The Orlando shooting

Just wanted to get my facts straight, so if anyone can answer these I'd be grateful.

Did The shooter act alone?
Did The shooter have a machine gun or loads of different guns and lots of ammo?
Did The shooter first, have a set-to in front of the club, with police?
How did The shooter get into the club?
Did The shooter start shooting straight away once inside the club?

Just answer each question for me if you can as I have some questions of my own.
I want someone else to clarify this for me.
Thanks

Is this the same subject as the other thread? Why do we need two?

Eddie, the only question I can answer, the gun was an AR15 the civilian version of the M1. This was not a Machine gun as it only fires in semi-auto mode, ie you have to press the trigger each time to fire a round.

To the best of my knowledge, he acted alone, had a semi-auto as nicko says, he shot a police officer on the door (I think, if I remember reading it right), I can only presume he started shooting immediately since many would have heard the first shots.

There's speculation that the music was so loud, many on the other side of the club didn't realize what was going on until many shots had been fired.

Raggamuffin wrote:Is this the same subject as the other thread? Why do we need two?

DITTO ~~~

by Ben_Reilly on Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:46 am
There's speculation that the music was so loud, many on the other side of the club didn't realize what was going on until many shots had been fired.

Loads of 'eye witness' interviews/statements on ALL OF OUR MEDIA stating that they thought the sounds were part of the bands last set music - after the 'Last Call for Alcohol' was announced; "that rapid fire 'POP-POP-POP' didn't sound like gun fire - not with all of the human voices singing - the band playing - far to serial" was what several club members stated!

Now we'll have 2 places to respond and try to keep the conversation straight  
Geeze, Eddie ...all of you questions were answered back in the original topic --- SERIOUSLY everyone of them!

nicko wrote:Eddie,   the only question I can answer,    the gun was an AR15 the civilian version of the M1.   This was not a Machine gun as it only fires in semi-auto mode,  ie you have to press the trigger each time to fire a round.  

So how much ammo would he have needed?

4EVER2 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Is this the same subject as the other thread? Why do we need two?

DITTO ~~~

by Ben_Reilly on Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:46 am
There's speculation that the music was so loud, many on the other side of the club didn't realize what was going on until many shots had been fired.

Loads of 'eye witness' interviews/statements on ALL OF OUR MEDIA stating that they thought the sounds were part of the bands last set music - after the 'Last Call for Alcohol' was announced; "that rapid fire 'POP-POP-POP' didn't sound like gun fire - not with all of the human voices singing - the band playing - far to serial" was what several club members stated!

Now we'll have 2 places to respond and try to keep the conversation straight  
Geeze, Eddie ...all of you questions were answered back in the original topic --- SERIOUSLY everyone of them!

I will merge the threads if need be, I just wanted the questions answered here as I don't understand the media stories.
Thanks.

Oh eddie, please don't tell me you think this was a hoax ...

Eilzel wrote:To the best of my knowledge, he acted alone, had a semi-auto as nicko says, he shot a police officer on the door (I think, if I remember reading it right), I can only presume he started shooting immediately since many would have heard the first shots.

He was in an altercation with police outside - three if the media is correct - I just don't understand how he got away from them and into the club?

This might help, only published 15 mins ago:



ORLANDO, Fla. — More than 24 hours after a shooting rampage at a popular gay nightclub here, the police chief offered new details Monday about their confrontations with the gunman while other officials said that all but one of the 49 victims had been identified.
Dozens of bodies were removed overnight Monday from the nightclub, Pulse, and by early morning, 48 of the 49 victims had been identified, Mayor Buddy Dyer of Orlando said at a news conference, and the families of 26 victims had been notified.
At an early morning news conference, the police chief, John Mina, said police officers had three confrontations with the gunman, identified as Omar Mateen, who was killed by the police at the club early Sunday morning.

The first came when an off-duty officer who had been working at the nightclub responded to shots fired at about 2 a.m., Chief Mina said. Additional officers rushed to the scene, he said, and entered the nightclub where they engaged in a gun battle with Mr. Mateen, forcing him to retreat to a bathroom where officers believed he had four to five hostages. About 15 to 20 people were in another bathroom.
“At that time we were able to save and rescue dozens and dozens of people and get them out of the club,” Chief Mina said. A SWAT team was called and took up positions in a bathroom across from where Mr. Mateen had holed up.
Negotiators also began to talk with Mr. Mateen, who Chief Mina described as “cool and calm.” “He really wasn’t asking for a whole lot, we were doing most of the asking.”
Mr. Mateen made statements that led police officers to think he was going to begin killing more people, the chief said, and he called 911.

“He really wasn’t asking for a whole lot, we were doing most of the asking,” Chief Mina said.
“Our negotiators were talking with him,” he said. “And there were no shots at that time but there was talk about bomb vests and explosives. There was an allegiance to the Islamic State.”
Chief Mina said Mr. Mateen’s talk of explosives spurred the police’s decision to start the rescue operation and try to breach the bathroom.
But an explosive placed on the wall did not penetrate completely, so officers used an armored vehicle to punch a hole about two feet off the ground, allowing hostages to flee. Mr. Mateen also came through the breach in the wall, Chief Mina said, and was killed in a shootout with police.
Asked whether some people could have been hit by friendly fire, the chief said it was part of the investigation.
Slide Show


Slide Show|15 Photos

Mass Shooting at Orlando Nightclub

Mass Shooting at Orlando Nightclub

CreditHilary Swift for The New York Times

At hospitals and gathering spots nearby, relatives and friends of the clubgoers who remained unaccounted for began to lose hope that their loved ones had somehow survived the mass shooting. And those who had already learned that their loved ones had died began to plan for funerals.
“I cannot imagine being one of the parents or knowing your loved one may be among the deceased and waiting to find out,” Mr. Dyer said. The authorities adjusted the death toll on Monday, saying that the 50 people killed included the gunman. Orlando Health, which has a network of medical facilities in the area, said 43 victims remained in the hospital, including six who would undergo operations on Monday.
Investigators continued on Monday morning to scour the crime scene for evidence and piece together the gunman’s motive. Thirty victim witness specialists and crime reconstruction experts were on the scene processing as much evidence as possible, F.B.I. officials said.
Mr. Mateen’s father, Seddique Mir Mateen, posted a video on his Facebook page early on Monday in which he expressed regret and confusion about why his son had carried out the mass killing.


 Orlando Nightclub Shooting By REUTERS 1:15   Orlando Suspect Was Known to F.B.I.  
Video

Orlando Suspect Was Known to F.B.I.

Law enforcement officials said the suspect in the attack on an Orlando nightclub on Sunday had been monitored for possible terrorist ties, but was still legally able to buy guns.


“I don’t know what caused this,” said Mr. Mateen, speaking in Dari, a language spoken in Afghanistan. “I did not know and did not understand that he has anger in his heart.”
“My son, Omar Mateen, was a very good boy, an educated boy, who had a child and a wife, very respectful of his parents,” he said.
At Monday’s news conference, A. Lee Bentley, the United States attorney for Central Florida, said the investigators had collected a large amount of electronic and criminal evidence and were trying to determine whether Mr. Mateen acted alone.
“If anyone else was involved in this crime,” Mr. Bentley said, “they will be prosecuted.”
The attacker, a 29-year-old who was born in New York, turned what had been a celebratory night of dancing to salsa and merengue music at the crowded Pulse nightclub into a panicked scene of unimaginable slaughter, the floors slicked with blood, the dead and the wounded piled atop one another. Terrified people poured onto the darkened streets of the surrounding neighborhood, some carried wounded victims to safety and police vehicles were pressed into service as makeshift ambulances to rush people to hospitals.

Graphic

What Happened Inside the Orlando Nightclub

Accounts of what happened from officials and witnesses.


OPEN Graphic  

Joel Figueroa and his friends “were dancing by the hip-hop area when I heard shots, bam, bam, bam,” he said, adding, “Everybody was screaming and running toward the front door.”
It was the worst act of terrorism on American soil since Sept. 11, 2001, and the deadliest attack on a gay target in the nation’s history, though officials said it was not clear whether some victims had been accidentally shot by law enforcement officers.
Gov. Rick Scott of Florida said on Monday that he had asked President Obama to issue a federal emergency declaration for his state.
“Yesterday’s terror attack was an attack on our state and entire nation,” Mr. Scott said in a statement. “This morning, I have asked President Obama to declare an emergency so that the full resources of the federal government can be made available for all those impacted by this horrific massacre.”


Orlando
FLORIDA
408
Orlando Regional Medical Center
441
Site of shooting
Pulse nightclub
Conway
527
4
Edgewood
Oak Ridge
2 Miles


By The New York Times

In a letter to Mr. Obama, Mr. Scott sought two forms of federal aid: “provision of health and safety measures,” as well as “management, control and reduction of immediate threats to public health and safety.” An emergency declaration by Mr. Obama would give Florida up to $5 million in initial federal funding.
The toll is larger than the number of murders in Orlando over the previous three years. Of an estimated 320 people in the club, nearly one-third were shot. The casualties far exceeded those in the 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech, where 32 people were killed, and the 2012 shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., where 26 people died.
“In the face of hate and violence, we will love one another,” Mr. Obama said in a special address from the White House. “We will not give in to fear or turn against each other. Instead, we will stand united as Americans to protect our people and defend our nation, and to take action against those who threaten us.”
As he had done after several previous mass shootings, the president said the shooting demonstrated the need for what he called “common sense” gun measures.
Photo


A member of the Orange County sheriff’s department at the scene of a shooting in Orlando, Fla., on Sunday.  Credit Phelan M. Ebenhack/Associated Press  
“This massacre is therefore a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school or a house of worship or a movie theater or a nightclub,” Mr. Obama said. “We have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. To actively do nothing is a decision as well.”
The shooting quickly made its way into the presidential campaign. Donald J. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, who has accused Mr. Obama of weakness on radical Islam and has called for barring Muslim immigrants, suggested on Twitter that the president should resign.
“Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism,” he wrote. “I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!”
Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, released a statement saying: “We need to redouble our efforts to defend our country from threats at home and abroad. That means defeating international terror groups, working with allies and partners to go after them wherever they are, countering their attempts to recruit people here and everywhere, and hardening our defenses at home.”
Photo


Police officers in Orlando, Fla., directing people away from a nightclub where a gunman opened fire early Sunday.  Credit Phelan M. Ebenhack/Associated Press  
Fears of violence led to heightened security at lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender events and gathering places around the country. Law enforcement officials in Santa Monica, Calif., confirmed the arrest on Sunday of a heavily armed man who said he was in the area for West Hollywood’s gay pride parade. The authorities, however, said they did not know of any connection between the California arrest and the Orlando shooting.
The F.B.I. investigated Mr. Mateen in 2013 when he made comments to co-workers suggesting he had terrorist ties, and again the next year, for possible connections to Moner Mohammad Abusalha, an American who became a suicide bomber in Syria, said Ronald Hopper, an assistant agent in charge of the bureau’s Tampa Division. But each time, the F.B.I. found no solid evidence that Mr. Mateen had any real connection to terrorism or had broken any laws.
Mr. Mateen, who lived in Fort Pierce, Fla., was able to continue working as a security guard with the security firm G4S, where he had worked since 2007, and he was able to buy guns. The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Mr. Mateen had legally bought a long gun and a pistol in the past week or two, though it was not clear whether those were the weapons used in the assault, which officials described as a handgun and an AR-15 type of assault rifle.
A former co-worker, Daniel Gilroy, said Mr. Mateen had talked often about killing people and had voiced hatred of gays, blacks, women and Jews.

Mass Shootings in the U.S.

This partial list dates to 2007, the year of what used to be the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.




Hours later, the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, claimed responsibility in a statement released over an encrypted phone app used by the group. It stated that the attack “was carried out by an Islamic State fighter,” according to a transcript provided by the SITE Intelligence Group, which tracks jihadist propaganda.
But officials cautioned that even if Mr. Mateen, who court records show was briefly married and then divorced, was inspired by the group, there was no indication that it had trained or instructed him, or had any direct connection with him. Some other terrorist attackers have been “self-radicalized,” including the pair who killed 14 people in December in San Bernardino, Calif., who also proclaimed allegiance to the Islamic State, but apparently had no contact with the group.
The Islamic State has encouraged “lone wolf” attacks in the West, a point reinforced recently by a group spokesman, Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, in his annual speech just before the holy month of Ramadan. In past years, the Islamic State and Al Qaeda increased attacks during Ramadan.
American Muslim groups condemned the shooting. “The Muslim community joins our fellow Americans in repudiating anyone or any group that would claim to justify or excuse such an appalling act of violence,” said Rasha Mubarak, the Orlando regional coordinator of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-shooting.html

I don't understand how he could kill 50 with a semi-auto rifle, I think the magazine holds approx 15 rounds? So after the mag was empty he would have to change to another, and after that another then another,

That is saying every shot killed some one and every shot was fatal.
I don't buy it!

nicko wrote:I don't understand how he could kill 50 with a semi-auto rifle,  I think the magazine holds approx 15 rounds?   So after the mag was empty he would have to change to another, and after that another then another,  

That is saying every shot killed some one and every shot was fatal.
I don't buy it!

What don't you buy?  That he did i?  Or that he was helped by nefarious black helicopters?

The Armalite (AR) 15 can be purchased with extra clips.  It takes but a second to switch out a clip.  I would think it's obvious that he pre-loaded clips and had them handy during the rampage.  You of all people should know that, nicko.

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:I don't understand how he could kill 50 with a semi-auto rifle,  I think the magazine holds approx 15 rounds?   So after the mag was empty he would have to change to another, and after that another then another,  

That is saying every shot killed some one and every shot was fatal.
I don't buy it!

What don't you buy?  That he did it?  Or that he was helped by nefarious black helicopters?

The Armalite (AR) 15 can be purchased with extra clips.  It takes but a second to switch out a clip.  I would think it's obvious that he pre-loaded clips and had them handy during the rampage.  You of all people should know that, nicko.

Given that he's been 'fabricating his ISIS - terrorist ties' since 2009 and his profession was a 'Security Guard' ...it's highly likely that his 'wanna be world' of Bad-Ass Inc. he was well practiced and well dressed for his part in this vile scheme he'd planned out.

Mr. Mateen, who lived in Fort Pierce, Fla., was able to continue working as a security guard with the security firm G4S, where he had worked since 2007, and he was able to buy guns.

This nut-job was delusional but just crackers enough to be self-trained and deadly!

See self proclaimed medical professionals already classifying the terrorist as a nut job.
Like I keep saying this is what happens, anything to divert away from the true cause of the problem.
Again within religion, and its happened for over 2,000 years, they have killed people thinking those they killed the heretics, apostates etc were the nutters and that they were good people. This is what people fail to grasp about a monotheist faith system based on absolute morals, which uses fear of an eternal punishement

No doubt religion is one contributor to the problem...as are many alternatives. The genus above religion is 'ideology'. There are many different ideological systems...religious, nationalist, racist, political, economic, etc.

Mateen seems to have had a montage of affiliations.

Original Quill wrote:No doubt religion is one contributor to the problem...as are many alternatives.  The genus above religion is 'ideology'.  There are many different ideological systems...religious, nationalist, racist, political, economic, etc.

Mateen seems to have had a montage of affiliations.

Yes and the monothiest religions are the mother load of ideologies, that cover and endorse, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, racism, discrimination, prejudice, persecution, genocide etc.
Yes his affiliation was islam and again ISIS are the most literal readers of islamic text.

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Original Quill wrote:No doubt religion is one contributor to the problem...as are many alternatives.  The genus above religion is 'ideology'.  There are many different ideological systems...religious, nationalist, racist, political, economic, etc.

Mateen seems to have had a montage of affiliations.

Yes and the monothiest religions are the mother load of ideologies, that cover and endorse, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, racism, discrimination, prejudice, persecution, genocide etc.
Yes his affiliation was islam and again ISIS are the most literal readers of islamic text.

Man creates religion > Man puts bigoted notions into religion > Didge blames religion for man's bigoted notions >

nicko wrote:I don't understand how he could kill 50 with a semi-auto rifle,  I think the magazine holds approx 15 rounds?   So after the mag was empty he would have to change to another, and after that another then another,  

That is saying every shot killed some one and every shot was fatal.
I don't buy it!

Couldn't one bullet kill more than one person?

It could, if it was a heaver calibre, but even then in the time taken to fire and reload some one would have noticed what was happening.

I think the gun was firing on full automatic to have killed that many In such a short time.

They have either got the description of the gun wrong or, if not, the gun had been altered to fire on full auto.

nicko wrote:It could,  if it was a heaver calibre,   but even then in the time taken to fire and reload some one would have noticed what was happening.

I think the gun was firing on full automatic to have killed that many In such a short time.  

They have either got the description of the gun wrong or, if not,   the gun had been altered to fire on full auto.  

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

nicko wrote:It could,  if it was a heaver calibre,   but even then in the time taken to fire and reload some one would have noticed what was happening.

I think the gun was firing on full automatic to have killed that many In such a short time.  

They have either got the description of the gun wrong or, if not,   the gun had been altered to fire on full auto.  

Thank you Nicko. These are the little details no one ever questions but one of my first questions.
People will say "it could be this or that" but we will never find out.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

nicko wrote:It could,  if it was a heaver calibre,   but even then in the time taken to fire and reload some one would have noticed what was happening.

I think the gun was firing on full automatic to have killed that many In such a short time.  

They have either got the description of the gun wrong or, if not,   the gun had been altered to fire on full auto.  

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

It took the police THREE HOURS to find him/catch him/kill him?

He was walking around shooting for three hours??? Is that what you're saying?

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

It took the police THREE HOURS to find him/catch him/kill him?

He was walking around shooting for three hours??? Is that what you're saying?

Read Sassy's very informative link - that's the best time line {with images/blue prints of the club} and WTH actually went down from the first shots fired at those uniformed police officers to the methods used to bust into the back wall by the swat team! 

READ and what you seek you shall find!

He was holding hostages, and police thought he had a bomb.

Ben_Reilly wrote:He was holding hostages, and police thought he had a bomb.

Really?

More and more gets added on.

4EVER2 wrote:

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

It took the police THREE HOURS to find him/catch him/kill him?

He was walking around shooting for three hours??? Is that what you're saying?

Read Sassy's very informative link - that's the best time line {with images/blue prints of the club} and WTH actually went down from the first shots fired at those uniformed police officers to the methods used to bust into the back wall by the swat team! 

READ and what you seek you shall find!

Thanks. I'm just asking Ben though - becasue he will provide me a link to a story that will tell me that part particularly - if he remembers where he read it.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:


Yes and the monothiest religions are the mother load of ideologies, that cover and endorse, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, racism, discrimination, prejudice, persecution, genocide etc.
Yes his affiliation was islam and again ISIS are the most literal readers of islamic text.

Man creates religion > Man puts bigoted notions into religion > Didge blames religion for man's bigoted notions >

Ben is an idiot
As neither of us can prove that a God does not exist.
The God of the Bible or Quran could actually exist, though we would view this more as the devil.
The point is people believe it ios the word of God and fear eternal life in hell
Has that part sunk into that pea brain of yours yet?

eddie wrote:Just wanted to get my facts straight, so if anyone can answer these I'd be grateful.

Did The shooter act alone?
Did The shooter have a machine gun or loads of different guns and lots of ammo?
Did The shooter first, have a set-to in front of the club, with police?
How did The shooter get into the club?
Did The shooter start shooting straight away once inside the club?

Just answer each question for me if you can as I have some questions of my own.
I want someone else to clarify this for me.
Thanks

A imple answer to your questions

Ask the 50 odd people wounded
Those not wounded for your answers

Why would I do that?

Are you going to "ask holecaust victims" when you ask questions about Germany in a thread you start on the Second World War?

Your post makes no sense.

eddie wrote:Why would I do that?

Are you going to "ask holecaust victims" when you ask questions about Germany in a thread you start on the Second World War?

Your post makes no sense.

Why would you ask first hand witnesses?

I interviewed people who had been soldiers in WW2, German, American, British, French, japanese, I also interviewed holocaust survivors whilst studying

It makes perfect sense when you talk to people who went through these events

I don't want to know what happened from the victims' point of view though Didge.
I'm under no illusion that people were shot.

I want to understand why I have read so many conflicting accounts and why some stories don't make sense.

eddie wrote:I don't want to know what happened from the victims' point of view though Didge.
I'm under no illusion that people were shot.

I want to understand why I have read so many conflicting accounts and why some stories don't make sense.

Well because in the aftermath of such a tragic event you will always get conflicting accounts, as most of the views coming in are never confirmed, they are based off what people claim to news reporters etc.
It always take time to understand what has happened, just as it does in every crime.
Do you remember the Iranian embassy siege at all?

"Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."

Three hours???

That seems simply incredulous.

Doesn't anyone else think that is literally putting those people to death?

eddie wrote:"Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."

Three hours???

That seems simply incredulous.

Doesn't anyone else think that is literally putting those people to death?

Whjat is wrong with 3 hours?

You need to reason your point as to why you think its incredulous, not some whackadoodle view claimed off the internet.

I am sure the Police ended up shooting some of the victims in friendly fire also, as will eventually come out and I am sure the actions of the Police contributed to some of the deaths.

That is being investigated, but I fail to see what point you are making when you have over 50 people wounded who will tell you exactly what happened, again why not read their stories instead some dickhead loons off the internet who will claim its a red flag

It's 'false flag' and that's not what I'm talking about.

Three hours is a bloody long time to take, yes.

eddie wrote:"Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."

Three hours???

That seems simply incredulous.

Doesn't anyone else think that is literally putting those people to death?

   Hmmm, SMH ...since I don't view my crime scenes {in the country} in a comparison from the shows that I DO NOT WATCH on TV; I can't quite grasp your confusion as to the method and the well written time line {that you've neglected to read for whatever reasons}   

A dark night club - chaos - who knows how many shooters - what type of weapons - and you'd want them doing 'WHAT EXATLY'?  The SWAT Team was processing all of the information as rapidly as they could, plus talking/negotiating with the one man on a phone line!
 
But keep asking for bits & pieces when the entire detail is back up there in chronological order with pretty photos too or keep answering Didgey-dooers derailing utter BS about WWI & WWII comparisons as if that will provide you what you seek      Now both topics have gone into the TWILGHT ZONE ...great plan!

eddie wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

It took the police THREE HOURS to find him/catch him/kill him?

He was walking around shooting for three hours??? Is that what you're saying?

Read Sassy's very informative link - that's the best time line {with images/blue prints of the club} and WTH actually went down from the first shots fired at those uniformed police officers to the methods used to bust into the back wall by the swat team! 

READ and what you seek you shall find!

Thanks.  I'm just asking Ben though - becasue he will provide me a link to a story that will tell me that part particularly - if he remembers where he read it.

Well, one of the problems with the media when things like this happen is that outlets don't think to make a clearly marked overview story that gathers all pertinent facts; they just keep running story after story about different aspects of the event. So, I've found it's helpful to check the Wikipedia entries on events like this, since they're pulling everything together into a start-to-finish narrative.

eddie wrote:"Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."

Three hours???

That seems simply incredulous.

Doesn't anyone else think that is literally putting those people to death?

You've surely heard of hostage situations and bomb threats that lasted hours. This was both.

eddie wrote:It's 'false flag' and that's not what I'm talking about.

Three hours is a bloody long time to take, yes.

You keep saying its a long time

How long was the iranian Embassy siege?

In fact thie seieg was actually a very short time that they acted off, as again you are failig to reason why you think its long.

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:


Yes and the monothiest religions are the mother load of ideologies, that cover and endorse, slavery, misogyny, homophobia, racism, discrimination, prejudice, persecution, genocide etc.
Yes his affiliation was islam and again ISIS are the most literal readers of islamic text.

Man creates religion > Man puts bigoted notions into religion > Didge blames religion for man's bigoted notions >

Ben is an idiot
As neither of us can prove that a God does not exist.
The God of the Bible or Quran could actually exist, though we would view this more as the devil.
The point is people believe it ios the word of God and fear eternal life in hell
Has that part sunk into that pea brain of yours yet?

So now you're trying to prove me wrong by arguing that Islam could be the root of terrorist attacks because there's a chance that Allah is real?!

For. Fuck's. Sake.

4EVER2 wrote:

eddie wrote:"Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."

Three hours???

That seems simply incredulous.

Doesn't anyone else think that is literally putting those people to death?

   Hmmm, SMH ...since I don't view my crime scenes {in the country} in a comparison from the shows that I DO NOT WATCH on TV; I can't quite grasp your confusion as to the method and the well written time line {that you've neglected to read for whatever reasons}   

A dark night club - chaos - who knows how many shooters - what type of weapons - and you'd want them doing 'WHAT EXATLY'?  The SWAT Team was processing all of the information as rapidly as they could, plus talking/negotiating with the one man on a phone line!
 
But keep asking for bits & pieces when the entire detail is back up there in chronological order with pretty photos too or keep answering Didgey-dooers derailing utter BS about WWI & WWII comparisons as if that will provide you what you seek      Now both topics have gone into the TWILGHT ZONE ...great plan!

Thanks but if you are getting tired of me being so tiresome, may I suggest you don't click on this thread and stick to just the one?

Ben has started another one though..... you could always moan on there?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:



Ben is an idiot
As neither of us can prove that a God does not exist.
The God of the Bible or Quran could actually exist, though we would view this more as the devil.
The point is people believe it ios the word of God and fear eternal life in hell
Has that part sunk into that pea brain of yours yet?

So now you're trying to prove me wrong by arguing that Islam could be the root of terrorist attacks because there's a chance that Allah is real?!

For. Fuck's. Sake.

No i am proving you wrong, by the fact 1.5 billion people believe allah exist, which is what matters.
It does not matter whether you or I think he does not exist.
It matters to those who believe they will suffer an eternity unless they follow some made up commands in a book.
Again none of us can prove a God exists or not, can you?
Again what the fuck do you fail to understand how and why throughout the Muslim world we see imans preach to act against Homosexuals, Jews, the west etc?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

The ordeal lasted about 3 hours, he had plenty of time to kill that many people.

It took the police THREE HOURS to find him/catch him/kill him?

He was walking around shooting for three hours??? Is that what you're saying?

Read Sassy's very informative link - that's the best time line {with images/blue prints of the club} and WTH actually went down from the first shots fired at those uniformed police officers to the methods used to bust into the back wall by the swat team! 

READ and what you seek you shall find!

Thanks.  I'm just asking Ben though - becasue he will provide me a link to a story that will tell me that part particularly - if he remembers where he read it.

Well, one of the problems with the media when things like this happen is that outlets don't think to make a clearly marked overview story that gathers all pertinent facts; they just keep running story after story about different aspects of the event. So, I've found it's helpful to check the Wikipedia entries on events like this, since they're pulling everything together into a start-to-finish narrative.

In a nutshell. That's it.

And can you tell me why this is allowed to happen?
Are the media adding extra stuff on?

Or is it the media that is being told different stories? And why is it sometimes days later? Always different accounts - it's too fishy.

You see why I don't trust them.

Seriously 2000 years of this shit and still idiots are claiming religion has nothing to do with the violence

i suggest some on here get their heads out of he sands and actually read some history, because its littered with religious wars and religious reasons behind much of the violence

For fuck sake

eddie wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:
   Hmmm, SMH ...since I don't view my crime scenes {in the country} in a comparison from the shows that I DO NOT WATCH on TV; I can't quite grasp your confusion as to the method and the well written time line {that you've neglected to read for whatever reasons}   

A dark night club - chaos - who knows how many shooters - what type of weapons - and you'd want them doing 'WHAT EXATLY'?  The SWAT Team was processing all of the information as rapidly as they could, plus talking/negotiating with the one man on a phone line!
 
But keep asking for bits & pieces when the entire detail is back up there in chronological order with pretty photos too or keep answering Didgey-dooers derailing utter BS about WWI & WWII comparisons as if that will provide you what you seek      Now both topics have gone into the TWILGHT ZONE ...great plan!

Thanks but if you are getting tired of me being so tiresome, may I suggest you don't click on this thread and stick  to just the one?

Ben has started another one though..... you could always moan on there?

Reading ...defiantly not your strong suit; you'd mean this one that 'LURKER' started  > http://www.newsfixboard.com/t16536-the-forgotten-children-killed-in-the-orlando-shooting 

No, your not 'TIRESOME' ...you are pretty much SPOT ON for the method of being obtuse and here we now have 2 identical topics that Didgey-dooer can spread his vile hate and derail the topic and you allow it! 
Well Done~~~

I meant this one:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t16530-man-arrested-with-arsenal-near-los-angeles-gay-pride-event#311459

Which is a sub-topic of the Orlando shooting one.

As to the rest of your post. Cluck cluck little red hen

Paul Ettinger wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:



Ben is an idiot
As neither of us can prove that a God does not exist.
The God of the Bible or Quran could actually exist, though we would view this more as the devil.
The point is people believe it ios the word of God and fear eternal life in hell
Has that part sunk into that pea brain of yours yet?

So now you're trying to prove me wrong by arguing that Islam could be the root of terrorist attacks because there's a chance that Allah is real?!

For. Fuck's. Sake.

No i am proving you wrong, by the fact 1.5 billion people believe allah exist, which is what matters.
It does not matter whether you or I think he does not exist.
It matters to those who believe they will suffer an eternity unless they follow some made up commands in a book.
Again none of us can prove a God exists or not, can you?
Again what the fuck do you fail to understand how and why throughout the Muslim world we see imans preach to act against Homosexuals, Jews, the west etc?

Again, people don't need religion to be bigoted -- any more than they need religion to be good. Since religions are invented by people, the inventors of religions put those beliefs in there, so they, the inventors, must have already believed them.

If you remove religion from the equation, people are still going to be bigots. They'll find something else to justify their beliefs, and they will go on trying to prove to the rest of us that they're right and teaching their beliefs to anyone who will listen. Just like other people would still be decent people without religion.

A good way to illustrate this is to look at the doctrine of white supremacy as if it was a religion. White supremacists often don't rely on religious teachings to justify their beliefs. Instead, they invent fake "scientific" reasons to justify their beliefs.

If you think about it, dreaming up a fake scientific reason to hate black people is the same thing as dreaming up a fake god that hates black people.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Paul Ettinger wrote:



No i am proving you wrong, by the fact 1.5 billion people believe allah exist, which is what matters.
It does not matter whether you or I think he does not exist.
It matters to those who believe they will suffer an eternity unless they follow some made up commands in a book.
Again none of us can prove a God exists or not, can you?
Again what the fuck do you fail to understand how and why throughout the Muslim world we see imans preach to act against Homosexuals, Jews, the west etc?

Again, people don't need religion to be bigoted -- any more than they need religion to be good. Since religions are invented by people, the inventors of religions put those beliefs in there, so they, the inventors, must have already believed them.

If you remove religion from the equation, people are still going to be bigots. They'll find something else to justify their beliefs, and they will go on trying to prove to the rest of us that they're right and teaching their beliefs to anyone who will listen. Just like other people would still be decent people without religion.

A good way to illustrate this is to look at the doctrine of white supremacy as if it was a religion. White supremacists often don't rely on religious teachings to justify their beliefs. Instead, they invent fake "scientific" reasons to justify their beliefs.

If you think about it, dreaming up a fake scientific reason to hate black people is the same thing as dreaming up a fake god that hates black people.

1) No they do not need religion to be bigote, but there are many religious people who are bigoted.
They are bigoted because they have a thing called absolute morals, which means those morals cannot be questioned, if they literally believe

2) If you remove religion from the equation, you have what has happened over the last century, less bigots and far more progression.

3) A good way to illustrate this is the fact in the last 100 years or so, we have seen the power of the church fade with the rise of athiesm and secularism. That has seen women and homosexuals have rights, they never had before and this is because religion is fading in the west, where we come that much closer to equality to all within the law

Best you think about that and see how and why when religion declines, societies have improved for the better

nicko wrote:It could,  if it was a heaver calibre,   but even then in the time taken to fire and reload some one would have noticed what was happening.

I think the gun was firing on full automatic to have killed that many In such a short time.  

They have either got the description of the gun wrong or, if not,   the gun had been altered to fire on full auto.  

Our fathers and grandfathers fought wars with rifles that only held five rounds, hard to believe in today’s world dominated by 30 round magazines. Today 30 rounds is the norm but not the rule and Surefire has broken with tradition to give us 60 rounds in one magazines.

http://www.ammoland.com/2015/04/best-ar-15-rifle-magazines/#axzz4BVSvxA9N

60 round mags available, plus drum mags

semi auto or auto would make little difference, the deaths were over hours so not a short time.