Why are schools teaching young children, as young as four, cursive writing?

Today a letter came home with my daughter, that she has to practice handwriting - cursive handwriting, like this:




My problem is this; she is FOUR YEARS OLD, learning to read and write and add up small numbers. She's a clever and articulate child, she surpasses her milestones and most importantly she is happy.

Why does she need to practice writing her letters like something from the bygone past?

I bet the fucking bigwig Educational bod had this policy typed up using state of the art computers, not a cursive letter in sight!

Anyway here's a really good document backing up what I think

http://www.nha-handwriting.org.uk/NHA/media/Public/Downloads/Fully-cursive-writing-in-Reception.pdf


Anyone else think this is stupid?

I think it could be confusing for young children.
I don't know how kids are taught now but it was always capitals and small letters.....Aa..Bb..Cc surely that's enough.
Even when a child starts to practice joined up writing surely that's all they need to know.

I couldn't write that let alone a 4 year old!

How funny, there was a great talk on the radio the other day (here in Texas) about the uselessness of teaching kids cursive. Almost nobody uses it and it takes up a lot of precious educational time.

One lady said that if people think it's a beautiful cultural artifact that shouldn't be lost, they could always teach it in art classes.

eddie wrote:Today a letter came home with my daughter, that she has to practice handwriting - cursive handwriting, like this:




My problem is this; she is FOUR YEARS OLD, learning to read and write and add up small numbers. She's a clever and articulate child, she surpasses her milestones and most importantly she is happy.

Why does she need to practice writing her letters like something from the bygone past?

I bet the fucking bigwig Educational bod had this policy typed up using state of the art computers, not a cursive letter in sight!

Anyway here's a really good document backing up what I think

http://www.nha-handwriting.org.uk/NHA/media/Public/Downloads/Fully-cursive-writing-in-Reception.pdf


Anyone else think this is stupid?

My mother had the most amazing handwriting. It was beautiful, copperplate, and she'd been convent educated and learned to write like this from a very early age. I was taught handwriting too from an early age - I was reading books from four onwards, but I came from a generation that didn't really have any TV or computers during my early years. Good handwriting is a reflection of your education and breeding, like being able to hold a knife and fork properly and have good manners at table.

Children should, in my opinion, learn these social skills from an early age. I don't think it's stupid at all. I think going back to some old fashioned values and skills is a good thing. It didn't do whole generations any harm for hundreds of years, so why would it now?

Because the world is more interconnected and complicated today, and kids should spend more time on skills that have real-world value.

The world has changed, everything is typed and text in the modern world.
Learning to read and write properly is still important, but in decades to come I think  hand writing  will be a thing of the past.

When is the last time anyone here received or wrote a hand written letter?

Syl wrote:The world has changed, everything is typed and text in the modern world.
Learning to read and write properly is still important, but in decades to come I think  hand writing  will be a thing of the past.

When is the last time anyone here received or wrote a hand written letter?

Today. And it touched me so much more than a typed one. It's something personal and something to keep, and I thank God I have my mother's cards and letters all in her own hand.

Ben Reilly wrote:How funny, there was a great talk on the radio the other day (here in Texas) about the uselessness of teaching kids cursive. Almost nobody uses it and it takes up a lot of precious educational time.

One lady said that if people think it's a beautiful cultural artifact that shouldn't be lost, they could always teach it in art classes.

which is what they should do.

it is impractical and a waste fo precious teaching time.

Syl wrote:The world has changed, everything is typed and text in the modern world.
Learning to read and write properly is still important, but in decades to come I think  hand writing  will be a thing of the past.

When is the last time anyone here received or wrote a hand written letter?

I have miss lol.
If and when I get annoyed with a utility company or the council out comes pen and paper to complain::biggrin:::

Well I'm sorry but I won't be sitting there wasting time teaching my child to write letters with curly bits and swirly tops....shall I make her do it by candlelight too in a long white nightgown?
I'd rather spend time with her playing Crazy Chefs (my record is unmatched), or teaching her to read, or cooking with her or colouring in or listening to her waffle on about My Little Pony.

My son was left-handed and his writing is scruffy like mine is. His teachers used to say he should join up his writing - he was seven years old - and I said "Can you read it ok?" She said she could, so no problem then!
He was top of his class and this year, a year early, he just got an A in his statistics GSCE and he was the only boy in his year to get an A in science......Don't think they gave a fuck whether his C's were curly or his K's had a swirly bit.

eddie wrote:Well I'm sorry but I won't be sitting there wasting time teaching my child to write letters with curly bits and swirly tops....shall I make her do it by candlelight too in a long white nightgown?
I'd rather spend time with her playing Crazy Chefs (my record is unmatched), or teaching her to read, or cooking with her or colouring in or listening to her waffle on about My Little Pony.  

My son was left-handed and his writing is scruffy like mine is. His teachers used to say he should join up his writing - he was seven years old - and I said "Can you read it ok?" She said she could, so no problem then!
He was top of his class and this year, a year early, he just got an A in his statistics GSCE and he was the only boy in his year to get an A in science......Don't think they gave a fuck whether his C's were curly or his K's had a swirly bit.

Absolutely your choice. They're your kids. I'd rather not have my kids have to embarrass themselves later in life because they have handwriting like a toddler. But that's just me.

Hahahahahaha by the age of eleven they all write the same - my son joins up now of course (for speed) but he does it his way and it's legible.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:The world has changed, everything is typed and text in the modern world.
Learning to read and write properly is still important, but in decades to come I think  hand writing  will be a thing of the past.

When is the last time anyone here received or wrote a hand written letter?

Today.   And it touched me so much more than a typed one.    It's something personal and something to keep, and I thank God I have my mother's cards and letters all in her own hand.

Yes I understand the importance you place on your mums cards and letters, I'm the same with the ones I have written in my mums hand.
But.....todays and future generations have videos and other stuff to cherish that maybe we didn't have, hand writing is less important imo....like you say though it's a personal choice.

eddie wrote:Well I'm sorry but I won't be sitting there wasting time teaching my child to write letters with curly bits and swirly tops....shall I make her do it by candlelight too in a long white nightgown?
I'd rather spend time with her playing Crazy Chefs (my record is unmatched), or teaching her to read, or cooking with her or colouring in or listening to her waffle on about My Little Pony.  

My son was left-handed and his writing is scruffy like mine is. His teachers used to say he should join up his writing - he was seven years old - and I said "Can you read it ok?" She said she could, so no problem then!
He was top of his class and this year, a year early, he just got an A in his statistics GSCE and he was the only boy in his year to get an A in science......Don't think they gave a fuck whether his C's were curly or his K's had a swirly bit.

Sounds like your son is doing just fine without curls and swirls.
I was like you when my son was little. Every year we would have a 2 week holiday, with a week taken out of school...I figured he would learn more about life in the week away than he would at school...specially as it was always at the tail end of term.

It's not allowed now though, so many kids go without a family holiday..

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Today.   And it touched me so much more than a typed one.    It's something personal and something to keep, and I thank God I have my mother's cards and letters all in her own hand.

Yes I understand the importance you place on your mums cards and letters, I'm the same with the ones I have written in my mums hand.
But.....todays and future generations have videos and other stuff to cherish that maybe we didn't have, hand writing is less important imo....like you say though it's a personal choice.

I remember some time ago, schools were trying to reintroduce the three R's. You know, some company's still insist you apply for jobs with a handwritten letter.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes I understand the importance you place on your mums cards and letters, I'm the same with the ones I have written in my mums hand.
But.....todays and future generations have videos and other stuff to cherish that maybe we didn't have, hand writing is less important imo....like you say though it's a personal choice.

I remember some time ago, schools were trying to reintroduce the three R's.   You know, some company's still insist you apply for jobs with a handwritten letter.  

Well writing is still important, it's just becoming less so.
Now many employers prefer applications to be filled in online, also college and universities accept online applications and registrations.

Every job I've looked at lately asks to apply online, which pisses me off as I've got a typed one.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Today.   And it touched me so much more than a typed one.    It's something personal and something to keep, and I thank God I have my mother's cards and letters all in her own hand.

Yes I understand the importance you place on your mums cards and letters, I'm the same with the ones I have written in my mums hand.
But.....todays and future generations have videos and other stuff to cherish that maybe we didn't have, hand writing is less important imo....like you say though it's a personal choice.

I remember some time ago, schools were trying to reintroduce the three R's.   You know, some company's still insist you apply for jobs with a handwritten letter.  

REALLY?

cause not in my working life, hand written in the bin now days any physical resume wont be accepted.
All online, submit your resume, fill in questionnaire, do the psychometrics tests etc

i cant see many business that still use hand written anything staying in business much longer (except Calligrapher)

Me neither Veya but that's not even the point.

At four years old, children are still learning letters, numbers and words to sound out in order to read. This just feels like something else that will confuse them.

Perhaps I'm wrong. I don't know.

I am getting the distinct impression that my quill pen, blotter, green eyeshade and black sleeve protectors are regarded as being somewhat passe.....

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I am getting the distinct impression that my quill pen, blotter, green eyeshade and black sleeve protectors are regarded as being somewhat passe.....

Haha not for you....you're a Lord!
Hope you're well btw?

eddie wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I am getting the distinct impression that my quill pen, blotter, green eyeshade and black sleeve protectors are regarded as being somewhat passe.....

Haha not for you....you're a Lord!
Hope you're well btw?

A lot better than a few weeks ago when I was carted off to A&E with a suspected heart attack, Eddie. It turned out just to be my dodgy heart valve reminding me that I should stop trying to act like a 50-year-old!

I really must stop chasing the chambermaids......

HoratioTarr wrote:
My mother had the most amazing handwriting.  It was beautiful, copperplate, and she'd been convent educated and learned to write like this from a very early age.  I was taught handwriting too from an early age - I was reading books from four onwards, but I came from a generation that didn't really have any TV or computers during my early years.   Good handwriting is a reflection of your education and breeding, like being able to hold a knife and fork properly and have good manners at table.    

Children should, in my opinion, learn these social skills from an early age.   I don't think it's stupid at all.  I think going back to some old fashioned values and skills is a good thing.    It didn't do whole generations any harm for hundreds of years, so why would it now?  

My dad's handwriting was so exceptionally beautiful it was bordering on calligraphy, except that he didn't need to make a special effort, like a professional calligraphist would  - - he produced neat, elegant work as a matter of routine everytime he wrote anything down.

None of us inherited it,   we could all write neatly if we wanted, but not as beautifully.

eddie wrote:Me neither Veya but that's not even the point.

At four years old, children are still learning letters, numbers and words to sound out in order to read.  This just feels like something else that will confuse them.

Perhaps I'm wrong. I don't know.

The fastest growth and development period for the human brain is the period roughly 0 -6 years. You get the greatest returns if you teach them as many varied skills as possible during this time. Don't worry about ''confusing'' them.

If you miss this precious window of opportunity you will never get it again. In older age groups they will never replicate this speed and efficiency of learning that is associated with the 0 - 6 year group alone.

This is why small kids master different languages so easily, but can't when they are adults.

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I remember some time ago, schools were trying to reintroduce the three R's.   You know, some company's still insist you apply for jobs with a handwritten letter.  

REALLY?

cause not in my working life, hand written in the bin now days any physical resume wont be accepted.
All online, submit your resume, fill in questionnaire, do the psychometrics tests etc  

i cant see many business that still use hand written anything staying in business much longer (except Calligrapher)

Yes, they still do this in the UK. It's somewhat old fashioned perhaps but my daughter, who is temping at the moment, had to write in her own hand to apply for a job only recently. It does seem odd, what with most things being computerised now. But there you go.

I think being able to write nicely shows personal pride...but that's just my opinion.

Of course the other advantage of teaching multiple skills early in life is that each skill uses a different part of the brain. The more varied the skills the better, in order to give every corner of the brain a work out. Use it or lose it.

I do feel sorry for those east European abandoned orphans left in their cots with no sensory stimuli. Whole swathes of what little brain they have just fade away.  

Jules wrote:Of course the other advantage of teaching multiple skills early in life is that each skill uses a different part of the brain. The more varied the skills the better, in order to give every corner of the brain a work out. Use it or lose it.

I do feel sorry for those east European abandoned orphans left in their cots with no sensory stimuli. Whole swathes of what little brain they have just fade away.  

I know times have changed, but surely children being in front of a computer screen or TV for the majority of their day has to be wrong. Handwriting is an art, it teaches discipline and patience and is quite therapeutic, like calligraphy. I used to love handwriting lessons. I liked English and creative writing too. I used to write short stories when I was a kid. i hated maths though.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

eddie wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I am getting the distinct impression that my quill pen, blotter, green eyeshade and black sleeve protectors are regarded as being somewhat passe.....

Haha not for you....you're a Lord!
Hope you're well btw?

A lot better than a few weeks ago when I was carted off to A&E with a suspected heart attack, Eddie. It turned out just to be my dodgy heart valve reminding me that I should stop trying to act like a 50-year-old!

I really must stop chasing the chambermaids......

Oh sorry to hear that! Hope you're taking it easy now.
And keep chasing the chambermaids - just go for slow ones....

eddie wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

A lot better than a few weeks ago when I was carted off to A&E with a suspected heart attack, Eddie. It turned out just to be my dodgy heart valve reminding me that I should stop trying to act like a 50-year-old!

I really must stop chasing the chambermaids......

Oh sorry to hear that! Hope you're taking it easy now.
And keep chasing the chambermaids - just go for slow ones....

...that have just eaten a T bone steak, dessert, booze and liquors.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Jules wrote:Of course the other advantage of teaching multiple skills early in life is that each skill uses a different part of the brain. The more varied the skills the better, in order to give every corner of the brain a work out. Use it or lose it.

I do feel sorry for those east European abandoned orphans left in their cots with no sensory stimuli. Whole swathes of what little brain they have just fade away.  

I know times have changed, but surely children being in front of a computer screen or TV for the majority of their day has to be wrong.   Handwriting is an art, it teaches discipline and patience and is quite therapeutic, like calligraphy.   I used to love handwriting lessons.   I liked English and creative writing too.  I used to write short stories when I was a kid.   i hated maths though.

Well of course!  Stylish handwriting is an artform in its own right, let alone the educational aspects.
My dad thought nothing of his great handwriting. To him it was just normal, and he had a normal staid job that had nowt to do with the arts.
But I know that he could have done artwork,  designing, etching, formal calligraphy, monograming etc with his talent if he'd wanted.

And as for parents who use the TV as their babysitter or give tiny kids  ipads to use - I cannot find the words.
Switch off their telly and lappy, your time is the most precious gift you can give them!

IF PEOPLE become too accustomed to using tablets and computers in the Infants years at school, and choose to relegate such 'old school' skills such as handwriting, basic maths, (as well as other basic sideline 'living skills' like map and compass use, or tying knots, or even cleaning up after yourself as a task proceeds..) to art classes and elective subjects;   then undoubtedly at some future time society will come to rue the day, when they find out that they can't even understand their spelling, sentence structure, or follow the reasoning behind some miscalculations...      

Got to agree with that!

Hmmm this has turned into "Should children be learning to write?"

It's not about writing - I've already stated that - it's about learning cursive writing, having to concentrate on joined up writing at four years old?

I just wish children could be taught to write in intelligible and grammatically acceptable English, regardless of whether the characters were in immaculate copperplate or having all the characteristics of a spider who had fallen into the remnants of a glass of Carlsberg Special Brew!

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I just wish children could be taught to write in intelligible and grammatically acceptable English, regardless of whether the characters were in immaculate copperplate or having all the characteristics of a spider who had fallen into the remnants of a glass of Carlsberg Special Brew!

Exactement!

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I am getting the distinct impression that my quill pen, blotter, green eyeshade and black sleeve protectors are regarded as being somewhat passe.....

actually that is Uber hipster

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

IF PEOPLE become too accustomed to using tablets and computers in the Infants years at school, and choose to relegate such 'old school' skills such as handwriting, basic maths, (as well as other basic sideline 'living skills' like map and compass use, or tying knots, or even cleaning up after yourself as a task proceeds..) to art classes and elective subjects;   then undoubtedly at some future time society will come to rue the day, when they find out that they can't even understand their spelling, sentence structure, or follow the reasoning behind some miscalculations...      

spelling and sentence structure don't help anything
they are relvant only to the language they are part of, thus not even used by most humans.

and tablets encourage handwriting.
plus Your handwritting would not be readable by most people through out most of history anyway.
any purpose of hand written is the same with electronicly written. except you can send electronically written stuff anywhere around the global at near ligthspeed while the paper mail has to burn tonnes of fossil fuels and take day to do the same.