Documents reveal Toronto police monitored the Black Lives Matter movement

Protesters chant out front of the Toronto Police headquarters in Toronto on Monday, March 21, 2016. Black Lives Matter protesters set up in front of Toronto Police headquarters after Ontario's Special Investigations Unit cleared a Toronto police officer of any wrongdoing in the shooting death of 45-year-old Andrew Loku. (Cole Burston/Canadian Press)

Toronto police monitored Black Lives Matter activists and their supporters, combing through social media and compiling intelligence email reports on the activist group as it camped outside police headquarters in 2016, according to documents obtained by CBC Toronto.

The documents, released by the Toronto Police Service (TPS) in response to a freedom of information request, show officers in the police service's intelligence branch monitored the group's demonstrations, public comments and planned events.

"Black activists, particularly, are targeted and surveilled," said Black Lives Matter Toronto co-founder Pascale Diverlus.

"We know that this happens. The targeting and surveillance of our communities is not new."

Black Lives Matter began an encampment outside police headquarters after a demonstration on March 20, 2016. The demonstration was sparked in part by the Special Investigations Unit's decisionto clear a Toronto police officer of wrongdoing in the fatal 2015 shooting of Andrew Loku.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-monitored-black-lives-matter-toronto-protesters-in-2016-documents-show-1.4645628

Do police really think that monitoring certain groups sends any message besides "we find you suspicious?"

Of course it gives out the impression that they are looked upon as “suspicious”. So what, though? A lot of activists within movements are watched. It happened to members of UKIP and the BNP, too.

It just makes sense.

eddie wrote:Of course it gives out the impression that they are looked upon as “suspicious”.  So what, though? A lot of activists within movements are watched. It happened to members of UKIP and the BNP, too.

It just makes sense.

I wonder. Canada is in-between British and American. We know American police are politically motivated--they never think to keep after the KKK or white nationalist groups, yet always with the blacks--but from what you say (UKIP and BNP) there is less political bias in the UK.

Also, reading this, I didn't know Canada had a FOIA law??

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Of course it gives out the impression that they are looked upon as “suspicious”.  So what, though? A lot of activists within movements are watched. It happened to members of UKIP and the BNP, too.

It just makes sense.

I wonder.  Canada is in-between British and American.  We know American police are politically motivated--they never think to keep after the KKK or white nationalist groups, yet always with the blacks--but from what you say (UKIP and BNP) there is less political bias in the UK.

Also, reading this, I didn't know Canada had a FOIA law??

Are they politically motivated?

How do you think the Police arrest and prosecute white nationalists and KKK, that commit crimes?

The fact is, that Black lives matter is essentially a racist organisation. Which certainly does have extremists within the organisation

As all lives matter and more whites are actually shot by the Police. Hardly any asians are, because hardly any compared to whites and blacks, are involved in violent crimes.

You want to cure these problems of crime. Then you tackle relative poverty

Didge wrote:How do you think the Police arrest and prosecute white nationalists and KKK, that commit crimes?

They don't.  You put the hammer square on the nailhead.  Take a look at the Cliven Bundy story.  Police, state and feds, wouldn't touch him, precisely because his cause was popular.  If that ain't political, nothing is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/?utm_term=.36667e1678d8

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:How do you think the Police arrest and prosecute white nationalists and KKK, that commit crimes?

They don't.  You put the hammer square on the nailhead.  Take a look at the Cliven Bundy story.  Police, state and feds, wouldn't touch him, precisely because his cause was popular.  If that ain't political, nothing is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/?utm_term=.36667e1678d8

So one case is your evidence, for the entire different Police forces within the US?

Seriously?

Didge wrote:The fact is, that Black lives matter is essentially a racist organisation. Which certainly does have extremists within the organisation

Sorry didge. You're the abject racist. Like others, you deliberately fail to acknowledge the serious genocide carried on by American police departments upon young black men.

It is akin to those who deny, or fail to recognize the holocaust. You would think, due to the similarities, you could sympathize with blacks. Instead, you join with the racists. Shame! It's your blackest hour.

I hardly think you can call didge a racist.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:The fact is, that Black lives matter is essentially a racist organisation. Which certainly does have extremists within the organisation

Sorry didge.  You're the abject racist.  Like others, you deliberately fail to acknowledge the serious genocide carried on by American police departments upon young black men.

It is akin to those who deny, or fail to recognize the holocaust.  You would think, due to the similarities, you could sympathize with blacks.  Instead, you join with the racists.  Shame!  It's your blackest hour.

Okay, you claim I am racist?

Many people are shot by the Police, mainly those classed as white and black

Many cops are also killed in the line of duty

This is what is called an circular problem

More cops are killed by black criminals in the acts of violence

More whites are killed in the acts of criminality by the Police

Percentage wise Blacks are killed more often wise based on the number of black people in the US

What this negates, is that percentage wise, more blacks are involved in crimes than whites per population. Even though whites commit more crimes per say

You then invoke what i can only describe as idiotic and fucking ignorant, to claim genocide, which makes a fucking mockery of where there has been real genocide. Showing again, that negativity and dispair rules your reasoning

Now a very simple question

Do you believe people defined as black, matter more than whites when it comes to the basic fundemental right all humans have world wide. The right to life?

Hence why, blacks lives matters, is racist, not matter whatever context, because nobody riots, even though far more whites are shot and killed by the Police. The reality is that the US has a circular problem. Many Blacks are involved in more violent crime and Police killings and yet even so, more whites are shot by the Police. What is even ignored is the millions upon millions of arrests carried out, that never see a shot fired in anger.

What we then have, is where some black criminals have been shot. The onus is proclaimed straight away, that such a shooting has to be racist, without any evidence. Ignoring the very factors that leads to such shootings. The gun culture, high violent crime rates and Police videos, that have an emphasis on Police officers being gunned down

The black lives matters, ignores the one group, who more than anyone else is disproportionately shot by the Police more than anyone else.

Those with mental health issues. This proves, that such claims of racism, are unfounded. They will be rare cases, where it is racism, but generally leftist idiots suffering from white guilt. Are only able to essentially shout racism, at only ever shootings that involve the victim being black.

The fact you invoke the holocasut and then make a mockery of the word genocide, shows its idiots like you that like i say, ensure racial hatred continues, By trying to invoke the worst anger, though lies.

That essentially makes you the worst kind of idiot

eddie wrote:I hardly think you can call didge a racist.

I do, and all too often. In fact, I've called him out for being a hypocrite racist. Swear to god, he picks his causes. He's all warm and fuzzy on Israel, and the holocaust, but then turns around and claims that racism isn't a thing in the US. He's even claimed that slavery didn't happen. And he's constantly defending white nationalists in the US...check out his position on the Charlottesville thread.

But specifically, look at his stand on black lives matter...is that not like the same situation as denying the holocaust? 'He's saying it didn't happen! There is no genocide of black males by American police, fgs!' That's by definition a racist, a bigot and a xenophobe. I'm sorry eds, he stamped his ticket long ago with that one.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:I hardly think you can call didge a racist.

I do, and all too often.  In fact, I've called him out for being a hypocrite racist.  Swear to god, he picks his causes.  He's all warm and fuzzy on Israel, and the holocaust, but then turns around and claims that racism isn't a thing in the US.  He's even claimed that slavery didn't happen.  And he's constantly defending white nationalists in the US...check out his position on the Charlottesville thread.

But specifically, look at his stand on black lives matter...is that not like the same situation as denying the holocaust?  'He's saying it didn't happen!  There is no genocide of black males by American police, fgs!'  That's by definition a racist, a bigot and a xenophobe.  I'm sorry eds, he stamped his ticket long ago with that one.

Fuzzy on Israel and the Holocaust?

What on earth does that mean?

If you single out Israel, as a people and nation, that is essentually racist.

Or at the very least xenophobic?

If your beef is with the Israeli governement or certain groups, that is different, but as seen your beef is with Israel as a nation.

And you call me a racist?

Never claimed there was no racism in the US. What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case. That is sheer ignorance to believe so. I do not rule out the possibility of racism, but you by de facto, claim it always is.

Again I will ask

What is the fundemenatlly right, all humans have?

Millions of children die world wide each year.

So, based on your reasonining, do the young or the elderly matter?

Or do all human lives matter?

More people with mental health end up commiting suicide

Do only people with mental health issues matter, or all Lives matter, when it comes to suicide?

More white males are by far homeless in this country?

Do only white males matter when it comes to the Homeless, or all lives matter when homeless?

Take as long as you like to compute that information and understand, how essentially, its people like yourself, that help ensure that racism continues.

There is nothing wrong with groups that tackle problems singular on specfic types of racism, but a group that claims only black lives matter, is essentially racist in thinking. As many people are gunned down by the Police each year, no matter whether black or white.

You're a racist prick.  

Didge wrote:What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case.

And what would you have said about German police treatment of Jews during the holocaust? Don't tell me...you would have approved. You're not a person with a mind of his own...you wait for 70-years, until history judges, and they you're breathless with rage.

You don't have a mind of your own, didge. You have a herd mentality.

This debate seems to hinge on the question of whether or not it's racist to say that something isn't racist.

Didge and Quill both indulge in this. Didge says that Tommy is racist for questioning the motive for the killing of Stephen Lawrence, and Quill appears to be saying that Didge is racist for not always agreeing that black people are shot by police for reasons other than racism. You're both saying the same thing so I don't know why you're arguing about it.

Raggamuffin wrote:This debate seems to hinge on the question of whether or not it's racist to say that something isn't racist.

Didge and Quill both indulge in this. Didge says that Tommy is racist for questioning the motive for the killing of Stephen Lawrence, and Quill appears to be saying that Didge is racist for not always agreeing that black people are shot by police for reasons other than racism. You're both saying the same thing so I don't know why you're arguing about it.

Really, you think where Tommy claims a Black person is a wrongun, simple because they are black. Basedon the hearsay views of racists that live in Eltham? Not any actual evidence, but claims made because Stephen was black?

You think that is the same thing do you, as Quill is saying about me?

wow

Original Quill wrote:You're a racist prick.  

Didge wrote:What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case.

And what would you have said about German police treatment of Jews during the holocaust?  Don't tell me...you would have approved.  You're not a person with a mind of his own...you wait for 70-years, until history judges, and they you're breathless with rage.

You don't have a mind of your own, didge.  You have a herd mentality.

So again you compare the treatment of Jews in the holocasut to some people gunned down by the Police and then only when the victim is black?

wow, what an idiot and even more insulting to all the victims of the Holocaust

So again

Fuzzy on Israel and the Holocaust?

What on earth does that mean?

If you single out Israel, as a people and nation, that is essentually racist.

Or at the very least xenophobic?

If your beef is with the Israeli governement or certain groups, that is different, but as seen your beef is with Israel as a nation.

And you call me a racist?

Never claimed there was no racism in the US. What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case. That is sheer ignorance to believe so. I do not rule out the possibility of racism, but you by de facto, claim it always is.

Again I will ask

What is the fundemenatlly right, all humans have?

Millions of children die world wide each year.

So, based on your reasonining, do the young or the elderly matter?

Or do all human lives matter?

More people with mental health end up commiting suicide

Do only people with mental health issues matter, or all Lives matter, when it comes to suicide?

More white males are by far homeless in this country?

Do only white males matter when it comes to the Homeless, or all lives matter when homeless?

Take as long as you like to compute that information and understand, how essentially, its people like yourself, that help ensure that racism continues.

There is nothing wrong with groups that tackle problems singular on specfic types of racism, but a group that claims only black lives matter, is essentially racist in thinking. As many people are gunned down by the Police each year, no matter whether black or white.

Didge wrote:So again you compare the treatment of Jews in the holocasut to some people gunned down by the Police and then only when the victim is black?

So again, you insult black people by minimizing the genocide of them by American policemen, while lamenting the Jews for enduring, admittedly, the same treatment some 70-years ago.

Your support for Jews is commendable; your support for the genocide of blacks is racist and brands you as a sympathizer of evil.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:So again you compare the treatment of Jews in the holocasut to some people gunned down by the Police and then only when the victim is black?

So again, you insult black people by minimizing the genocide of them by American policemen, while lamenting the Jews for enduring, admittedly, the same treatment some 70-years ago.

Your support for Jews is commendable; your support for the genocide of blacks is racist and brands you as a sympathizer of evil.

So you think, the killing only of blacks and not any ethnic group, in shootings by Police is genocide?

Seriously, are you retarded and fucking stupid?

Because that must be the only explanation to make such a dumb and fuckwitted claim

Show me how Police shootings is now genocide against Blacks?

How is it not the same when many more white people are shot?

Now answer bthe questions

So again

Fuzzy on Israel and the Holocaust?

What on earth does that mean?

If you single out Israel, as a people and nation, that is essentually racist.

Or at the very least xenophobic?

If your beef is with the Israeli governement or certain groups, that is different, but as seen your beef is with Israel as a nation.

And you call me a racist?

Never claimed there was no racism in the US. What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case. That is sheer ignorance to believe so. I do not rule out the possibility of racism, but you by de facto, claim it always is.

Again I will ask

What is the fundemenatlly right, all humans have?

Millions of children die world wide each year.

So, based on your reasonining, do the young or the elderly matter?

Or do all human lives matter?

More people with mental health end up commiting suicide

Do only people with mental health issues matter, or all Lives matter, when it comes to suicide?

More white males are by far homeless in this country?

Do only white males matter when it comes to the Homeless, or all lives matter when homeless?

Take as long as you like to compute that information and understand, how essentially, its people like yourself, that help ensure that racism continues.

There is nothing wrong with groups that tackle problems singular on specfic types of racism, but a group that claims only black lives matter, is essentially racist in thinking. As many people are gunned down by the Police each year, no matter whether black or white.

Didge wrote:So you think, the killing only of blacks and not any ethnic group, in shootings by Police is genocide?

Didge, you're trying to obscure the crime, by flooding the docket.  It's like, Sure, there's all this war, torture and rape...but we've got trade deficits and the price of bananas to worry about!

Didge wrote:Seriously, are you retarded and fucking stupid?

When did you stop beating your wife?  

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:So you think, the killing only of blacks and not any ethnic group, in shootings by Police is genocide?

Didge, you're trying to obscure the crime, by flooding the docket.  It's like, Sure, there's all this war, torture and rape...but we've got trade deficits and the price of bananas to worry about!

Didge wrote:Seriously, are you retarded and fucking stupid?

When did you stop beating your wife?  

So now you further divert with more lies and bullshit

You have never been a judge have you mate

My points again which you refuse to answer

So you think, the killing only of blacks and not any ethnic group, in shootings by Police is genocide?

Seriously, are you retarded and fucking stupid?

Because that must be the only explanation to make such a dumb and fuckwitted claim

Show me how Police shootings is now genocide against Blacks?

How is it not the same when many more white people are shot?

Now answer bthe questions

So again

Fuzzy on Israel and the Holocaust?

What on earth does that mean?

If you single out Israel, as a people and nation, that is essentually racist.

Or at the very least xenophobic?

If your beef is with the Israeli governement or certain groups, that is different, but as seen your beef is with Israel as a nation.

And you call me a racist?

Never claimed there was no racism in the US. What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case. That is sheer ignorance to believe so. I do not rule out the possibility of racism, but you by de facto, claim it always is.

Again I will ask

What is the fundemenatlly right, all humans have?

Millions of children die world wide each year.

So, based on your reasonining, do the young or the elderly matter?

Or do all human lives matter?

More people with mental health end up commiting suicide

Do only people with mental health issues matter, or all Lives matter, when it comes to suicide?

More white males are by far homeless in this country?

Do only white males matter when it comes to the Homeless, or all lives matter when homeless?

Take as long as you like to compute that information and understand, how essentially, its people like yourself, that help ensure that racism continues.

There is nothing wrong with groups that tackle problems singular on specfic types of racism, but a group that claims only black lives matter, is essentially racist in thinking. As many people are gunned down by the Police each year, no matter whether black or white.

_________________

You are unusually energetic this day. You can't decide whether to insult someone, or drift off subject.

Anyway...you're boring me. ta...

All political groups outside the mainstream ones should assume they are being monitored. It's a given. There are special govt departments dedicated full time to monitoring them, to safeguard national security.

There is always a suspicion that some of these political groups are being funded by individual billionaires with agendas. Or worse, by alien hostile forces like Russia. The historic paranoia about commies, etc, still prevails.

Such as Soros, [if that's his name]?

Original Quill wrote:You are unusually energetic this day.  You can't decide whether to insult someone, or drift off subject.

Anyway...you're boring me.  ta...

I am glad I am bothering you, as yiou are no better than racist idiots

Still waiting for you to answer

So now you further divert with more lies and bullshit

You have never been a judge have you mate

My points again which you refuse to answer

So you think, the killing only of blacks and not any ethnic group, in shootings by Police is genocide?

Seriously, are you retarded and fucking stupid?

Because that must be the only explanation to make such a dumb and fuckwitted claim

Show me how Police shootings is now genocide against Blacks?

How is it not the same when many more white people are shot?

Now answer bthe questions

So again

Fuzzy on Israel and the Holocaust?

What on earth does that mean?

If you single out Israel, as a people and nation, that is essentually racist.

Or at the very least xenophobic?

If your beef is with the Israeli governement or certain groups, that is different, but as seen your beef is with Israel as a nation.

And you call me a racist?

Never claimed there was no racism in the US. What I have talked about is how the left seem to think any black person gunned down by the Police is based on racism alone and nothing else. In every single case. That is sheer ignorance to believe so. I do not rule out the possibility of racism, but you by de facto, claim it always is.

Again I will ask

What is the fundemenatlly right, all humans have?

Millions of children die world wide each year.

So, based on your reasonining, do the young or the elderly matter?

Or do all human lives matter?

More people with mental health end up commiting suicide

Do only people with mental health issues matter, or all Lives matter, when it comes to suicide?

More white males are by far homeless in this country?

Do only white males matter when it comes to the Homeless, or all lives matter when homeless?

Take as long as you like to compute that information and understand, how essentially, its people like yourself, that help ensure that racism continues.

There is nothing wrong with groups that tackle problems singular on specfic types of racism, but a group that claims only black lives matter, is essentially racist in thinking. As many people are gunned down by the Police each year, no matter whether black or white.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:This debate seems to hinge on the question of whether or not it's racist to say that something isn't racist.

Didge and Quill both indulge in this. Didge says that Tommy is racist for questioning the motive for the killing of Stephen Lawrence, and Quill appears to be saying that Didge is racist for not always agreeing that black people are shot by police for reasons other than racism. You're both saying the same thing so I don't know why you're arguing about it.

Really, you think where Tommy claims a Black person is a wrongun, simple because they are black. Basedon the hearsay views of racists that live in Eltham? Not any actual evidence, but claims made because Stephen was black?

You think that is the same thing do you, as Quill is saying about me?

wow

Where did Tommy say that?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Really, you think where Tommy claims a Black person is a wrongun, simple because they are black. Basedon the hearsay views of racists that live in Eltham? Not any actual evidence, but claims made because Stephen was black?

You think that is the same thing do you, as Quill is saying about me?

wow

Where did Tommy say that?

Tommy has made this view plenty of times, when we have debated this subject

Be my guest and even ask him, what he thinks

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Where did Tommy say that?

Tommy has made this view plenty of times, when we have debated this subject

Be my guest and even ask him, what he thinks

You made the claim, so you should back it up.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Tommy has made this view plenty of times, when we have debated this subject

Be my guest and even ask him, what he thinks

You made the claim, so you should back it up.

I have no need to prove this to you Rags

If you do not believe, that is up to you, but it certainly shows your comparrison was idiotic at best.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You made the claim, so you should back it up.

I have no need to prove this to you Rags

If you do not believe, that is up to you, but it certainly shows your comparrison was idiotic at best.

You can't back it up then. My comparison still stands and it's valid.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


I have no need to prove this to you Rags

If you do not believe, that is up to you, but it certainly shows your comparrison was idiotic at best.

You can't back it up then. My comparison still stands and it's valid.

Go and ask him, if you do not believe me

Quite simple really and not bothered that you do not believe me

Tommy has asked where the evidence is that the attack on Stephen Lawrence was racially motivated. There's nothing racist about the question.

Raggamuffin wrote:Tommy has asked where the evidence is that the attack on Stephen Lawrence was racially motivated. There's nothing racist about the question.

There is every indication his motivation is racist, when the known killers have a blatant history of racism

Ask yourself, why would he try to deny that they are racist or that the murder was racially motivated, if not to defend the murderers?

He is simple echoing what other racists are doing

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6085615/stephen-lawrence-murder-bnp-activists-defend-killers-eltham/

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Tommy has asked where the evidence is that the attack on Stephen Lawrence was racially motivated. There's nothing racist about the question.

There is every indication his motivation is racist, when the known killers have a blatant history of racism

Ask yourself, why would he try to deny that they are racist or that the murder was racially motivated, if not to defend the murderers?

He is simple echoing what other racists are doing

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6085615/stephen-lawrence-murder-bnp-activists-defend-killers-eltham/

I don't agree. He might think that there was another motive for the murder - that doesn't make him racist, and it doesn't mean he's accusing Stephen of anything. Perhaps Stephen knew his killers. I have wondered that myself.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

There is every indication his motivation is racist, when the known killers have a blatant history of racism

Ask yourself, why would he try to deny that they are racist or that the murder was racially motivated, if not to defend the murderers?

He is simple echoing what other racists are doing

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6085615/stephen-lawrence-murder-bnp-activists-defend-killers-eltham/

I don't agree. He might think that there was another motive for the murder - that doesn't make him racist, and it doesn't mean he's accusing Stephen of anything. Perhaps Stephen knew his killers. I have wondered that myself.

You can disagree all you like, but what Tommy has made in views on this, easily proves he is racially motivated to defend the killers.

He has accused Stephen of being a wrongun.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't agree. He might think that there was another motive for the murder - that doesn't make him racist, and it doesn't mean he's accusing Stephen of anything. Perhaps Stephen knew his killers. I have wondered that myself.

You can disagree all you like, but what Tommy has made in views on this, easily proves he is racially motivated to defend the killers.

He has accused Stephen of being a wrongun.

Even if he has, that doesn't mean that he's saying it's because he's black. Nobody seemed to consider the idea that Stephen might have known them, or encountered them before. I always thought it was a bit weird that they randomly ran across the road to stab someone for being black.

I think that Tommy is also questioning the assumption that the five named youths/men were the actual perpetrators. That was assumed right from the start.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

You can disagree all you like, but what Tommy has made in views on this, easily proves he is racially motivated to defend the killers.

He has accused Stephen of being a wrongun.

Even if he has, that doesn't mean that he's saying it's because he's black. Nobody seemed to consider the idea that Stephen might have known them, or encountered them before. I always thought it was a bit weird that they randomly ran across the road to stab someone for being black.

I think that Tommy is also questioning the assumption that the five named youths/men were the actually perpetrators. That was assumed right from the start.

Really, you dont think it has anything to do with him being black and how I know growing up in South London. Knowing racists had such a view of blacks, as wronguns?

What does it matter whether or not if he did know them?

They were known racists and they murdered him.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Even if he has, that doesn't mean that he's saying it's because he's black. Nobody seemed to consider the idea that Stephen might have known them, or encountered them before. I always thought it was a bit weird that they randomly ran across the road to stab someone for being black.

I think that Tommy is also questioning the assumption that the five named youths/men were the actually perpetrators. That was assumed right from the start.

Really, you dont think it has anything to do with him being black and how I know growing up in South London. Knowing racists had such a view of blacks, as wronguns?

What does it matter whether or not if he did know them?

They were known racists and they murdered him.

Clearly, if he did know them, there might be another motive for the murder other than him being black. That's obvious.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Really, you dont think it has anything to do with him being black and how I know growing up in South London. Knowing racists had such a view of blacks, as wronguns?

What does it matter whether or not if he did know them?

They were known racists and they murdered him.

Clearly, if he did know them, there might be another motive for the murder other than him being black. That's obvious.

Of course rags, it had nothing to do with racism, for fuck sake

Holy crap on a cracker

One thing to easily dismiss the dumb claim by Rags, is why did not Duwayne Brooks claim Stephen knew them, when the murderers never called him by his name? Duwayne Brooks did not claim to know them either.

Hence why I have no time for such fuckwittery

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Clearly, if he did know them, there might be another motive for the murder other than him being black. That's obvious.

Of course rags, it had nothing to do with racism, for fuck sake

Holy crap on a cracker

That's what Tommy is questioning, and that doesn't make him racist for questioning the motive.

Didge wrote:One thing to easily dismiss the dumb claim by Rags, is why did not Duwayne Brooks claim Stephen knew them, when the murderers never called him by his name? Duwayne Brooks did not claim to know them either.

Hence why I have no time for such fuckwittery

I haven't made any claims. However, Duwayne didn't necessarily know the same people that Stephen knew.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Of course rags, it had nothing to do with racism, for fuck sake

Holy crap on a cracker

That's what Tommy is questioning, and that doesn't make him racist for questioning the motive.

You can defend a racist all you like and you remind me of known racist idiots that I grew up with in South London

Tommy can question all he likes and you do not even question his motivation for doing so

Your claim, is easily dismissed by Duwayne Brooks, on Stephen knowing his killers and yet you persist with such dumb reasoning

Frankly, this clearly confirms to me what an idiot you really are Rags

Tommy is racially motivated to defend his killers and like I say claimed Stephen was a wrongon

I dont care if you dont believe me, but you are empahtically an idiot to not see how Tommy is racially motivated against Stephen Lawrence

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:One thing to easily dismiss the dumb claim by Rags, is why did not Duwayne Brooks claim Stephen knew them, when the murderers never called him by his name? Duwayne Brooks did not claim to know them either.

Hence why I have no time for such fuckwittery

I haven't made any claims. However, Duwayne didn't necessarily know the same people that Stephen knew.

So there is zero evidence for your dumb claim, even when its known his killers were a gang and emphatically racist

You seriously are an idiot

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

That's what Tommy is questioning, and that doesn't make him racist for questioning the motive.

You can defend a racist all you like and you remind me of known racist idiots that I grew up with in South London

Tommy can question all he likes and you do not even question his motivation for doing so

Your claim, is easily dismissed by Duwayne Brooks, on Stephen knowing his killers and yet you persist with such dumb reasoning

Frankly, this clearly confirms to me what an idiot you really are Rags

Tommy is racially motivated to defend his killers and like I say claimed Stephen was a wrongon

I dont care if you dont believe me, but you are empahtically an idiot to not see how Tommy is racially motivated against Stephen Lawrence

You have no evidence that Stephen didn't know the killers. In fact, it was mentioned that Duwayne and Stephen might have seen those boys earlier. Also, don't forget that Duwayne's evidence was dismissed as unreliable - that's why the trial collapsed.

You're the idiot for accepting what others say without questioning it.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:



I haven't made any claims. However, Duwayne didn't necessarily know the same people that Stephen knew.

So there is zero evidence for your dumb claim, even when its known his killers were a gang and emphatically racist

You seriously are an idiot

What claim? There was a gang of course, but how do you know that Acourt, etc, was one of them at the time? How do you know they were racist? Do you think there was only one "gang" in that area?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

You can defend a racist all you like and you remind me of known racist idiots that I grew up with in South London

Tommy can question all he likes and you do not even question his motivation for doing so

Your claim, is easily dismissed by Duwayne Brooks, on Stephen knowing his killers and yet you persist with such dumb reasoning

Frankly, this clearly confirms to me what an idiot you really are Rags

Tommy is racially motivated to defend his killers and like I say claimed Stephen was a wrongon

I dont care if you dont believe me, but you are empahtically an idiot to not see how Tommy is racially motivated against Stephen Lawrence

You have no evidence that Stephen didn't know the killers. In fact, it was mentioned that Duwayne and Stephen might have seen those boys earlier. Also, don't forget that Duwayne's evidence was dismissed as unreliable - that's why the trial collapsed.

You're the idiot for accepting what others say without questioning it.

OMG, is pointless debating a retard

As if there is no evidence he knew, them, then its irrelevant on whether he knew them or not, when its known the motive for the murder

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

So there is zero evidence for your dumb claim, even when its known his killers were a gang and emphatically racist

You seriously are an idiot

What claim? There was a gang of course, but how do you know that Acourt, etc, was one of them at the time? How do you know they were racist? Do you think there was only one "gang" in that area?

wow and reven more retarded, when two people have been convicted of his murder

Are you claiming they are innocent and it was now some other racist gang

Seriously jog on you idiot

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You have no evidence that Stephen didn't know the killers. In fact, it was mentioned that Duwayne and Stephen might have seen those boys earlier. Also, don't forget that Duwayne's evidence was dismissed as unreliable - that's why the trial collapsed.

You're the idiot for accepting what others say without questioning it.

OMG, is pointless debating a retard

As if there is no evidence he knew, them, then its irrelevant on whether he knew them or not, when its known the motive for the murder

You calling someone else a "retard" is laughable. You're so slow you're going backwards.

Of course it's relevant if he knew them or not. That could change the motive, even though it wouldn't change the fact that it was murder. The motive is not known, it's just assumed.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What claim? There was a gang of course, but how do you know that Acourt, etc, was one of them at the time? How do you know they were racist? Do you think there was only one "gang" in that area?

wow and reven more retarded, when two people have been convicted of his murder

Are you claiming they are innocent and it was now some other racist gang

Seriously jog on you idiot

How do you know the rest of the gang comprised the Acourts and Knight? Dobson probably knew other people, and there were many white youths in the area.

Do you not remember that a "gang" from another area (Thamesmead I think) was around that night, driving past the scene?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


OMG, is pointless debating a retard

As if there is no evidence he knew, them, then its irrelevant on whether he knew them or not, when its known the motive for the murder

You calling someone else a "retard" is laughable. You're so slow you're going backwards.

Of course it's relevant if he knew them or not. That could change the motive, even though it wouldn't change the fact that it was murder. The motive is not known, it's just assumed.

So still no evidence and basically claiming that the conviction was wrong

wow

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You calling someone else a "retard" is laughable. You're so slow you're going backwards.

Of course it's relevant if he knew them or not. That could change the motive, even though it wouldn't change the fact that it was murder. The motive is not known, it's just assumed.

So still no evidence and basically claiming that the conviction was wrong

wow

I didn't say the conviction was wrong - can you point to the post where I said that?