of Texas, in Austin. No surprise there.

Apparently, it took a special forces-trained Border Patrol agent, to take the guy out. Even he was wounded. But he broke into the classroom where they say the shooter was holed up, and killed him.

Long guns have always been legal for purchase in Texas.

Either Abbot is wrong or you're misquoting him.

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 8:52 pm

"The Centers for Disease Control first attempted to tally ADHD cases in 1997 and found that about 3 percent of American schoolchildren had received the diagnosis, a number that seemed roughly in line with past estimates. But after that year, the number of diagnosed cases began to increase by at least 3 percent every year. Then, between 2003 and 2007, cases increased at a rate of 5.5 percent each year. In 2013, the CDC released data revealing that 11 percent of American schoolchildren had been diagnosed with ADHD, which amounts to 6.4 million children between the ages of four and seventeen—a 16 percent increase since 2007 and a 42 percent increase since 2003. Boys are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed as girls—15.1 percent to 6.7 percent. By high school, even more boys are diagnosed—nearly one in five.

Almost 20 percent.

And overall, of the children in this country who are told they suffer from attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, two thirds are on prescription drugs.

And on this, too, everyone agrees: That among those millions of diagnoses, there are false ones. That there are high-energy kids—normal boys, most likely—who had the misfortune of seeing a doctor who had scant (if any) training in psychiatric disorders during his long-ago residency but had heard about all these new cases and determined that a hyper kid whose teacher said he has trouble sitting still in class must have ADHD. That among the 6.4 million are a significant percentage of boys who are swallowing pills every day for a disorder they don't have."

by Original Quill Wed May 25, 2022 9:00 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:America has a love affair with their guns. Even if you made them illegal, Brother Esau would hide it behind the front seat in his pick up truck.

Governor Abbott, in a press conference today, described the motive of the Uvalde shooter as "pure evil". That's not a whole lot to go on, if you're trying to develop a theory of prevention. I mean, that's anyone who 'opposes you'. If we start there, we'll have a second civil war.

Abbott also said that long-guns have been legal for purchase in Texas for 60-years. When did the first school shooting take place in the US? Duh...it was 56-years ago, from the clock tower of the University of Texas, in Austin. No surprise there.

Apparently, it took a special forces-trained Border Patrol agent, to take the guy out. Even he was wounded. But he broke into the classroom where they say the shooter was holed up, and killed him.

Long guns have always been legal for purchase in Texas.

Either Abbot is wrong or you're misquoting him.

by Maddog Wed May 25, 2022 11:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Long guns have always been legal for purchase in Texas.

Either Abbot is wrong or you're misquoting him.

What does that have to do with long guns always being legal for purchase?

They even used to be a available in the mail.

We could order government surplus rifles that were no longer being used.

by Original Quill Thu May 26, 2022 3:45 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What does that have to do with long guns always being legal for purchase?

They even used to be a available in the mail.

We could order government surplus rifles that were no longer being used.

Donno. Abbott seemed to feel that date was important as the date that long guns became legal.

by Original Quill Thu May 26, 2022 1:39 pm

Another thing that Abbott said that made me thing he wasn't all there: he said that mental illness causes these mass shootings. Yet, there is no study, nor professional opinion that proves the conclusion that mental illness is causative. You'd think, with all of this talk about mental illness in and around these shootings, that there would be some professional study in this area, somewhere, sometime.

Yet...none, nada, nunca, jamás. I guess the answer is, the gun people just want to change the subject...off of guns. We know guns are causative of death, and with the availability of them in the US its an easy answer...even for a sane person. How does mental illness enter the picture?

by Syl Thu May 26, 2022 2:21 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

Seems your government is not anxious to find out.

"In America today, mass shootings remain the most terrible metric that distinguishes the country from the rest of the world. And thanks to a 22-year Federal ban on researching their causes, getting inside the minds of those responsible is largely the work of private investigators. For British journalist Alex Hannaford, who lives in Texas with his wife and daughter, when fear of the next attack became acute, he wrote to the 50 perpetrators currently incarcerated to find out how much danger he and his family face. Twelve wrote back....

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/mass-shootings-in-america-interviews

That law just bans the CDC from doing research.

We have plenty of university studies, as well as law enforcement at the federal and state level.

That was actually a pretty good article, although the author needs to realize the most dangerous thing he will do in Texas is drive on the highway..

It just these mass shooting events are far more horrendous than people dying in one's and twos all over the state every day..

I am halfway through reading the article.
It's interesting.
Various triggers seem to light the fuse with these men, they are like unexploded bombs waiting to blow.

Bad home life from being kids, frustration, feeling of not being listened to, mental health issues like depression, and obviously easy access to guns.

Interesting that in some cases the mass shooters killed a family member just before they set out on their killing spree...just like this latest one.

by Original Quill Thu May 26, 2022 3:26 pm

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:

That law just bans the CDC from doing research.

We have plenty of university studies, as well as law enforcement at the federal and state level.

That was actually a pretty good article, although the author needs to realize the most dangerous thing he will do in Texas is drive on the highway..

It just these mass shooting events are far more horrendous than people dying in one's and twos all over the state every day..

I am halfway through reading the article.
It's interesting.
Various triggers seem to light the fuse with these men, they are like unexploded bombs waiting to blow.

Bad home life from being kids, frustration, feeling of not being listened to, mental health issues like depression, and obviously easy access to guns.

Interesting that in some cases the mass shooters killed a family member just before they set out on their killing spree...just like this latest one.

"Bad home?" "Frustration"? "Feeling of not being heard"? "Mental health issues like depression..." Three of those symptoms are not mental illness. The shooters, in every case, are simply aggressive men, who are having an adult temper tantrum.

The reason why Republicans are hiding these shooters’ motives is they are just like them: aggressive men, capable of having a temper tantrum. They want to preserve the occasion to behave just like them - to go shoot up the place if they don't get their way!

Seriously. Think about it. It isn’t mental illness, just a spoiled child.

by Syl Thu May 26, 2022 5:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I am halfway through reading the article.
It's interesting.
Various triggers seem to light the fuse with these men, they are like unexploded bombs waiting to blow.

Bad home life from being kids, frustration, feeling of not being listened to, mental health issues like depression, and obviously easy access to guns.

Interesting that in some cases the mass shooters killed a family member just before they set out on their killing spree...just like this latest one.

"Bad home?" "Frustration"? "Feeling of not being heard"? "Mental health issues like depression..." Three of those symptoms are not mental illness. The shooters, in every case, are simply aggressive men, who are having an adult temper tantrum.

The reason why Republicans are hiding these shooters’ motives is they are just like them: aggressive men, capable of having a temper tantrum. They want to preserve the occasion to behave just like them - to go shoot up the place if they don't get their way!

Seriously. Think about it. It isn’t mental illness, just a spoiled child.

Well it depends on what is termed a mental illness Quill.
Depression certainly is, it can be treated, but some of the men interviewed seemed to have not been prescribed suitable medication, they felt as if they were not being listened to.
On the other hand, some medications can cause depression and mood swings, so their mental state can't be overlooked either way.

I also hate the gun culture in your country. Some of the men interviewed did confess had they not had access to guns, those people would still be alive.

by Original Quill Thu May 26, 2022 6:19 pm

Syl wrote:Well it depends on what is termed a mental illness Quill.
Depression certainly is, it can be treated, but some of the men interviewed seemed to have not been prescribed suitable medication, they felt as if they were not being listened to.
On the other hand, some medications can cause depression and mood swings, so their mental state can't be overlooked either way.

I also hate the gun culture in your country. Some of the men interviewed did confess had they not had access to guns, those people would still be alive.

It ain’t mental illness. That’s a spoiled child’s cop-out. Mental illness is not anger. Anger is the state of almost all shooters. You look, in every case, and you'll see a source of anger - a situation or a social circle - that angered these guys, and the went off. These guys are in a state of out-of-control rage...the only thing that is different is they think it's all right to carry out their anger. Who does that? People who think they are privileged to do that.

We used to be able to take care of them with a quick hanging or, worse, a public stoning. We met them with anger of our own. Now, we've gotten too sophisticated for that. We recognize, and don't employ anger for punishment - we do punishment out of deterrence, rehabilitation, removal, but not retribution.

Rage is a natural, human emotion, that needs to be controlled, not vented. There are too many on the radical right who think it's their right to vent their rage. Look at the riot/attempted coup on Jan. 6th provoked by Trump supporters, where 4 people died. And look what we get. We get a boring old hearing in Congress, where everyone falls asleep. Maybe we need something with a little calculated fear in it.

by JulesV Thu May 26, 2022 7:02 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:According to manufacturers of ADHD stimulants, they are associated with sudden death in children who have heart problems, whether those heart problems have been previously detected or not. They can bring on a bipolar condition in a child who didn't exhibit any symptoms of such a disorder before taking stimulants. They are associated with "new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility." They can cause "new psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices and believing things that are not true) or new manic symptoms." They commonly cause noticeable weight loss and trouble sleeping. In some children, some stimulants can cause the paranoid feeling that bugs are crawling on them. Facial tics. They can cause children's eyes to glaze over, their spirits to dampen. One study reported fears of being harmed by other children and thoughts of suicide.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a32858/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414/#:~:text=By%20the%20time%20they%20reach,side%20effects%20from%20those%20drugs.

Then there is this.

We medicate the hell out of our boys..

Plenty of young people on medication here too. 0 school shootings.

What’s the difference?

Hi El !
Look upon it as schools returning to 'normal' after 2 years of disruption by covid. Business as usual!!!

Sour faced disgruntled teenage kids with guns & trucks at their disposal tend to be at the centre of these shootings. Typically they pose & preen himself in paramilitary gear on SM platforms and they boldly post their dark thoughts & intentions.

I include Kyle Rittenhouse in this, the popular poster boy for gun-toting nazis, he was cleared by a jury but he was also yet another a teenager swaggering around with a gun which ultimately killed, in a matter that had squat all to do with him. Not forgetting Crumbley & Cruz who also shot their classmates.

These shooters tend to come from outside town. Salvador Ramos was born in N Dakota.

by JulesV Thu May 26, 2022 7:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:

Donno. Abbott seemed to feel that date was important as the date that long guns became legal.

Abbot and the Donald will be guests of honour at scheduled NRA expo's shortly (yes exquisite timing there, wow!!) Will they pay the usual fawning & felating tributes to the gun toting fraternity and defiantly spout the usual bumper sticker slogans? The NRA bankrolls the GOP bigly!! As a fanatic gun lover Abbott paid to advertise on billboards that gun lovers should ''come live in Texas''.

Ted Cruz was so desperate to flee awkward questions from journalists he ran smack bang into a glass door. At least he did not run off to Cancun this time, eh.

Oh and I wonder what loonytunes Alex Jones will say this time? Uvalde is Sandy Hook MK2 --- which he claimed ''never happened, it was all fake CT nonsense''...... right?? Rolling Eyes

The bodies of the ten shoppers killed in Buffalo are barely cold yet.
Now 21 more people are dead, mostly small children ffs - those poor little kids.

by Syl Fri May 27, 2022 12:08 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Well it depends on what is termed a mental illness Quill.
Depression certainly is, it can be treated, but some of the men interviewed seemed to have not been prescribed suitable medication, they felt as if they were not being listened to.
On the other hand, some medications can cause depression and mood swings, so their mental state can't be overlooked either way.

I also hate the gun culture in your country. Some of the men interviewed did confess had they not had access to guns, those people would still be alive.

It ain’t mental illness. That’s a spoiled child’s cop-out. Mental illness is not anger. Anger is the state of almost all shooters. You look, in every case, and you'll see a source of anger - a situation or a social circle - that angered these guys, and the went off. These guys are in a state of out-of-control rage...the only thing that is different is they think it's all right to carry out their anger. Who does that? People who think they are privileged to do that.

We used to be able to take care of them with a quick hanging or, worse, a public stoning. We met them with anger of our own. Now, we've gotten too sophisticated for that. We recognize, and don't employ anger for punishment - we do punishment out of deterrence, rehabilitation, removal, but not retribution.

Rage is a natural, human emotion, that needs to be controlled, not vented. There are too many on the radical right who think it's their right to vent their rage. Look at the riot/attempted coup on Jan. 6th provoked by Trump supporters, where 4 people died. And look what we get. We get a boring old hearing in Congress, where everyone falls asleep. Maybe we need something with a little calculated fear in it.

I dont doubt that rage prompts a serial killer, rage and frustration.
Probably been building up for years, and when it happens people who knew the killers usually say they saw warning signs, but it's easy to be wise after the event.

by Original Quill Fri May 27, 2022 2:10 am

JulesV wrote:Will they pay the usual fawning & felating tributes to the gun toting fraternity and defiantly spout the usual bumper sticker slogans? The NRA bankrolls the GOP bigly!!

Hi Jules...gd to see you here. Yes, the Republicans are suck-ups to the NRA. But the NRA is a suck-up to the Russian government. The trial of Maria Butina proved that. "The FBI said she plotted to use political groups, including the NRA, to establish "back channel" communication with official figures with the ultimate aim of influencing US foreign policy in favour of Russia." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633

Funny thing...the NRA is owned lock, stock and barrel by the Russian government. They tried to file for bankruptcy, unsuccessfully as it turned out. The NRA would be broke were it not for the Vladimir Putin's bank account in the Moscow branch of Deutsch Bank..

by Original Quill Fri May 27, 2022 2:20 am

Syl wrote:I dont doubt that rage prompts a serial killer, rage and frustration.
Probably been building up for years, and when it happens people who knew the killers usually say they saw warning signs, but it's easy to be wise after the event.

Each individual is different. Some take years, others - like this one here - seems he was set off that afternoon, when is grandmother asked him to pay up his phone bill...and he got pissed!

If, as Abbott says, everyone who murders is a mental case, why aren't all persons convicted of homicide in Texas not in mental hospitals? Won't be the first time Abbott was guilty of duplicity.

by Maddog Fri May 27, 2022 5:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I dont doubt that rage prompts a serial killer, rage and frustration.
Probably been building up for years, and when it happens people who knew the killers usually say they saw warning signs, but it's easy to be wise after the event.

Each individual is different. Some take years, others - like this one here - seems he was set off that afternoon, when is grandmother asked him to pay up his phone bill...and he got pissed!

If, as Abbott says, everyone who murders is a mental case, why aren't all persons convicted of homicide in Texas not in mental hospitals? Won't be the first time Abbott was guilty of duplicity.

He was planning something. He spent a lot of money on two rifles as soon as he was legally able to. Weeks before the shooting.

That was a boy with a plan..

by Original Quill Fri May 27, 2022 9:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Each individual is different. Some take years, others - like this one here - seems he was set off that afternoon, when is grandmother asked him to pay up his phone bill...and he got pissed!

If, as Abbott says, everyone who murders is a mental case, why aren't all persons convicted of homicide in Texas not in mental hospitals? Won't be the first time Abbott was guilty of duplicity.

He was planning something. He spent a lot of money on two rifles as soon as he was legally able to. Weeks before the shooting.

That was a boy with a plan..

Except...Ramos only bought the long-guns last week, when he turned 18. Admittedly, he might have been waiting until his 18th birthday so he could buy the guns legally - he turned 18 last week, as well - but if he was so committed, he could have gotten the guns like Kyle Rittenhouse did, getting a friend to purchase them.

There were two things that just happened to him on the date of the shooting. One, his grandmother confronted him and tried to get him to pay his telephone bill. He shot her in the side of the head. Two, while running away he crashed his vehicle into what appears to be a flood control channel near the elementary school. Chance placed him on the doorstep of the school at the moment he was out of control, and going through an anger/frustration tantrum.

It sounds like cumulative things might have been occurring, too many, too fast, and in a state he just lashed out at the world. It has the makings of a hot-head, who was simply going off. These two events, in such quick succession, might have set him off.

Maybe he might have day-dreamed of some violence in the back of his mind, but it doesn’t sound like a well-arranged plan. It sounds like he was a classic spoilt child who was venting with his guns.

by Maddog Fri May 27, 2022 9:23 pm

We know he wasn't spoiled. Neither with money, nor attention.

He lived in poverty with absent parents..

by Original Quill Fri May 27, 2022 9:36 pm

Maddog wrote:We know he wasn't spoiled. Neither with money, nor attention.

He lived in poverty with absent parents..

...which could lead to lack of control, spur-of-the-moment crashing, as well. He had quit school, and lost his driver's license...sounds like he was in a downward spiral.

That's the worry. An enraged shooter in a land where firearms are available and all around...like a kid in a candy shop.

by Original Quill Sat May 28, 2022 2:31 am

New news: Turns out that police were on the scene for 1 hour and 20 minutes before the shooter was taken out. It seems that the local command officer (local police in charge) changed the call from 'active shooter' to 'barricaded person with gun' and decided to wait him out - meanwhile, the shooter was killing 21-people.

The Federal agents who showed up were told to stand down and wait as well. They finally grew impatient, and disobeying command orders, stormed the classroom and took the guy out...while the Texas cops were - what? - playing cards?

An hour and twenty minutes, while the shooter killed 19 babies and 2 teachers.

by Syl Sat May 28, 2022 12:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:New news: Turns out that police were on the scene for 1 hour and 20 minutes before the shooter was taken out. It seems that the local command officer (local police in charge) changed the call from 'active shooter' to 'barricaded person with gun' and decided to wait him out - meanwhile, the shooter was killing 21-people.

The Federal agents who showed up were told to stand down and wait as well. They finally grew impatient, and disobeying command orders, stormed the classroom and took the guy out...while the Texas cops were - what? - playing cards?

An hour and twenty minutes, while the shooter killed 19 babies and 2 teachers.

I saw a newsreel of parents outside, begging the police to enter, they were prevented from entering themselves.
An absolute nightmare for them, and a HUGE mistake by the police.

by Original Quill Sat May 28, 2022 3:50 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:New news: Turns out that police were on the scene for 1 hour and 20 minutes before the shooter was taken out. It seems that the local command officer (local police in charge) changed the call from 'active shooter' to 'barricaded person with gun' and decided to wait him out - meanwhile, the shooter was killing 21-people.

The Federal agents who showed up were told to stand down and wait as well. They finally grew impatient, and disobeying command orders, stormed the classroom and took the guy out...while the Texas cops were - what? - playing cards?

An hour and twenty minutes, while the shooter killed 19 babies and 2 teachers.

I saw a newsreel of parents outside, begging the police to enter, they were prevented from entering themselves.
An absolute nightmare for them, and a HUGE mistake by the police.

If you think that's bad, you should hear the kids who were on the phone (3 different calls), begging the police to hurry and come and save them. The children could hear the police through the walls/doors, and knew they were mere inches away...still, the Texas cops would not come and save them.

Finally, the fed special forces said bullshit, and ignoring orders, breached the door and killed the shooter. But not before he shot and killed 19 babies.

by Maddog Sat May 28, 2022 6:41 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:New news: Turns out that police were on the scene for 1 hour and 20 minutes before the shooter was taken out. It seems that the local command officer (local police in charge) changed the call from 'active shooter' to 'barricaded person with gun' and decided to wait him out - meanwhile, the shooter was killing 21-people.

The Federal agents who showed up were told to stand down and wait as well. They finally grew impatient, and disobeying command orders, stormed the classroom and took the guy out...while the Texas cops were - what? - playing cards?

An hour and twenty minutes, while the shooter killed 19 babies and 2 teachers.

I saw a newsreel of parents outside, begging the police to enter, they were prevented from entering themselves.
An absolute nightmare for them, and a HUGE mistake by the police.

19 elementary school children killed in mass shooting. Fb_im188

19 elementary school children killed in mass shooting. Fb_im189

by Original Quill Sun May 29, 2022 12:55 am

Maddog wrote:

Neither would Hitler, but some people are not the sort you want on your police force. Uvalde had sufficient forces, but god knows what that police commander was thinking when he held police up with the smell of those babies' burning.

by Syl Sun May 29, 2022 1:18 am

Is there a fine line between caution and cowardice?
To order trained armed police to not enter a building, when young children and their teachers are unprotected inside, with one rogue gunman on the loose, seems to be a cowardly decision to me.

by Original Quill Sun May 29, 2022 2:06 am

Syl wrote:Is there a fine line between caution and cowardice?
To order trained armed police to not enter a building, when young children and their teachers are unprotected inside, with one rogue gunman on the loose, seems to be a cowardly decision to me.

We don't know why the police commander went from active shooter, to barricaded person with a gun, but it sounds more like recklessness than caution. Frankly, it sounds like a commander who didn't know what he was doing - the Peter Principle says one is promoted to one's level of incompetence - but with lawsuits and all, we'll have as much luck getting to his motivation, as getting to the shooter's motivation.

by Maddog Sun May 29, 2022 3:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Neither would Hitler, but some people are not the sort you want on your police force. Uvalde had sufficient forces, but god knows what that police commander was thinking when he held police up with the smell of those babies' burning.

I don't think it's too much to expect the police to be as capable as one 17 year old lifeguard with a weapon.

by Original Quill Sun May 29, 2022 3:50 pm

Maddog wrote:I don't think it's too much to expect the police to be as capable as one 17 year old lifeguard with a weapon.

I've got to agree with you on police incompetence. It's all over the news this morning: the Uvalde police just went through School Shooter training within the past few days, and yet they violated every rule in the book. The first rule is: neutralize the threat. On page one of "the book" it says, CONFRONT AN ACTIVE SHOOTER AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE and take him or her out!! This commander has all the lessons fresh in his mind, and yet he violates the first rule! They should have to reimburse the state, or whomever, for lessons not learned.

by Tommy Monk Mon May 30, 2022 4:46 am

Sounds like this situation could have been dealt with a lot earlier on than it was, and possibly also before so many victims had been murdered...

by Syl Mon May 30, 2022 12:52 pm

I wonder if, after dissecting the rights and wrongs, the usual message of 'Lessons have been learned' will be churned out.

Or is that just in the UK?

by Original Quill Mon May 30, 2022 3:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Sounds like this situation could have been dealt with a lot earlier on than it was, and possibly also before so many victims had been murdered...

You're right, tommy. The big question right off is why the commander in-charge perceived that it was a 'barricaded-gunman' situation, and not an 'active-gunman' situation? Or, was that a pretext?

The book in the latter mandates immediate action with force, and that was not forthcoming until the federal special forces took matters in their own hands and independently took Ramos out. Was the commander a coward and just couldn't face harsh acrimony...cause he's got blood on his hands now!

Nobody is talking right now...I suspect that in hindsight, everybody knows their mistakes. It's curious that Texas has so many fuk-ups - remember the Great Texas Power Outage of 2021 - yet they still vote Republican, over and over, in the strongest way. You'd think they'd learn! If I had an employee like that, he'd already be out-on-his-ass.

Well...they get what they pay for.

by Original Quill Mon May 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Syl wrote:I wonder if, after dissecting the rights and wrongs, the usual message of 'Lessons have been learned' will be churned out.

Or is that just in the UK?

Or, thoughts are with the family... and prayers go out... Personally, we'd rather have the children, alive and well.

Especially in a red state...which elects Republican do-nothings! You'd think they'd learn...do something! Are they afraid? Don't they know every accomplishment starts with a decision to try!

by Maddog Mon May 30, 2022 5:17 pm

The response was directed by one person, Chief Pete Arredondo.

He was just elected to the city council too. But since council persons don't have party affiliations, we dont know what his party is.

And frankly, it doesn't matter. Poor decision making isn't something only one party can claim.

by Original Quill Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm

Maddog wrote:The response was directed by one person, Chief Pete Arredondo.

He was just elected to the city council too. But since council persons don't have party affiliations, we dont know what his party is.

And frankly, it doesn't matter. Poor decision making isn't something only one party can claim.

Ehhhh...I think it is. Texas is proof. I mean...they keep electing Republicans, and their elected officials keep screwing them.

I feel sorry for them. Their ideology locks them out of good, responsible government. They're not getting their money's worth.

by Maddog Mon May 30, 2022 10:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:The response was directed by one person, Chief Pete Arredondo.

He was just elected to the city council too. But since council persons don't have party affiliations, we dont know what his party is.

And frankly, it doesn't matter. Poor decision making isn't something only one party can claim.

Ehhhh...I think it is. Texas is proof. I mean...they keep electing Republicans, and their elected officials keep screwing them.

I feel sorry for them. Their ideology locks them out of good, responsible government. They're not getting their money's worth.

The four largest cities and counties in Texas are run by democrats.

The city your daughter chooses to live in is about as red as it gets.

Weird.

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