More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people.

by Tommy Monk Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:54 pm

This is based on a new CDC report... Which isn't being talked about in any main stream media, surprise surprise...

https://youtu.be/25-iJKPA1CA

by eddie Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:07 pm

The fact they’re talking about booster after booster....well, you know.... More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people. 2190311264

More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people. 2190311264

by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:16 pm

Just did a 10-second google and found several articles on this topic. I never believe anyone when they say "the media isn't talking about this" because it's never been true in my experience.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:33 pm

You had to Google it to find it...

But it hasn't been given airtime on main news channels.

That's the point!

by Original Quill Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:18 pm

What is there to talk about, tom? You take the vaccine, and if it works, wonderful. If, on the other hand, you get the virus, you end up with a double whammy of protection through natural immunity.

You’ve done everything to protect yourself, and if you get sick you get more protection. We already know that the adaptive immune system works. Nothing for the news to report on. More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people. 2190311264

I can see it now: NEWSFLASH: SCIENTISTS CONFIRM NATURAL IMMUNITY WORKS BETTER! Shocked

Says one physician, "Well...it's had more practice." Wink

by Tommy Monk Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:01 pm

You miss the point I've been making for over a year... And which is being made in the video...

If you've already had the virus, you already have a high level of immunity and don't need any vaccine!

by Original Quill Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You miss the point I've been making for over a year... And which is being made in the video...

If you've already had the virus, you already have a high level of immunity and don't need any vaccine!

You say it isn’t being given “airtime”. What is the news to report? Awareness of natural immunity goes back to Hippocrates.

That point is not being missed. As I say, it’s a given. More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people. 2023022481

More evidence that an actual COVID infection gives a high level of ongoing immunity and a vaccine is not needed for those people. 2023022481

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:12 am

I'm glad you agree... I've been saying that for ages... As have others... Although the power of naturall immunity from previous infection has been downplayed and even denied over the last coupe of years by those pushing the vaccines...

by Original Quill Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:54 pm

Natural immunity vs. vaccine is a negligible argument when a microbe marches in, overwhelms the quarrel, and kills 900,000 souls in your community. You've got to resort to any port in a storm, be it natural immunity or vaccine. Both are effective.

The real aim is to stop the spread. Who cares whether natural immunity or artificial immunity is the more effective? Natural immunity also has the inconvenience of infection & disease – possibly death - before immunity sets in. Vaccination, if it works, eliminates that liability. Why risk it?

Get vaccinated. For many, it ends there. If one still gets the virus, and survives, natural immunity will provide an added protection. That's the message that deserves "airtime".

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:53 pm

By the time the vaccine was created at the end of 2020, half the UK population had already had the actual virus and therefore didn't need any vaccine

by Original Quill Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:45 pm

That's wonderful. If half the UK was already naturally immune by the time a vaccine was available, those people skipped a step...or died. You still had half a population to go.

We had the vaccine by early March, 2021, and it saved a lot of lives. Nonetheless, we lost 900,000 souls between pre-vaccine days, and the vaccine aftermath, when anti-vaxxers started showing up.

To the anti-vaxxers we can say, y'all killed a lot of folks needlessly.

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:16 am

Waffle...

by Original Quill Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Waffle...

An infectious disease as serious as this is hardly “waffle”. It spreads, and that spread creates misery and death everywhere.

A broken femur doesn’t have the same risk. A broken bone is not contagious, or transferable. But an infectious disease potentially affects everyone who comes into contact with it. It’s social in nature, not individual; everyone who is exposed to it can come down it.

That’s why it’s silly to talk about ‘individual’ rights re: an infectious disease ... or a vaccine. You're messing with the rights of others.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:52 am

More waffle...

by Original Quill Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:More waffle...

You haven't got an answer, do you? This is the problem with anti-vaxxers and people who refuse to recognize the social nature of infectious diseases. Their argument causes them to run out of gas before they finish.

In order to win a point, choose the correct side before you begin. It’s easier… Twisted Evil

by Tommy Monk Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:34 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

You miss the point I've been making for over a year... And which is being made in the video...

If you've already had the virus, you already have a high level of immunity and don't need any vaccine!

Reposted for quill...

by Original Quill Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:18 am

I hate to repeat such a facile point, but you do what you can. You get vaccinated, and boosted. The second line of defense, if you get and survive the disease, is the natural immunity itself.

It's all ya got, so there's no argument, tom. Haha...you need to learn what 'Woke' means. Laughing

Wake up!

by Tommy Monk Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:54 pm

You again miss the point, and argue about irrelevance as a result...

Overwhelming vast majority of people have never been at risk from any serious adverse effects from covid... And by the time any vaccines had come out, half the population of UK, and probably also USA too, had already had the actual virus... None of these people needed any vaccine!

by Original Quill Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

You again miss the point, and argue about irrelevance as a result...

Overwhelming vast majority of people have never been at risk from any serious adverse effects from covid... And by the time any vaccines had come out, half the population of UK, and probably also USA too, had already had the actual virus... None of these people needed any vaccine!

Covid killed over 900,000 souls in this country. How many did it kill in your country?

Yet you embrace Covid like Donald Trump embraces Putin. How quaint. Evil or Very Mad

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:49 am

You are still missing the point quill...

by Original Quill Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You are still missing the point quill...

I don't think so. The deaths of 900,000 Americans and 161,000 in the UK really speaks for itself. It's not about me in the least. I think you're looking for grounds to justify your denial.

by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:36 pm

Point missed again quill...

by Original Quill Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Point missed again quill...

You can mouth the words all you want, but unless you can predict and control it the words don't mean anything. The simple truth is, in order to acquire natural immunity, you have to get sick, spread the microbe, and many will die...900,000 in the US and 161,000 in the UK. That's not a favorable outcome, under any circumstances.

In terms of the best course of action: Better to get vaccinated, and if the microbe still comes along despite your precautions, you're no worse off. The debate over which is more effective - natural immunity or vaccination - is nonsensical.

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:19 am

Half the population already had the virus before any vaccine was even created... And subsequently didn't need any vaccine...

Are you understanding yet...?

by Original Quill Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Half the population already had the virus before any vaccine was even created... And subsequently didn't need any vaccine...

Are you understanding yet...?

That is not an approbation, but an after-the-fact excuse for why you have been wrong all along. Thank you very much, but we don't need that.

You have no answers. Evil or Very Mad

by Tommy Monk Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:50 am

No excuse... Just fact...

Try understanding what I say instead of twisting and waffling about shit that I haven't said!

by Original Quill Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:No excuse... Just fact...

Try understanding what I say instead of twisting and waffling about shit that I haven't said!

Excuses involve facts, too.

I understand perfectly what you said. It offers no predictive or prescriptive content. It's a waste of time. Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:31 pm

All I was saying was what you now say you understand.

Simple really... And didn't need all your waffle to get to this point.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:10 pm

Tommy. Read the title of this thread. It is nothing, if not offering predictive and prescriptive advice about Covid. Apparently, you've missed your own point.

Moreover, you've missed another point: 900,000 dead in the US? 161,000 dead in the UK? You are trucking in lies by suggesting that a vaccine is not needed.

by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:57 am

No... The thread title is backing up the idea of natural immunity following a real COVID infection... And showing that a vaccine is not needed for these people who have actually had covid previously.

Over the last 2 years, there has been a deliberate and orchestrated denial of this natural immunity, as well as the true actual numbers of those who have it after having had covid, plus the hard sell that having a vaccine is still a requirement.

Covid vaccines are not needed for most people in the world!!!

by Syl Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

No... The thread title is backing up the idea of natural immunity following a real COVID infection... And showing that a vaccine is not needed for these people who have actually had covid previously.

Over the last 2 years, there has been a deliberate and orchestrated denial of this natural immunity, as well as the true actual numbers of those who have it after having had covid, plus the hard sell that having a vaccine is still a requirement.

Covid vaccines are not needed for most people in the world!!!

Not needed for the 6 million who have died with it, that's for sure. Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:47 pm

High proportion of those died with it, not from it, and overwhelming vast majority were over 75 and had other serious health conditions.

And considering probably half the world population (4,000,000,000 people) have already had the virus, the % number of actual deaths from it is really quite low and comparable to the CFR % rate of flu.

I know you don't like to hear this, but when you crunch the numbers, it is all true!

by Original Quill Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:High proportion of those died with it, not from it, and overwhelming vast majority were over 75 and had other serious health conditions.

And considering probably half the world population (4,000,000,000 people) have already had the virus, the % number of actual deaths from it is really quite low and comparable to the CFR % rate of flu.

I know you don't like to hear this, but when you crunch the numbers, it is all true!

You know, that’s like saying the people who die from falling off a steep cliff, don’t really die from the fall…but with the bump they get hitting the bottom. Therefore, you don’t need all the climbing/safety equipment that will keep you from falling, as it’s not the fall that kills you.

And “considering probably half the world population” has had a fall-down-and-go-bump when they were learning to walk, “the % number of actual deaths from it is really quite low”.

See, we all can play games with words and concepts. But unfortunately, real life doesn’t permit that opportunity. Covid kills under certain circumstances, just as a fall does when its off a steep cliff. We’ve got the proof: 900,000 deaths from Covid in the US; 161,000 deaths from Covid in the UK.

by Vintage Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:23 pm

The actual number of deaths, that you feel is quite low, is probably thanks to good health care, vaccinations and social distancing, plus the general progress in social welfare, ( better housing, less ovecrowding, clean water for all etc) rather than many people's immune response. We could have kept the number down during the 1918 epidemic if we had the expertise, the machines and drugs, I would not have liked to have seen the outcome of Covid on the population, without any of those measures. There are always people who catch a virus and can beat it, just as there are those who will not catch it, sadly the majority for various reasons aren't in either group.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:55 pm

No... It's down to our immune systems ..

by Syl Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:50 pm

Change the record Tommy, you have been banging the same drum for 2 years.
162,000 people in the UK have already died, they are still dying today, with Covid.

A good % of those people may still be alive and well today had they not caught Covid.
I know of four....

First you argued once you had caught Covid you were immune...oops, you, according to what you write, have had it twice already. Rolling Eyes

I wonder how many people you infected when you had it?
Of course, it won't bother them if they have a strong immune system, will it?

And if they dont....tough shit.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:38 pm

Yes, I had it 2 years ago... Then again during Christmas just gone...

So my immunity protected me from getting it again for quite some time...

And the 2nd time I got it, I caught it off someone who was fully vaccinated!!!

by Original Quill Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And the 2nd time I got it, I caught it off someone who was fully vaccinated!!!

I can go you one...err, two better. I got vaccinated and never got it! Twisted Evil

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:09 am

Yeah?

Well the person who gave it to me 2nd time, was not only fully vaccinated but had also had it before about a year earlier!!!

by Syl Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Yeah?

Well the person who gave it to me 2nd time, was not only fully vaccinated but had also had it before about a year earlier!!!

So what?
It's never been stated that vaccinated people can't catch Covid, and if they do catch it, they can obviously pass it on.

What has been proved is, the vaccination gives protection from catching Covid as easily, so helps stop the spread, and it helps prevent serious illness and death.

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:49 pm

It may help to prevent serious illness and death... But only for some of the people who would get seriously ill or die...

Overwhelming vast majority of people don't get seriously ill or die from covid without having any vaccine... And some of those who have had the vaccine can still get seriously ill or die from covid ...

So my point still stands that overwhelming vast majority of people don't need any vaccine!

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:00 pm

Also... Some people can get seriously ill or die from the vaccines!!!

by Original Quill Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It may help to prevent serious illness and death... But only for some of the people who would get seriously ill or die...

Overwhelming vast majority of people don't get seriously ill or die from covid without having any vaccine... And some of those who have had the vaccine can still get seriously ill or die from covid ...

So my point still stands that overwhelming vast majority of people don't need any vaccine!

Comorbidities are quite common. People with cancer commonly are weakened by respiratory illness. Heart attacks are the consequence of a weakened state due to, say, pancreatic cancer. The comorbidities associated with breast cancer are hypertension (21.8%), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) (19.9%), rheumatologic disease (18.6%), and diabetes mellitus (16.7%)...all four conditions have been reported in around 75% of the cases! As I said before, you don't die from the fall off a cliff, but from the bump at the bottom.

Complex shit happens...live with it. So, nature doesn't conform to your neat little preconceived lines. You are still better off taking therapeutic measures to combat each illness as it comes along. You give up...you surely die.

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:43 pm

And...?

What's your point...?

by Original Quill Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:46 pm

I think I made my point:

"So, nature doesn't conform to your neat little preconceived lines. You are still better off taking therapeutic measures to combat each illness as it comes along. You give up...you surely die."

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:55 pm

Overwhelming vast majority of people are not at any risk of serious illness or death from covid... So don't need a vaccine for it... Especially one that firstly doesn't necessarily stop you from getting covid and secondly could actually give you serious illness or death.

And even more especially if they have already had the actual virus and have already recovered after having nothing more than cold/flu symptoms, which is what covid is for overwhelming vast majority of people.

by Original Quill Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Overwhelming vast majority of people are not at any risk of serious illness or death from covid... So don't need a vaccine for it... Especially one that firstly doesn't necessarily stop you from getting covid and secondly could actually give you serious illness or death.

And even more especially if they have already had the actual virus and have already recovered after having nothing more than cold/flu symptoms, which is what covid is for overwhelming vast majority of people.

Point #1: "Overwhelming vast majority" is an imprecise characterization. How would it be if you described the genocide of a million people as, simply, the "overwhelming vast majority of people are not at any risk..."? They would think you are evading the point. In the US over 900,000 have died from Covid; in the UK, over 162,000 have died from it. Physicians go to great lengths to save one life; why would they ignore over a million lives?

Point #2: The vaccine is necessary even if you have had the illness before, as mutations are continually taking place. The virus is not dormant, why should you be?

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:22 pm

If you've already had the virus and had either mild symptoms or no symptoms, then you don't need a vaccine.

Mutations normally result in viruses getting less potent too!

And I don't believe the numbers you quote.

Many of those didn't die from covid at all!!!

They just happend to die of other causes within 28 days of having had covid.

by Original Quill Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:If you've already had the virus and had either mild symptoms or no symptoms, then you don't need a vaccine.

Unless another virus comes along, in the same strain, that happens to be more virulent.

tommy monk wrote:Mutations normally result in viruses getting less potent too!

Why take the chance?

tommy monk wrote:And I don't believe the numbers you quote.

Many of those didn't die from covid at all!!!

They just happend to die of other causes within 28 days of having had covid.

Here we go again: did the victim die from falling off the cliff, or from the bump he received at the bottom? I believe those with the clinical tools, training, and the body, are in a better position to judge.

by Tommy Monk Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:08 pm

1. The vaccines don't prevent people from getting covid.

2. Not taking any chance, it is established fact. Plus having already had it and been fine, the bodies immune system will deal with any future infection.

3. Here in UK the figures are caveated by the statement "died within 28 days of a positive covid test"... Not that they died from covid... But they still go on the covid death tally regardless of whatever else they died of!

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