Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:08 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-35643991
As is it this young lady does not have enough of a problem.

I hope she reports them.

I wish I knew how to put this on Twitter, Facebook and various places, I would do it like a shot.

Bleedin forunuz, cheeky bast****.

I hope the lads from Coventry go and make them an offer they cannot refuse.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:14 pm

*sigh*

It's about time that all staff who work in restaurants, cafes, shops, etc were told about the law relating to guide dogs. It needs to be included in induction training. It's nothing to do with foreigners - I bet loads of British people don't know the law either.

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:21 pm

I do not believe they did not know it was illegal to tell her to leave as she had a guide dog, the girl explained several times.

But the boys pay them a visit.

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:22 pm

Can someone please tell me how to put this on youtube, is it possible?.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:28 pm

Stormee wrote:I do not believe they did not know it was illegal to tell her to leave as she had a guide dog, the girl explained several times.

But the boys pay them a visit.

I think they thought it only applied to some businesses and not others. They seemed to be genuinely unaware of the law. I think it's assumed that everyone knows the law, but that's not necessarily the case.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:29 pm

Stormee wrote:Can someone please tell me how to put this on youtube, is it possible?.

It's already on there Stormee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa5_LmEr5UU

If you're a member, you can make a comment, but don't be too rude. Laughing

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:04 pm

I found this very intriguing; the young lady doing all of the talking was "FILMING" this event confused

Not to throw an accelerant upon this issue but how exactly would a 'BLIND PERSON KNOW WHERE TO TURN THE RECORDER AND FOCUS ON THE SPEAKERS FACE' Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 265384880

Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 265384880

Coventry restaurant turns away blind diner
23 February 2016 Last updated at 15:37 GMT
A blind woman was asked to leave a restaurant in Coventry, after being told she could not have her guide dog inside the building.
Holly Scott-Gardner, 22, filmed staff at PGR Restaurant in Coventry as they told her to go outside.
Despite the university student insisting it was illegal to turn her away, the staff refused service.
PGR Restaurant later said staff were unaware of the law around guide dogs.

Here in the USA, there's a sign at the door 'No Pets/Animals unless they are SERVICE DOGS' --- and these are mandatory for ALL public places that serve food & beverages.
Rather interesting that it's usually a sign that's placed on the INSIDE of the glass and it's not written in braille so - how exactly would a BLIND HUMAN know what the sign said? Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 2190311264

Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 2190311264

BTW - Stormee; did you notice the 'SHARE' icons under the video and small printed article: icons for email/FB/Twitter all you have to do is click on one of them and it'll open up your specific account to share with your FB/Twitter followers. Pretty easy-peasy and if the internet is working properly --- works very quickly as well. LOL

by nicko Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:18 pm

forever, you don't have to be totally blind to have a guide dog, you could have what is called "restricted vision" ie not able to see more than a couple of feet in front of you, or cloudy vision with the same effect.

there are several eye problems that would entitle you to a dog.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:22 pm

Very true Nicko. OH's daughter could have a guide dog but for some unbeknown reason won't, much as she loves animals and much as we try and persuade her. She is classed as blind but has peripheral vision. She is a football nut, but can only watch it by sitting sideways to the TV, up really close, although even then she can't completely follow the game. I really wish she would have a guide dog, would help her so much.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:33 pm

nicko wrote:forever, you don't have to be totally blind to have a guide dog, you could have what is called "restricted vision" ie not able to see more than a couple of feet in front of you, or cloudy vision with the same effect.

there are several eye problems that would entitle you to a dog.

Oh, to be sure --- it just struck me as a 'ODD' thing when the college student appeared to be manning the video/camera recorder/holding her service dog and carrying on a conversation all at the same time. The sight impaired people I know, carry their sensor guide stick as well --- since their service dog can't tell them 'be careful there's a step there' or a hole' or a bag of garbage right in front of you'!

I was just making a comment!

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:11 pm

NOT KNOWING the law is NO excuse for not following it

ignorance is no excuse

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Lord Foul wrote:NOT KNOWING the law is NO excuse for not following it

ignorance is no excuse

Good Point...but let's look at that statement in deeper clarity;
how would the 'STAFF' understand that their reactions were in VIOLATION when it's the responsibility to the Licensing Department that sold the business the certificate of occupancy/health certificate to serve food & beverages/guide lines for all of the city ordnances for legal posted laws & employment policies ---

You might think that there wasn't - " 'NO EXCUSE' for not following the law "...but if you aren't told what laws need to be followed Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 2190311264

how is a commercial/public business to know?
Granted - this happened in the UK, and I'm not privy to the procedure's that any business goes through in order to be allowed to open up for business over there. I'm well aware of the process for my state/county/local city --- but those same laws very from state to state & from country to county and from city to city --- it's rather insane and nothing written in stone either.

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:04 pm

aspca4ever wrote:I found this very intriguing; the young lady doing all of the talking was "FILMING" this event
Not to throw an accelerant upon this issue but how exactly would a 'BLIND PERSON KNOW WHERE TO TURN THE RECORDER AND FOCUS ON THE SPEAKERS FACE'

Coventry restaurant turns away blind diner
23 February 2016 Last updated at 15:37 GMT
A blind woman was asked to leave a restaurant in Coventry, after being told she could not have her guide dog inside the building.
Holly Scott-Gardner, 22, filmed staff at PGR Restaurant in Coventry as they told her to go outside.
Despite the university student insisting it was illegal to turn her away, the staff refused service.
PGR Restaurant later said staff were unaware of the law around guide dogs.

Here in the USA, there's a sign at the door 'No Pets/Animals unless they are SERVICE DOGS' --- and these are mandatory for ALL public places that serve food & beverages.
Rather interesting that it's usually a sign that's placed on the INSIDE of the glass and it's not written in braille so - how exactly would a BLIND HUMAN know what the sign said?

BTW - Stormee; did you notice the 'SHARE' icons under the video and small printed article: icons for email/FB/Twitter all you have to do is click on one of them and it'll open up your specific account to share with your FB/Twitter followers. Pretty easy-peasy and if the internet is working properly --- works very quickly as well. LOL

I did see them, thanks anyway.

I am NOT on any of the other sites.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:11 pm

Stormee stated >>> I did see them, thanks anyway.

I am NOT on any of the other sites.

OOOOOOH, that's the problem; you were hoping someone could 'SHARE' this article for you~~~OK, got it. LOL

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:47 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:NOT KNOWING the law is NO excuse for not following it

ignorance is no excuse

Good Point...but let's look at that statement in deeper clarity;
how would the 'STAFF' understand that their reactions were in VIOLATION when it's the responsibility to the Licensing Department that sold the business the certificate of occupancy/health certificate to serve food & beverages/guide lines for all of the city ordnances for legal posted laws & employment policies ---

You might think that there wasn't - " 'NO EXCUSE' for not following the law "...but if you aren't told what laws need to be followed how is a commercial/public business to know?
Granted - this happened in the UK, and I'm not privy to the procedure's that any business goes through in order to be allowed to open up for business over there. I'm well aware of the process for my state/county/local city --- but those same laws very from state to state & from country to county and from city to city --- it's rather insane and nothing written in stone either.

Well, they must be aware that there is such a thing as disability discrimination laws, after all, I bet they would soon be crying to the police if they were racially discriminated against, so no excuse for not knowing the framework is there...

They then only have to google " disability discrimination" and lo all the info they could need

just as

If I make a toy, i can google toy regulations...and there they all are available
If I make an electronic device, I can google "EMC" regulations ...and be fully informed
So, there really IS no "excuse"

one has to wonder if they have been so lax and careless about the hygiene regulations as well????????

over here it is the proprietor/owners responsibility to KNOW the laws, as required....not have them spoon fed to them, In other words, they should do their research before opening for business.....

Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 2190311264

No excuses please......

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:09 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:

Good Point...but let's look at that statement in deeper clarity;
how would the 'STAFF' understand that their reactions were in VIOLATION when it's the responsibility to the Licensing Department that sold the business the certificate of occupancy/health certificate to serve food & beverages/guide lines for all of the city ordnances for legal posted laws & employment policies ---

You might think that there wasn't - " 'NO EXCUSE' for not following the law "...but if you aren't told what laws need to be followed how is a commercial/public business to know?
Granted - this happened in the UK, and I'm not privy to the procedure's that any business goes through in order to be allowed to open up for business over there. I'm well aware of the process for my state/county/local city --- but those same laws very from state to state & from country to county and from city to city --- it's rather insane and nothing written in stone either.
Well, they must be aware that there is such a thing as disability discrimination laws, after all, I bet they would soon be crying to the police if they were racially discriminated against, so no excuse for not knowing the framework is there...

They then only have to google " disability discrimination" and lo all the info they could need

just as

If I make a toy, i can google toy regulations...and there they all are available
If I make an electronic device, I can google "EMC" regulations ...and be fully informed
So, there really IS no "excuse"

one has to wonder if they have been so lax and careless about the hygiene regulations as well????????

over here it is the proprietor/owners responsibility to KNOW the laws, as required....not have them spoon fed to them, In other words, they should do their research before opening for business.....

No excuses please......

Oh...I quite AGREE about 'what people should do' but the sad fact is we have so many Health Department Inspectors/guidelines/rules/federal & state regulations...just because PEOPLE DO NOT DO WHAT THEY SHOULD.

And about those 'TOYS'; have you ever seen the 'RECALL LIST' that is generated every year right before Christmas --- all of the toys that didn't meet the standard for 'choking hazards/lead paint/flammable material' or even the most recent --- Hoover Boards that are catching fire and burning homes down???

You well maybe a responsible human, and yet the majority of those other neardowells that share our air space seem to have a lower moral code and are sadly lazy and could give-a-sh*t about our health and well being!
But I do agree --- there shouldn't be ANY EXCUSE and yet I didn't get that the 2 staff members were OWNERS and were just following what they thought was correct!
NOW THEY KNOW DIFFERENTLY and I'm sure that that life lesson will live in infamy, don't you? LOL

by Syl Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:13 pm

The staff seemed genuinely ignorant of the law that states guide dogs are to be allowed in when accompanying a blind or sight impaired owner.

If they are ignorant of this law....which is pretty well publicised I wonder what other laws they are unaware of?

I would boycott the place if I was a local.

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:22 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
Well, they must be aware that there is such a thing as disability discrimination laws, after all, I bet they would soon be crying to the police if they were racially discriminated against, so no excuse for not knowing the framework is there...

They then only have to google " disability discrimination" and lo all the info they could need

just as

If I make a toy, i can google toy regulations...and there they all are available
If I make an electronic device, I can google "EMC" regulations ...and be fully informed
So, there really IS no "excuse"

one has to wonder if they have been so lax and careless about the hygiene regulations as well????????

over here it is the proprietor/owners responsibility to KNOW the laws, as required....not have them spoon fed to them, In other words, they should do their research before opening for business.....

No excuses please......
Oh...I quite AGREE about 'what people should do' but the sad fact is we have so many Health Department Inspectors/guidelines/rules/federal & state regulations...just because PEOPLE DO NOT DO WHAT THEY SHOULD.

And about those 'TOYS'; have you ever seen the 'RECALL LIST' that is generated every year right before Christmas --- all of the toys that didn't meet the standard for 'choking hazards/lead paint/flammable material' or even the most recent --- Hoover Boards that are catching fire and burning homes down???

Yeah and WHO'S toys are they (as in manufacturer.....) big business of course...the little craftsman maker is held rigidly to those specs....and the punishment (for the small guy) for any breach is draconian...the big guy pays pocket money fines.....Not to mention of course that the little guy has pride in his work

You well maybe a responsible human, and yet the majority of those other neardowells that share our air space seem to have a lower moral code and are sadly lazy and could give-a-sh*t about our health and well being!
But I do agree --- there shouldn't be ANY EXCUSE and yet I didn't get that the 2 staff members were OWNERS and were just following what they thought was correct!
NOW THEY KNOW DIFFERENTLY and I'm sure that that life lesson will live in infamy, don't you? LOL

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:25 pm

Syl wrote:The staff seemed genuinely ignorant of the law that states guide dogs are to be allowed in when accompanying a blind or sight impaired owner.

If they are ignorant of this law....which is pretty well publicised I wonder what other laws they are unaware of?

I would boycott the place if I was a local.

To true that --- and that's exactly what I was thinking; food safe temp. protocols/hand washing/cleanliness of kitchen prep areas etc., etc. etc.,
I was thinking: "I'll bet that this place wouldn't pass the CHEF RAMSEY standard for restaurant/bar & grill standards - EVER" Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 3633442240

Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 3633442240

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:28 pm

LordFoul replied >>> Yeah and WHO'S toys are they (as in manufacturer.....) big business of course...the little craftsman maker is held rigidly to those specs....and the punishment (for the small guy) for any breach is draconian...the big guy pays pocket money fines.....Not to mention of course that the little guy has pride in his work.

EXACTLY --- can't argue with that; I'm a 'HATE WALLY WORLD' human and I've boycotted their store francizes from the get-go!

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:35 pm

Syl wrote:The staff seemed genuinely ignorant of the law that states guide dogs are to be allowed in when accompanying a blind or sight impaired owner.

If they are ignorant of this law....which is pretty well publicised I wonder what other laws they are unaware of?

I would boycott the place if I was a local.

I think they were unaware of the law too. In a case like this, I think that a visit from whoever deals with this kind of thing is enough as they didn't appear to be maliciously excluding the dog and the woman.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:59 pm

The onus is on ANY business to know the laws it has to adhere to. And with one that is there to serve the public, then to know the laws about dealing with the public is paramount and it is simply not applicable to say they don't know. They servie food, would it be ok not to know the laws surrounding food hygiene? They have health and safety laws to protect the workers in the kitchen, would it be ok if they didn't know them? How about the fact they have to pay VAT, could they tell the Treasury they didn't know about it?

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:02 pm

sassy wrote:The onus is on ANY business to know the laws it has to adhere to. And with one that is there to serve the public, then to know the laws about dealing with the public is paramount and it is simply not applicable to say they don't know. They servie food, would it be ok not to know the laws surrounding food hygiene? They have health and safety laws to protect the workers in the kitchen, would it be ok if they didn't know them? How about the fact they have to pay VAT, could they tell the Treasury they didn't know about it?

Those things are pretty basic to running that kind of business though. The issue of guide dogs isn't really something that necessarily comes up very often.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:04 pm

It comes up in every single business that serves the public and allows the public in. No excuses at all.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:10 pm

sassy wrote:It comes up in every single business that serves the public and allows the public in. No excuses at all.

See that's where my confusion comes into play; don't the state officials hand out/sell those placards that have to be posted on the front of the business egress?
ie; cash only/no credit cards or checks/must have shoes & shirts/ADA bathroom access/We Reserve The Right To Refuse Anyone/No Smoking/No Pets Unless They Are Service Dogs ???

See here in the USA there are so many placards and general FYI for 'John Q Public' that it's often difficult to find the sign that tells you what hours the establishment is even OPEN for business! Lordy - Lordy! Mad

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:14 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
sassy wrote:It comes up in every single business that serves the public and allows the public in. No excuses at all.

See that's where my confusion comes into play; don't the state officials hand out/sell those placards that have to be posted on the front of the business egress?
ie; cash only/no credit cards or checks/must have shoes & shirts/ADA bathroom access/We Reserve The Right To Refuse Anyone/No Smoking/No Pets Unless They Are Service Dogs ???

See here in the USA there are so many placards and general FYI for 'John Q Public' that it's often difficult to find the sign that tells you what hours the establishment is even OPEN for business! Lordy - Lordy!

No 4ever, it is the law of the land, and when you open a business you are supposed to know the laws which cover what you are doing. Cash only and all the rest are not laws. No Smoking and Allowing Guide dogs in are laws. You wouldn't open a pub/bar without knowing the licencing laws and you don't open a cafe without knowing the laws that apply to opening one.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:22 pm

sassy wrote:
aspca4ever wrote:

See that's where my confusion comes into play; don't the state officials hand out/sell those placards that have to be posted on the front of the business egress?
ie; cash only/no credit cards or checks/must have shoes & shirts/ADA bathroom access/We Reserve The Right To Refuse Anyone/No Smoking/No Pets Unless They Are Service Dogs ???

See here in the USA there are so many placards and general FYI for 'John Q Public' that it's often difficult to find the sign that tells you what hours the establishment is even OPEN for business! Lordy - Lordy!
No 4ever, it is the law of the land, and when you open a business you are supposed to know the laws which cover what you are doing. Cash only and all the rest are not laws. No Smoking and Allowing Guide dogs in are laws. You wouldn't open a pub/bar without knowing the licencing laws and you don't open a cafe without knowing the laws that apply to opening one.

They're called 'Consumer Rights' over here; and yes we have to have a sign inside the eating/pub/bar & grill clearly stating "We Have The Right To Refuse To Serve Anyone" & "NO SHOE - NO SHIRT - NO SERVICE"...see some of our citizens are so drunk/drugged up and just lazy that they flip/flop their way into any place that sells food & beverage thinking it's ok to be ½ naked and barefoot too. Not a standard that any health department will allow! And yet any given summer month you'll see some 'good-ole-boy' swagger into a Quick Trip without his shirt on and barefooted too! UGH
We have Federal Laws/we have state regulations/we have health department regulations and we have local city ordinances that have to be placed and the ordinance # listed and it's quite interesting to see all of the total BS that has to be placed within open view for all of the patrons to READ... and they still don't GET IT!

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:25 pm

It is a bit odd that the owner didn't seem to know the law. Staff might not know it if they weren't told.

It looks like a really nice restaurant - properly run and quite large.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:28 pm

The other question is - was the dog properly identifiable as a guide dog?

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:28 pm

Before any laws on guide dogs I seem to recall they were welcome in establishments, pubs in particular.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:29 pm

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:36 pm

that means jack squat really ragga...
are you (or rather is he) trying to tell us he didnt know what guide dogs are???

what planet is he from?

by Syl Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phew...and breathe. Shocked

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:41 pm

Do you know what? I've been accused on this forum a few times of being a bit judgmental, a bit "black and white" if you like, but I think others are being quite judgmental in this case.

People are fallible and they make mistakes. For some reason, this chap didn't understand the law, and now he does. He's apologised and he's offered to make it up to the girl.

I guess that one thing I don't have much tolerance for is people over-egging the pudding or attention seeking, and if the girl doesn't graciously accept, I'll be calling her out for it.

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:45 pm

of course this misses a bigger point...you know "the ignorant foreigner"

who constantly "claims" to not know/not understand/decide to ignore anyway and claim ignorance of the law of the land

it ranges from something like this, to things far more serious...as rotherham and the like shows

by Syl Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:58 pm

On the other hand many Italian restaurants run and staffed by foreigners run like clockwork. cheers

by Victorismyhero Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:02 pm

true, however that doesnt mean there isnt a problem with this kind of issue.....

Girl With Guide Dog Told To Leave Restaurant 2190311264

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:12 pm

Stormee wrote:Can someone please tell me how to put this on youtube, is it possible?.

not really it is purposly locked for copyright purposes

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:18 pm

I'd have no sympathy for any business that did that.
there is no excuse accpetable for running a business and not knowing that.

by Major Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Do you know what? I've been accused on this forum a few times of being a bit judgmental, a bit "black and white" if you like, but I think others are being quite judgmental in this case.

People are fallible and they make mistakes. For some reason, this chap didn't understand the law, and now he does. He's apologised and he's offered to make it up to the girl.

I guess that one thing I don't have much tolerance for is people over-egging the pudding or attention seeking, and if the girl doesn't graciously accept, I'll be calling her out for it.

I would rather the girl make a case of this nasty incident, the poor mare has enough on her plate.

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