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About Us & RulesHow Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
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Syl
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How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:29 pm
First topic message reminder :
March 23 marks the anniversary of Britain's lockdown. It's not that memorable a milestone, admittedly, as it's hardly the only country in that position. But the U.K. has one big difference from most countries, not least the United States: We're still in a strict lockdown.
This often goes underappreciated on the American side of the pond. Many point to indoor dining bans and the like in the U.S. as evidence that lockdowns endure on both sides of the Atlantic. But as irritating as those laws might be, they're not the same as the U.K. lockdown.
Since the beginning of January, the U.K. has had the real deal (just as we did for all of last spring and winter): an indefinite stay-at-home order coupled with on-the-spot fines for anyone going outdoors without good reason or visiting a family member. Bars, gyms, churches, and "non-essential" retailers (the majority of which were already shut thanks to the "local" lockdowns that engulfed much of England last winter) have all been closed for months.
Eleven weeks in and we've seen only the most minor relaxations. Since March 8, it's been permitted for two people to meet outside for a coffee—provided it's in a public space. From March 29, this limit will be extended to six people, and to private gardens. Meeting indoors will remain illegal until the middle of May.
The enduring lockdown is quite surprising. Goodness knows that if you'd said this time last year the U.K. would still be in lockdown—and all under "freedom-loving" Prime Minister Boris Johnson—you'd have been laughed out of town. That's before you factor in the vaccines, of which some 50 percent of U.K. adults (and virtually all seniors) have now received at least one dose.
Yet here we are: 12 months into restrictions and our once-cherished approach to liberty has been totally inverted. Lockdown, once a temporary aberration, has instead become the default. The burden of proof is placed on those arguing for freedom, rather than those wanting to remain in lockdown.
What went wrong? One ongoing, and unexpected, factor has been the astounding popularity of lockdowns. Ever since spring 2020, opinion polling has shown previously unthinkable majorities in favor of restrictions. Last month, for example, 72 percent of those asked backed the idea of a 10-day hotel quarantine for all international arrivals. Meanwhile, 59 percent of Brits want a ban on all protests and demonstrations during the pandemic.
It's no secret that the Boris Johnson administration is even more preoccupied with polling than its predecessors. Sometimes he appears reluctant to speak on an issue before consulting the polls. Witness his slowness last summer, for example, to speak out on the issue of whether anti-racism protesters were right to target a statue of Winston Churchill, a question that should have been an open goal for any Conservative Party prime minister.
The Media Got It Wrong: Police Captain Didn't Say the Atlanta Spa Killer Was Having a 'Bad Day'
But why do Brits back lockdown in the first place? The U.K.'s heightened fear of the virus plays a big role, as does the affinity for our National Health Service (which did, it's true, come under serious strain in January). That some of our doom-mongering modelers are already catastrophizing about a deadly "third wave" this summer doesn't help either.
Much of the country remains scarred by what many regard as a botched opening up last summer, when the government finally decided to reopen hospitality (albeit with strict physical distancing) after three and a half months of total closure. It was a decision that, at the time, was largely cheered by the British press. But nine months on from what the papers dubbed "super Saturday" and the reopening is being held up as the moment at which Britain began its headfirst march into a deadly second wave.
It's an argument that ignores the fact that, at the time of reopening, COVID-19 cases had plunged to miniscule levels in Britain; a level at which they remained all summer. Never mind, too, that the U.K.'s services-led economy had slumped by a record 20 percent at this point, and that human vaccine trials were still in their earliest stages. What was the alternative? Staying shut indefinitely?
None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe.
It's all a far cry from January, when our health secretary promised to "cry freedom" once the over-50s were vaccinated and, by extension, 95 percent of deaths eliminated. Instead, the goal posts have shifted, with the new line being that even a small rise in cases might lead to a rogue vaccine-resistant strain.
In some ways, the U.K. has been a victim of its own vaccine success. The expedited timeline of the rollout, well beyond original expectations, now means that we should have jabbed all willing adults by June. But rather than enabling the reopening of society, our vaccine success has crystallized a different proposition: What's another few weeks of house arrest if it removes that final scintilla of risk?
Like many lockdown critics, I have dozens of answers to that question. But it's too late: The battle is lost, and thanks largely to a half-truth. They told us vaccines would be our ticket to freedom—they didn't tell us we'd be taking the slow train.
https://reason.com/2021/03/19/how-britain-lost-the-lockdown-battle/
It's almost like a form of Stockholm syndrome. The vaccines are working. Herd immunity is working. Let's get back to real life.
March 23 marks the anniversary of Britain's lockdown. It's not that memorable a milestone, admittedly, as it's hardly the only country in that position. But the U.K. has one big difference from most countries, not least the United States: We're still in a strict lockdown.
This often goes underappreciated on the American side of the pond. Many point to indoor dining bans and the like in the U.S. as evidence that lockdowns endure on both sides of the Atlantic. But as irritating as those laws might be, they're not the same as the U.K. lockdown.
Since the beginning of January, the U.K. has had the real deal (just as we did for all of last spring and winter): an indefinite stay-at-home order coupled with on-the-spot fines for anyone going outdoors without good reason or visiting a family member. Bars, gyms, churches, and "non-essential" retailers (the majority of which were already shut thanks to the "local" lockdowns that engulfed much of England last winter) have all been closed for months.
Eleven weeks in and we've seen only the most minor relaxations. Since March 8, it's been permitted for two people to meet outside for a coffee—provided it's in a public space. From March 29, this limit will be extended to six people, and to private gardens. Meeting indoors will remain illegal until the middle of May.
The enduring lockdown is quite surprising. Goodness knows that if you'd said this time last year the U.K. would still be in lockdown—and all under "freedom-loving" Prime Minister Boris Johnson—you'd have been laughed out of town. That's before you factor in the vaccines, of which some 50 percent of U.K. adults (and virtually all seniors) have now received at least one dose.
Yet here we are: 12 months into restrictions and our once-cherished approach to liberty has been totally inverted. Lockdown, once a temporary aberration, has instead become the default. The burden of proof is placed on those arguing for freedom, rather than those wanting to remain in lockdown.
What went wrong? One ongoing, and unexpected, factor has been the astounding popularity of lockdowns. Ever since spring 2020, opinion polling has shown previously unthinkable majorities in favor of restrictions. Last month, for example, 72 percent of those asked backed the idea of a 10-day hotel quarantine for all international arrivals. Meanwhile, 59 percent of Brits want a ban on all protests and demonstrations during the pandemic.
It's no secret that the Boris Johnson administration is even more preoccupied with polling than its predecessors. Sometimes he appears reluctant to speak on an issue before consulting the polls. Witness his slowness last summer, for example, to speak out on the issue of whether anti-racism protesters were right to target a statue of Winston Churchill, a question that should have been an open goal for any Conservative Party prime minister.
The Media Got It Wrong: Police Captain Didn't Say the Atlanta Spa Killer Was Having a 'Bad Day'
But why do Brits back lockdown in the first place? The U.K.'s heightened fear of the virus plays a big role, as does the affinity for our National Health Service (which did, it's true, come under serious strain in January). That some of our doom-mongering modelers are already catastrophizing about a deadly "third wave" this summer doesn't help either.
Much of the country remains scarred by what many regard as a botched opening up last summer, when the government finally decided to reopen hospitality (albeit with strict physical distancing) after three and a half months of total closure. It was a decision that, at the time, was largely cheered by the British press. But nine months on from what the papers dubbed "super Saturday" and the reopening is being held up as the moment at which Britain began its headfirst march into a deadly second wave.
It's an argument that ignores the fact that, at the time of reopening, COVID-19 cases had plunged to miniscule levels in Britain; a level at which they remained all summer. Never mind, too, that the U.K.'s services-led economy had slumped by a record 20 percent at this point, and that human vaccine trials were still in their earliest stages. What was the alternative? Staying shut indefinitely?
None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe.
It's all a far cry from January, when our health secretary promised to "cry freedom" once the over-50s were vaccinated and, by extension, 95 percent of deaths eliminated. Instead, the goal posts have shifted, with the new line being that even a small rise in cases might lead to a rogue vaccine-resistant strain.
In some ways, the U.K. has been a victim of its own vaccine success. The expedited timeline of the rollout, well beyond original expectations, now means that we should have jabbed all willing adults by June. But rather than enabling the reopening of society, our vaccine success has crystallized a different proposition: What's another few weeks of house arrest if it removes that final scintilla of risk?
Like many lockdown critics, I have dozens of answers to that question. But it's too late: The battle is lost, and thanks largely to a half-truth. They told us vaccines would be our ticket to freedom—they didn't tell us we'd be taking the slow train.
https://reason.com/2021/03/19/how-britain-lost-the-lockdown-battle/
It's almost like a form of Stockholm syndrome. The vaccines are working. Herd immunity is working. Let's get back to real life.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:49 pm
Maddog wrote:"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
Lockdowns are one end of the solution; vaccinations are the other end. Like bandages externally after surgery or a trauma, and antibodies given internally, they are two ends of the treatment.
In this country we see the leaders of the two biggest southern states arguing for frivolity, while there is still healing to be done. Southerners are not bright people, as I have forewarned you. They are like toddlers, or even puppies, wanting to pull off the bandages because they constrain them. In Miami in Florida, and along the Gulf Coast in Texas, we see the toddlers wanting to party during Spring Break, and we see trailer park politicians letting them.
Follow the best and brightest. You won’t find them in the trailer parks of your country.
Last edited by Original Quill on Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:51 pm
Original Quill wrote:Maddog wrote:"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
Nonsense. A few idiots do not make a majority. There will always be those, like southerners in our country, who, led by the nose, will follow a pig over a cliff.
Lockdowns are one end of the solution; vaccinations are the other end. Like bandages externally after surgery or a trauma, and antibodies given internally, they are two ends of the treatment.
In this country we see the leaders of the two biggest southern states arguing for frivolity, while there is still healing to be done. Southerners are not bright people, as I have forewarned you. They are like toddlers, or even puppies, wanting to pull off the bandages because they constrain them. In Miami in Florida, and along the Gulf Coast in Texas, we see the toddlers wanting to party during Spring Break, and we see trailer park politicians letting them.
Follow the best and brightest. You won’t find them in the trailer parks of your country.
It's a bit early in California for you to be this drunk. What are you even talking about?
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:08 pm
Actually it's before 8, and I'm enjoying coffee.
I'm talking about this debate on reopening now that the vaccines are more available. Whether the idiots are in Texas, or Northampton, the virus attacks the same. The only thing that will make a difference is how you combat it.
There is another problem that we have not even talked about. The longer you let this virus linger about, the more opportunity you give it to mutate, and experiment on deadly variations. We now have a South African mutation, and a Brazilian mutation.
All of these parties in Miami and South Padre Island are just more opportunities for the virus to mutate. Governors like Abbott and DeSantis, relaxing lockdowns, are inviting trouble. It's the same virus in the UK.
I'm talking about this debate on reopening now that the vaccines are more available. Whether the idiots are in Texas, or Northampton, the virus attacks the same. The only thing that will make a difference is how you combat it.
There is another problem that we have not even talked about. The longer you let this virus linger about, the more opportunity you give it to mutate, and experiment on deadly variations. We now have a South African mutation, and a Brazilian mutation.
All of these parties in Miami and South Padre Island are just more opportunities for the virus to mutate. Governors like Abbott and DeSantis, relaxing lockdowns, are inviting trouble. It's the same virus in the UK.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:29 pm
Maddog wrote:
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
These polls you keep going on about, can you post a link?
The vibe I am getting (and I live here) is that most people can't wait for the lockdown to ease.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:14 pm
Original Quill wrote:Actually it's before 8, and I'm enjoying coffee.
I'm talking about this debate on reopening now that the vaccines are more available. Whether the idiots are in Texas, or Northampton, the virus attacks the same. The only thing that will make a difference is how you combat it.
There is another problem that we have not even talked about. The longer you let this virus linger about, the more opportunity you give it to mutate, and experiment on deadly variations. We now have a South African mutation, and a Brazilian mutation.
All of these parties in Miami and South Padre Island are just more opportunities for the virus to mutate. Governors like Abbott and DeSantis, relaxing lockdowns, are inviting trouble. It's the same virus in the UK.
Yeah.
Well, this is about the UK.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:15 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
These polls you keep going on about, can you post a link?
The vibe I am getting (and I live here) is that most people can't wait for the lockdown to ease.
Hit the link on the OP.
Reason usually cites their sources by highlighting words in the article.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:16 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
These polls you keep going on about, can you post a link?
The vibe I am getting (and I live here) is that most people can't wait for the lockdown to ease.
So you're in favor of opening everything right now?
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:24 pm
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
These polls you keep going on about, can you post a link?
The vibe I am getting (and I live here) is that most people can't wait for the lockdown to ease.
So you're in favor of opening everything right now?
No, I think the gradual easing of the lockdown, so eventually come June we should be free of most restrictions (though travelling abroad now there is another surge in some countries looks dubious) is the most sensible way, I still cant wait though.
Could you not find a poll to show?
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:44 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
So you're in favor of opening everything right now?
No, I think the gradual easing of the lockdown, so eventually come June we should be free of most restrictions (though travelling abroad now there is another surge in some countries looks dubious) is the most sensible way, I still cant wait though.
Could you not find a poll to show?
See, you're the one in the survey that still approves of the lockdowns.
From the article
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:49 pm
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/health/coronavirus/most-people-support-englands-roadmap-out-of-lockdown-3143864
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/03/15/snap-poll-public-split-whether-police-should-have-
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/travel-news-latest-90-per-cent-of-britons-support-hotel-quarantine/ar-BB1dMSqi
Links highlighted in the original article that no one has read, yet they want to discuss.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/03/15/snap-poll-public-split-whether-police-should-have-
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/travel-news-latest-90-per-cent-of-britons-support-hotel-quarantine/ar-BB1dMSqi
Links highlighted in the original article that no one has read, yet they want to discuss.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:11 pm
Maddog wrote:Original Quill wrote:Actually it's before 8, and I'm enjoying coffee.
I'm talking about this debate on reopening now that the vaccines are more available. Whether the idiots are in Texas, or Northampton, the virus attacks the same. The only thing that will make a difference is how you combat it.
There is another problem that we have not even talked about. The longer you let this virus linger about, the more opportunity you give it to mutate, and experiment on deadly variations. We now have a South African mutation, and a Brazilian mutation.
All of these parties in Miami and South Padre Island are just more opportunities for the virus to mutate. Governors like Abbott and DeSantis, relaxing lockdowns, are inviting trouble. It's the same virus in the UK.
Yeah.
Well, this is about the UK.
The virus doesn't give a sheit about the UK or the US. It goes where it wants, dummkopf.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:44 pm
Original Quill wrote:Maddog wrote:
Yeah.
Well, this is about the UK.
The virus doesn't give a sheit about the UK or the US. It goes where it wants, dummkopf.
The virus isn't posting here jack ass, you are.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:48 pm
Maddog wrote:Original Quill wrote:
The virus doesn't give a sheit about the UK or the US. It goes where it wants, dummkopf.
The virus isn't posting here jack ass, you are.
What a dumbfook response. We are not trying to locate the virus. It's already everywhere.
It's you who are trying to treat it like a jurisdictional question. The virus knows no jurisdiction, cracker.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:58 pm
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
No, I think the gradual easing of the lockdown, so eventually come June we should be free of most restrictions (though travelling abroad now there is another surge in some countries looks dubious) is the most sensible way, I still cant wait though.
Could you not find a poll to show?
See, you're the one in the survey that still approves of the lockdowns.
From the article
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
I dont think the planned reopening is too quick, I think our government has it about right for our country.
So i am not in the 25% you are going on about.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 am
Original Quill wrote:Maddog wrote:
The virus isn't posting here jack ass, you are.
What a dumbfook response. We are not trying to locate the virus. It's already everywhere.
It's you who are trying to treat it like a jurisdictional question. The virus knows no jurisdiction, cracker.
Cracker?
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:27 am
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
See, you're the one in the survey that still approves of the lockdowns.
From the article
"None of this, unfortunately, has stopped this argument from catching on with a public whose approach to reopening now resembles that old Chinese proverb about the man bitten by a snake being scared of rope. In fact, more than a quarter of Britons say the current reopening plan—stores in April; bars with masks in May; freedom in June—is too quick, even with mass vaccination having driven down our case levels to the second lowest in Europe."
I dont think the planned reopening is too quick, I think our government has it about right for our country.
So i am not in the 25% you are going on about.
You are part of the group that wants to stay closed right now when there is no longer a need.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:41 am
I think the overall opinion, based on what the experts, scientists, and government is saying , is, there is a need if we dont want to rush things and find ourselves facing a third lockdown.Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
I dont think the planned reopening is too quick, I think our government has it about right for our country.
So i am not in the 25% you are going on about.
You are part of the group that wants to stay closed right now when there is no longer a need.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:22 am
Syl wrote:I think the overall opinion, based on what the experts, scientists, and government is saying , is, there is a need if we dont want to rush things and find ourselves facing a third lockdown.Maddog wrote:
You are part of the group that wants to stay closed right now when there is no longer a need.
There isn't going to be a third lockdown unless you don't think the vaccines and herd immunity works. You're just like us in that you had high infection rates followed by high vaccination rates. That's how you get herd immunity.
You're locked down and harming people for nothing at this point. The negative effects from the lockdown are going to harm people months or years longer than necessary from this excessive action. Your cure is now worse than the disease.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:52 am
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
I think the overall opinion, based on what the experts, scientists, and government is saying , is, there is a need if we dont want to rush things and find ourselves facing a third lockdown.
There isn't going to be a third lockdown unless you don't think the vaccines and herd immunity works. You're just like us in that you had high infection rates followed by high vaccination rates. That's how you get herd immunity.
You're locked down and harming people for nothing at this point. The negative effects from the lockdown are going to harm people months or years longer than necessary from this excessive action. Your cure is now worse than the disease.
Do you actually follow the news here Maddog or are you just agreeing blindly with what some bloke from the Spectator wrote?
We HOPE there wont be a third lockdown here, and our government, led by the people who know more than you or I, is doing everything they can to prevent it.
But....our EU neighbours are already seeing signs of a third wave, and if you seriously think that cant affect us you are wrong. You even think it's a good idea to start getting on planes and taking holidays, which is a sure way to keep the infections spreading globally.
No country is safe...not even yours, till the virus is under control everywhere ,not just in the part of the world you inhabit.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:52 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
There isn't going to be a third lockdown unless you don't think the vaccines and herd immunity works. You're just like us in that you had high infection rates followed by high vaccination rates. That's how you get herd immunity.
You're locked down and harming people for nothing at this point. The negative effects from the lockdown are going to harm people months or years longer than necessary from this excessive action. Your cure is now worse than the disease.
Do you actually follow the news here Maddog or are you just agreeing blindly with what some bloke from the Spectator wrote?
We HOPE there wont be a third lockdown here, and our government, led by the people who know more than you or I, is doing everything they can to prevent it.
But....our EU neighbours are already seeing signs of a third wave, and if you seriously think that cant affect us you are wrong. You even think it's a good idea to start getting on planes and taking holidays, which is a sure way to keep the infections spreading globally.
No country is safe...not even yours, till the virus is under control everywhere ,not just in the part of the world you inhabit.
You are doing better at vaccinating people. Plus you had higher infections than many other countries, which sucked at the time, but is now to you're benefit.
You're in a great spot but won't accept it. The mental health damage may be the biggest threat now.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:16 pm
The president later said he hoped there would be targeted campaigns for certain professions, such as teachers, by April or May and that in a race against time public holidays should be no barrier to delivering injections.
Previously, the government had slated opening up Covid-19 vaccine slots for the over-70s in mid-April. Vaccinations are currently available for those over 75 and anyone over 50 with a serious pre-existing condition.
France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
It has rolled out some 8.8 million doses, compared with more than 30 million in Britain and nearly 11 million in Germany.
This is why you're doing so well. You are outperforming places that suck at vaccines.
France is facing a 3rd wave because they have administered 1/3 as many shots and are still vaccinating 70 year olds. That's fucking criminal.
It's not your lockdowns keeping you safe. It's the vaccine.
Previously, the government had slated opening up Covid-19 vaccine slots for the over-70s in mid-April. Vaccinations are currently available for those over 75 and anyone over 50 with a serious pre-existing condition.
France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
It has rolled out some 8.8 million doses, compared with more than 30 million in Britain and nearly 11 million in Germany.
This is why you're doing so well. You are outperforming places that suck at vaccines.
France is facing a 3rd wave because they have administered 1/3 as many shots and are still vaccinating 70 year olds. That's fucking criminal.
It's not your lockdowns keeping you safe. It's the vaccine.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:55 pm
Maddog wrote:The president later said he hoped there would be targeted campaigns for certain professions, such as teachers, by April or May and that in a race against time public holidays should be no barrier to delivering injections.
Previously, the government had slated opening up Covid-19 vaccine slots for the over-70s in mid-April. Vaccinations are currently available for those over 75 and anyone over 50 with a serious pre-existing condition.
France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
It has rolled out some 8.8 million doses, compared with more than 30 million in Britain and nearly 11 million in Germany.
This is why you're doing so well. You are outperforming places that suck at vaccines.
France is facing a 3rd wave because they have administered 1/3 as many shots and are still vaccinating 70 year olds. That's fucking criminal.
It's not your lockdowns keeping you safe. It's the vaccine.
It's a combination of the two.
The vaccination programme IS going brilliantly, and the lockdown IS being eased.
In a few days travelling by car and other restrictions will ease up a lot, some outdoor sports can resume, no one can be complacent, but we are doing OK.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:46 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:The president later said he hoped there would be targeted campaigns for certain professions, such as teachers, by April or May and that in a race against time public holidays should be no barrier to delivering injections.
Previously, the government had slated opening up Covid-19 vaccine slots for the over-70s in mid-April. Vaccinations are currently available for those over 75 and anyone over 50 with a serious pre-existing condition.
France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
It has rolled out some 8.8 million doses, compared with more than 30 million in Britain and nearly 11 million in Germany.
This is why you're doing so well. You are outperforming places that suck at vaccines.
France is facing a 3rd wave because they have administered 1/3 as many shots and are still vaccinating 70 year olds. That's fucking criminal.
It's not your lockdowns keeping you safe. It's the vaccine.
It's a combination of the two.
The vaccination programme IS going brilliantly, and the lockdown IS being eased.
In a few days travelling by car and other restrictions will ease up a lot, some outdoor sports can resume, no one can be complacent, but we are doing OK.
Wow. Traveling by car. Sounds like anarchy.
It's the vaccine. That's why you and us aren't seeing a third wave and those that suck at vaccines are.
It's the common denominator.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:47 pm
France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:22 pm
And Germany, Italy, Poland....and more, all spiking again.Maddog wrote:France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
And you think travel restrictions should be eased.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:35 pm
OK?Syl wrote:And Germany, Italy, Poland....and more, all spiking again.Maddog wrote:France is tackling a third wave of infections but is lagging behind many Western countries in the number of people vaccinated.
And you think travel restrictions should be eased.
They are behind you as well in vaccines.
I think Brits should be free to travel anywhere they want to at this point.
The curve has been flattened. It's OK now.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 pm
Maddog wrote:OK?Syl wrote:
And Germany, Italy, Poland....and more, all spiking again.
And you think travel restrictions should be eased.
They are behind you as well in vaccines.
I think Brits should be free to travel anywhere they want to at this point.
The curve has been flattened. It's OK now.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:23 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
OK?
They are behind you as well in vaccines.
I think Brits should be free to travel anywhere they want to at this point.
The curve has been flattened. It's OK now.
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:38 pm
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
"All clear" isn't sounded while there are bombers still overhead. Maybe the Brits are smarter than you.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:42 pm
Original Quill wrote:Maddog wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
"All clear" isn't sounded while there are bombers still overhead. Maybe the Brits are smarter than you.
3 bombers running low on fuel with one bomb between the three of them.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Original Quill Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:35 pm
Maddog wrote:Original Quill wrote:
"All clear" isn't sounded while there are bombers still overhead. Maybe the Brits are smarter than you.
3 bombers running low on fuel with one bomb between the three of them.
You're the only one running low on fuel & ammunition, pal. You don't abandon your protection when the danger still exists. The difference between you and Syl is, whether there is still the danger of an uptick in cases.
Syl is correct: the danger still exists. Look, when it gets down the brass tacks this is a competition between partying in bars, and staying home and not exposing yourself to a virus. On a cost/benefit basis, how important is partying in bars. The odds are all with Syl's side. When in doubt be conservative.
The problem is, since Trump former conservatives have become bellicose and reckless.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:41 pm
True but then again we didn't dismantle air raid shelters in November 1945 ,in fact some still exist today in many gardens around the country in fact i worked in one for 4 yearsMaddog wrote:Syl wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
Anyway Americans are famous for building fall out shelters its big business
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:47 pm
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
No one is paralysed with fear Maddog.
I don't know why you want to portray the Brits as shivering wrecks in the face of a threat now gone.
We are coming out of lockdown gradually. As I keep saying, our close neighbours are on the uprise again, some countries are going back into lockdown because they came out too soon.
We are using the two handed approach of easing the lockdown as the vaccination programme immunises more and more of the population.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:55 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
No one is paralysed with fear Maddog.
I don't know why you want to portray the Brits as shivering wrecks in the face of a threat now gone.
We are coming out of lockdown gradually. As I keep saying, our close neighbours are on the uprise again, some countries are going back into lockdown because they came out too soon.
We are using the two handed approach of easing the lockdown as the vaccination programme immunises more and more of the population.
If you are not ready to open right now in light of the current events, you're being driven by fear.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:56 pm
Korben wrote:True but then again we didn't dismantle air raid shelters in November 1945 ,in fact some still exist today in many gardens around the country in fact i worked in one for 4 yearsMaddog wrote:
It's November 1945 and you're still in your air raid shelter.
The all clear needs to be sounded but the population is so conditioned to living with threat, many don't know how to act right now.
There's a reason they say "paralyzed" with fear.
Anyway Americans are famous for building fall out shelters its big business
Nutty Americans build them.
Unless you're talking about tornado shelters.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:58 pm
"Like many lockdown critics, I have dozens of answers to that question. But it's too late: The battle is lost, and thanks largely to a half-truth. They told us vaccines would be our ticket to freedom—they didn't tell us we'd be taking the slow train."
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Syl Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:37 pm
Maddog wrote:Syl wrote:
No one is paralysed with fear Maddog.
I don't know why you want to portray the Brits as shivering wrecks in the face of a threat now gone.
We are coming out of lockdown gradually. As I keep saying, our close neighbours are on the uprise again, some countries are going back into lockdown because they came out too soon.
We are using the two handed approach of easing the lockdown as the vaccination programme immunises more and more of the population.
If you are not ready to open right now in light of the current events, you're being driven by fear.
Nope....driven by common sense.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:24 pm
Syl wrote:Maddog wrote:
If you are not ready to open right now in light of the current events, you're being driven by fear.
Nope....driven by common sense.
It was common sense a month ago. Now it's fear.
Hell, Fauci is now saying we might need to wear masks into 2022. Common sense has been abandoned.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:29 pm
No not tornado shelters i am talking about the survivalist shelters and compoundsMaddog wrote:Korben wrote:
True but then again we didn't dismantle air raid shelters in November 1945 ,in fact some still exist today in many gardens around the country in fact i worked in one for 4 years
Anyway Americans are famous for building fall out shelters its big business
Nutty Americans build them.
Unless you're talking about tornado shelters.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:32 pm
Korben wrote:No not tornado shelters i am talking about the survivalist shelters and compoundsMaddog wrote:
Nutty Americans build them.
Unless you're talking about tornado shelters.
Yeah, we have some preppers. Like we have flat earthers and followers of David Icke.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:35 pm
Yup According to a quick interweb search Adding up the numbers, roughly 72% of American adults (184.6 million adults) who are prepping for the end times, a dramatic increase from only 55% of American adults at the start of 2020Maddog wrote:Korben wrote:
No not tornado shelters i am talking about the survivalist shelters and compounds
Yeah, we have some preppers. Like we have flat earthers and followers of David Icke.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:38 pm
Korben wrote:Yup According to a quick interweb search Adding up the numbers, roughly 72% of American adults (184.6 million adults) who are prepping for the end times, a dramatic increase from only 55% of American adults at the start of 2020Maddog wrote:
Yeah, we have some preppers. Like we have flat earthers and followers of David Icke.
Well, it's on the internet so it must be true.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:41 pm
Are you disputing that estimate ??Maddog wrote:Korben wrote:
Yup According to a quick interweb search Adding up the numbers, roughly 72% of American adults (184.6 million adults) who are prepping for the end times, a dramatic increase from only 55% of American adults at the start of 2020
Well, it's on the internet so it must be true.
https://www.finder.com/doomsday-prepper-statistics
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:48 pm
I would add its not an exclusively American mindset we have our preppers here as well
hell i even dabbled in it for a year or two some time ago ,became a member of a few sites bought some equipment including a weapon (long bow) stocked up on food but i kind of came to my senses and stopped being friends with the guy that got me in to it
hell i even dabbled in it for a year or two some time ago ,became a member of a few sites bought some equipment including a weapon (long bow) stocked up on food but i kind of came to my senses and stopped being friends with the guy that got me in to it
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:55 pm
And you know what MD thinking about it ,and if i am honest if i had the money and the land to build a proper shelter i might
If nothing more than having a "Bat cave" ......geek alert
If nothing more than having a "Bat cave" ......geek alert
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Maddog Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:05 pm
Korben wrote:Are you disputing that estimate ??Maddog wrote:
Well, it's on the internet so it must be true.
https://www.finder.com/doomsday-prepper-statistics
Prepper is a pretty fluid term.
I think most people have made some preparations to survive a few days without power.
That doesn't mean they think the world is about to end.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by eddie Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:45 am
I think it’s time to just open up the country and see what happens.
In all honesty, the latest lockdown was a joke anyway. The only businesses that closed were “non-essential” shops, like clothes shops and charity shops. In my town, the dry cleaners was open! I mean, how is that essential? The shop “Superdrug” was open - it sells mostly make up and bathing products - but because it sells paracetamol and ibuprofen it got away with being called “essential”
Like I said, a fucking joke.
It was a fucking joke.
In all honesty, the latest lockdown was a joke anyway. The only businesses that closed were “non-essential” shops, like clothes shops and charity shops. In my town, the dry cleaners was open! I mean, how is that essential? The shop “Superdrug” was open - it sells mostly make up and bathing products - but because it sells paracetamol and ibuprofen it got away with being called “essential”
Like I said, a fucking joke.
It was a fucking joke.
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Re: How Britain Lost the Lockdown Battle
by Guest Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:06 am
I used to dabble as i said but gave it up because, i have a slight advantage to mostMaddog wrote:Korben wrote:
Are you disputing that estimate ??
https://www.finder.com/doomsday-prepper-statistics
Prepper is a pretty fluid term.
I think most people have made some preparations to survive a few days without power.
That doesn't mean they think the world is about to end.
i used to work in what we called the pit it was a fully equipped 200ft deep ish nuclear bunker with communication's network ,generators accommodation and tv studio and medical facility's ect ect
About 15 years ago maybe 20 the main entrance was demolished with its huge steel doors removed and filled into about 50 feet and that's was just basically the stair well and landscaped,but all the equipment that could not be removed (and they was a lot) was just left
However they are two hidden entrances one in the castle and one hidden in the hill some distance away basically a unassuming door
now although the castle entrance i don't know its location as that was for the brass who where stationed in the castle
But i do know where the other door is ,its covered in undergrowth and trees now but its still there .
My only worry would be the Rats ...(i hate rats) that have likely made it there home
but if push came to shove that's where i would head
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