Manufacturing the new blue British passports contract will be given to..... the French.

Well that's a good start.  

"HOME Office chiefs were last night accused of “a national humiliation” after deciding FRANCE will make Britain’s new blue passports.
British company De La Rue is to be stripped of its long-standing contract to produce the nation’s new identity documents
Instead, the lucrative business will be handed over to French firm Gemalto, The Sun can reveal.
The security giant have won the tender to make the iconic items from 2019, in a deal worth £490million..

De La Rue produced its first passport for the UK Government in 1915, and hundreds of job losses are now feared.
The decision sparked uproar among Tory MPs last night, who called on the Home Secretary to step in.
Former Cabinet minister Priti Patel dubbed it “a disgraceful decision” and “perverse”.
The prominent Brexit campaigner added: “This should be a moment that we should be celebrating. The return of our iconic blue passport will re-establish the British identity. “But to be putting the job in the hands of the French is simply astonishing. It is a national humiliation."

You couldn't make it up. Bloody stupid, what's wrong with making them here.

EU rules, must be offered to lowest bidder.

I am astouned but it seems pretty typical of decisions made in Britain these days, manufacture something in Britain of course not, give the work and the money to anyone except a British company.

British company De La Rue will make hundreds of workers redundant when the contract to make the new blue passports passes over to a French company.

The irony is the new passport is a symbol of the freedom the Brits will have when BREXIT finally happens....and the passports will not be put into use till then.

One of the reasons many people voted for brexit was because of the way EU workers were often offered contracts and jobs in the UK before the local workforce were.
How ridiculous that a huge contract worth 490 million pounds has been given to a foreign workforce, throwing our own workers out of work.

I totally agree Syl, so bloody idiotic.

magica wrote:I totally agree Syl, so bloody idiotic.

Many people will have seen the blue passport as some sort of symbol that we have untied ourselves from the rules of the EU....yet we will be paying them to produce the passport and throwing our own workers, who have done the job for over a decade....on the scrap heap.

I saw bringing back the blue passports as a joke.

"So guys, you can't travel freely around the EU now, we might have to pay more to trade with the EU, you can't just move to and work in the EU now but don't worry, you're passport will be changing back to the old colour! Good show chaps!"

The fact the contract for said passports is going to France just makes the joke that much bitterer. But the whole change was a BS token move anyway just to make Brexiteers feel like they'd actually achieved something with this disaster.

Besides, if the scaremongerers on the Remain side are right, this will be a sign of things to come post Brexit. So chin up, keep calm and carry on chaps. God save the Queen, Rule Britain and all that

Any Brit sneering about this is shooting themselves in the foot really.
The democratic vote favoured  leaving, so we are leaving.

At the time regarding the passports (which personally I think is a farce to change them....just to prove a point really) Theresa May said..."The UK passport is an expression of our independence  and sovereignty, symbolising our citizenship of a proud nation. That's why we have announced that the iconic blue passport will return after we leave the EU"
Way to go to turf Brit workers out of a job in favour of the French in order to make them.

Incidentally, the EU rule that contracts must be given to the best value bidder obviously doesn't apply to passports.
Both France and Germany ban foreign firms from making their passports on the grounds of national security.

If anyone is interested in keeping the manufacture of the British passports in Britain, the Mirror newspaper has started a petition for people to sign....its in the link directly below.

https://campaign.goingtowork.org.uk/petitions/we-demand-the-new-blue-uk-passport-is-made-in-britain-to-support-uk-jobs?source=mirror

"Stop the UK passport betrayal! Join the Mirror's campaign to keep making blue documents in Britain after Brexit"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/stop-uk-passport-betrayal-join-12235170

Syl wrote:Any Brit sneering about this is shooting themselves in the foot really.
The democratic vote favoured  leaving, so we are leaving.

At the time regarding the passports (which personally I think is a farce to change them....just to prove a point really) Theresa May said..."The UK passport is an expression of our independence  and sovereignty, symbolising our citizenship of a proud nation. That's why we have announced that the iconic blue passport will return after we leave the EU"
Way to go to turf Brit workers out of a job in favour of the French in order to make them.

Incidentally, the EU rule that contracts must be given to the best value bidder obviously doesn't apply to passports.
Both France and Germany ban foreign firms from making their passports on the grounds of national security.

That's because France and Germany aren't run by idiots (relatively speaking).

And sneering isn't shooting anyone in the foot. It changes nothing. I/we just happen to think voting Brexit is one of the stupidest decisions the British electorate made, so I'll sneer away at all the retarded BS that comes as a result lol

Eilzel wrote:I/we just happen to think voting Brexit is one of the stupidest decisions the British electorate made, so I'll sneer away at all the retarded BS that comes as a result lol

I'm not at all sure that the British electorate was involved in that decision. We are now hearing that Cambridge Analytica was involved in the Brexit referendum.

Eilzel, as you don't live or work here it wont affect you, I voted leave as I don't want unelected people to tell my country what to do. It's that simple 1

Well it will have to change, so why not change the colour back or will we keep the ones with EU on the top and stick a bit of tape or Tippex over the EU bit.

Eilzel wrote:I saw bringing back the blue passports as a joke.

"So guys, you can't travel freely around the EU now, we might have to pay more to trade with the EU, you can't just move to and work in the EU now but don't worry, you're passport will be changing back to the old colour! Good show chaps!"

The fact the contract for said passports is going to France just makes the joke that much bitterer. But the whole change was a BS token move anyway just to make Brexiteers feel like they'd actually achieved something with this disaster.

Besides, if the scaremongerers on the Remain side are right, this will be a sign of things to come post Brexit. So chin up, keep calm and carry on chaps. God save the Queen, Rule Britain and all that

Its because it will be 150 million cheaper than the UK

Makes sense to contract out

Either the Uk company has to provide a better costing or lose out

The rest of your post flies in the face of every piss poor prediction on Brexit

More people in employment

Industries doing well, as well as everything else

I wanted to remain, but now see most of the remain arguments are bullhist and none of their predictions have come to pass

You might want to see this

	Agree	Disagree
Total	57%	22%	21%
Male	55%	25%	20%
Female	59%	20%	22%
18-34	40%	29%	31%
35-54	53%	23%	24%
55+	71%	17%	12%
AB	53%	24%	23%
C1	50%	25%	24%
C2	61%	18%	20%
DE	68%	17%	15%
Con	78%	10%	12%
Lab	40%	36%	24%
LD	44%	34%	22%
UKIP	91%	3%	7%
Plaid Cymru	69%	19%	12%
SNP	36%	35%	29%
Greens	41%	34%	25%
East Midlands	53%	24%	23%
East of England	61%	18%	21%
London	49%	35%	17%
North East	62%	16%	22%
North West	62%	18%	20%
Scotland	44%	32%	24%
South East	58%	16%	26%
South West	61%	25%	13%
Wales	58%	22%	20%
West Midlands	63%	14%	23%
Yorkshire & The Humber	58%	21%	21%
Remain voters	31%	39%	29%

What were the poll questions?.
How many took part ?
What was the demographic and geographic breakdown?

Is is dead easy to rig a poll to give a result that you are looking for.

Angry Andy wrote:What were the poll questions?.
How many took part ?
What was the demographic and geographic breakdown?

Is is dead easy to  rig a poll to give a result that you are looking for.

Its main questions was to ignore Russian Bots called Andy



Give it a day or two and you will see this poll on here, its simple not been published yet

Guido, always has the know before it does

http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:Any Brit sneering about this is shooting themselves in the foot really.
The democratic vote favoured  leaving, so we are leaving.

At the time regarding the passports (which personally I think is a farce to change them....just to prove a point really) Theresa May said..."The UK passport is an expression of our independence  and sovereignty, symbolising our citizenship of a proud nation. That's why we have announced that the iconic blue passport will return after we leave the EU"
Way to go to turf Brit workers out of a job in favour of the French in order to make them.

Incidentally, the EU rule that contracts must be given to the best value bidder obviously doesn't apply to passports.
Both France and Germany ban foreign firms from making their passports on the grounds of national security.

That's because France and Germany aren't run by idiots (relatively speaking).

And sneering isn't shooting anyone in the foot. It changes nothing. I/we just happen to think voting Brexit is one of the stupidest decisions the British electorate made, so I'll sneer away at all the retarded BS that comes as a result lol

Sneer away.
You are as entitled to your opinion just as the BREXITS were entitled to theirs.

Will it be economically viable anyway to give the contract to France?
Hundreds of people flung into unemployment will be a big drain on the British economy.
And cheapest doesn't always mean best anyway.

Vintage wrote:Well it will have to change, so why not change the colour back or will we keep the ones with EU on the top and stick a bit of tape or Tippex over the EU bit.

All passports have an expiry, 10 years being the longest, why not just change them as and when?

Syl wrote:Will it be economically viable anyway to give the contract to France?
Hundreds of people flung into unemployment will be a big drain on the British economy.
And cheapest doesn't always mean best anyway.

Correction, 120 million pounds more so

It turns out the savings for the British taxpayer thanks to the Franco-Dutch passport deal are £120 million over five years, not £50 million, according to a government source. What would Remainers and protectionists cut just so the contract can go to an expensive British firm?

https://order-order.com/2018/03/22/french-passports-deal-will-save-120-million/

I very much doubt the UK company is going to need to lay off people, when, it may have created jobs

http://www.delarue.com/about-us


I would say minimal to no job loses

Correction for what?
The government have given France the contract because they are cheaper...and yes, the figure is £120 million.
The contract is worth 490 million over 5 years.


"General secretary Len McCluskey said: “Instead of taking back control, the Government is doing things on the cheap.

“At least 200 jobs are now at risk because the Tory Government thinks it is best to ask a French-based company to make UK passports."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/stop-uk-passport-betrayal-join-12235170

Syl wrote:Correction for what?
The government have given France the contract because they are cheaper...and yes, the figure is £120 million.
The contract is worth 490 million over 5 years.


"General secretary Len McCluskey said: “Instead of taking back control, the Government is doing things on the cheap.

“At least 200 jobs are now at risk because the Tory Government thinks it is best to ask a French-based company to make UK passports."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/stop-uk-passport-betrayal-join-12235170

Are they really at risk, or is this blackmail based off workers by this company?

Ask yourself, how many within this company are involved in passports within the UK?

Hint

I gave you a link to their website

I can also guarantee you, that the anglo company will snatch up most of the passport people, experts, for this contract, from this company. Which this company knows.

Nobody is going to lose out. The Dutch/French company needs experinced people from this company, as thies is expanding and will seek to gain them from the British one

We are going to save a 120 million

Its a no brainer to do.

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:Correction for what?
The government have given France the contract because they are cheaper...and yes, the figure is £120 million.
The contract is worth 490 million over 5 years.


"General secretary Len McCluskey said: “Instead of taking back control, the Government is doing things on the cheap.

“At least 200 jobs are now at risk because the Tory Government thinks it is best to ask a French-based company to make UK passports."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/stop-uk-passport-betrayal-join-12235170

Are they really at risk, or is this blackmail based off workers by this company?

Ask yourself, how many within this company are involved in passports within the UK?

Hint

I gave you a link to their website

I can also guarantee you, that the anglo company will snatch up most of the passport people, experts, for this contract, from this company. Which this company knows.

Nobody is going to lose out. The Dutch/French company needs experinced people from this company, as thies is expanding and will seek to gain them from the British one

We are going to save a 120 million

Its a no brainer to do.

Is it?
Giving contracts away to other countries when there is a British company that can and has done the work for over a decade is wrong....an agreement could have been met if De La Rue had had a chance to negotiate.

Cheapest is not always best, many Brit workers are made redundant in favour of cheaper EU workers, oftentimess its false economy.

Perhaps Teresa May is simply sweetening the EU in order to get a better deal, in which case, she is bargaining with British jobs....wrong..

And why do other EU countries insist their passports are made in their own country regardlesss of cost?

Syl wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Syl wrote:Any Brit sneering about this is shooting themselves in the foot really.
The democratic vote favoured  leaving, so we are leaving.

At the time regarding the passports (which personally I think is a farce to change them....just to prove a point really) Theresa May said..."The UK passport is an expression of our independence  and sovereignty, symbolising our citizenship of a proud nation. That's why we have announced that the iconic blue passport will return after we leave the EU"
Way to go to turf Brit workers out of a job in favour of the French in order to make them.

Incidentally, the EU rule that contracts must be given to the best value bidder obviously doesn't apply to passports.
Both France and Germany ban foreign firms from making their passports on the grounds of national security.

That's because France and Germany aren't run by idiots (relatively speaking).

And sneering isn't shooting anyone in the foot. It changes nothing. I/we just happen to think voting Brexit is one of the stupidest decisions the British electorate made, so I'll sneer away at all the retarded BS that comes as a result lol

Sneer away.  
You are as entitled to your opinion just as the BREXITS were entitled to theirs.  

I absolutely agree.

Only, Brexiteers don't have much to sneer at do they lol

As a Brit who wants to see his country do well, however, I sincerely hope they do get the chance to sneer away before too bloody long lol

The manufacture of UK passports is something that should be done by a civil service dept... not a contract that is up for tender by any private company... and definately not something that should be allowed to be done by any foreign company in a foreign country...!

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:

Are they really at risk, or is this blackmail based off workers by this company?

Ask yourself, how many within this company are involved in passports within the UK?

Hint

I gave you a link to their website

I can also guarantee you, that the anglo company will snatch up most of the passport people, experts, for this contract, from this company. Which this company knows.

Nobody is going to lose out. The Dutch/French company needs experinced people from this company, as thies is expanding and will seek to gain them from the British one

We are going to save a 120 million

Its a no brainer to do.

Is it?
Giving contracts away to other countries when there is a British company that can and has done the work for over a decade is wrong....an agreement could have been met if De La Rue had had a chance to negotiate.

Cheapest is not always best, many Brit workers are made redundant in favour of cheaper EU workers, oftentimess its false economy.

Perhaps Teresa May is simply sweetening the EU in order to get a better deal, in which case, she is bargaining with British jobs....wrong..

And why do other EU countries insist their passports are made in their own country regardlesss of cost?

What you should be asking is why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years?

That is a staggering amount of money and if they want the contract they have to meet what the other company is going to charge

I am sure that 120 million can go to money better spent in this country, than some passport

She is not barganing any jobs, that is the company blackmailing them

Do other EU countries insist?

How many and to be honest who cares

This is about being cost effective

If the British company cannot match, that, i would question, how greedy they truly are, considering France's minimum wage is over £10 an hour. It shows they have better wages. So clearly that is not the reason why the British company is charguing millions more.

That is what you should be questioning. The greed of the owners

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:

Are they really at risk, or is this blackmail based off workers by this company?

Ask yourself, how many within this company are involved in passports within the UK?

Hint

I gave you a link to their website

I can also guarantee you, that the anglo company will snatch up most of the passport people, experts, for this contract, from this company. Which this company knows.

Nobody is going to lose out. The Dutch/French company needs experinced people from this company, as thies is expanding and will seek to gain them from the British one

We are going to save a 120 million

Its a no brainer to do.

Is it?
Giving contracts away to other countries when there is a British company that can and has done the work for over a decade is wrong....an agreement could have been met if De La Rue had had a chance to negotiate.

Cheapest is not always best, many Brit workers are made redundant in favour of cheaper EU workers, oftentimess its false economy.

Perhaps Teresa May is simply sweetening the EU in order to get a better deal, in which case, she is bargaining with British jobs....wrong..

And why do other EU countries insist their passports are made in their own country regardlesss of cost?

What you should be asking is why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years?

That is a staggering amount of money and if they want the contract they have to meet what the other company is going to charge

I am sure that 120 million can go to money better spent in this country, than some passport

She is not barganing any jobs, that is the company blackmailing them

Do other EU countries insist?

How many and to be honest who cares

This is about being cost effective

If the British company cannot match, that, i would question, how greedy they truly are, considering France's minimum wage is over £10 an hour. It shows they have better wages. So clearly that is not the reason why the British company is charguing millions more.

That is what you should be questioning. The greed of the owners

Ultimately, something as important as a passport, something every citizen ought to have, should not be dealt with at the whims of market forces. That it moronic, and clearly France and Germany recognise that fact (as do most countries, I'd hazard a guess). It is a security issue. Problem with the UK, especially a Conservative led UK government, is that the market is seen as god and everything considered 'better off' exposed to market forces. No REAL sense of patriotism or national pride whatsoever, rather ironically, considering how much BS conservative minded minded people beat on the Left for being 'anti-British'.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


What you should be asking is why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years?

That is a staggering amount of money and if they want the contract they have to meet what the other company is going to charge

I am sure that 120 million can go to money better spent in this country, than some passport

She is not barganing any jobs, that is the company blackmailing them

Do other EU countries insist?

How many and to be honest who cares

This is about being cost effective

If the British company cannot match, that, i would question, how greedy they truly are, considering France's minimum wage is over £10 an hour. It shows they have better wages. So clearly that is not the reason why the British company is charguing millions more.

That is what you should be questioning. The greed of the owners

Ultimately, something as important as a passport, something every citizen ought to have, should not be dealt with at the whims of market forces. That it moronic, and clearly France and Germany recognise that fact (as do most countries, I'd hazard a guess). It is a security issue. Problem with the UK, especially a Conservative led UK government, is that the market is seen as god and everything considered 'better off' exposed to market forces. No REAL sense of patriotism or national pride whatsoever, rather ironically, considering how much BS conservative minded minded people beat on the Left for being 'anti-British'.

Really because you says so?

So your reasoning is based on France and germany and not any actual reason.

A security issue, how so?

Sorry, but can you actualy present something that has substance?

This is now a very competative world and again, why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years and why can they not bring down their prices?

Oh and for the record, this French company has sites in Fareham and Heywood in Lancashire, which would create 70 new jobs.

So technically, it would still be made in the UK

Seriously, what is the big deal in that?

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


What you should be asking is why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years?

That is a staggering amount of money and if they want the contract they have to meet what the other company is going to charge

I am sure that 120 million can go to money better spent in this country, than some passport

She is not barganing any jobs, that is the company blackmailing them

Do other EU countries insist?

How many and to be honest who cares

This is about being cost effective

If the British company cannot match, that, i would question, how greedy they truly are, considering France's minimum wage is over £10 an hour. It shows they have better wages. So clearly that is not the reason why the British company is charguing millions more.

That is what you should be questioning. The greed of the owners

Ultimately, something as important as a passport, something every citizen ought to have, should not be dealt with at the whims of market forces. That it moronic, and clearly France and Germany recognise that fact (as do most countries, I'd hazard a guess). It is a security issue. Problem with the UK, especially a Conservative led UK government, is that the market is seen as god and everything considered 'better off' exposed to market forces. No REAL sense of patriotism or national pride whatsoever, rather ironically, considering how much BS conservative minded minded people beat on the Left for being 'anti-British'.

Really because you says so?

So your reasoning is based on France and germany and not any actual reason.

A security issue, how so?

Sorry, but can you actualy present something that has substance?

This is now a very competative world and again, why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years and why can they not bring down their prices?

The Right are endlessly going on about the anti-British attitudes of LWers. Yet, the arch-RW party in the UK is allowing something as important to British security as British Passports being made by a French company.

Of course, a conservative like yourself would have no problem pawning off every single aspect of British industry, services and resources to the highest bidder. Because the market is always right according to RW thinking.

I have no idea why the British company is charging more, and neither do you. But the cost is irrelevant.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


Really because you says so?

So your reasoning is based on France and germany and not any actual reason.

A security issue, how so?

Sorry, but can you actualy present something that has substance?

This is now a very competative world and again, why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years and why can they not bring down their prices?

The Right are endlessly going on about the anti-British attitudes of LWers. Yet, the arch-RW party in the UK is allowing something as important to British security as British Passports being made by a French company.

Of course, a conservative like yourself would have no problem pawning off every single aspect of British industry, services and resources to the highest bidder. Because the market is always right according to RW thinking.

I have no idea why the British company is charging more, and neither do you. But the cost is irrelevant.

Well can you not see Sassy endlessly trying to defend Russia daily on here?

Maybe if she did not and the likes of Corbyn did not and actually acted like the majority of labour MP's standing behind the Governement on this issue. Then Right wingers would have no cause to call them anti-British.

I fail to see how a company, which is going to create 70 new jobs on its site in the UK, is being anti-British?

Shall we not use every bit of Miltary hardware that we import from countries, like the US, France and Israel?

Do you question that as being anti-British?

Ah then we expose you turning this now about me, when I am center right and hold actually many Liberal views

Seriously, how desperate was that, to make this now about me?

Do you want this to turn into a tit for tat slanging match, since you started, or actually use your brain and have a comprehension discusion here?

Considering we have many foreign companies in the UK, based on your reasoning, none should be here and that everything should be British made. That is not how the world works is it.

So you would have to, say anything we use or have. To you, should be British made, do you stand by that, based on your absurd claim here, on anti-British?

You see this is socialist dumb thinking. A claim, that cost is irrelevant. That scares many people, when socialists say that.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


Really because you says so?

So your reasoning is based on France and germany and not any actual reason.

A security issue, how so?

Sorry, but can you actualy present something that has substance?

This is now a very competative world and again, why is the British company charging more than 120 million over 5 years and why can they not bring down their prices?

The Right are endlessly going on about the anti-British attitudes of LWers. Yet, the arch-RW party in the UK is allowing something as important to British security as British Passports being made by a French company.

Of course, a conservative like yourself would have no problem pawning off every single aspect of British industry, services and resources to the highest bidder. Because the market is always right according to RW thinking.

I have no idea why the British company is charging more, and neither do you. But the cost is irrelevant.

Well can you not see Sassy endlessly trying to defend Russia daily on here?

Maybe if she did not and the likes of Corbyn did not and actually acted like the majority of labour MP's standing behind the Governement on this issue. Then Right wingers would have no cause to call them anti-British.

I fail to see how a company, which is going to create 70 new jobs on its site in the UK, is being anti-British?

Shall we not use every bit of Miltary hardware that we import from countries, like the US, France and Israel?

Do you question that as being anti-British?

Ah then we expose you turning this now about me, when I am center right and hold actually many Liberal views

Seriously, how desperate was that, to make this now about me?

Do you want this to turn into a tit for tat slanging match, since you started, or actually use your brain and have a comprehension discusion here?

Considering we have many foreign companies in the UK, based on your reasoning, none should be here and that everything should be British made. That is not how the world works is it.

So you would have to, say anything we use or have. To you, should be British made, do you stand by that, based on your absurd claim here, on anti-British?

You see this is socialist dumb thinking. A claim, that cost is irrelevant. That scares many people, when socialists say that.

You are making colossal presumptions here.

Did I say everything used in Britain should made in Britain? No. In fact I think that would be an awful idea.
Did I say using things not British made is anti-British? No. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.

I like Japanese electronics, I like my Korean phone, I prefer alcohol from pretty much everywhere BUT Britain lol

However, these are all things do not relate to British identity, security and citizenship. I'm not so far to the left I think we should control all industry and services, I think the vast majority should be left to the markets. But most things related to the public interest and national security should be in British hands (or the hands of whatever nation we are discussing).

On your point on weapons, I think it would be ideal if we could produce all our own, since there is a definite potential issue with having foreign agencies producing them for us, BUT, that is not always possible. With passports, however... well, if Britain can't even produce its own passports we are truly screwed. That isn't the case though, the only reason they aren't seems to be cold hard cash.

Eilzel wrote:

You are making colossal presumptions here.

Didge wrote:Actually, I am using your reasoning here, based on something considered British and being made here.

Did I say everything used in Britain should made in Britain? No. In fact I think that would be an awful idea.

Didge wrote:Oh so you agree it would be a bad idea, glad we got that straight

Did I say using things not British made is anti-British? No. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.

Didge wrote:You stated in regards around this with being anti-British, poorly trying to compare this to when RW people rightly are crtical of people like Corbyn

I like Japanese electronics, I like my Korean phone, I prefer alcohol from pretty much everywhere BUT Britain lol

Didge wrote:That is nice

However, these are all things do not relate to British identity, security and citizenship. I'm not so far to the left I think we should control all industry and services, I think the vast majority should be left to the markets. But most things related to the public interest and national security should be in British hands (or the hands of whatever nation we are discussing).

Didge wrote:That has to be the most biggest load of abritary nonsense of i have ever heard
As seen many things on national security are reliant of foreign sources and military hardware. For example how we use israeli systems. I would trust them more than many to protect our nation. Are you suggesting France is not trustworthy? You see when it boils down to it, we already in many fields to allocate do companies that are not British for our security. They protect things like your bank accounts.
So why are you not worried about that?

On your point on weapons, I think it would be ideal if we could produce all our own, since there is a definite potential issue with having foreign agencies producing them for us, BUT, that is not always possible. With passports, however... well, if Britain can't even produce its own passports we are truly screwed. That isn't the case though, the only reason they aren't seems to be cold hard cash.

Have you seen how poor the SA80 British army rifle is?
So you agree its not always possible, but want to make an exception with passports.
I have heard these arguments over decades. We heard the same with the Mini and its even better now that its made by BMW.

I mean come on Eilzel, this seems more about pride than anything else.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

You are making colossal presumptions here.

Didge wrote:Actually, I am using your reasoning here, based on something considered British and being made here.

Did I say everything used in Britain should made in Britain? No. In fact I think that would be an awful idea.

Didge wrote:Oh so you agree it would be a bad idea, glad we got that straight

Did I say using things not British made is anti-British? No. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.

Didge wrote:You stated in regards around this with being anti-British, poorly trying to compare this to when RW people rightly are crtical of people like Corbyn

I like Japanese electronics, I like my Korean phone, I prefer alcohol from pretty much everywhere BUT Britain lol

Didge wrote:That is nice

However, these are all things do not relate to British identity, security and citizenship. I'm not so far to the left I think we should control all industry and services, I think the vast majority should be left to the markets. But most things related to the public interest and national security should be in British hands (or the hands of whatever nation we are discussing).

Didge wrote:That has to be the most biggest load of abritary nonsense of i have ever heard
As seen many things on national security are reliant of foreign sources and military hardware. For example how we use israeli systems. I would trust them more than many to protect our nation. Are you suggesting France is not trustworthy? You see when it boils down to it, we already in many fields to allocate do companies that are not British for our security. They protect things like your bank accounts.
So why are you not worried about that?

On your point on weapons, I think it would be ideal if we could produce all our own, since there is a definite potential issue with having foreign agencies producing them for us, BUT, that is not always possible. With passports, however... well, if Britain can't even produce its own passports we are truly screwed. That isn't the case though, the only reason they aren't seems to be cold hard cash.

Have you seen how poor the SA80 British army rifle is?
So you agree its not always possible, but want to make an exception with passports.
I have heard these arguments over decades. We heard the same with the Mini and its even better now that its made by BMW.

I mean come on Eilzel, this seems more about pride than anything else.

A passport is not a car.

And pride, national pride, is one reason I see this as ridiculous (so many German and French people I speak to find it ridiculous how much of our public services or infrastructure we allow to be owned or run by foreign (inc. French and German) companies. To them it is bizarre, a country should have a hold on its own resources and services. I agree with them.

Though back to my OP, I do find this particular instance funny more than anything. I didn't vote for the cause of this nonsense, the people who hate this kind of thing indirectly brought it about.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

Have you seen how poor the SA80 British army rifle is?
So you agree its not always possible, but want to make an exception with passports.
I have heard these arguments over decades. We heard the same with the Mini and its even better now that its made by BMW.

I mean come on Eilzel, this seems more about pride than anything else.

A passport is not a car.

And pride, national pride, is one reason I see this as ridiculous (so many German and French people I speak to find it ridiculous how much of our public services or infrastructure we allow to be owned or run by foreign (inc. French and German) companies. To them it is bizarre, a country should have a hold on its own resources and services. I agree with them.

Though back to my OP, I do find this particular instance funny more than anything. I didn't vote for the cause of this nonsense, the people who hate this kind of thing indirectly brought it about.

It may not be a car, but the principle is the same

Its based upon a view of something based nationally is it not?

This is not somee film that is historically innaccurate

You are making this about, An identity.

I mean come on, I back patriotism, when it comes to sports, and our armed forces etc but based off a company, that is ethnically and culturally very assimilated as European? You said so yourself, you are pro EU, and guess what, so am I. I think Britain would be stronger united with Europe. The reality is, I just dont harp on about the fact the majority wanted to leave and hence I respect their decision. Which they have to take the rap for, if things go tits up.

So your whole argument is based on nationalism. Do you really want me to go there mate? 
I mean to say foreign, when we say French and German, when we are descended from the Anglo Saxons and Normans (the later a mix of Franks and Vikings), Celts (Germanic again), Romans, etc. If you said the Irish, Welsh, or Scottish. You may well have an argument, but classing Germans and French as foriegn, when we are ultimatelly culturally and ethically assimilated?

This is a country now having hold of its own resources. Outsourcing to companies to produce passports, shows emphatically, it is making those decisions, does it not? I mean look at this based xenophobically. That people who's first language is not English, is making our passports. Where 7 million British citizens are foreign born.
Are you going to say, they cannot make something British, based on your line of thinking?

Not being funny mate, but do you see how this sort of thinking, actually, does lead to racism?
Because if you enact security, what you are saying, is that you do not trust the French with producing these passports.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

Have you seen how poor the SA80 British army rifle is?
So you agree its not always possible, but want to make an exception with passports.
I have heard these arguments over decades. We heard the same with the Mini and its even better now that its made by BMW.

I mean come on Eilzel, this seems more about pride than anything else.

A passport is not a car.

And pride, national pride, is one reason I see this as ridiculous (so many German and French people I speak to find it ridiculous how much of our public services or infrastructure we allow to be owned or run by foreign (inc. French and German) companies. To them it is bizarre, a country should have a hold on its own resources and services. I agree with them.

Though back to my OP, I do find this particular instance funny more than anything. I didn't vote for the cause of this nonsense, the people who hate this kind of thing indirectly brought it about.

It may not be a car, but the principle is the same

Its based upon a view of something based nationally is it not?

This is not somee film that is historically innaccurate

You are making this about, An identity.

I mean come on, I back patriotism, when it comes to sports, and our armed forces etc but based off a company, that is ethnically and culturally very assimilated as European? You said so yourself, you are pro EU, and guess what, so am I. I think Britain would be stronger united with Europe. The reality is, I just dont harp on about the fact the majority wanted to leave and hence I respect their decision. Which they have to take the rap for, if things go tits up.

So your whole argument is based on nationalism. Do you really want me to go there mate? 
I mean to say foreign, when we say French and German, when we are descended from the Anglo Saxons and Normans (the later a mix of Franks and Vikings), Celts (Germanic again), Romans, etc. If you said the Irish, Welsh, or Scottish. You may well have an argument, but classing Germans and French as foriegn, when we are ultimatelly culturally and ethically assimilated?

This is a country now having hold of its own resources. Outsourcing to companies to produce passports, shows emphatically, it is making those decisions, does it not? I mean look at this based xenophobically. That people who's first language is not English, is making our passports. Where 7 million British citizens are foreign born.
Are you going to say, they cannot make something British, based on your line of thinking?

Not being funny mate, but do you see how this sort of thinking, actually, does lead to racism?
Because if you enact security, what you are saying, is that you do not trust the French with producing these passports.

No, I don't see how it leads to racism.
I'm not saying I don't trust the French. Nor would a Frenchman saying the same be untrusting of the British.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


It may not be a car, but the principle is the same

Its based upon a view of something based nationally is it not?

This is not somee film that is historically innaccurate

You are making this about, An identity.

I mean come on, I back patriotism, when it comes to sports, and our armed forces etc but based off a company, that is ethnically and culturally very assimilated as European? You said so yourself, you are pro EU, and guess what, so am I. I think Britain would be stronger united with Europe. The reality is, I just dont harp on about the fact the majority wanted to leave and hence I respect their decision. Which they have to take the rap for, if things go tits up.

So your whole argument is based on nationalism. Do you really want me to go there mate? 
I mean to say foreign, when we say French and German, when we are descended from the Anglo Saxons and Normans (the later a mix of Franks and Vikings), Celts (Germanic again), Romans, etc. If you said the Irish, Welsh, or Scottish. You may well have an argument, but classing Germans and French as foriegn, when we are ultimatelly culturally and ethically assimilated?

This is a country now having hold of its own resources. Outsourcing to companies to produce passports, shows emphatically, it is making those decisions, does it not? I mean look at this based xenophobically. That people who's first language is not English, is making our passports. Where 7 million British citizens are foreign born.
Are you going to say, they cannot make something British, based on your line of thinking?

Not being funny mate, but do you see how this sort of thinking, actually, does lead to racism?
Because if you enact security, what you are saying, is that you do not trust the French with producing these passports.

No, I don't see how it leads to racism.
I'm not saying I don't trust the French. Nor would a Frenchman saying the same be untrusting of the British.

You seem to be when you claim security issues earlier. is that not trust issues?
So again why does something need to be made in the UK for British people?
There is no need and to claim there is has all the hall marks of by gone years
Oh yes it can very much lead to racism and i think this is more to do with age old rivalries we have with the French that has gotten people all uptight

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:


It may not be a car, but the principle is the same

Its based upon a view of something based nationally is it not?

This is not somee film that is historically innaccurate

You are making this about, An identity.

I mean come on, I back patriotism, when it comes to sports, and our armed forces etc but based off a company, that is ethnically and culturally very assimilated as European? You said so yourself, you are pro EU, and guess what, so am I. I think Britain would be stronger united with Europe. The reality is, I just dont harp on about the fact the majority wanted to leave and hence I respect their decision. Which they have to take the rap for, if things go tits up.

So your whole argument is based on nationalism. Do you really want me to go there mate? 
I mean to say foreign, when we say French and German, when we are descended from the Anglo Saxons and Normans (the later a mix of Franks and Vikings), Celts (Germanic again), Romans, etc. If you said the Irish, Welsh, or Scottish. You may well have an argument, but classing Germans and French as foriegn, when we are ultimatelly culturally and ethically assimilated?

This is a country now having hold of its own resources. Outsourcing to companies to produce passports, shows emphatically, it is making those decisions, does it not? I mean look at this based xenophobically. That people who's first language is not English, is making our passports. Where 7 million British citizens are foreign born.
Are you going to say, they cannot make something British, based on your line of thinking?

Not being funny mate, but do you see how this sort of thinking, actually, does lead to racism?
Because if you enact security, what you are saying, is that you do not trust the French with producing these passports.

No, I don't see how it leads to racism.
I'm not saying I don't trust the French. Nor would a Frenchman saying the same be untrusting of the British.

You seem to be when you claim security issues earlier. is that not trust issues?
So again why does something need to be made in the UK for British people?
There is no need and to claim there is has all the hall marks of by gone years
Oh yes it can very much lead to racism and i think this is more to do with age old rivalries we have with the French that has gotten people all uptight

My personal opinion on this would be the same if the passports were being made in Japan, Germany, America, Thailand or anywhere else.

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:

You seem to be when you claim security issues earlier. is that not trust issues?
So again why does something need to be made in the UK for British people?
There is no need and to claim there is has all the hall marks of by gone years
Oh yes it can very much lead to racism and i think this is more to do with age old rivalries we have with the French that has gotten people all uptight

My personal opinion on this would be the same if the passports were being made in Japan, Germany, America, Thailand or anywhere else.

What does that matter?

Are you going to say the same, if the British company employs, Japanese, German, American ect employees?

For those who are bothered about this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5537713/Mail-petition-contract-UKs-new-blue-passport-British-firm.html




50,000 have signed already

Tommy Monk wrote:The manufacture of UK passports is something that should be done by a civil service dept... not a contract that is up for tender by any private company... and definately not something that should be allowed to be done by any foreign company in a foreign country...!

I never thought I'd hear such socialism from you, tom. Privatizing is on the rise these days.

Didge wrote:For those who are bothered about this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5537713/Mail-petition-contract-UKs-new-blue-passport-British-firm.html




50,000 have signed already

Almost 71,000 now Didge.....just proves the man in the street care about this.

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:For those who are bothered about this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5537713/Mail-petition-contract-UKs-new-blue-passport-British-firm.html




50,000 have signed already

Almost 71,000 now Didge.....just proves the man in the street care about this.

I do not doubt people care on this Syl, that is evident by the replies

I just myself do not see it as an issue, each to their own I guess and if they get this reversed by this petition, good luck to them.

Just noticed your avatar Syl. That is really cool.

Did you create that yourself?

I did Didge thank you.
I can draw on OH's tablet, not on my laptop...so I mess about on there when he is watching TV late on.
Also did one for lovely Mags.....they depict the Easter bonnets if anyone is wondering why I am drawing women in big hats.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The manufacture of UK passports is something that should be done by a civil service dept... not a contract that is up for tender by any private company... and definately not something that should be allowed to be done by any foreign company in a foreign country...!

I never thought I'd hear such socialism from you, tom.  Privatizing is on the rise these days.

It's not about socialism... it's about national security...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The manufacture of UK passports is something that should be done by a civil service dept... not a contract that is up for tender by any private company... and definately not something that should be allowed to be done by any foreign company in a foreign country...!

I never thought I'd hear such socialism from you, tom.  Privatizing is on the rise these days.

It's not about socialism... it's about national security...!

You keep a beady eye on your right-wing politicians, then

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/12/national-defense-concerns-preclude-the-outsourcing/

Right-wing source for you and everything.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


It's not about socialism... it's about national security...!

You keep a beady eye on your right-wing politicians, then

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/12/national-defense-concerns-preclude-the-outsourcing/

Right-wing source for you and everything.

What has that got to do with the UK, and/or manufacture of UK passports...?





Also... your politicians are nothing to do with me...!

You got to Admit the French Did make a very nice British passport