The Oscars

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/01/the-oscars-havent-been-this-white-in-19-years/384550/


If you hold the belief that we are all the same and it doesn't matter if you are black or white etc... how can you then argue that it does matter if you are black or white when you racially profile the shortlist as being too white and you suddenly decide that whites and blacks aren't the same or equal at all because in your mind there is not enough of one different kind of people and too many of another...!!!???


If you really thought we were the same and equal etc... then you wouldn't be noticing any disparity at all...!!!


Just a thought...

Tommy Monk wrote:



http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/01/the-oscars-havent-been-this-white-in-19-years/384550/


If you hold the belief that we are all the same and it doesn't matter if you are black or white etc... how can you then argue that it does matter if you are black or white when you racially profile the shortlist as being too white and you suddenly decide that whites and blacks aren't the same or equal at all because in your mind there is not enough of one different kind of people and too many of another...!!!???


If you really thought we were the same and equal etc... then you wouldn't be noticing any disparity at all...!!!


Just a thought...

If you completely whitewash (pun intended) U.S. history and ignore how ignored the black artistic community's achievements have been by their own country for most of their history, you may have a point.

However, it seems way too much like the first 35 years of the Academy Awards in which two or three black actors were nominated over that entire span.

... and more should have been nominated because...?

A. They exhibited such great acting skills in their performances to be up there in the considerations for awards for being the best?

B. They were black...!?

I do think a boycott is ridiculous. Black actors have won many oscars over the years. The Oscars clearly aren't racist. Do they want them to start nominating based on skin colour over talent now?

Also, I don't see any Asian actors boycotting, and I'm pretty sure they are even more under represented than Black actors.

WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!!... BUT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF 'OUR' LOT INCLUDED IN THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL THE SAME...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!!... BUT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF 'OUR' LOT INCLUDED IN THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL THE SAME...!!!

Do you think 2 wrong make a right?
I am just trying to understand how your brian makes these connections

Do you think we are all the same?
why do you think the Old hippy is the same as a modern black person?

you will very rarely see any minority same we are all the same..
As clearly we are not
we should all be treated equal is what they will say.
they are not, and that is not the modern LW view. the Old hippy might have said everyone is the same but they were stoned off their tits
"everyone should be given the same opportunity" is does not mean "everyone is the same"

Cinema is art. Art usually paces reality. When you limit art to only part of reality, then one can legitimately ask, why(?).

The Screen Actors Guild is overwhelmingly white. That is because there have been far too few acting opportunities for blacks. Since racial exclusion was intentional, it is appropriate that an effort be made to write scripts for blacks.

So blacks can't write scripts for themselves?

nicko wrote:So blacks can't write scripts for themselves?

No, the scripts are written.  But the money is in the hands of white filmmakers.  The industry is operated on economies of scale, and such businesses are subject to monopolistic practices. The decision-makers are reduced to a few, while the magnitude of cost is prohibitive.

In 1989 Spike Lee's film, Do the Right Thing, came out with no financial backing.  Also, the same year, Driving Miss Daisy came out to huge fanfare and with a large financial backing.  Why?  Because the latter film portrayed roles the way the white film producers want to see people.  In other words, the industry tends to perpetuate stereotypes...lots of black maids and chauffeurs, but very few James Bonds.

BTW...Do the Right Thing is used to teach university classes, while, um...I haven't seen Driving Miss Daisy in years.

Eilzel wrote:I do think a boycott is ridiculous. Black actors have won many oscars over the years. The Oscars clearly aren't racist. Do they want them to start nominating based on skin colour over talent now?

Also, I don't see any Asian actors boycotting, and I'm pretty sure they are even more under represented than Black actors.

Spot on Les and also

It's been NINETEEN YEARS since the oscars have been this white! NINETEEN YEARS!!!

For fucks sake.

Perhaps black people just made shit films this year and that's that

Eilzel wrote:I do think a boycott is ridiculous. Black actors have won many oscars over the years. The Oscars clearly aren't racist. Do they want them to start nominating based on skin colour over talent now?

Also, I don't see any Asian actors boycotting, and I'm pretty sure they are even more under represented than Black actors.

Spike Lee, whose decision to be elsewhere during the Oscars prompted all the talk of boycott, has specifically disavowed any action or intent to boycott the Oscars.  He has openly stated that he intends to be in New York City, watching a basketball game between the New York Knicks and the Miami Heat.  He is neither organizing, nor participating in a boycott.  He simply has other plans.

That doesn't make the issue go away.  It's just that the talk of boycott is more media jargon, than real.  The media is using the term 'boycott' to describe a situation, not an organized activity.

nicko wrote:So blacks can't write scripts for themselves?

i think the problem is more the men with the money don't produce those scripts
It is probably not active racism either
they are business men and choose, more often than not, 'Safe' investments
which in 'art' means more of the same.

In my opinon this is also why Hollywood makes crap films generally.

if you look at older films you can see it was the same for women.

Why would a script need to be written for a black person? There are plenty of black people in films and TV who just have normal scripts - ie, ones which are nothing to do with their colour.

Raggamuffin wrote:Why would a script need to be written for a black person? There are plenty of black people in films and TV who just have normal scripts - ie, ones which are nothing to do with their colour.

well more often than not the Lead role (thus the one that can win the main awards) is written for a white male so they cast a white male.

like in the old days the main roles avaible for women were damzels in distress simply because no one wrote strong female lead charaters.

Each year there are some 20 opportunities, or nominations for actors and actresses, to be put up for awards. In the past two years there have been no blacks nominated. That's 40 opportunities to nominate someone, and zero blacks.

You can't tell me that's chance.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why would a script need to be written for a black person? There are plenty of black people in films and TV who just have normal scripts - ie, ones which are nothing to do with their colour.

well more often than not the Lead role (thus the one that can win the main awards) is written for a white male so they cast a white male.

like in the old days the main roles avaible for women were damzels in distress simply because no one wrote strong female lead charaters.

What is a script for a white male?

For example, I've seen Denzel Washington in films, but it's not relevant that he's black. I've seen black actors and actresses on UK TV, and their characters are not defined by their colour.

A damsel in distress is a female in a particular situation, so it's not comparable.

In American films it is said to be quite common for British actors to be cast as the 'baddie'... is that racist too...!?

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

well more often than not the Lead role (thus the one that can win the main awards) is written for a white male so they cast a white male.

like in the old days the main roles avaible for women were damzels in distress simply because no one wrote strong female lead charaters.

What is a script for a white male?

For example, I've seen Denzel Washington in films, but it's not relevant that he's black. I've seen black actors and actresses on UK TV, and their characters are not defined by their colour.

A damsel in distress is a female in a particular situation, so it's not comparable.

Don't you think that's part of the problem? The more amorphous roles are yet going to the white person. I mean, the system as it is still manages to exclude blacks.

Tommy Monk wrote:In American films it is said to be quite common for British actors to be cast as the 'baddie'... is that racist too...!?

That's true. That is how the powers that be in the industry behave. The Brits are baddies. Big tits = Leading Lady.

And Blacks? No work today!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What is a script for a white male?

For example, I've seen Denzel Washington in films, but it's not relevant that he's black. I've seen black actors and actresses on UK TV, and their characters are not defined by their colour.

A damsel in distress is a female in a particular situation, so it's not comparable.

Don't you think that's part of the problem?  The more amorphous roles are yet going to the white person.  I mean, the system as it is still manages to exclude blacks.

I don't know - I don't tend to watch modern films. I've seen quite a few with black men in though who aren't defined by their colour.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:In American films it is said to be quite common for British actors to be cast as the 'baddie'... is that racist too...!?

That's true.  That is how the powers that be in the industry behave.  The Brits are baddies.  Big tits = Leading Lady.  

And Blacks?  No work today!

It's not just British actors, the bad guys in a lot of American films tend to have foreign accents even if they're white. It's particularly common these days to have Russian or other Eastern European bad guys.

The really interesting question is why they have non-American accents. And the answer is, it makes them sound "otherly" to the audience. It's an appeal to xenophobia.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's true.  That is how the powers that be in the industry behave.  The Brits are baddies.  Big tits = Leading Lady.  

And Blacks?  No work today!

It's not just British actors, the bad guys in a lot of American films tend to have foreign accents even if they're white. It's particularly common these days to have Russian or other Eastern European bad guys.

The really interesting question is why they have non-American accents. And the answer is, it makes them sound "otherly" to the audience. It's an appeal to xenophobia.

Same appeal as Donald Trump.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Don't you think that's part of the problem?  The more amorphous roles are yet going to the white person.  I mean, the system as it is still manages to exclude blacks.

I don't know - I don't tend to watch modern films. I've seen quite a few with black men in though who aren't defined by their colour.

Forty nominations in the past two years, and no blacks? Seems rigged to me.

Yes but look at the blockbusters that Dicaprio has been in!
Massive multi-millions dollar movies yet he hasn't won an Oscar!!!

Is that cos he's white?

I can tell you, if he was black, that's what you'd all be saying: "He hasn't won an Oscar because he's black"

eddie wrote:Yes but look at the blockbusters that Dicaprio has been in!
Massive multi-millions dollar movies yet he hasn't won an Oscar!!!

Is that cos he's white?

I can tell you, if he was black, that's what you'd all be saying: "He hasn't won an Oscar because he's black"

Arnie never won either, and it wasn't because he was white or had anything to do with ticket sales. It's because he's not a good actor

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Yes but look at the blockbusters that Dicaprio has been in!
Massive multi-millions dollar movies yet he hasn't won an Oscar!!!

Is that cos he's white?

I can tell you, if he was black, that's what you'd all be saying: "He hasn't won an Oscar because he's black"

Arnie never won either, and it wasn't because he was white or had anything to do with ticket sales. It's because he's not a good actor

You seriously comparing Arnie to Di Caprio?

Seriously?

Blood Diamond?
have you even watched Revenant?
The Departed?

If not how can you even begin to compare?

As much as I agree the Oscars are biased he does deserve an Oscar

But my point is still,the same:

If Dicaprio was black, certain people would say he hadn't won because he's black.
They would.

We all know it.

Probably Eds. Leo is hot favourite to win this year though, and about time!

Sadly all this whole furore will achieve is of a black actor is nominated or wins an award next year there will be ???s over whether he/she won on merit or as a goodwill gesture

Lots of really good actors have never gotten an Oscar. Leo's been nominated for six, though, and the nominations are what really count to me. Every year there are going to be a number of great performances, and to have the black actors' performances universally ignored at the Oscars just blows, frankly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35374741

Ya gotta be good enough, lick ass and be lucky.

Ben, why do you say they are ignored?

Have black actors been nominated before? Yes, many times.

Have black actors won awards before? Yes.

They aren't overlooked, based on recent history. But this time they weren't among the best. That's just how it is.

Would you prefer we awarded nominations based on tokenism rather than merit?

Eilzel wrote:Ben, why do you say they are ignored?

Have black actors been nominated before? Yes, many times.

Have black actors won awards before? Yes.

They aren't overlooked, based on recent history. But this time they weren't among the best. That's just how it is.

Would you prefer we awarded nominations based on tokenism rather than merit?

It should be done on performances, but then a film how good it is in the public aspect can then sway people in that film who are up for nomination on credit alone for the film
There is clear evidence before in bias on the nomination process and whilst I share your views it should be done based on excellence of performance there is evidence of this bias Eilzel where great performances have been overlook by Black actors.
Whether that was racially done intentionally is difficulty to prove, and where it is more likely based on the preference of those deciding nominees, but it does open up a can of worms when a performance so great is ignored, of which has happened to white actors as well.


Here is an interesting article that places this into perspective:

[size=44]How racially skewed are the Oscars?[/size]

Jan 21st 2016, 16:05 BY J.T.

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FOR the 20 actors nominated for an Oscar all to be white could at best be seen as a surprise. For that to be true two years running is, to many, a scandal. While there will be no empty seats at the 88th Academy Awards ceremony on February 28th—live television does not permit such things—there may be a lot of missing faces. Confronted with what is seen as a “whitewash”, many prominent black Americans are saying they will boycott the ceremony. In fact, as our analysis of film casts and awards shows, the number of black actors winning Oscars in this century has been pretty much in line with the size of America's overall black population. But this does not mean Hollywood has no problems of prejudice. As the data show, it clearly does. The issue has come to a head because over the past two years some films with a particular emotional resonance were passed over. The original “Rocky” (1976) won three Oscars, and Sylvester Stallone was nominated (though he did not win) for both acting and writing. Critics and fans alike have heaped praise on 2015's new addition to the Rocky franchise, “Creed”, which sees a black fighter as the hero. But the star and the black director, Michael B. Jordan and Ryan Coogler, will have to make do with fans' appreciation and more than $100m at the box office: the film's only nomination went to Mr Stallone, this time for Best Supporting Actor. “Straight Outta Compton”, a hit film about a black hip-hop group with a black director and producer, was nominated only for its screenplay, the writers of which were white. “Beasts of No Nation” delighted our reviewer, and fans of its star, Idris Elba, hope he will be the next James Bond. It also brought a horrifying phenomenon, child soldiering in Africa, to Western audiences. But the Academy ignored it. All this happens in the shadow of last year's nominations, in which “Selma”, a film about the civil-rights movement which our reviewer found “remarkable”, was nominated but did not win Best Picture, as many thought it should. Neither its director, Ava DuVernay, nor its star, David Oyelowo, were recognised by the academy.


Fingers are pointing at the Academy’s 6,000-odd voting members, 94% of whom are white. Spike Lee, whose “Do The Right Thing” is considered one of the great movies not to have won an Oscar, has lamented “another all-white ballot”; Don Cheadle, who got a Best Actor nomination in 2004 for “Hotel Rwanda”, has joked dryly about parking cars at the event. It is possible that the only black actor onstage will be Chris Rock, who is hosting. He has already said that the Oscars seem to have become a white equivalent of the Black Entertainment Television awards. These years are far from the first whitewashing in Oscars history: no actors from ethnic minorities were nominated in 1995 or 1997, or in an extraordinary streak between 1975 and 1980. Throughout the 20th century, 95% of Oscar nominations went to white film stars. It is an embarrassing anachronism that the prevalence of white Academy electors has been allowed to continue into the 21st century, a trend that the Academy's (black) president, Cheryl Boone Isaacs, has vowed to end. Could the “whiteout” be a statistical glitch? If the data were random, such a glitch would be hugely unlikely. A 2013 survey of the Screen Actors Guild (SAG), an American union for film performers, suggests that 70% of its members are white. If all of the Guild’s members were equally likely to receive Oscar nominations, regardless of race, then over a two-year period 28 out of 40 nominations would be of white actors. The chances of no single person of colour being nominated across two ceremonies would be exceptionally small—even during a 15-year span, the odds of seeing at least one sequence of back-to-back whiteouts are around one in 100,000. 

Of course the data are not random. Yet, despite the 2015-2016 whiteout, an analysis of Oscar selections since 2000 suggests that the imbalances are industry-wide, not primarily to do with Academy voters. And they affect all ethnic minorities. Oscar nominations have not dramatically under-represented black actors. Instead, they have greatly over-represented white ones. Blacks are 12.6% of the American population, and 10% of Oscar nominations since 2000 have gone to black actors. But just 3% of nominations have gone to their Hispanic peers (16% of the population), 1% to those with Asian backgrounds, and 2% to those of other heritage (see chart).
Black actors get speaking roles in rough proportion to their percentage of America’s population, according to a study of 600 top films from 2007-2013 at the Annenberg Center for Communication and Journalism. (See “film roles” in the chart above.) Again, Latinos and Asians do much worse. But blacks are under-represented in the roles that count for the Oscars, getting just 9% of the top roles since 2000, according to our own analysis. (We define “top roles” as the top three names on the cast-list on IMDb, an online film database, in films with a rating of 7.5 or greater, an American box-office gross of at least $10m, and which were neither animated nor in a foreign language.)

The numbers indicate that, whereas the film industry most certainly fails to represent America’s diversity, the whitewashing occurs not behind the closed doors of the Academy, but in drama schools (shown in the SAG membership) and casting offices. For most of the past 15 years, the Academy has largely judged what has been put in front of them: minority actors land 15% of top roles, 15% of nominations and 17% of wins. Once up for top roles, black actors do well, converting 9% of top roles into 10% of best-actor nominations and 15% of the coveted golden statuettes, a bit above their share of the general population. The view behind the scenes is perhaps more revealing. Blacks really are much more under-represented in the director’s chair, where they account for 6% of directors of the top 600 films, according to the Annenberg study. Black women are nearly nonexistent there (two of the 600, Ms DuVernay being one). These are the numbers that critics of Hollywood should be most concerned about, along with the dearth of top roles for Hispanic and Asian actors. Best Actor nominations and wins—in which black actors have done decently, 2015 and 2016 excepted—seem to be the wrong target. If consumers want their films to reflect the society in which they live—as they do their parliaments and executive boards—it is these areas that must see improvement. And film-goers may have more power to provoke that change than they realise. Hispanic Americans buy 25% of the nation’s cinema tickets. If they, like the actors tweeting with the #OscarsSoWhite, are sick of a whitewashed Hollywood, then Hollywood would be wise to listen.

Correction: This piece has been updated. We originally said that “Selma” had received no Oscar nominations; it was nominated for, but did not win, Best Picture. It did win Best Original Song. Apologies.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2016/01/film-and-race

eddie wrote:Yes but look at the blockbusters that Dicaprio has been in!
Massive multi-millions dollar movies yet he hasn't won an Oscar!!!

Is that cos he's white?

I can tell you, if he was black, that's what you'd all be saying: "He hasn't won an Oscar because he's black"

The numbers don't lie.

Eilzel wrote:Ben, why do you say they are ignored?

Have black actors been nominated before? Yes, many times.

Have black actors won awards before? Yes.

They aren't overlooked, based on recent history. But this time they weren't among the best. That's just how it is.

Would you prefer we awarded nominations based on tokenism rather than merit?

Actually, they aren't doing either.  In the past two years, there have been some forty nominations of actors and actresses for awards, and none are black.  It appears, if anything, that the tokenism effort is to deliberately exclude blacks.

Anyway, what's the worry?  A few actors have other plans and won't be there.  I won't be their either...but of course, I haven't watched in 25-years.

Leonardo Dicaprio had only one good film: What's Eating Gilbert Grape.  They try to put him in leading male roles, but he always looks like a little kid.  Some people just cannot transcend.

That's your opinion Quill. Which black actor would you have replaced a white actor with this year then, in the lead role catagory?

Eilzel wrote:That's your opinion Quill. Which black actor would you have replaced a white actor with this year then, in the lead role catagory?

Come on Les. If some random big comet plopped down and hit a black man on the head, we all know the comet is a fucking racist.

Eilzel wrote:That's your opinion Quill. Which black actor would you have replaced a white actor with this year then, in the lead role catagory?

Well I would say Samual l Jackson could have been nominated for best actor from the "Hateful Eight"

Or Idris Elba also nominated for Best Actor for from ""Beasts of No Nation"


Have you watched either Eilzel?

By the way I think still Di Caprio should win, but this is about nominations

I have not seen any film with Elba in...

Tommy Monk wrote:I have not seen any film with Elba in...

Hey Tom. did you not see Elba Gantree, Burt Lancaster was given an Oscat for it, I think.

Nope...

Eilzel wrote:That's your opinion Quill. Which black actor would you have replaced a white actor with this year then, in the lead role catagory?

Donno.  Is it relevant?  The question is not really one of personal taste.  At some point the statistics are not about who is nominated, but who is not even considered.  Here we are discussing exclusion, not inclusion.

The numbers don't lie.  Over the past two years, the Academy has not managed to find a single black actor or actress whom to nominate, let alone award.  With such overwhelming numbers, the question is who, or what is filtering a whole race out of the picture (no pun intended)?

Surprised nobody has addressed the elephant in the room...

What you won't hear in the media is the real reason why black actors don't get nominated or even get the opportunities to be in an Oscar worthy film:

Wannabe black actors don't suck enough enough white Holywood producer dick.

Eddie Murphy, Denzel, Will Smith and now Kevin Hart - all accepted white penises in their mouth.

Dave Chappelle didn't. His career went into the gutter.

There are many other examples.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Surprised nobody has addressed the elephant in the room...

What you won't hear in the media is the real reason why black actors don't get nominated or even get the opportunities to be in an Oscar worthy film:

Wannabe black actors don't suck enough enough white Holywood producer dick.

Eddie Murphy, Denzel, Will Smith and now Kevin Hart - all accepted white penises in their mouth.

Dave Chappelle didn't. His career went into the gutter.

There are many other examples.

Sorry I fail to even understand what you are claiming
Are you claiming some homosexual homophobic conspiracy here, which would be as off the charts as could be?

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Surprised nobody has addressed the elephant in the room...

What you won't hear in the media is the real reason why black actors don't get nominated or even get the opportunities to be in an Oscar worthy film:

Wannabe black actors don't suck enough enough white Holywood producer dick.

Eddie Murphy, Denzel, Will Smith and now Kevin Hart - all accepted white penises in their mouth.

Dave Chappelle didn't. His career went into the gutter.

There are many other examples.

Sorry I fail to even understand what you are claiming
Are you claiming some homosexual homophobic conspiracy here, which would be as off the charts as could be?

Homophobic conspiracy. lol!

I'm saying Holywood has certain initiation rights which you have to comply to be famous and rich.

The femanisation of men and gay sexual favours included.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Sorry I fail to even understand what you are claiming
Are you claiming some homosexual homophobic conspiracy here, which would be as off the charts as could be?

Homophobic conspiracy. lol!

I'm saying Holywood has certain initiation rights which you have to comply to be famous and rich.

The femanisation of men and gay sexual favours included.

So like I said some absurd homophobic conspiracy theory then

This is what he said.

CHRIS ROCK: Man, I counted at least 15 black people on that montage. I’m here at the Academy Awards, otherwise known as the White People’s Choice Awards.

What an insult to the Academy Awards, the blacks who have earned Oscars over the years won them on merit, anyone can try for one, work hard and wish for a bit of luck on the way.

Stormee wrote:This is what he said.

CHRIS ROCK: Man, I counted at least 15 black people on that montage. I’m here at the Academy Awards, otherwise known as the White People’s Choice Awards.

What an insult to the Academy Awards, the blacks who have earned Oscars over the years won them on merit, anyone can try for one, work hard and wish for a bit of luck on the way.

But I believe there were others with merit, as well. The properties didn't get produced, and the roles were not offered or available.

Sometimes the judges need to be judged. I think that's what it's all about.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Yes but look at the blockbusters that Dicaprio has been in!
Massive multi-millions dollar movies yet he hasn't won an Oscar!!!

Is that cos he's white?

I can tell you, if he was black, that's what you'd all be saying: "He hasn't won an Oscar because he's black"

Arnie never won either, and it wasn't because he was white or had anything to do with ticket sales. It's because he's not a good actor

   He played the wooden automaton type to perfection!

Maybe the Academy needs to shake up the board of voters.

In 87 years only ONE black woman has won best actress in a leading role and only  FOUR black men have won for the male equivalent.