British air strikes in Syria still seen as 'clash of civilisations' by some UK Muslims, warns Michael Fallon

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Idiotic Muslim? Lol! 

If I'd said "idiotic Jew", you would have accused my of anti semitism and threatened to call the Police (like you did a few months ago). 

Once again your own words exposes your hypocrisy. 

I suggest you edit your post if you expect me to reply properly.

Thousands of Muslim clerics issue fatwa against evil Islamic State and other terror groups

THOUSANDS of Muslim clerics have passed a fatwa against savage terrorist organisations such as Islamic State, the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625619/Muslim-Fatwa-ISIS-Islamic-State-al-Qaeda-Taliban-Islam-Paris-Attacks-Daesh

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with this narrative is the that the west doesn't just kill ISIS, we may try to target them but we are notoriously bad at avoiding civilian casualties.
 
a reasonable part of the western Muslims concern about the bombing campaigns is that unfortunately it does seem that collateral damage is disproportionality Muslim. and Action speak louder than words, We say want to save them But we are willing to kill them Ourselves to kill ISIS.. can you see the blatant hypocrisy in our position. This Situation is further exasperated when you have RW morons spreading hate speech towards Muslims, which you do have in the UK.
 
I have joked about doing the same to RW extremist in Europe and the UK.. And None of you seem to keen to accept being potential collateral damage
 
Time to cut our loses, focus on home... ISIS will collapse under their own evil eventually anyway

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with this narrative is the that the west doesn't just kill ISIS, we may try to target them but we are notoriously bad at avoiding civilian casualties.
 
a reasonable part of the western Muslims concern about the bombing campaigns is that unfortunately it does seem that collateral damage is disproportionality Muslim. and Action speak louder than words, We say want to save them But we are willing to kill them Ourselves to kill ISIS.. can you see the blatant hypocrisy in our position. This Situation is further exasperated when you have RW morons spreading hate speech towards Muslims, which you do have in the UK.
 
I have joked about doing the same to RW extremist in Europe and the UK.. And None of you seem to keen to accept being potential collateral damage
 
Time to cut our loses, focus on home... ISIS will collapse under their own evil eventually anyway

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with this narrative is the that the west doesn't just kill ISIS, we may try to target them but we are notoriously bad at avoiding civilian casualties.
 
a reasonable part of the western Muslims concern about the bombing campaigns is that unfortunately it does seem that collateral damage is disproportionality Muslim. and Action speak louder than words, We say want to save them But we are willing to kill them Ourselves to kill ISIS.. can you see the blatant hypocrisy in our position. This Situation is further exasperated when you have RW morons spreading hate speech towards Muslims, which you do have in the UK.
 
I have joked about doing the same to RW extremist in Europe and the UK.. And None of you seem to keen to accept being potential collateral damage
 
Time to cut our loses, focus on home... ISIS will collapse under their own evil eventually anyway

You have them in Australia too. You always manage to include yourself in these discussions about Britain, so include Australia when you want to talk about negative things.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You have them in Australia too. You always manage to include yourself in these discussions about Britain, so include Australia when you want to talk about negative things.

no where near as many though
And I Personally shout them down with far more vehemence than i ever bother using towards a brit
You would know how restrained I am actually being towards RW Racist Brits.
IF we had a RW Racist Aussie on here


Basically we do a much better job of bopping them on the head when the pop up

veya_victaous wrote:Yes Raggs as said if you think i am racsit it means i am a doing the right thing

Ben_Reilly wrote:Has anybody done a survey to find out how many British who hate Muslims also consider the airstrikes a clash of civilizations? I bet there's a good number who do.

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Has anybody done a survey to find out how many British who hate Muslims also consider the airstrikes a clash of civilizations? I bet there's a good number who do.

If there is, then is that not down to a systematic failure of some within the Muslim community, that use poor narratives blaming the west and the people they live with, even though many marched against Iraq? How where a sizable number do not integrate. Where for years grooming gangs were covered up, being predominantly Muslim? How we have had imported FGM, honour killings and forced marriage, again predominantly within the Muslim community. Let alone terrorist attacks that has been successful and the numerous that have been thwarted. I do not Ben you tell me if any of that will have an impact on how people may then perceive Muslims differently?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:


If there is, then is that not down to a systematic failure of some within the Muslim community, that use poor narratives blaming the west and the people they live with, even though many marched against Iraq? How where a sizable number do not integrate. Where for years grooming gangs were covered up, being predominantly Muslim? How we have had imported FGM, honour killings and forced marriage, again predominantly within the Muslim community. Let alone terrorist attacks that has been successful and the numerous that have been thwarted. I do not Ben you tell me if any of that will have an impact on how people may then perceive Muslims differently?

I'm sure the people who believe our Western civilization needs to wipe out Islamic civilization blame the Muslims in general for their attitude. But what's really going on is that a small violent minority of Muslims' actions have convinced British, who were probably already inclined toward bigotry, to make every adherent of the religion out to be a terrorist.

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:


If there is, then is that not down to a systematic failure of some within the Muslim community, that use poor narratives blaming the west and the people they live with, even though many marched against Iraq? How where a sizable number do not integrate. Where for years grooming gangs were covered up, being predominantly Muslim? How we have had imported FGM, honour killings and forced marriage, again predominantly within the Muslim community. Let alone terrorist attacks that has been successful and the numerous that have been thwarted. I do not Ben you tell me if any of that will have an impact on how people may then perceive Muslims differently?

I'm sure the people who believe our Western civilization needs to wipe out Islamic civilization blame the Muslims in general for their attitude. But what's really going on is that a small violent minority of Muslims' actions have convinced British, who were probably already inclined toward bigotry, to make every adherent of the religion out to be a terrorist.

That failed to see all my points above, its not just terrorism, which you seem to think is the only reason, which whilst their was bigotry to the Irish due to the IRA, this is more than just terrorism, but ways of life that are odds with liberal values, to the point we have seen schools try to teach values that are inequality. So when people see this happened day after day, where hate preachers are allowed into this country spouting hate against homosexuals, its going to clash with the British society, which you seem to fail to grasp and it is appeasement from the left that wishes to deny these problems, which ends up pushing more and more people to the right. When there is glaring problems in the community they need to be tackled so that not all are blamed with the same brush but the inability and appeasement of the left when they tried to defend wrongs actually further ensures that does happen

They live on beasts only, and live like beasts. They have not progressed at all from the habits of pastoral living. ..This is a filthy people, wallowing in vice. Of all peoples it is the least instructed in the rudiments of the faith. They do not yet pay tithes or first fruits or contract marriages. They do not avoid incest.
- Giraldus Cambrensis/Gerald of Wales, The History and Topography of Ireland, 12th Century

How godly a deed it is to overthrow so wicked a race the world may judge: for my part I think there cannot be a greater sacrifice to God.
- Edward Barkley, describing how the forces of the Earl of Essex slaughtered the entire population of Rathlin Island, Co. Antrim, 1575

Marry those be the most barbaric and loathy conditions of any people (I think) under heaven...They do use all the beastly behaviour that may be, they oppress all men, they spoil as well the subject, as the enemy; they steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.
- Edmund Spenser, A View of the State of Ireland, 1596

And first I have to find fault with the abuse of language; that is, for the speaking of Irish among the English, which as it is unnatural that any people should love another's language more than their own, so it is very inconvenient and the cause of many other evils. ...It seemeth strange to me that the English should take more delight to speak that language than their own, whereas they should, methinks, rather take scorn to acquaint their tongues thereto. For it hath ever been the use of the conqueror to despise the language of the conquered and to force him by all means to learn his.
- A View of the State of Ireland

I have often said, and written, it is Famine which must consume [the Irish]; our swords and other endeavours work not that speedy effect which is expected for their overthrow.
- English Viceroy Arthur Chichester writing to Elizabeth I's chief advisor, Nov. 1601

The time hath been, when they lived like Barbarians, in woods, in bogs, and in desolate places, without politic law, or civil government, neither embracing religion, law or mutual love. That which is hateful to all the world besides is only beloved and embraced by the Irish, I mean civil wars and domestic dissensions .... the Cannibals, devourers of men's flesh, do learn to be fierce amongst themselves, but the Irish, without all respect, are even more cruel to their neighbours.
- Barnaby Rich, A New Description of Ireland, 1610

All wisdom advises us to keep this [Irish] kingdom as much subordinate and dependent on England as possible; and, holding them from manufacture of wool (which unless otherwise directed, I shall by all means discourage), and then enforcing them to fetch their cloth from England, how can they depart from us without nakedness and beggary?
- Lord Stafford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in a letter to King Charles I, 1634

Didge wrote:OMG, so Ben now thinks I am equating w=the terrorist attacks by the IRA during the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's to years where irish were treated in the UK during this time to English and British oppression in Ireland throughout history. Listen my mother is irish and not some weak 4th generation connection where you claim Irish descent from, I have more understanding about the oppression to the Irish than you will ever begin to understand and even worse you fail to understand the significance of the point made, trying to teach me history, not from your own knowledge but using someone else

Did you not grasp the point was on how the Irish were being treated in the Uk during the height of the IRA attacks?

For fuck sake

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:


If there is, then is that not down to a systematic failure of some within the Muslim community, that use poor narratives blaming the west and the people they live with, even though many marched against Iraq? How where a sizable number do not integrate. Where for years grooming gangs were covered up, being predominantly Muslim? How we have had imported FGM, honour killings and forced marriage, again predominantly within the Muslim community. Let alone terrorist attacks that has been successful and the numerous that have been thwarted. I do not Ben you tell me if any of that will have an impact on how people may then perceive Muslims differently?

I'm sure the people who believe our Western civilization needs to wipe out Islamic civilization blame the Muslims in general for their attitude. But what's really going on is that a small violent minority of Muslims' actions have convinced British, who were probably already inclined toward bigotry, to make every adherent of the religion out to be a terrorist.

That failed to see all my points above, its not just terrorism, which you seem to think is the only reason, which whilst their was bigotry to the Irish due to the IRA, this is more than just terrorism, but ways of life that are odds with liberal values, to the point we have seen schools try to teach values that are inequality. So when people see this happened day after day, where hate preachers are allowed into this country spouting hate against homosexuals, its going to clash with the British society, which you seem to fail to grasp and it is appeasement from the left that wishes to deny these problems, which ends up pushing more and more people to the right. When there is glaring problems in the community they need to be tackled so that not all are blamed with the same brush but the inability and appeasement of the left when they tried to defend wrongs actually further ensures that does happen

Now you're just trying to rewrite history, the British not only hated the IRA, but the Irish way of life and the Irish themselves.

They live on beasts only, and live like beasts. They have not progressed at all from the habits of pastoral living. ..This is a filthy people, wallowing in vice. Of all peoples it is the least instructed in the rudiments of the faith. They do not yet pay tithes or first fruits or contract marriages. They do not avoid incest.
- Giraldus Cambrensis/Gerald of Wales, The History and Topography of Ireland, 12th Century

How godly a deed it is to overthrow so wicked a race the world may judge: for my part I think there cannot be a greater sacrifice to God.
- Edward Barkley, describing how the forces of the Earl of Essex slaughtered the entire population of Rathlin Island, Co. Antrim, 1575

Marry those be the most barbaric and loathy conditions of any people (I think) under heaven...They do use all the beastly behaviour that may be, they oppress all men, they spoil as well the subject, as the enemy; they steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.
- Edmund Spenser, A View of the State of Ireland, 1596

And first I have to find fault with the abuse of language; that is, for the speaking of Irish among the English, which as it is unnatural that any people should love another's language more than their own, so it is very inconvenient and the cause of many other evils. ...It seemeth strange to me that the English should take more delight to speak that language than their own, whereas they should, methinks, rather take scorn to acquaint their tongues thereto. For it hath ever been the use of the conqueror to despise the language of the conquered and to force him by all means to learn his.
- A View of the State of Ireland

I have often said, and written, it is Famine which must consume [the Irish]; our swords and other endeavours work not that speedy effect which is expected for their overthrow.
- English Viceroy Arthur Chichester writing to Elizabeth I's chief advisor, Nov. 1601

The time hath been, when they lived like Barbarians, in woods, in bogs, and in desolate places, without politic law, or civil government, neither embracing religion, law or mutual love. That which is hateful to all the world besides is only beloved and embraced by the Irish, I mean civil wars and domestic dissensions .... the Cannibals, devourers of men's flesh, do learn to be fierce amongst themselves, but the Irish, without all respect, are even more cruel to their neighbours.
- Barnaby Rich, A New Description of Ireland, 1610

All wisdom advises us to keep this [Irish] kingdom as much subordinate and dependent on England as possible; and, holding them from manufacture of wool (which unless otherwise directed, I shall by all means discourage), and then enforcing them to fetch their cloth from England, how can they depart from us without nakedness and beggary?
- Lord Stafford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in a letter to King Charles I, 1634

More vile quotes here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/history/22143-anti-irish-quotes-throughout-history.html

Didge wrote:OMG, so Ben now thinks I am equating w=the terrorist attacks by the IRA during the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's to years where irish were treated in the UK during this time to English and British oppression in Ireland throughout history. Listen my mother is irish and not some weak 4th generation connection where you claim Irish descent from, I have more understanding about the oppression to the Irish than you will ever begin to understand and even worse you fail to understand the significance of the point made, trying to teach me history, not from your own knowledge but using someone else

Did you not grasp the point was on how the Irish were being treated in the Uk during the height of the IRA attacks?

For fuck sake

Didge wrote:More unfounded abuse
Ignore now increased until May

Will I have to start reporting this abuse and harassment?

I am having a civilized discussion over how problems can grow in a community and like has been pointed out before I and others do not want to see that hate grow but can see why it is, so as per usual the Aussi who has no idea about like in the UK jumps in acting childish just intent on abuse not able to even concern himself at what is being discussed

Until, you grow up Veya and act like an adult, I suggest you respect the wishes of your guests on here, because I am not wasting my time with someone who fails to understand what is being debated and is incapable of any reason

I suggest you respect my space and I will respect yours.

Now learn to grow up and then I may reconsider

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:More unfounded abuse
Ignore now increased until May

Will I have to start reporting this abuse and harassment?

I am having a civilized discussion over how problems can grow in a community and like has been pointed out before I and others do not want to see that hate grow but can see why it is, so as per usual the Aussi who has no idea about like in the UK jumps in acting childish just intent on abuse not able to even concern himself at what is being discussed

Until, you grow up Veya and act like an adult, I suggest you respect the wishes of your guests on here, because I am not wasting my time with someone who fails to understand what is being debated and is incapable of any reason

I suggest you respect my space and I will respect yours.

Now learn to grow up and then I may reconsider

NO, Please grow up and grow a pair and stop acting like a precious little snowflake that ANYONE is going to take serisously. Cause no one does.

A Debate is not one side reposting the same Crap that has been addressed over and over.
Please do Not refer to your posts as debate as they are not debate, they are a wanker spouting shit he read online with no real thought about the finer detial of what is beign discussed and Never actually responds to Anyone responses, and legitamte comments on the highly flawed Copy and pasted Rants YOU KEEP POSTING

DID YOU ANSWER BEN? NO
cause you cant so you repost the same rubbish as you Do in EVERY THREAD!!!

Post Shit Like you do and I will comment on it
Dont like it then Flounce again.
Respect for you is gone,
One that is such a hypocritical cry baby deserves nothing but contempt.

nicko wrote:Veya,    I never hated the Irish,    only the IRA scum who killed women and little children and cowardly planted bombs in shops and pubs.  They set one off in a Birmingham pub killing 21 innocents who were just having a drink after work.  IT may please you and  a couple others  that I personly slotted two of them, one who shot at me, and one retrieving guns who would not stop when challenged.  

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:

That failed to see all my points above, its not just terrorism, which you seem to think is the only reason, which whilst their was bigotry to the Irish due to the IRA, this is more than just terrorism, but ways of life that are odds with liberal values, to the point we have seen schools try to teach values that are inequality. So when people see this happened day after day, where hate preachers are allowed into this country spouting hate against homosexuals, its going to clash with the British society, which you seem to fail to grasp and it is appeasement from the left that wishes to deny these problems, which ends up pushing more and more people to the right. When there is glaring problems in the community they need to be tackled so that not all are blamed with the same brush but the inability and appeasement of the left when they tried to defend wrongs actually further ensures that does happen

Now you're just trying to rewrite history, the British not only hated the IRA, but the Irish way of life and the Irish themselves.

They live on beasts only, and live like beasts. They have not progressed at all from the habits of pastoral living. ..This is a filthy people, wallowing in vice. Of all peoples it is the least instructed in the rudiments of the faith. They do not yet pay tithes or first fruits or contract marriages. They do not avoid incest.
- Giraldus Cambrensis/Gerald of Wales, The History and Topography of Ireland, 12th Century

How godly a deed it is to overthrow so wicked a race the world may judge: for my part I think there cannot be a greater sacrifice to God.
- Edward Barkley, describing how the forces of the Earl of Essex slaughtered the entire population of Rathlin Island, Co. Antrim, 1575

Marry those be the most barbaric and loathy conditions of any people (I think) under heaven...They do use all the beastly behaviour that may be, they oppress all men, they spoil as well the subject, as the enemy; they steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.
- Edmund Spenser, A View of the State of Ireland, 1596

And first I have to find fault with the abuse of language; that is, for the speaking of Irish among the English, which as it is unnatural that any people should love another's language more than their own, so it is very inconvenient and the cause of many other evils. ...It seemeth strange to me that the English should take more delight to speak that language than their own, whereas they should, methinks, rather take scorn to acquaint their tongues thereto. For it hath ever been the use of the conqueror to despise the language of the conquered and to force him by all means to learn his.
- A View of the State of Ireland

I have often said, and written, it is Famine which must consume [the Irish]; our swords and other endeavours work not that speedy effect which is expected for their overthrow.
- English Viceroy Arthur Chichester writing to Elizabeth I's chief advisor, Nov. 1601

The time hath been, when they lived like Barbarians, in woods, in bogs, and in desolate places, without politic law, or civil government, neither embracing religion, law or mutual love. That which is hateful to all the world besides is only beloved and embraced by the Irish, I mean civil wars and domestic dissensions .... the Cannibals, devourers of men's flesh, do learn to be fierce amongst themselves, but the Irish, without all respect, are even more cruel to their neighbours.
- Barnaby Rich, A New Description of Ireland, 1610

All wisdom advises us to keep this [Irish] kingdom as much subordinate and dependent on England as possible; and, holding them from manufacture of wool (which unless otherwise directed, I shall by all means discourage), and then enforcing them to fetch their cloth from England, how can they depart from us without nakedness and beggary?
- Lord Stafford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in a letter to King Charles I, 1634

More vile quotes here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/history/22143-anti-irish-quotes-throughout-history.html

veya_victaous wrote:



And DIDGE he did not Fail to see your point He clearly Answered them, You just Don’t want to accept that To people Not Indoctrinated in British Propaganda the IRA are not the bad guys.

veya_victaous wrote:I marked them Red cause,
Your points are crap you just keep saying the same Hypocritical stuff that places all blame on other and says THEY need to fix the issues all the issue are them Never Accepting that the ISSUE is the Brit TOO.
You only can control one person action YOUR OWN
So Why don’t you STFU and Fix the myriad of issue with your own attitude FIRST !!!
 
Fuzzy Can even tell you what Reading the SHIT you post makes a moderate Muslim feel like and YOU are so conceited to think it will convince people that are not already inclined to attempt genocide for Religious belief!

nicko wrote:Veya,    I never hated the Irish,    only the IRA scum who killed women and little children and cowardly planted bombs in shops and pubs.  They set one off in a Birmingham pub killing 21 innocents who were just having a drink after work.  IT may please you and  a couple others  that I personly slotted two of them, one who shot at me, and one retrieving guns who would not stop when challenged.  

veya_victaous wrote:And What Didge Fails to See is that the rest of us think the same abotu the Uk because of the way it behaves.

Sorry I can see from the posts here that the Uk is filled with just as many people against liberal Values.

the Brits REALLY need to stop throwing stones at islam cause.. Glass houses mate

nicko wrote:Raggs,    I once spoke to an old Republican IRA man in a pub,     I will give his exact words.   " in my time we tried to kill Police and Army,  now the young thugs just want to  blow the arms and legs off women and kids"    Funnily enough I felt a tiny bit of respect for him,   then he left me to pay his bar bill,  the bastard!

nicko wrote:Veya,    I never hated the Irish,    only the IRA scum who killed women and little children and cowardly planted bombs in shops and pubs.  They set one off in a Birmingham pub killing 21 innocents who were just having a drink after work.  IT may please you and  a couple others  that I personly slotted two of them, one who shot at me, and one retrieving guns who would not stop when challenged.