POLL: Who will win the U.S. presidential election?

by Ben Reilly Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:37 pm

Let's see if NF can predict the outcome!

by Ben Reilly Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:14 pm

It would also be fun to put who you want to win in the comments.

by Syl Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:43 am

I want the better looking one to win.

POLL: Who will win the U.S. presidential election? _1151810

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:58 am

I want Biden, think he'll take it but it'll be close.

And my oh my who knew he was such a looker back in the day Shocked

by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:13 am

It wouldn't surprise me either way which one wins... And I don't really care to be honest...

Asking me which one i'd prefer to win, is pretty much like flipping a coin and asking me if I want heads or tails... And I would be hoping that the coin landed on its edge...!

lol!

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:28 am

I'm leaning toward it being a Trump win at this point. Unless a lot of mail-ins still need to be counted in the Rust Belt this is a repeat of 2016.

When will the Democrats choose passion over corporate dinosaurs?

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:32 am

I'm done guessing. I suck at this game.

Actually, Trump is such a wild card that he can outperform polls by 5 or 6 percent. That just doesn't happen.

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:37 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm leaning toward it being a Trump win at this point. Unless a lot of mail-ins still need to be counted in the Rust Belt this is a repeat of 2016.

When will the Democrats choose passion over corporate dinosaurs?

The northern wall is crumbling. Much like Labour they have abandoned blue color workers in favor of progressive special interest groups.

A steelworker who goes to church and owns a deer rifle has no place in the Democratic party anymore.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:44 am

Maddog wrote:I'm done guessing. I suck at this game.

Actually, Trump is such a wild card that he can outperform polls by 5 or 6 percent. That just doesn't happen.

The polls suck. I think the medium doesn't work in the age of social media and the internet. Far too many variables. People used to vote in blocks but we saw in the UK that that doesn't really happen anymore.

They were off in 2016 in a few states. They got Brexit wrong (just). They screwed up in the 2019 UK election in terms of how badly Labour lost a lot of the North.

But this would be their biggest fuck up yet, and impossible to come back from imo. Nate Silver and Project 538 will be finished. Listening to them evaluating everything based on 'models' was irritating enough when they may have been right, since they didn't account for the fact people aren't numbers. Now they just sound braindead.

by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:33 am

The polls predicted 90-98% Hillary Clinton win last US elec... The polls predicted remain win in Brexit referendum...

And the polls were way out on the scale of the labour drubbing in last UK gen elec... Aren't I right in saying that most predicted a tight run race and a labour victory...???

lol!

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:22 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

The polls predicted 90-98% Hillary Clinton win last US elec... The polls predicted remain win in Brexit referendum...

And the polls were way out on the scale of the labour drubbing in last UK gen elec... Aren't I right in saying that most predicted a tight run race and a labour victory...???

I wouldn't put too much stock when polls get into placing odds on an event happening.

by Tommy Monk Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:43 am

Not my words... The % ratings were what was claimed at the time...

Seems they were admitting that they didn't completely believe their own bullshit...

lol!

by Ben Reilly Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:23 am

Biden is still the likely winner and is far ahead of Trump in the popular vote as well. It shouldn't be a surprise that the election will take longer to tally, given the pandemic. Still, Trump will do slightly better than the polls predicted.

When the counting is done in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Biden will be the 46th president.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:08 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Biden is still the likely winner and is far ahead of Trump in the popular vote as well. It shouldn't be a surprise that the election will take longer to tally, given the pandemic. Still, Trump will do slightly better than the polls predicted.

When the counting is done in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Biden will be the 46th president.

Popular vote was never in doubt. Democrats have won all but one in 1992. It is shameful that the system there has given Republicans the unjust win 2, now maybe 3 times.

I hope you're right. It has been a dismal morning (Thai time) compared to what was expected. If I had to bet, I'd bet the other way, even though what the 'experts' say suggests those key states will swing left when postal votes are counted.

by Ben Reilly Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:18 pm

Looking like Biden will narrowly win Wisconsin. He can afford to lose Pennsylvania if he wins Michigan, and scrape through with 270 electoral votes exactly.

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:25 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Looking like Biden will narrowly win Wisconsin. He can afford to lose Pennsylvania if he wins Michigan, and scrape through with 270 electoral votes exactly.

Yeah, it looks like Biden will win Wisconsin and Michigan but those margins are so razor thin that they are going to be challenged for weeks.

It also appears that Senate isn't going to flip.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:27 pm

This has been a roller coaster of day honestly lol

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Not my words... The % ratings were what was claimed at the time...

Seems they were admitting that they didn't completely believe their own bullshit...

I know they're not your views. But the polls, when taken altogether give you a pretty close idea of where each state lies. But the polls being close, but off about 4 percent can make it pretty interesting.

I think when it's all over, most polls will be within 3-4 percent.

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:32 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Biden is still the likely winner and is far ahead of Trump in the popular vote as well. It shouldn't be a surprise that the election will take longer to tally, given the pandemic. Still, Trump will do slightly better than the polls predicted.

When the counting is done in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Biden will be the 46th president.

Popular vote was never in doubt. Democrats have won all but one in 1992. It is shameful that the system there has given Republicans the unjust win 2, now maybe 3 times.

I hope you're right. It has been a dismal morning (Thai time) compared to what was expected. If I had to bet, I'd bet the other way, even though what the 'experts' say suggests those key states will swing left when postal votes are counted.

Pretty sure Bush won the popular vote in 2004.

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:15 pm

If there is an afterlife, John McCain is laughing at Trump. I think part of the reason AZ flipped is the way Trump was such a dick to McCain who was well respected by most people, especially the people of Arizona.

by Eilzel Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:43 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Biden is still the likely winner and is far ahead of Trump in the popular vote as well. It shouldn't be a surprise that the election will take longer to tally, given the pandemic. Still, Trump will do slightly better than the polls predicted.

When the counting is done in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Biden will be the 46th president.

Popular vote was never in doubt. Democrats have won all but one in 1992. It is shameful that the system there has given Republicans the unjust win 2, now maybe 3 times.

I hope you're right. It has been a dismal morning (Thai time) compared to what was expected. If I had to bet, I'd bet the other way, even though what the 'experts' say suggests those key states will swing left when postal votes are counted.

Pretty sure Bush won the popular vote in 2004.

He did. That was the 'but one' Smile

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:41 pm

Wisconsin is all but counted. Michigan appears to be Biden's.

Probably wont matter that the idiots in Pennsylvania cant run an election where votes get counted in a reasonable amount of time.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:15 pm

Y'all are right Tommy and Les...the polls do suck. I was willing to say it was an anomaly in 2016, but now it seems more of a trend.

Perhaps, as you say Les, there are too many variables. But that makes polls more complex, not wrong. You simply have to include more items in the cross-tabs and regression analyses to account for more variables.

Something is leading the polls off-course. Whether it is deliberate, or benign error is yet to be determined. Even when it is error within the range of standard deviation, it's still always a leftward bias. Beginning in 2016, and now in 2020, over 50-states, that defies the law of averages.

by Maddog Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:38 pm

May wind up 270 to 268.

I'm OK with that. It removes Trump but sends a very clear message to Biden. You're just very slightly less of a piece of shit. Don't strut around like you have a mandate. Keep the machine called the federal government operating well and don't try to fundamentally change anything. And if you do try, the folks in the Senate and Supreme Court will be there to correct you.

by Original Quill Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:23 am

Maddog wrote:May wind up 270 to 268.

I'm OK with that. It removes Trump but sends a very clear message to Biden. You're just very slightly less of a piece of shit. Don't strut around like you have a mandate. Keep the machine called the federal government operating well and don't try to fundamentally change anything. And if you do try, the folks in the Senate and Supreme Court will be there to correct you.

Hey, Trump strutted around having lost by 3-million votes. Biden can do all the strutting he wants.

One thing learned from Republicans is, margins don't matter. Power matters. Live for today and do what you can, while you can.

As far as the Senate is concerned, ignore them. Make provisional appointments like Trump did, now that the precedent is there. What can they do if he makes provisional appointments to the courts? Art. III, section 1 gives them lifetime appointments. He can pack the courts and they still have lifetime appointments once appointed...according to the Constitution.

Rolling Eyes

by Didgee Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:55 am

Well little choice of rationality in this election

We have one clown, Trump that is anti-science on climate change, Covid 19, xeophobic, misogynistic and bigoted

We then have another clown, Biden, who is anti-science, with critical race and Queer Theory. misogynistic and woke

Not much of a choice

Dark times continue ahead, no matter who wins for the Americans

by Ben Reilly Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:47 am

Maddog wrote:I'm done guessing. I suck at this game.

Actually, Trump is such a wild card that he can outperform polls by 5 or 6 percent. That just doesn't happen.

That's the "shy Trump" factor of voters who hang up on pollsters because they think polls are part of the establishment.

by Maddog Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:17 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:I'm done guessing. I suck at this game.

Actually, Trump is such a wild card that he can outperform polls by 5 or 6 percent. That just doesn't happen.

That's the "shy Trump" factor of voters who hang up on pollsters because they think polls are part of the establishment.

I think that's part of it. The polls missed the Senate pretty good too. Not as bad as Quill, but he has a gift.

by Original Quill Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:45 pm

Didgee wrote:Well little choice of rationality in this election

We have one clown, Trump that is anti-science on climate change, Covid 19, xeophobic, misogynistic and bigoted

We then have another clown, Biden, who is anti-science, with critical race and Queer Theory. misogynistic and woke

Not much of a choice

Dark times continue ahead, no matter who wins for the Americans

Binary choice elections, eh?

by Maddog Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didgee wrote:Well little choice of rationality in this election

We have one clown, Trump that is anti-science on climate change, Covid 19, xeophobic, misogynistic and bigoted

We then have another clown, Biden, who is anti-science, with critical race and Queer Theory. misogynistic and woke

Not much of a choice

Dark times continue ahead, no matter who wins for the Americans

Binary choice elections, eh?

My ballot had 4 choices printed, and the option to write in someone.

by Original Quill Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:40 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Binary choice elections, eh?

My ballot had 4 choices printed, and the option to write in someone.

Two of them were fake choices. It was a binary election.

by Didgee Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

My ballot had 4 choices printed, and the option to write in someone.

Two of them were fake choices. It was a binary election.

Fake choices?

wow

Quill trying to impose his beliefs on the elections in Texas

For some weird reason, he wises to deny people a right to have 4 choices in who they vote for

wow again

by Original Quill Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:08 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Two of them were fake choices. It was a binary election.

Fake choices?

wow

Quill trying to impose his beliefs on the elections in Texas

For some weird reason, he wises to deny people a right to have 4 choices in who they vote for

wow again

Who said anything about rights? The fact that the choices were on the ballot is evidence that no one was denied any rights. The opportunity was made available, and that’s all the authorities can do. Anything more would be unlawful interference.

That said, the two choices that were offered, were bound not to get any business. It's a free market, but realistically, 'bimbo' election choices don't get many votes in the US. It always, inevitably reduces down to a binary choice.

by Didgee Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didgee wrote:

Fake choices?

wow

Quill trying to impose his beliefs on the elections in Texas

For some weird reason, he wises to deny people a right to have 4 choices in who they vote for

wow again

Who said anything about rights? The fact that the choices were on the ballot is evidence that no one was denied any rights. The opportunity was made available, and that’s all the authorities can do. Anything more would be unlawful interference.

That said, the two choices that were offered, were bound not to get any business. It's a free market, but realistically, 'bimbo' election choices don't get many votes in the US. It always, inevitably reduces down to a binary choice.

Hence not fake choices, because the choice a person makes in an election is real to them and not fake

Hence you do not get to decide what is real or fake based on your beliefs, do you?

The right choice, is the choice the individual chooses, not what some Californian narcissist decides

by Maddog Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:29 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Who said anything about rights? The fact that the choices were on the ballot is evidence that no one was denied any rights. The opportunity was made available, and that’s all the authorities can do. Anything more would be unlawful interference.

That said, the two choices that were offered, were bound not to get any business. It's a free market, but realistically, 'bimbo' election choices don't get many votes in the US. It always, inevitably reduces down to a binary choice.

Hence not fake choices, because the choice a person makes in an election is real to them and not fake

Hence you do not get to decide what is real or fake based on your beliefs, do you?

The right choice, is the choice the individual chooses, not what some Californian narcissist decides

Quill had a least 3 choices on his ballot. Probably 4.

Unless he voted in the Pacific States of America election. Rolling Eyes

by Original Quill Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:49 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Who said anything about rights? The fact that the choices were on the ballot is evidence that no one was denied any rights. The opportunity was made available, and that’s all the authorities can do. Anything more would be unlawful interference.

That said, the two choices that were offered, were bound not to get any business. It's a free market, but realistically, 'bimbo' election choices don't get many votes in the US. It always, inevitably reduces down to a binary choice.

Hence not fake choices, because the choice a person makes in an election is real to them and not fake

Hence you do not get to decide what is real or fake based on your beliefs, do you?

The right choice, is the choice the individual chooses, not what some Californian narcissist decides

Every vote is important to him or herself, the individual voter. But there is a difference between what matters to the individual, and what matters to the overall population. Individuals, by themselves, don’t elect anyone.

Statistically, a bimbo election box is one which can be anticipated to be ignored by most voters. It is included on the ballot to serve pc concerns--ie, that everyone gets an opportunity to be considered. But realistically, that candidate is not going to get much business.

by Eilzel Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:28 am

Watching the press conferences between Trump and Biden, it is absolutely clear that even though neither are ideal candidates, one is a divisive petulant cry baby and the other, while tired and lame, is at least going to work to bring the country together and bring a level of maturity back to US politics.

It will be a fucking breath of fresh air if nothing else.

by Maddog Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:54 am

Eilzel wrote:Watching the press conferences between Trump and Biden, it is absolutely clear that even though neither are ideal candidates, one is a divisive petulant cry baby and the other, while tired and lame, is at least going to work to bring the country together and bring a level of maturity back to US politics.

It will be a fucking breath of fresh air if nothing else.

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

by Eilzel Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:06 am

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Watching the press conferences between Trump and Biden, it is absolutely clear that even though neither are ideal candidates, one is a divisive petulant cry baby and the other, while tired and lame, is at least going to work to bring the country together and bring a level of maturity back to US politics.

It will be a fucking breath of fresh air if nothing else.

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

The time it is taking is absurd!

The lack of faith in the process is almost wholly due to Trump's deliberate statement on election night suggesting foul play. That was calculated on the part of him and his team.

This was always going to be an unusual election due to mail in voting being huge in Covid. But I imagine if they'd counted mail ins FIRST in Michigan, PA and Georgia then Trump's attitude right now would be much different.

by Maddog Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:20 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

The time it is taking is absurd!

The lack of faith in the process is almost wholly due to Trump's deliberate statement on election night suggesting foul play. That was calculated on the part of him and his team.

This was always going to be an unusual election due to mail in voting being huge in Covid. But I imagine if they'd counted mail ins FIRST in Michigan, PA and Georgia then Trump's attitude right now would be much different.

We had 2 million more votes in Texas without all of the burden of additional mail in votes. They are always more dangerous and when we arrest people for voter fraud it's almost always vote harvesting of mail in votes.

And yes, count the mail in votes early. I know in my local elections here the first dump if votes is absentee, most mail in and early votes.

by Ben Reilly Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:21 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Watching the press conferences between Trump and Biden, it is absolutely clear that even though neither are ideal candidates, one is a divisive petulant cry baby and the other, while tired and lame, is at least going to work to bring the country together and bring a level of maturity back to US politics.

It will be a fucking breath of fresh air if nothing else.

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

It's not like anybody prevented counting the votes that were received before Election Day until Election Day, right?

Or did they?

by Ben Reilly Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:24 pm

I would have run the conspiracy to steal the election from Trump much better, I think. I wouldn't have had Biden way out ahead in the polls and then make the election results much, much closer. I'd have just made Biden win by 8-10 points, and most people would have believed it.

by Maddog Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:31 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

It's not like anybody prevented counting the votes that were received before Election Day until Election Day, right?

Or did they?

Yeah, there is always plenty of blame to go around with this horseshit.

But the biggest problems are in the bluest counties.

Trump supporters are not unaware of that.

by Ben Reilly Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:43 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah. Trump has issues. I'm cool with Biden being president with a Republican Senate.

But this election is a disaster. It's like we are a Banana Republic. Trump supporters are never going to accept this loss. Not the way it's going down. Watching Trumps lead dwindle to nothing in a half dozen states looks crooked as shit, even if it isn't.

There is more to an election than counting votes. Folks need to have faith in the process.

It's not like anybody prevented counting the votes that were received before Election Day until Election Day, right?

Or did they?

Yeah, there is always plenty of blame to go around with this horseshit.

But the biggest problems are in the bluest counties.

Trump supporters are not unaware of that.

There are no credible instances of widespread or systemic fraud. Trump investigated that last time, if you recall, hoping to find more than three million people who illegally voted for Hillary Clinton.

He found a few instances of improper votes, about half of which were for him and nearly all of which were understandable mistakes.

by Eilzel Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:50 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I would have run the conspiracy to steal the election from Trump much better, I think. I wouldn't have had Biden way out ahead in the polls and then make the election results much, much closer. I'd have just made Biden win by 8-10 points, and most people would have believed it.

Yep, would have been sure to steal the senate too, big oversight to forget that in their plans lol

by Maddog Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:56 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah, there is always plenty of blame to go around with this horseshit.

But the biggest problems are in the bluest counties.

Trump supporters are not unaware of that.

There are no credible instances of widespread or systemic fraud. Trump investigated that last time, if you recall, hoping to find more than three million people who illegally voted for Hillary Clinton.

He found a few instances of improper votes, about half of which were for him and nearly all of which were understandable mistakes.

There isn't widespread fraud, but there is fraud. Especially vote harvesting which is only possible with mail in ballots. I would say it doesnt effect elections, except that it must in some very tight races, or people wouldn't do it.

None of that changes the fact that the whole world is waiting for a handful of very blue counties to get done counting.

This is much like 2000. Florida didn't have election problems. Three counties did. That's where the counts and recounts and more recounts and law suits and counter suits and all of the bullshit were focused on.

by Tommy Monk Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:27 pm

We have problems here in UK in certain places with voting fraud... And overwhelmingly it is postal votes...

by Didgee Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didgee wrote:

Hence not fake choices, because the choice a person makes in an election is real to them and not fake

Hence you do not get to decide what is real or fake based on your beliefs, do you?

The right choice, is the choice the individual chooses, not what some Californian narcissist decides

Quill had a least 3 choices on his ballot. Probably 4.

Unless he voted in the Pacific States of America election.

Indeed, but those blind will always follow and never allow themselves to think independently

That is the left on here

Both me and you think Trump is a twat

We also think Biden is a male predator, just as trump is

What a sad choice the Us has today, because both are simple front men for a bigger plan that people have behind the scenes

My prediction is Kamilla Harris will take over within the year,. As Bidden will step down

Then the shit will really hit the fan

I welcome a female president, but not a female who is a puppet to the wills of men that control social media

by Didgee Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah, there is always plenty of blame to go around with this horseshit.

But the biggest problems are in the bluest counties.

Trump supporters are not unaware of that.

There are no credible instances of widespread or systemic fraud. Trump investigated that last time, if you recall, hoping to find more than three million people who illegally voted for Hillary Clinton.

He found a few instances of improper votes, about half of which were for him and nearly all of which were understandable mistakes.

Who cares?

You live in England and your life is now Eddie and her family

Luckily you will not reap what you sow here

The US has already fallen into anarchy and there is little anyone can do to stem this from happenning

Russia and China have for years sowed the seeds of discontent and people failed to see who the real enemy was here

by Didgee Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didgee wrote:

Hence not fake choices, because the choice a person makes in an election is real to them and not fake

Hence you do not get to decide what is real or fake based on your beliefs, do you?

The right choice, is the choice the individual chooses, not what some Californian narcissist decides

Every vote is important to him or herself, the individual voter. But there is a difference between what matters to the individual, and what matters to the overall population. Individuals, by themselves, don’t elect anyone.

Statistically, a bimbo election box is one which can be anticipated to be ignored by most voters. It is included on the ballot to serve pc concerns--ie, that everyone gets an opportunity to be considered. But realistically, that candidate is not going to get much business.

It matters not how or who people vote for

This factoid you miss

The Russians and Chinese have achieved their aim

Now their is complete disharmony and distrust in the US

So no vote counted here

The two most authoritarian nations in the world now hold sway and can control people through the sowing the seeds of doubts between Americans

Yet we are yet to see their end game

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Who will win?