"Dyslexia & ADHD Don't Exist"

2nd March 2014

I doubt there has ever been a society so easily fooled by pseudo-science and quackery as ours is. Millions of healthy people take happy pills that do them obvious harm, and are increasingly correlated with inexplicable suicide and worse.

Legions of healthy children are drugged into numbness because they fidget during boring lessons, and countless people are persuaded that they or their children suffer from a supposed disease called ‘dyslexia’, even though there is no evidence at all that it exists.

A few weeks ago I rejoiced at the first major cracks in this great towering dam of lies. Dr Richard Saul brought out his courageous and overdue book, ADHD Does Not Exist.

I also urge everyone to read James Davies’s book Cracked, on the inflated claims of psychiatry since it sold its soul to the pill-makers.

Now comes The Dyslexia Debate, published yesterday, a rigorous study of this alleged ailment by two distinguished academics – Professor Julian Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University.


Their book makes several points. There is no clear definition of what ‘dyslexia’ is. There is no objective diagnosis of it. Nobody can agree on how many people suffer from it. The widespread belief that it is linked with high intelligence does not stand up to analysis.

And, as Parliament’s Select Committee on Science and Technology said in 2009: ‘There is no convincing evidence that if a child with dyslexia is not labelled as dyslexic, but receives full support for his or her reading difficulty, that the child will do any worse than a child who is labelled dyslexic and then receives special help.’

This is because both are given exactly the same treatment. But as the book’s authors say: ‘Being labelled dyslexic can be perceived as desirable for many reasons.’ These include extra resources and extra time in exams. And then there’s the hope that it will ‘reduce the shame and embarrassment that are often the consequence of literacy difficulties. It may help exculpate the child, parents and teachers from any perceived sense of responsibility’.

I think that last point is the decisive one and the reason for the beetroot-faced fury that greets any critic of ‘dyslexia’ (and will probably greet this book and article). If it’s really a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. But it is somebody’s fault. For the book also describes the furious resistance, among teachers, to proven methods of teaching children to read. Such methods have been advocated by experts since Rudolf Flesch wrote his devastating book Why Johnny Can’t Read almost 60 years ago.

There may well be a small number of children who have physical problems that stop them learning to read. The invention of ‘dyslexia’ does nothing to help them. It means they are uselessly lumped in with millions of others who have simply been badly taught.

It also does nothing for that great majority of poor readers. They are robbed of one of life’s great pleasures and essential skills.

What they need, what we all need, is proper old-fashioned teaching, and who cares if the silly teachers think it is ‘authoritarian’? That’s what teaching is.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2570977/PETER-HITCHENS-Dyslexia-not-disease-It-excuse-bad-teachers.html#ixzz2un7UHKPz

‘There is no convincing evidence that if a child with dyslexia is not labelled as dyslexic, but receives full support for his or her reading difficulty, that the child will do any worse than a child who is labelled dyslexic and then receives special help.’

What? There's a double negative in there.

I was listening to someone on the radio discussing dyslexia during the week.

He was basically stating that their is noting to be gained by labeling a child as being dyslexic because what you do to help them is no different to what you would do to treat any other child with poor reading and writing skills.

They need good teachers, time and patience  

Yes...autism , dyslexia, Aspergers ....there all just made up and faked so folk can get extra benefits eh.

I think the OP title is a stupid- of course they do.

However I basically agree with FtL here; I do think those terms are applied far to easily these days for kids who are simply slow to learn or just downright naughty. Labeling them is just a way to excuse them and give up on them- and that is wrong.

they clearly do exist but I do think it has been used as an excuse for pupils who are just slow learners, if they get categorized is dyslexic or ADHD the school gets help and the student doesn't class as a failure on teachers or the school..

Eilzel wrote:I think the OP title is a stupid- of course they do.

However I basically agree with FtL here; I do think those terms are applied far to easily these days for kids who are simply slow to learn or just downright naughty. Labeling them is just a way to excuse them and give up on them- and that is wrong.

Eilzel, out wee man was diagnosed at 2 years and 6months - very early.

Three children's health professionals done the diagnosis, they know what to look out for and our wee lad obviously displaying the characteristics....

Autism is a huge spectrum Eilzel, our wee lad is learning makaton as he can not speak and has no sense of danger etc.


You know, I'm pissed off already, thread title like this etc are simply, done to wind people like me or TTS up.


PROPER diagnosis of conditions should meet certain criteria , I agree that of course they should be carried out properly , and in most cases, I'm sure they are.



It's very sad when threads continue to pick on those with a disadvantage, perhaps to make the thread creator feel better?, then of course, we have those nodding along agreeing that these conditions are all faked...from toddler to adult, just to get extra money?...


Come on folk, listen to what you are saying ffs!

Of course there will be a minority wrongly diagnosed, but the majority are diagnosed correctly, unless you think our health services are failing us terrible on these issues by giving the majority wrong diagnoses?


These health pros are trained in what to look out for btw, it's not a game, it is people's health...and some diagnosis like in autism, ,may not be as severe as with others, so because one has it milder, should they not have a diagnosis just because they are on the milder end of that condition?

Eilzel what you say about a bairn just being a bit daft isn't the case , there are normally reasons for a child being less able than others at learning skills, maths, English etc...


At many things in fact...right down to being unable to talk as my wee lad can't, but he is so clever though...and part from as much sense of danger as other kids!

This daftness you say is very often the result of a condition that bairn has that nobody else realises , which then affects their life as not having a diagnoses means they must be 'daft' or ' stupid' , they are then picked on relentlessly at school, perhaps even out of school too.

It helps parents immensely to have a diagnosis , for than they can start to plan which help would be best for their child, don't listen to BA Eilzel, he takes much pride in shouting that the diagnosis is only for the parents to fore in for extra benefits ....

Whole I like BA, sadly this is the fibre he is made of...slagging off disabled kids with autism, or even adults with Aspergers.

heavenly father wrote:
they clearly do exist but I do think it has been used as an excuse for pupils who are just slow learners, if they get categorized is dyslexic or ADHD the school gets help and the student doesn't class as a failure on teachers or the school..

  

GO FCKU YOURSELF, YOU 'ORRIBLE LITTLE 'DOG BOTHERER' !

  

heavenly father wrote:they clearly do exist but I do think it has been used as an excuse for pupils who are just slow learners, if they get categorized is dyslexic or ADHD the school gets help and the student doesn't class as a failure on teachers or the school..

I was a bit slower at school FAVVA , because I missed a fair bit, as I was seriously ill in hospital with a Bowel condition , I was afraid of the nurses as I thought they would hurt me again even though they were really trying to save and help me!,i couldn't trust people easily...

I was a bit slower at school, but started to catch up rapidly after a wee while....


There are often reasons if a child is slower at school, I'm still a bit slow today!!!!(no funny comments please) if we start to just lass the. All off as daft, then we have failed those children.
We must pay more attention.

Joy Division wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I think the OP title is a stupid- of course they do.

However I basically agree with FtL here; I do think those terms are applied far to easily these days for kids who are simply slow to learn or just downright naughty. Labeling them is just a way to excuse them and give up on them- and that is wrong.

Eilzel, out wee man was diagnosed at 2 years  and  6months - very early.

Three children's health professionals done the diagnosis, they know what to look out for  and our wee lad obviously displaying the characteristics....

Autism is a huge spectrum Eilzel, our wee lad is learning makaton as he can not speak and has no sense of danger etc.


You know, I'm pissed off already, thread title like this etc are simply, done to wind people like me or TTS up.


PROPER diagnosis of conditions should meet certain criteria , I agree that of course they should be carried out properly , and in most cases, I'm sure they are.



It's very sad when threads continue to pick on those with a disadvantage, perhaps to make the thread creator feel better?, then of course, we have those nodding along agreeing that these conditions are all faked...from toddler to adult, just to get extra money?...


Come on folk, listen to what you are saying ffs!

Of course there will be a minority wrongly diagnosed, but the majority are diagnosed correctly, unless you think our health services are failing us terrible on these issues by giving the majority wrong diagnoses?


These health pros are trained in what to look out for btw, it's not a game, it is people's health...and some diagnosis like in autism, ,may not be as severe as with others, so because one has it milder, should they not have a diagnosis just because they are on the milder end of that condition?

Eilzel what you say about a bairn just being a bit daft isn't the case , there are normally reasons for a child being less able than others at learning skills, maths, English etc...


At many things in fact...right down to being unable to talk as my wee lad can't, but he is so clever though...and part from  as much sense of danger as other kids!

This daftness you say is  very often the result of a condition that bairn has that nobody else realises , which then affects their life as not having a diagnoses means they must be 'daft' or ' stupid' , they are then picked on relentlessly at school, perhaps even out of school too.

It helps parents immensely to have a diagnosis , for than they can start to plan which help would be best for their child, don't listen to BA Eilzel, he takes much pride in shouting that the diagnosis is only for the parents to fore in for extra benefits ....

Whole I like BA, sadly this is the fibre he is made of...slagging off disabled kids with autism, or even adults with Aspergers.

Hi JD,

I am absolutely not saying these afflictions do not exist. They do, and I am aware there is a spectrum. My point is only that I doubt every case is actually valid. Sometimes it is just a case of a child requiring extra disciple or attention as they are as you say a little slower to learn.

I also oppose the OP title because it is BS and misleading and as you rightly say just another attempt to 'have a go' at benefits in general.

Joy Division wrote:

heavenly father wrote:they clearly do exist but I do think it has been used as an excuse for pupils who are just slow learners, if they get categorized is dyslexic or ADHD the school gets help and the student doesn't class as a failure on teachers or the school..

I was a bit slower at school FAVVA , because I missed a fair bit, as I was seriously ill in hospital with a Bowel condition , I was afraid of the nurses as I thought they would hurt me again even though they were really trying to save and help me!,i couldn't trust people easily...

I was a. It slower at school, but started to catch up rapidly after a wee while....


There are often reasons if a child is slower at school, I'm still a bit slow today!!!!(no funny comments please) if we start to just lass the. All off as daft, then we have failed those children.
We must pay more attention.

Sorry to hear about you illness JD, glad you came back tougher and better though..  

Eilzel wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


Eilzel, out wee man was diagnosed at 2 years  and  6months - very early.

Three children's health professionals done the diagnosis, they know what to look out for  and our wee lad obviously displaying the characteristics....

Autism is a huge spectrum Eilzel, our wee lad is learning makaton as he can not speak and has no sense of danger etc.


You know, I'm pissed off already, thread title like this etc are simply, done to wind people like me or TTS up.


PROPER diagnosis of conditions should meet certain criteria , I agree that of course they should be carried out properly , and in most cases, I'm sure they are.



It's very sad when threads continue to pick on those with a disadvantage, perhaps to make the thread creator feel better?, then of course, we have those nodding along agreeing that these conditions are all faked...from toddler to adult, just to get extra money?...


Come on folk, listen to what you are saying ffs!

Of course there will be a minority wrongly diagnosed, but the majority are diagnosed correctly, unless you think our health services are failing us terrible on these issues by giving the majority wrong diagnoses?


These health pros are trained in what to look out for btw, it's not a game, it is people's health...and some diagnosis like in autism, ,may not be as severe as with others, so because one has it milder, should they not have a diagnosis just because they are on the milder end of that condition?

Eilzel what you say about a bairn just being a bit daft isn't the case , there are normally reasons for a child being less able than others at learning skills, maths, English etc...


At many things in fact...right down to being unable to talk as my wee lad can't, but he is so clever though...and part from  as much sense of danger as other kids!

This daftness you say is  very often the result of a condition that bairn has that nobody else realises , which then affects their life as not having a diagnoses means they must be 'daft' or ' stupid' , they are then picked on relentlessly at school, perhaps even out of school too.

It helps parents immensely to have a diagnosis , for than they can start to plan which help would be best for their child, don't listen to BA Eilzel, he takes much pride in shouting that the diagnosis is only for the parents to fore in for extra benefits ....

Whole I like BA, sadly this is the fibre he is made of...slagging off disabled kids with autism, or even adults with Aspergers.

Hi JD,

I am absolutely not saying these afflictions do not exist. They do, and I am aware there is a spectrum. My point is only that I doubt every case is actually valid. Sometimes it is just a case of a child requiring extra disciple or attention as they are as you say a little slower to learn.

I also oppose the OP title because it is BS and misleading and as you rightly say just another attempt to 'have a go' at benefits in general.

I agree I do not think every case is valid, It can be used as an excuse to label slower kids....

Eilzel wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


Eilzel, out wee man was diagnosed at 2 years  and  6months - very early.

Three children's health professionals done the diagnosis, they know what to look out for  and our wee lad obviously displaying the characteristics....

Autism is a huge spectrum Eilzel, our wee lad is learning makaton as he can not speak and has no sense of danger etc.


You know, I'm pissed off already, thread title like this etc are simply, done to wind people like me or TTS up.


PROPER diagnosis of conditions should meet certain criteria , I agree that of course they should be carried out properly , and in most cases, I'm sure they are.



It's very sad when threads continue to pick on those with a disadvantage, perhaps to make the thread creator feel better?, then of course, we have those nodding along agreeing that these conditions are all faked...from toddler to adult, just to get extra money?...


Come on folk, listen to what you are saying ffs!

Of course there will be a minority wrongly diagnosed, but the majority are diagnosed correctly, unless you think our health services are failing us terrible on these issues by giving the majority wrong diagnoses?


These health pros are trained in what to look out for btw, it's not a game, it is people's health...and some diagnosis like in autism, ,may not be as severe as with others, so because one has it milder, should they not have a diagnosis just because they are on the milder end of that condition?

Eilzel what you say about a bairn just being a bit daft isn't the case , there are normally reasons for a child being less able than others at learning skills, maths, English etc...


At many things in fact...right down to being unable to talk as my wee lad can't, but he is so clever though...and part from  as much sense of danger as other kids!

This daftness you say is  very often the result of a condition that bairn has that nobody else realises , which then affects their life as not having a diagnoses means they must be 'daft' or ' stupid' , they are then picked on relentlessly at school, perhaps even out of school too.

It helps parents immensely to have a diagnosis , for than they can start to plan which help would be best for their child, don't listen to BA Eilzel, he takes much pride in shouting that the diagnosis is only for the parents to fore in for extra benefits ....

Whole I like BA, sadly this is the fibre he is made of...slagging off disabled kids with autism, or even adults with Aspergers.

Hi JD,

I am absolutely not saying these afflictions do not exist. They do, and I am aware there is a spectrum. My point is only that I doubt every case is actually valid. Sometimes it is just a case of a child requiring extra disciple or attention as they are as you say a little slower to learn.

I also oppose the OP title because it is BS and misleading and as you rightly say just another attempt to 'have a go' at benefits in general.

Alright Eilzel, your right , there definitely are cases where some children are misdiagnosed for various reasons I guess...


Thank goodness we have posters like yourself who can see right through these benefit haters and the way the word things, not too mention BA having himself said previously that he believes many of these conditions to be non existent and just fabricated...

Your damn right mate...this thread title is bollocks and made to annoy others.

heavenly father wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I was a bit slower at school FAVVA , because I missed a fair bit, as I was seriously ill in hospital with a Bowel condition , I was afraid of the nurses as I thought they would hurt me again even though they were really trying to save and help me!,i couldn't trust people easily...

I was a. It slower at school, but started to catch up rapidly after a wee while....


There are often reasons if a child is slower at school, I'm still a bit slow today!!!!(no funny comments please) if we start to just lass the. All off as daft, then we have failed those children.
We must pay more attention.

Sorry to hear about you illness JD, glad you came back tougher and better though..  

Thanks Favva, I've something similar as well to spina bifida, I don't look like anything is wrong with me, but I have a split cord malformation and some trouble with my right leg ...

But yeah it was the bowel thing that was killing me as a child, but as you say ...I'm much better now , as I has to adjust and catch up on life as quickly as I could!

But the thing with autism and other conditions is that they are only now being taken seriously and some kids years back could have been autistic , but just passed off as 'daft'.

But yes , misdiagnosis sometimes does happen, and over diagnosis too, bit if carried out properly by health professionals it should not really happen.

So is there a sense that these conditions are over-diagnosed? I wonder about that too. I also wonder if bipolar disorder is over-diagnosed.

BigAndy9 wrote:
2nd March 2014

I doubt there has ever been...    so easily fooled by pseudo-science and quackery...

Legions of healthy children are drugged into numbness...

A few weeks ago I rejoiced at our first major crocks...
Dr Richard Saul brought out his..  book, ADHD Does Not Exist.

I urge everyone to also read James Davies’s book Cracked... since he sold his soul to the pill-makers..

Now comes The Dyslexia Debate, published yesterday, a new round of lies denouncing an existent ailment by two faux academics – Professor Julian Elliott of Du'h University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Pale Ale University.

Their... points..
There is no clear definition of what ‘dyslexia’ is.
There is no objective diagnosis of it.
Nobody can agree on how many people suffer from it.
The widespread belief that it is linked with high intelligence..

Parliament’s Select Committee on Science and Technology said in 2009: ‘There is convincing evidence that, if a child with dyslexia is not labelled as dyslexic, but receives full support for his or her reading difficulty, that the child will certainly do worse than a child who is labelled dyslexic and then receives special help.’
......................................................................
I think that last point is the decisive one....                   If it’s really a disease, it’s nobody’s fault...  
... the book also describes the furious resistance, among teachers, to unproven methods...

There may well be a number of children who have physical problems that stop them learning to read...
It also does nothing for  that great majority of poor readers..

What they need, what we all need, is more proper old-fashioned hidings...
and who cares if the silly teachers think it is ‘authoritarian’?
That’s what teaching is all about in my books !

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2570977/PETER-HITCHENS-Dyslexia-not-disease-It-excuse-bad-teachers.html#ixzz2un7UHKPz

Or not, I don't care either way..

   

THIS latest round of lying old rubbish on B'Andy's part only goes to prove what every fair-minded member on here has been stating and/or suspecting about him for some months now !

feelthelove wrote:I was listening to someone on the radio discussing dyslexia during the week.

He was basically stating that their is noting to be gained by labeling a child as being dyslexic because what you do to help them is no different to what you would do to treat any other child with poor reading and writing skills.

They need good teachers, time and patience  

Absolutely agree, I hate the rush to label. ADHD is, in my opinion, massively over diagnosed.
I know there are lots of things that can be put in place to help a dyslexic child.

Labelling is fashionable and in my opinion harmful.

Joy Division wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I think the OP title is a stupid- of course they do.

However I basically agree with FtL here; I do think those terms are applied far to easily these days for kids who are simply slow to learn or just downright naughty. Labeling them is just a way to excuse them and give up on them- and that is wrong.

Eilzel, out wee man was diagnosed at 2 years  and  6months - very early.

Three children's health professionals done the diagnosis, they know what to look out for  and our wee lad obviously displaying the characteristics....

Autism is a huge spectrum Eilzel, our wee lad is learning makaton as he can not speak and has no sense of danger etc.


You know, I'm pissed off already, thread title like this etc are simply, done to wind people like me or TTS up.


PROPER diagnosis of conditions should meet certain criteria , I agree that of course they should be carried out properly , and in most cases, I'm sure they are.



It's very sad when threads continue to pick on those with a disadvantage, perhaps to make the thread creator feel better?, then of course, we have those nodding along agreeing that these conditions are all faked...from toddler to adult, just to get extra money?...


Come on folk, listen to what you are saying ffs!

Of course there will be a minority wrongly diagnosed, but the majority are diagnosed correctly, unless you think our health services are failing us terrible on these issues by giving the majority wrong diagnoses?


These health pros are trained in what to look out for btw, it's not a game, it is people's health...and some diagnosis like in autism, ,may not be as severe as with others, so because one has it milder, should they not have a diagnosis just because they are on the milder end of that condition?

Eilzel what you say about a bairn just being a bit daft isn't the case , there are normally reasons for a child being less able than others at learning skills, maths, English etc...


At many things in fact...right down to being unable to talk as my wee lad can't, but he is so clever though...and part from  as much sense of danger as other kids!

This daftness you say is  very often the result of a condition that bairn has that nobody else realises , which then affects their life as not having a diagnoses means they must be 'daft' or ' stupid' , they are then picked on relentlessly at school, perhaps even out of school too.

It helps parents immensely to have a diagnosis , for than they can start to plan which help would be best for their child, don't listen to BA Eilzel, he takes much pride in shouting that the diagnosis is only for the parents to fore in for extra benefits ....

Whole I like BA, sadly this is the fibre he is made of...slagging off disabled kids with autism, or even adults with Aspergers.

Well, it seems Andy thinks that dyslexia just means having difficulty reading and writing JD.   Having had a daughter who had very bad dyslexia and dyspraxia, I know that isn't the case.   She didn't sit up until she was 18 months, didn't walk until she was gone three, was always falling over,  was useless at directions, had an IQ that when it was measured by a special test for dyslexics showed at over 140, couldn't judge distances properly, and when she tried to do a cycling proficiency course with the police, they brought her home and asked us never to let her on the road under any circumstances.   Andy doesn't seem to realise what dyslexia is:


About dyslexia and dyspraxia

Dyslexia affects skills involved in reading, writing and spelling.

Dyslexia is what is called a specific learning difficulty. This means it affects only some skills and abilities, and is not linked to the general level of intelligence of the person who has it.

It is thought to be caused by problems in the way the brain processes information and this results in messages not being properly or fully transmitted.

People who have dyslexia generally have difficulties in some or all of the following areas:

   Reading
   Writing
   Spelling
   Maths
   Understanding sequences and patterns
   Knowing left from right, map reading skills
   Organisation
   Short term memory
   Speaking and language skills.

Dyslexia can often exist alongside other related conditions, including autistic spectrum disorder, attention deficit hyperactiivty disorder (ADHD) and dyspraxia.

If dyslexia is not recognised or the person is not well supported, it can cause  low self-esteem, anger, behavioural problems and other issues. Young people may feel they are stupid or worthless, and will never succeed in life. They may get very frustrated and bored when confronted with tasks they find difficult, and can react by playing up, distracting others or refusing to take part.

It is really important to recognise the emotional impact dyslexia may be having, and to try and support the child with this.

Dyspraxia affects movement and co-ordination. Like dyslexia, it is a specific learning difficulty, which means it only affects some skills and abilities, and is not linked to the general level of intelligence of the person who has it.

The cause may be that systems for processing information in the brain are not fully developed and messages not transmitted properly. Estimates put the number of children experiencing the condition at between two and 10 per cent of the population. Boys are four times more likely to be affected than girls.

People who have dyspraxia generally have difficulties in some or all of the following areas:

   Balance
   Co-ordination
   Dressing and eating skills
   Following instructions
   Organisation and short term memory
   Speaking and listening
   Holding pens/pencils and handwriting
   Social skills and friendships.

Children with dyspraxia are often slow to develop skills such as sitting up, crawling and walking. They may take longer than other children to learn skills such as riding a bike, may run in an awkward way and can often fall over or fall off seats. They may also be oversensitive to noises, lights, touch and other stimuli. Their language difficulties can make it harder to make friends and communicate, and they can be very literal in the way they understand things, and find it hard to play and think imaginatively.

Dyspraxia can often exist alongside other related conditions, including autistic spectrum disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and dyslexia.

If dyspraxia is not recognised or the person is not well supported, it can cause problems such as low self-esteem, anger, behavioural problems and other issues. Young people may feel stupid or clumsy, and may be bullied by others. They may get very frustrated and upset when confronted with the tasks they find difficult, and can react by playing up, distracting others or refusing to take part.

It is really important to recognise the emotional impact dyspraxia may be having, and to try and support the child with this.

http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_parents/worried_about_your_child/dyslexia_dyspraxia/about_dyslexia_dyspraxia

That about sums them up.


It's no good teaching by the same methods taught to children who are just having trouble learning to read.   In her case for example, pink lenses in glasses helped her to read, not something that will help the normal reading problems.    It never ceases to amaze me how people love to put down other people because they have problems and make out they are just 'naughty' etc.  

I think Andy has a learning problem, and a personality problem.   It's probably not his fault though.

Dare I suggest somewhere on the antisocial personality spectrum possibly with cross over into the psychopathy/sociopathy area. A brain scan (which is diagnostic) would be interesting.

sphinx wrote:Dare I suggest somewhere on the antisocial personality spectrum possibly with cross over into the psychopathy/sociopathy area.  A brain scan (which is diagnostic) would be interesting.

Not ANTIsocial, a difficulty dealing with social issues. In her case it made her too trusting, she couldn't see the bad in anyone.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:Dare I suggest somewhere on the antisocial personality spectrum possibly with cross over into the psychopathy/sociopathy area.  A brain scan (which is diagnostic) would be interesting.

Not ANTIsocial, a difficulty dealing with social issues.   In her case it made her too trusting, she couldn't see the bad in anyone.

Not your daughter Sassy - I was referring to Andy - sorry.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Not ANTIsocial, a difficulty dealing with social issues.   In her case it made her too trusting, she couldn't see the bad in anyone.

Not your daughter Sassy - I was referring to Andy - sorry.

LOL, no worries, I'll definitely agree on that! In that case, a brain scan would probably end up smoking, screaming 'it does not compute' over and over again.

Sassy, you've said everything I can possibly remember or think of, but kids with autism or and dyspraxia also often don't make good eye contact with others...

My oldest lad had a mate , both at high school now, who has many of the characteristics you describe.

Amd we really should all be listening to folk like you who have first hand experience of issues like this,rather than guessing or playing ignorant to the facts.

BigAndy9 wrote:2nd March 2014

I doubt there has ever been a society so easily fooled by pseudo-science and quackery as ours is. Millions of healthy people take happy pills that do them obvious harm, and are increasingly correlated with inexplicable suicide and worse.

Legions of healthy children are drugged into numbness because they fidget during boring lessons, and countless people are persuaded that they or their children suffer from a supposed disease called ‘dyslexia’, even though there is no evidence at all that it exists.

A few weeks ago I rejoiced at the first major cracks in this great towering dam of lies. Dr Richard Saul brought out his courageous and overdue book, ADHD Does Not Exist.

I also urge everyone to read James Davies’s book Cracked, on the inflated claims of psychiatry since it sold its soul to the pill-makers.

Now comes The Dyslexia Debate, published yesterday, a rigorous study of this alleged ailment by two distinguished academics – Professor Julian Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University.


Their book makes several points. There is no clear definition of what ‘dyslexia’ is. There is no objective diagnosis of it. Nobody can agree on how many people suffer from it. The widespread belief that it is linked with high intelligence does not stand up to analysis.

And, as Parliament’s Select Committee on Science and Technology said in 2009: ‘There is no convincing evidence that if a child with dyslexia is not labelled as dyslexic, but receives full support for his or her reading difficulty, that the child will do any worse than a child who is labelled dyslexic and then receives special help.’

This is because both are given exactly the same treatment. But as the book’s authors say: ‘Being labelled dyslexic can be perceived as desirable for many reasons.’ These include extra resources and extra time in exams. And then there’s the hope that it will ‘reduce the shame and embarrassment that are often the consequence of literacy difficulties. It may help exculpate the child, parents and teachers from any perceived sense of responsibility’.

I think that last point is the decisive one and the reason for the beetroot-faced fury that greets any critic of ‘dyslexia’ (and will probably greet this book and article). If it’s really a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. But it is somebody’s fault. For the book also describes the furious resistance, among teachers, to proven methods of teaching children to read. Such methods have been advocated by experts since Rudolf Flesch wrote his devastating book Why Johnny Can’t Read almost 60 years ago.

There may well be a small number of children who have physical problems that stop them learning to read. The invention of ‘dyslexia’ does nothing to help them. It means they are uselessly lumped in with millions of others who have simply been badly taught.

It also does nothing for that great majority of poor readers. They are robbed of one of life’s great pleasures and essential skills.

What they need, what we all need, is proper old-fashioned teaching, and who cares if the silly teachers think it is ‘authoritarian’? That’s what teaching is.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2570977/PETER-HITCHENS-Dyslexia-not-disease-It-excuse-bad-teachers.html#ixzz2un7UHKPz

What utter fucking shit you talk.
My own daughter has aspergers. was diagnosed at 2 years old.
Developed it after her 2nd bout of viral pneumonia in a year, left her oxygen depleted.
Bit like some rwhingers on here.

Why do some people keep thinking this thread is about aspergers?

Handy Andy wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:2nd March 2014

I doubt there has ever been a society so easily fooled by pseudo-science and quackery as ours is. Millions of healthy people take happy pills that  do them obvious harm, and are increasingly correlated with inexplicable suicide  and worse.

Legions of healthy children are drugged into numbness because they fidget during  boring lessons, and countless people are persuaded that they or their children suffer from  a supposed disease called ‘dyslexia’, even though there is no evidence at all that it exists.

A few weeks ago I rejoiced at the first major cracks in this great towering dam of lies. Dr Richard Saul brought out his courageous and overdue book, ADHD Does Not Exist.

I also urge everyone to read James Davies’s book Cracked, on the inflated claims of psychiatry since it sold its soul to the pill-makers.

Now comes The Dyslexia Debate, published yesterday, a rigorous study of this alleged ailment by two distinguished academics – Professor Julian  Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University.


Their book makes several points. There is no clear definition of what ‘dyslexia’ is. There is no objective diagnosis of it. Nobody can agree on how many people suffer from it. The widespread belief that it is linked with high intelligence does not stand up to analysis.

And, as Parliament’s Select Committee on Science and Technology said in 2009: ‘There is no convincing evidence  that if a child with dyslexia is not labelled as dyslexic, but receives full support for his or her reading difficulty, that the child will do any worse than a child who is labelled dyslexic and then receives special help.’

This is because both are given exactly the same treatment. But as the book’s authors say: ‘Being labelled dyslexic can be perceived as desirable for many reasons.’ These include extra resources and extra time in exams. And then there’s the hope that it will ‘reduce the shame and embarrassment that are often the consequence of literacy difficulties. It may help exculpate the child, parents and teachers from any perceived sense of responsibility’.

I think that last point is the decisive one and the reason for the beetroot-faced fury that greets any critic of ‘dyslexia’ (and will probably greet this book and article). If it’s really a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. But it is somebody’s fault. For the book also describes the furious resistance, among teachers,  to proven methods of teaching children to read. Such methods have been advocated by  experts since Rudolf Flesch wrote his devastating book Why Johnny Can’t Read almost 60 years ago.

There may well be a small number of children who have physical problems that stop them learning to read. The invention of ‘dyslexia’ does nothing to help them. It means they are uselessly lumped in with millions of others who have simply been badly taught.

It also does nothing for  that great majority of poor readers. They are robbed of one of life’s great pleasures and essential skills.

What they need, what we all need, is proper old-fashioned teaching, and who cares if the silly teachers think it is ‘authoritarian’? That’s what teaching is.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2570977/PETER-HITCHENS-Dyslexia-not-disease-It-excuse-bad-teachers.html#ixzz2un7UHKPz

What utter fucking shit you talk.
My own daughter has aspergers. was diagnosed at 2 years old.
Developed it after her 2nd bout of viral pneumonia in a year, left her oxygen depleted.
Bit like some rwhingers on here.

..there's no telling him Andy, he knows far more than the health professionals who see this daily...

If it came from the DM, it must be gospel.

Raggamuffin wrote:Why do some people keep thinking this thread is about aspergers?

Some of these conditions almost go hand in hand with each other , with certain people.

I dont know.

ADHD - attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
Dyslexia - problems seeing letters and words
Dyspraxia - problems with balance and co-ordination
Aspergers - a form of high functioning autism often resulting in problems reading social signals
Autism - a developmental brain disorder occurring on a spectrum from capable of full independence all the way to completely disabled.

Joy Division wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why do some people keep thinking this thread is about aspergers?

Some of these conditions almost go hand in hand with each other , with certain people.

That does not make them either the same condition or have the same name. Saying (for arguments sake) that dyslexia does not exist is not saying aspergers or autism do not exist.

sphinx wrote:I dont know.

ADHD - attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
Dyslexia - problems seeing letters and words
Dyspraxia - problems with balance and co-ordination
Aspergers - a form of high functioning autism often resulting in problems reading social signals
Autism - a developmental brain disorder occurring on a spectrum from capable of full independence all the way to completely disabled.

Yes you have described very brief symptoms of theses conditions, there is a lot more Sphinx.

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


Some of these conditions almost go hand in hand with each other , with certain people.

That does not make them either the same condition or have the same name.  Saying (for arguments sake) that dyslexia does not exist is not saying aspergers or autism do not exist.

sphinx, some people who have autism can also have ADHD you know.

Some people can have more than one of these conditions at the same time.

We are talking Peter Hitchins.
The most vile man in Fleet Street.
Did you read his support for Putin and his oligarch crony thugs today?

Handy Andy wrote:We are talking Peter Hitchins.
The most vile man in Fleet Street.
Did you read his support for Putin and his oligarch crony thugs today?

I never Andy, Russia has so much to be ashamed of with its persecution and violence toward gays.

Joy Division wrote:

sphinx wrote:

That does not make them either the same condition or have the same name.  Saying (for arguments sake) that dyslexia does not exist is not saying aspergers or autism do not exist.

sphinx, some people who have autism can also have ADHD you know.

Some people can have more than one of these conditions at the same time.

Yes JD I know - but that does not mean that saying ADHD does not exist means that autism does not exist.

You do realise that the article talks about the findings of Professor Julian Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University?

Did any of you read the article?

BigAndy9 wrote:You do realise that the article talks about the findings of Professor Julian  Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University?

Did any of you read the article?

Yes I did read it - and while they do have some strong points their methodology has some holes - I would say they would have been better concluding the condition was massively massively over diagnosed to cover for bad teaching.

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:You do realise that the article talks about the findings of Professor Julian  Elliott of Durham University, and Professor Elena Grigorenko of Yale University?

Did any of you read the article?

Yes I did read it - and while they do have some strong points their methodology has some holes - I would say they would have been better concluding the condition was massively massively over diagnosed to cover for bad teaching.

That could be the case sphinx.

I was pointing out to some that it wasn't I, or the Daily Mail who is saying it.