Gay marriage

by eddie Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:58 am

Same sex marriage is not gay privilege, it's equal rights.
Privilege, would be something like gay people not paying taxes.
Like churches don't.

- Ricky Gervais

by veya_victaous Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:14 am

I like that one Smile

by eddie Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:29 am

Me too, says it all really Wink

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:37 am

Gervais a legend, and statements like this just cement his status for me Smile

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:53 am

Uuurgh, this is such a tricky subject.

I know at first glance it sounds so obvious.

But they are trying to enter a closed club.

You can't just barge in to a closed club.

Some you have to be invited in to, some you have to qualify, some, if you're born the wrong shape, size, colour you can't join.

It's just the way it is, and if they are all about "rights" then it should be rights for everybody, not just them.

The right to say no is just as important as the right to say yes.

by eddie Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:28 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:Uuurgh, this is such a tricky subject.

I know at first glance it sounds so obvious.

But they are trying to enter a closed club.

You can't just barge in to a closed club.

Some you have to be invited in to, some you have to qualify, some, if you're born the wrong shape, size, colour you can't join.

It's just the way it is, and if they are all about "rights" then it should be rights for everybody, not just them.

The right to say no is just as important as the right to say yes.

Why is it a closed club though Andy? We're not taking about a man trying to marry a horse?

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:31 pm

eddie wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:Uuurgh, this is such a tricky subject.

I know at first glance it sounds so obvious.

But they are trying to enter a closed club.

You can't just barge in to a closed club.

Some you have to be invited in to, some you have to qualify, some, if you're born the wrong shape, size, colour you can't join.

It's just the way it is, and if they are all about "rights" then it should be rights for everybody, not just them.

The right to say no is just as important as the right to say yes.

Why is it a closed club though Andy? We're not taking about a man trying to marry a horse?

For that, I was just talking about getting married in church.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:42 pm

churches should always have the right to refuse homosexuals marriage.

by eddie Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:13 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
eddie wrote:

Why is it a closed club though Andy? We're not taking about a man trying to marry a horse?

For that, I was just talking about getting married in church.

So in that case, dont you think churches should refuse people that don't attend church too? They could be marrying two axe murderers for al they know.
If at least one of the couple is unknown to the vicar then surely it's a closed club then too?

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Tbf no one has said gay people should be allowed to be marriervin a church, so that is an irrelevant point to make andy and HF; that said if a particular religious order does allow gay marriage they should not be prevented from doing so.

The OP is simply debunking the RW myth that gay people want privileges, which is of course a complete fabrication of paranoid bigoted imaginations.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:50 pm

eddie wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

For that, I was just talking about getting married in church.

So in that case, dont you think churches should refuse people that don't attend church too? They could be marrying two axe murderers for al they know.
If at least one of the couple is unknown to the vicar then surely it's a closed club then too?

that wouldn't work as the gays would demand to be married or take it to the papers and said it was because they were gay.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:52 pm

Eilzel wrote:Tbf no one has said gay people should be allowed to be marriervin a church, so that is an irrelevant point to make andy and HF; that said if a particular religious order does allow gay marriage they should not be prevented from doing so.

The OP is simply debunking the RW myth that gay people want privileges, which is of course a complete fabrication of paranoid bigoted imaginations.

the risk was and still could be whether churches would be forced to marry gays and i think it is a valid worry, it should never happen but we do know militant gays tend to get their own way..

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Nonesense, you are just speculating based on nothing but personal prejudice based assumptions.

Gay people have every right to be married, and churches of whatever religion have every right to marry who they wish to. The law now ensures both those rights are enshrined, so stop moaning and get on with enjoying your own marriage, we will do the same Smile

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:01 pm

Eilzel wrote:Nonesense, you are just speculating based on nothing but personal prejudice based assumptions.

Gay people have every right to be married, and churches of whatever religion have every right to marry who they wish to. The law now ensures both those rights are enshrined, so stop moaning and get on with enjoying your own marriage, we will do the same

At the moment but time will tell how far the militant gays will go and i'm pretty sure they won't settle for churches that will marry them and insist a church cannot refuse them.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:07 pm

I don't understand why it bothers people? Whose business is it to deny anyone getting married? Gay marriage I_don_21

It affects no one but the couple making the commitment.

There is only one reason I can think of, prejudice

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:10 pm

feelthelove wrote:I don't understand why it bothers people? Whose business is it to deny anyone getting married? It affects no one but the couple making the commitment.

There is only one reason I can think of, prejudice

the only point i would make is if churches believe that homosexuality is against God's word they should not be forced to marry gay couples.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:17 pm

Eilzel wrote:Nonesense, you are just speculating based on nothing but personal prejudice based assumptions.

Gay people have every right to be married, and churches of whatever religion have every right to marry who they wish to. The law now ensures both those rights are enshrined, so stop moaning and get on with enjoying your own marriage, we will do the same

Exactly, Christianity only adapted marriage and centuries after its foundation, the Christian religious ceremony was invented by the church, people were getting married without any ceremony in a church in fact only some got a blessing. People also get married in a registry office everyday

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:22 pm

feelthelove wrote:I don't understand why it bothers people? Whose business is it to deny anyone getting married? It affects no one but the couple making the commitment.

There is only one reason I can think of, prejudice

That's just it FtL; and because of that prejudice they kicked and screamed about it, and continue to scream about it 6 months after the bill was passed- amazing how much fuss could be made by people to prevent equal rights (for gay people AND other religions) because of what they 'think' might happen in their bitter minds..

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:24 pm

and your prejudice brings you gay rights to the front ahead of anyone elses so pot/kettle leaps to mind..lol

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:25 pm

heavenly father wrote:and your prejudice brings you gay rights to the front ahead of anyone elses so pot/kettle leaps to mind..lol

Eh?

The main prejudice I see comes from you

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:27 pm

heavenly father wrote:and your prejudice brings you gay rights to the front ahead of anyone elses so pot/kettle leaps to mind..lol

Except they don't Heavenly Father, they just want the same rights as you and me. That's not too much to ask is it. Gay marriage Thumbs91

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 pm

heavenly father wrote:and your prejudice brings you gay rights to the front ahead of anyone elses so pot/kettle leaps to mind..lol

Except that is just BS troll waffle- if you can't actually put up and say whose rights I'm putting gay rights ahead I suggest you stop talking crap for a change.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:29 pm

feelthelove wrote:
heavenly father wrote:and your prejudice brings you gay rights to the front ahead of anyone elses so pot/kettle leaps to mind..lol

Except they don't Heavenly Father, they just want the same rights as you and me. That's not too much to ask is it.

But if a church does not want to marry them is that their right to refuse...

by Eilzel Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:24 pm

heavenly father wrote:
feelthelove wrote:

Except they don't Heavenly Father, they just want the same rights as you and me. That's not too much to ask is it.

But if a church does not want to marry them is that their right to refuse...

Which has already been said- you are just whinging because you and those of your opinion didn't want gay couples to marry AT ALL- and you lost the vote, big time- get over it Smile

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:28 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

But if a church does not want to marry them is that their right to refuse...

Which has already been said- you are just whinging because you and those of your opinion didn't want gay couples to marry AT ALL- and you lost the vote, big time- get over it

so we just had gays who said, just let us be together that's all we want, then we want to be allowed to live together as a couple, then we get we should be able to marry and you think for some reason it will stop before churches are forced to marry gays in their church whether they want to or not, sorry but I cannot believe you because that is not how history has gone and the militants will never settle till they have their way.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:44 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Which has already been said- you are just whinging because you and those of your opinion didn't want gay couples to marry AT ALL- and you lost the vote, big time- get over it

so we just had gays who said, just let us be together that's all we want, then we want to be allowed to live together as a couple, then we get we should be able to marry and you think for some reason it will stop before churches are forced to marry gays in their church whether they want to or not, sorry but I cannot believe you because that is not how history has gone and the militants will never settle till they have their way.

Have you heard of live and let live Heavenly Father? :D

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:46 pm

feelthelove wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

so we just had gays who said, just let us be together that's all we want, then we want to be allowed to live together as a couple, then we get we should be able to marry and you think for some reason it will stop before churches are forced to marry gays in their church whether they want to or not, sorry but I cannot believe you because that is not how history has gone and the militants will never settle till they have their way.

Have you heard of live and let live Heavenly Father? :D

yep that's how all the trouble started, have they heard of live and let live, have the gay couple who ripped of a Christian B&b heard of live and let live...

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:12 pm

The only people who have ever bossed churches around have been monarchs. There is absolutely nothing in history to suggest that anyone will ever force churches to marry people they don't want to marry, as they have a well-established right not to marry even hetero couples they feel shouldn't be married.

The whole suggestion also suggests that gay people would wish to be married by some religious official who'd have a scowl on his/her face all through the ceremony on their happy day -- it's just stupid, we have to stop acting like it's a legit concern.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:14 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:The only people who have ever bossed churches around have been monarchs. There is absolutely nothing in history to suggest that anyone will ever force churches to marry people they don't want to marry, as they have a well-established right not to marry even hetero couples they feel shouldn't be married.

The whole suggestion also suggests that gay people would wish to be married by some religious official who'd have a scowl on his/her face all through the ceremony on their happy day -- it's just stupid, we have to stop acting like it's a legit concern.

read my above post...there is every reason to suspect gays fueled by militant gays will put more and more pressure on churches making it impossible for them to refuse, in exactly the same way as they did on the owners of a b&b...

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:31 pm

I read it and it's bullshit. Anyone who opens their business to the law-abiding public has to serve the public as defined by the law. If you don't want to do business with a particular type of person, it's easy -- don't open your door to the public and instead operate as a private club where you can decide who's a member and who's not. Idiotic.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I read it and it's bullshit. Anyone who opens their business to the law-abiding public has to serve the public as defined by the law. If you don't want to do business with a particular type of person, it's easy -- don't open your door to the public and instead operate as a private club where you can decide who's a member and who's not. Idiotic.

Nicely put Ben!

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:42 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I read it and it's bullshit. Anyone who opens their business to the law-abiding public has to serve the public as defined by the law. If you don't want to do business with a particular type of person, it's easy -- don't open your door to the public and instead operate as a private club where you can decide who's a member and who's not. Idiotic.

they stated they did not allow any unmarried couples the gay militant couple went there knowing this, they did it on purpose..

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:48 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I read it and it's bullshit. Anyone who opens their business to the law-abiding public has to serve the public as defined by the law. If you don't want to do business with a particular type of person, it's easy -- don't open your door to the public and instead operate as a private club where you can decide who's a member and who's not. Idiotic.

they stated they did not allow any unmarried couples the gay militant couple went there knowing this, they did it on purpose..

So? It's discrimination and as I pointed out, there's an easy way around having to do business with any member of the law-abiding public you're bigoted against.

Good on the gay couple for showing out the bigots. And as far as the bigots go -- how Christlike of them! :D

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:53 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

they stated they did not allow any unmarried couples the gay militant couple went there knowing this, they did it on purpose..

So? It's discrimination and as I pointed out, there's an easy way around having to do business with any member of the law-abiding public you're bigoted against.

Good on the gay couple for showing out the bigots. And as far as the bigots go -- how Christlike of them! :D

it was to all unmarried couples, how is that discrimination to gays?? it shows the militants up to their tricks again exactly why they will push for equality to be married in church any church.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:55 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

So? It's discrimination and as I pointed out, there's an easy way around having to do business with any member of the law-abiding public you're bigoted against.

Good on the gay couple for showing out the bigots. And as far as the bigots go -- how Christlike of them! :D

it was to all unmarried couples, how is that discrimination to gays?? it shows the militants up to their tricks again exactly why they will push for equality to be married in church any church.

Actually they are in a civil partnership, so were technically married in the eyes of the law.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:58 pm

Catman wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

it was to all unmarried couples, how is that discrimination to gays?? it shows the militants up to their tricks again exactly why they will push for equality to be married in church any church.

Actually they are in a civil partnership, so were technically married in the eyes of the law.

as would heterosexual couples if living together so long, it still was not discrimination.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:00 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Catman wrote:

Actually they are in a civil partnership, so were technically married in the eyes of the law.

as would heterosexual couples if living together so long, it still was not discrimination.

Well all the courts in this land and the high court in Europe disagree.

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:02 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Catman wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

it was to all unmarried couples, how is that discrimination to gays?? it shows the militants up to their tricks again exactly why they will push for equality to be married in church any church.

Actually they are in a civil partnership, so were technically married in the eyes of the law.

as would heterosexual couples if living together so long, it still was not discrimination.

So what if they also discriminated against straight unmarried couples? They were still trying to operate a public business without actually catering to the public. Their solution is simple, end of story.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:02 pm

Catman wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

as would heterosexual couples if living together so long, it still was not discrimination.

Well all the courts in this land and the high court in Europe disagree.

derr well they would wouldn't they, one can't be seen not backing gay rights, what ever next...

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:29 am

heavenly father wrote:churches should always have the right to refuse homosexuals marriage.

No, Churches should have the right to deny Gays marrying in Church ceremonies but not to Marry Legally.

Marriage has nothing to do with Christianity. It has been practiced for far longer and in far more cultures than Christian.

The FIRST book of western literature, the Iliad by Homer(story of Troy) is the story of a wife (Helen) running away from her husband, the novel is older than Christianity. the Story has direct interaction by Hera, Apollo and Poseidon (plus other gods) So Western Marriage belongs to the Pagans (particularly Hera the goddess of Family harmony and Monogamy)

Not only that the term 'marriage' just means
'to join and make inseparable'
It is term beyond to social meaning and is a common chemistry term

Divorce is a greater confliction to marriage than gay marriage.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:32 am

Marriage should surely be about love and commitment between two people who want to spend the rest of their lives together Gay marriage Love_h50

No one should have the right to deny something which affects no other than the involved parties.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenly father wrote:churches should always have the right to refuse homosexuals marriage.

No, Churches should have the right to deny Gays marrying in Church ceremonies but not to Marry Legally.

Marriage has nothing to do with Christianity. It has been practiced for far longer and in far more cultures than Christian.

The FIRST book of western literature, the Iliad by Homer(story of Troy) is the story of a wife (Helen) running away from her husband, the novel is older than Christianity. the Story has direct interaction by Hera, Apollo and Poseidon (plus other gods) So Western Marriage belongs to the Pagans (particularly Hera the goddess of Family harmony and Monogamy)

Not only that the term 'marriage' just means
'to join and make inseparable'
It is term beyond to social meaning and is a common chemistry term

Divorce is a greater confliction to marriage than gay marriage.

Churches should be able to say "no" we will not marry gay people in our church but the one of the first to crumble will be the so called CofE churches and then pressure will grow, then regardless of the rights of the church and its believers the y will be forced to agree or face prosecution or closure, you can see the agenda at work already.

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:51 am

@father
well you will have to join/start a new church ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: I doubt Islam will bow to 'their agenda' any time soon :::grouch:: If you feel so passionate about gays marrying at you current church.

serious question, do you think they will 'defile' it or something? what would be you personal opposition if the Church said it was Ok?

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:55 am

veya_victaous wrote:@father
well you will have to join/start a new church ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: I doubt Islam will bow to 'their agenda' any time soon :::grouch:: If you feel so passionate about gays marrying at you current church.

serious question, do you think they will 'defile' it or something? what would be you personal opposition if the Church said it was Ok?

Because it would be against biblical principals and the church is supposed to uphold and encourage them.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:57 am

heavenly father wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@father
well you will have to join/start a new church ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: ::alahoo:: I doubt Islam will bow to 'their agenda' any time soon :::grouch:: If you feel so passionate about gays marrying at you current church.

serious question, do you think they will 'defile' it or something? what would be you personal opposition if the Church said it was Ok?

Because it would be against biblical principals and the church is supposed to uphold and encourage them.

The Church has been the institution that has been holding back principles and for a very long time, Christianity did not, but people of that faith did.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:01 am

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

Because it would be against biblical principals and the church is supposed to uphold and encourage them.

The Church has been the institution that has been holding back principles and for a very long time, Christianity did not, but people of that faith did.

the church upholds what the bible says, it may prove in time it was good that it held some things back as they were never any good for us in the first place.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:11 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

The Church has been the institution that has been holding back principles and for a very long time, Christianity did not, but people of that faith did.

the church upholds what the bible says, it may prove in time it was good that it held some things back as they were never any good for us in the first place.

Yes the Church upheld what the bible states, every time and at the cost of any rational reasoning.
Hence then, clearly are nation, is not born on Christian traditions (but what Jesus taught), as those traditions tried poorly to hold us back on obtaining equality to all and sadly they still do today.
That shows to me, we are no longer living with those outdated traditions and thank goodness for that, as we are free to make rational decisions instead of ones based on many fairy Tales

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:12 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

The Church has been the institution that has been holding back principles and for a very long time, Christianity did not, but people of that faith did.

the church upholds what the bible says, it may prove in time it was good that it held some things back as they were never any good for us in the first place.

Well why do they allow divorce? that is against the biblical teachings.
They could at least deny divorcees second marriages in churches too Neutral

I don't understand why gays would want to get married in a operating church anyway. confused

So I am fine with Churches not allowing but I think they should extend it to all cases against biblical teachings.
But I don't accept Churches/Christians denying them the legal right, as that affects taxation and all sorts of things so it is unfair. And secular societies should have laws based on fairness not religion. (I assume you agree since you have expressed opposition to sharia)

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:15 am

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

the church upholds what the bible says, it may prove in time it was good that it held some things back as they were never any good for us in the first place.

Well why do they allow divorce? that is against the biblical teachings.
They could at least deny divorcees second marriages in churches too

I don't understand why gays would want to get married in a operating church anyway.

So I am fine with Churches not allowing but I think they should extend it to all cases against biblical teachings.
But I don't accept Churches/Christians denying them the legal right, as that affects taxation and all sorts of things so it is unfair. And secular societies should have laws based on fairness not religion. (I assume you agree since you have expressed opposition to sharia)

moses did say i will allow you to divorce but it is because of their hard hearts, the church does not do divorce ceremonies so it is a pointless thing to bring up, every church i have been to do there utmost to talk people round to staying together.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:18 am

heavenly father wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Well why do they allow divorce? that is against the biblical teachings.
They could at least deny divorcees second marriages in churches too

I don't understand why gays would want to get married in a operating church anyway.

So I am fine with Churches not allowing but I think they should extend it to all cases against biblical teachings.
But I don't accept Churches/Christians denying them the legal right, as that affects taxation and all sorts of things so it is unfair. And secular societies should have laws based on fairness not religion. (I assume you agree since you have expressed opposition to sharia)

moses did say i will allow you to divorce but it is because of their hard hearts, the church does not do divorce ceremonies so it is a pointless thing to bring up, every church i have been to do there utmost to talk people round to staying together.

Sorry HF, but who cares what each thinks on such irrelevant matters on divorce, we are talking about many different Christian Churches/Sects trying to hold back equality, which is really odd when you look into the message of Jesus from the Gosples

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