Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:44 pm

"A lot of people act out of fear or ignorance"

(CHICAGO) — Pardeep Kaleka spent several days after 9/11 at his father’s South Milwaukee gas station, fearing that his family would be targeted by people who assumed they were Muslim. No, Kaleka explained on behalf of his father, who wore a turban and beard and spoke only in broken English, the family was Sikh, a southeast Asian religion based on equality and unrelated to Islam.

But amid a new wave of anti-Islamic sentiment since the terror attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, Kaleka is vowing to take an entirely different approach.

“For us it does not matter who they’re targeting,” said Kaleka, a former Milwaukee police officer and teacher whose father was one of six people killed in 2012 when a white supremacist opened fire at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. “This time we cannot differentiate ourselves; when hate rhetoric is being spewed we cannot be on the sidelines.”

Across the U.S., Sikhs and Muslims are banding together to defend their respective religions. Someone bent on harming Muslims wouldn’t understand — or care — about the distinction between the two faiths, they say, and both also deserve to live in peace.

So they plan educational sessions and rallies. They successfully pushed the FBI to track hate crimes against Sikhs. They speak to lawmakers and support each other’s legal action, including a lawsuit filed over a New York City police surveillance program targeting New Jersey Muslims.

“We are in this fight together,” said Gurjot Kaur, a senior staff attorney at The Sikh Coalition, founded the night of Sept. 11.

Sikhism, a monotheistic faith, was founded more than 500 years ago in Southeast Asia and has roughly 27 million followers worldwide, most of them in India.

There are more than 500,000 Sikhs in the U.S. Male followers often cover their heads with turbans — which are considered sacred — and refrain from shaving their beards.

Reports of bullying, harassment and vandalism against Sikhs have risen in recent weeks.

Last week, a Sikh temple in Orange County, California, was vandalized, as was a truck in the parking lot by someone who misspelled the word “Islam” and made an obscene reference to ISIS.

A Sikh woman said she recently was forced to show her breast pump before taking her seat on an airplane in Minneapolis because another passenger thought she might be a terrorist. Several Sikh football fans said they initially were not allowed into Qualcomm Stadium to watch the San Diego Chargers game against the Denver Broncos last Sunday because several of them were wearing turbans. Schoolchildren say they’ve been bullied.

For most Sikhs, much of the backlash has been frequent stares or comments and occasional online insults.
Former NCAA basketball player Darsh Singh said he has heard insults throughout his life, including recently when someone recently yelled “Osama!” at him as he was crossing a street in Phoenix.

Then last week, a photo making the rounds on Facebook showed the former Trinity University basketball player — the first turbaned Sikh to play in the NCAA — with the caption: “Nobody wants to guard Muhammad, he’s too explosive.” A friend came to his defense with a lengthy post —saying, “do the world a favor and educate yourself” — which got tens of thousands of likes.

“A lot of people act out of fear or ignorance,” said Singh. “I don’t know who started it, but whoever they are, I forgive them.”

Rajinder Singh Mago, community outreach director at the Sikh Religious Society of Chicago, said it’s more difficult for Sikh schoolchildren who sometimes are bullied.

“Ninety-nine percent of Americans are good … then that one person who just came out of a tavern after a few beers, you don’t know what he’s thinking at that point,” Mago said.

Madihha Ahussain, a staff attorney at the national group Muslim Advocates, said people who are misinformed about both religions not only are “blaming entire faith communities, now they’re blaming multiple groups for the acts of a couple individuals.”

As a result, some Sikhs have encountered violence.

A Chicago-area teenager was charged with a hate crime after a September road rage incident in which he called 53-year-old Sikh taxi driver Inderjit Mukker “Bin Laden” and repeatedly hit him in the face, breaking his cheekbone.
In 2013, a Green Bay, Wisconsin, man was charged with a hate crime for allegedly setting fire to a convenience store owned by a Sikh-American.

That was less than a year after white supremacist Wade Michael Page killed six people and wounded four others at the Oak Creek temple. Kaleka said his father, Satwant Singh Kaleka, was the last person killed inside the temple, after Page broke into an office where the elder Kaleka was calling 911.

Kaleka said the Muslim community reached out to Sikhs in the aftermath, and members of both faiths — along with Christians, Jews and others — are continuing to work together to combat inflammatory rhetoric. Last weekend, he spoke at a Muslim women’s coalition.

“I think this is just another test and, unfortunately, I think as bad as the comments are from some politicians, it does surface some underlying issues we haven’t addressed,” in this country, he said.

http://time.com/4147016/sikhs-Muslim-backlash/

Great to see that they are working together. It certainly makes sense, there have been many occasions when Temples have been targeted by the truly ignorant, who not only wave their prejudice as a flag, but can't tell the difference between Temples and Mosques (which kinda says everything about them).
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by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:48 pm

Well according to you and Veya they must be cowards.
I do not think they are cowards or aiding daesh, do you?

by Raggamuffin Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:53 pm

Aren't you going to call them a "bunch of pussies" Sassy? You could tell them to "stop snivelling in a corner" and get on with their lives.

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:13 pm

Well, in our case, we are very unlikely to be targetted in a specific place. So we would be pretty cowardly to stop going out and getting on with our daily lives. In the case of the Sikhs and the Muslims, in the USA the Temples and Mosques are being targetted. And they are not stopping going to them or changing what they do, they are simply working together to combat the rhetoric and educate. Nothing cowardly about that, they are using their brains.

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Aren't you going to call them a "bunch of pussies" Sassy? You could tell them to "stop snivelling in a corner" and get on with their lives.

You see she just contradicted her own reasoning as its just as unlikely many sikhs will not be targeted with hate in a sspecific place or attacked, but she does not call them cowards but people rightly concerned about terrorism as cowards.
She uses such flawed logic it is amusing

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:30 pm

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:37 pm

sassy wrote:

Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash 1716015268

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:54 pm

Bowing for talking rubbish, sound about right Rolling Eyes

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:56 pm

sassy wrote:Bowing for talking rubbish, sound about right

Really, so you claim something is rubbish but cannot reason your claim.

Hence why you taker a bow after a wonderful performance

Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash 1716015268

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:57 pm

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:08 pm

sassy wrote:

by Andy Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:26 pm

There are some people,even some cretins on here, who will target Sikhs as well as Muslims because they are in general dark skinned. Matters not what religion they follow, but the colour of their skin is sufficient to render them 'Johnny Foreigner'' and an enemy of the state.

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:32 pm

Handy Andy wrote:There are some people,even some cretins on here, who will target Sikhs as well as Muslims because they are in general dark skinned. Matters not what religion they follow, but the colour of their skin is sufficient to render them 'Johnny Foreigner'' and an enemy of the state.

See this is a good example of bigotry.
I agree with his views, but it shows an intolerance to others and their views, which means we are all bigots in some form or another

by Andy Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:43 pm

Incitement to cause racial hatred is an offence. Is it bigotted to condemn those who commit such offences?
I certainly dislike those who are prejudiced, homophobic, racist, anti left wing, simply because they are allowed to.
My dislike doesn't make me the bigot, though.

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:45 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Incitement to cause racial hatred is an offence. Is it bigotted to condemn those who commit such offences?
I certainly dislike those who are prejudiced, homophobic, racist, anti left wing, simply because they are allowed to.
My dislike doesn't make me the bigot, though.

The question you have to ask yourself Andy.
Are you intolerant or tolerant of those who racially incite violence?
I certainly am intolerant of those who incite racial violence, are you?

by Andy Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:48 pm

I am wholly intolerant of them as I am against any lawbreakers.
Not all laws are sound or fair,but without their compliance,we would have anarchy and a breakdown of society.

by Guest Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:51 pm

Handy Andy wrote:I am wholly intolerant of them as I am against any lawbreakers.
Not all laws are sound or fair,but without their compliance,we would have anarchy and a breakdown of society.

Well by definition it makes us both bigots on the issue of racially incited hatred and violence.
As I say there is bigotry in all of us, though it is whether that bigotry has validity, and in this case it does.

by Victorismyhero Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:45 pm

Handy Andy wrote:Incitement to cause racial hatred is an offence. Is it bigotted to condemn those who commit such offences?
I certainly dislike those who are prejudiced, homophobic, racist, anti left wing, simply because they are allowed to.
My dislike doesn't make me the bigot, though.

see what handy shandy did there

he inadvertantly let slip the lefty "ultimate goal" dictatorship...

if you dont agree with us in every particular you are (add a random epithet)

you will be condemned for being anit left...simply because you can be

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:49 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Well according to you and Veya they must be cowards.
I do not think they are cowards or aiding daesh, do you?

quite the Opposite
look at the ACTUAL hardship Sikhs face from Ignorant Racists.
Yet a few White people feel threatened by 'a group' even though they have never directly had any impact on their lives and are unlikely to, So they lash out at any foreigner.

So Yes The Cowards that Aide daesh by Promoting a universal hatred of Islam are Still Cowards and the Absolute opposite of the Sikhs that Endure hardship with very little complaint, the do not react with primitive fearful responses like is all to common in 'western Anglo' communities

by Raggamuffin Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:55 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Well according to you and Veya they must be cowards.
I do not think they are cowards or aiding daesh, do you?

quite the Opposite
look at the ACTUAL hardship Sikhs face from Ignorant Racists.
Yet a few White people feel threatened by 'a group' even though they have never directly had any impact on their lives and are unlikely to, So they lash out at any foreigner.

So Yes The Cowards that Aide daesh by Promoting a universal hatred of Islam are Still Cowards and the Absolute opposite of the Sikhs that Endure hardship with very little complaint, the do not react with primitive fearful responses like is all to common in 'western Anglo' communities

There you go with your racist shite again.

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:17 pm

point out which part raggs
Specifically!!!!
or Do you think just mentioning race is racsit????
In which case
YOU ARE THE REASON THAT PC IS SO DUMB IN THE UK!!!!

Victor, Nicko, Stormee and the Rest should be Hating on YOU for making things so dumb.

by Raggamuffin Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:20 pm

veya_victaous wrote:point out which part raggs
Specifically!!!!
or Do you think just mentioning race is racsit????
In which case
YOU ARE THE REASON THAT PC IS SO DUMB IN THE UK!!!!

Victor, Nicko, Stormee and the Rest should be Hating on YOU for making things so dumb.

You only single out some people as being "entitled" to be afraid, and you base it on race. You also assume that Sikhs are foreigners. You're racist.

by Victorismyhero Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:28 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Well according to you and Veya they must be cowards.
I do not think they are cowards or aiding daesh, do you?

quite the Opposite
look at the ACTUAL hardship Sikhs face from Ignorant Racists.
Yet a few White people feel threatened by 'a group' even though they have never directly had any impact on their lives and are unlikely to, So they lash out at any foreigner.

So Yes The Cowards that Aide daesh by Promoting a universal hatred of Islam are Still Cowards and the Absolute opposite of the Sikhs that Endure hardship with very little complaint, the do not react with primitive fearful responses like is all to common in 'western Anglo' communities

which once again shows how little you know about the reality "on the ground" here

where sikh communities abut Muslim communities over here the Sikhs have "street patrols" to keep the Muslims out..and the authorities turn a blind eye to it

if an "anglo" (to use your disgusting turn of phrase), community was to do the same they would get a visit from the cops and doubless the thought police too.....
they would be villified as R/W ers labeled nazis etc ....

Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash 2190311264

Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash 2190311264

See Veya...in areas where there ARE problems ...authority WONT do anything about said situations (and in some cases is involved with facilitating)
but neither will they allow the affected community to do anything about it either

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:point out which part raggs
Specifically!!!!
or Do you think just mentioning race is racsit????
In which case
YOU ARE THE REASON THAT PC IS SO DUMB IN THE UK!!!!

Victor, Nicko, Stormee and the Rest should be Hating on YOU for making things so dumb.

You only single out some people as being "entitled" to be afraid, and you base it on race. You also assume that Sikhs are foreigners. You're racist.

please show where i said Anyone is entitled to be afraid? Rolling Eyes

and I didn't assume, the people that mistake the Sikhs for Muslim DO. I am stating their mindset.

by veya_victaous Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:18 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Well according to you and Veya they must be cowards.
I do not think they are cowards or aiding daesh, do you?

quite the Opposite
look at the ACTUAL hardship Sikhs face from Ignorant Racists.
Yet a few White people feel threatened by 'a group' even though they have never directly had any impact on their lives and are unlikely to, So they lash out at any foreigner.

So Yes The Cowards that Aide daesh by Promoting a universal hatred of Islam are Still Cowards and the Absolute opposite of the Sikhs that Endure hardship with very little complaint, the do not react with primitive fearful responses like is all to common in 'western Anglo' communities

which once again shows how little you know about the reality "on the ground" here

where sikh communities abut Muslim communities over here the Sikhs have "street patrols" to keep the Muslims out..and the authorities turn a blind eye to it

if an "anglo" (to use your disgusting turn of phrase), community was to do the same they would get a visit from the cops and doubless the thought police too.....
they would be villified as R/W ers labeled nazis etc ....

See Veya...in areas where there ARE problems ...authority WONT do anything about said situations (and in some cases is involved with facilitating)
but neither will they allow the affected community to do anything about it either

what do you expect when you have fools like Raggs that Cant follow a conversation about Race. Rolling Eyes

it is such as shame that the Sikh community is behaving is such a fashion, unfortunately I get the feeling they are just doing what the 'anlgo' would do if allowed.

But Why UK authorities turn a blind eye based on race is beyond me, stupid, plain stupid and If that is the result of a British LW policy then you are right to think that is stupid Wink

Leadership is definitely lacking in the UK. You need a good demagogue that preaches social cohesion and compassion rather than one of the nationalistic cowards that preach hate and fear.

by Victorismyhero Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:33 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

which once again shows how little you know about the reality "on the ground" here

where sikh communities abut Muslim communities over here the Sikhs have "street patrols" to keep the Muslims out..and the authorities turn a blind eye to it

if an "anglo" (to use your disgusting turn of phrase), community was to do the same they would get a visit from the cops and doubless the thought police too.....
they would be villified as R/W ers labeled nazis etc ....

See Veya...in areas where there ARE problems ...authority WONT do anything about said situations (and in some cases is involved with facilitating)
but neither will they allow the affected community to do anything about it either

what do you expect when you have fools like Raggs that Cant follow a conversation about Race.

it is such as shame that the Sikh community is behaving is such a fashion, unfortunately I get the feeling they are just doing what the 'anlgo' would do if allowed.

which is kinda my point...if THEY are allowed to do it ...why isnt the anglo or conversely if the anglo ISNT allowed to do it why are they not stopped from doing it??

But Why UK authorities turn a blind eye based on race is beyond me, stupid, plain stupid and If that is the result of a British LW policy then you are right to think that is stupid

you begin to see why I dislike the left so much, they are...in truth even more disingenious and underhand that the right
I mean, no one could be in any doubt about tommy or stormees position on things could they
but the left....they say one thing and hide 10,00 other things behind it
they love preaching about social justice...and to a very large extent I am in agreement with that
but then destroy criminal justice

we no longer have a system that dispenses justice
we have a "penal code"
we used to hang some types of criminal...rightly IMO that was stopped
BUT nothing was put in place to substitute
given that the judiciary has for years been virtually at war with government on a far left agenda
sentences are cut even to the point some scrotes get away with stupid so called restorative justice
and there is NO real deterrent

Leadership is definitely lacking in the UK. You need a good demagogue that preaches social cohesion and compassion rather than one of the nationalistic cowards that preach hate and fear.

agreed , and we dont want the socilaistic cowards that are scared stiff of "offending" minorities either. Those we have suffered for too long.

by Tommy Monk Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:57 pm

Wrong about me again. . . It is exactly this type of double standards that I am against. .. and I constantly point out.!

by Victorismyhero Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:10 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Wrong about me again. . . It is exactly this type of double standards that I am against. .. and I constantly point out.!

????????????????????????????????????

I was kinda pointing out tommy , that whether or not I agree with you on any given issue

at least you are honest about your intentions and ideas....

Sikhs Feel Vulnerable Amid Anti-Muslim Backlash 2190311264

by Tommy Monk Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:30 am

I am always honest about my criticisms,but my 'ideas and intentions ' are rarely given any chance of getting an airing as so many people are too quick to vilify me and project straw man arguments against me. ..

by veya_victaous Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:08 am

Tommy Monk wrote:I am always honest about my criticisms,but my 'ideas and intentions ' are rarely given any chance of getting an airing as so many people are too quick to vilify me and project straw man arguments against me. ..

You mean you often miss Critical Flaws in your ideas and opinions.

Plus You present False information and persist in declaring it fact in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.

the problem is any argument or idea Started on the the idea that "the UK has mass immigration" is basically inherently wrong as the UK does not have mass immigration by anyone's standards but the UK's own RW nationalists. It an average rate of migration for English speaking nations. there is no getting around the fact 0.6% immigration is actually the second lowest of the English speaking nations, only Canada has less.

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:31 am

This thread just goes to show how twisted in thinking and downright stupid those on the right ... and, uh, Victor ... can be Smile

Of COURSE minority communities are more threatened by terrorism against them than the majority is. There aren't as many of them! If your group makes up 10 percent of 100, there are 10 targets among the mainstream to every one target among your group.

FFS!

And this is a U.S. story. There are about a half-million Sikhs in the U.S., population 322 million. Sikhs plus Muslims makes about 2.5 million. These people (Sikh or Muslim) stand out like sore thumbs over here, of course they're going to feel more vulnerable.

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:39 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:This thread just goes to show how twisted in thinking and downright stupid those on the right ... and, uh, Victor ... can be

Of COURSE minority communities are more threatened by terrorism against them than the majority is. There aren't as many of them! If your group makes up 10 percent of 100, there are 10 targets among the mainstream to every one target among your group.

FFS!

And this is a U.S. story. There are about a half-million Sikhs in the U.S., population 322 million. Sikhs plus Muslims makes about 2.5 million. These people (Sikh or Muslim) stand out like sore thumbs over here, of course they're going to feel more vulnerable.

That is failed logic. If there are less, there is less chance they will be a target of terrorism itself.
A sikh also should be less chance of b eing mistaken for a Muslims if wearing traditional headress be a target. Only if the attacker is a complete cummy, would he be failing to understand their traditional clothes. Now a Muslim woman is and are the most victims of hate crimes, and why? Because of the headscraf, that makes them stand out.
This again though fails to understand that a minority in both the US and Britain whos numbers in Britain are tens times less than Muslims in the population and yet receive vastly more hate crimes than Muslims in both the US ( 4 times more in the US) and Britain only half that of Muslims.

But hey Ben Jews tend to be white caucasion semitics, so I guess as a minority are as per usual discounted by the left

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:44 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:This thread just goes to show how twisted in thinking and downright stupid those on the right ... and, uh, Victor ... can be

Of COURSE minority communities are more threatened by terrorism against them than the majority is. There aren't as many of them! If your group makes up 10 percent of 100, there are 10 targets among the mainstream to every one target among your group.

FFS!

And this is a U.S. story. There are about a half-million Sikhs in the U.S., population 322 million. Sikhs plus Muslims makes about 2.5 million. These people (Sikh or Muslim) stand out like sore thumbs over here, of course they're going to feel more vulnerable.

That is failed logic. If there are less, there is less chance they will be a target of terrorism itself.
A sikh also should be less chance of b eing mistaken for a Muslims if wearing traditional headress be a target. Only if the attacker is a complete cummy, would he be failing to understand their traditional clothes. Now a Muslim woman is and are the most victims of hate crimes, and why? Because of the headscraf, that makes them stand out.
This again though fails to understand that a minority in both the US and Britain whos numbers in Britain are tens times less than Muslims in the population and yet receive vastly more hate crimes than Muslims in both the US ( 4 times more in the US) and Britain only half that of Muslims.

But hey Ben Jews tend to be white caucasion semitics, so I guess as a minority are as per usual discounted by the left

You think these right-wing yokel attackers know anything about other cultures? Ha! You need to come live here for a while.

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:50 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

That is failed logic. If there are less, there is less chance they will be a target of terrorism itself.
A sikh also should be less chance of b eing mistaken for a Muslims if wearing traditional headress be a target. Only if the attacker is a complete cummy, would he be failing to understand their traditional clothes. Now a Muslim woman is and are the most victims of hate crimes, and why? Because of the headscraf, that makes them stand out.
This again though fails to understand that a minority in both the US and Britain whos numbers in Britain are tens times less than Muslims in the population and yet receive vastly more hate crimes than Muslims in both the US ( 4 times more in the US) and Britain only half that of Muslims.

But hey Ben Jews tend to be white caucasion semitics, so I guess as a minority are as per usual discounted by the left

You think these right-wing yokel attackers know anything about other cultures? Ha! You need to come live here for a while.

How disingenuous again to define people and very elitist from a lefty.
I do not deny some people are ignorant of the custums and dress of people and hence why I constantly bang on about education, which will stop such stupidity, even more any hate towards Muslims, if schools make a view to teach against discrmination.,
The point is Jews, face far more discrmination than both Sikhs and Muslims in the US, but again you leave them out of the equaiton, the group with a far longer history of persecution than even Africans by Europeans

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:53 am

Right off to work, so enjoy the rest of your evening Ben

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:08 am

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

That is failed logic. If there are less, there is less chance they will be a target of terrorism itself.
A sikh also should be less chance of b eing mistaken for a Muslims if wearing traditional headress be a target. Only if the attacker is a complete cummy, would he be failing to understand their traditional clothes. Now a Muslim woman is and are the most victims of hate crimes, and why? Because of the headscraf, that makes them stand out.
This again though fails to understand that a minority in both the US and Britain whos numbers in Britain are tens times less than Muslims in the population and yet receive vastly more hate crimes than Muslims in both the US ( 4 times more in the US) and Britain only half that of Muslims.

But hey Ben Jews tend to be white caucasion semitics, so I guess as a minority are as per usual discounted by the left

You think these right-wing yokel attackers know anything about other cultures? Ha! You need to come live here for a while.

How disingenuous again to define people and very elitist from a lefty.
I do not deny some people are ignorant of the custums and dress of people and hence why I constantly bang on about education, which will stop such stupidity, even more any hate towards Muslims, if schools make a view to teach against discrmination.,
The point is Jews, face far more discrmination than both Sikhs and Muslims in the US, but again you leave them out of the equaiton, the group with a far longer history of persecution than even Africans by Europeans

The terms "elitist" and "left" don't go together. Elitism/conservatism is about who holds the power over others, and what social conventions the powerful dictate to the rest of society to make sure you're not part of their group. Gay, minority, female? No, you don't get to be part of the elite. It's a small circle for a reason.

Liberalism is anti-elitist in the most pure and, dare I say, loveable sense. We're all about power for everyone, as decided by the majority of the whole country -- not just the elites' vision of who should hold the reins of power.

And if you don't think the right wing represents the stupid/hateful segment of the U.S., might I remind you of a man named Donald Trump? And inform you that he has 41 percent of the support of the right, far more than any other presidential candidate on their side?

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:15 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

How disingenuous again to define people and very elitist from a lefty.
I do not deny some people are ignorant of the custums and dress of people and hence why I constantly bang on about education, which will stop such stupidity, even more any hate towards Muslims, if schools make a view to teach against discrmination.,
The point is Jews, face far more discrmination than both Sikhs and Muslims in the US, but again you leave them out of the equaiton, the group with a far longer history of persecution than even Africans by Europeans

The terms "elitist" and "left" don't go together. Elitism/conservatism is about who holds the power over others, and what social conventions the powerful dictate to the rest of society to make sure you're not part of their group. Gay, minority, female? No, you don't get to be part of the elite. It's a small circle for a reason.

Liberalism is anti-elitist in the most pure and, dare I say, loveable sense. We're all about power for everyone, as decided by the majority of the whole country -- not just the elites' vision of who should hold the reins of power.

And if you don't think the right wing represents the stupid/hateful segment of the U.S., might I remind you of a man named Donald Trump? And inform you that he has 41 percent of the support of the right, far more than any other presidential candidate on their side?

Well Ben nice try out of getting out of an elitist comment but you refer to a group of people in a derogatory manner. Placing yourself above others is elitism.

yokel/
an uneducated and unsophisticated person from the countryside.

Best you place yourself in the basement. Laughing

Now you again my last post where I said the Republicans and Tea party are on the fringe of the Far right.

Show me where I did not agree that they were hateful?
lol talk about a sore loser in havinb your views shown up.

Seriously how many more poor replies are you going to offer up for your poor incorrect claim on lefts being the champions of injustice.

Just be a man and admit your error and failings here

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:16 am

I notice you again avoid at all costs even being in agreement of the consistant discrmination that the Jews have faced for nearly 2000 years

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:38 am

Also how would you define those who attack Jews Ben?
Racists, whether Muslim, lefties or far right?
Where do you put your reasoning as to why there is still a far bigger problem with antisemitism than any anti-Muslim hatred in the US?
Maybe you could also explain why there is no terrorism from these groups in the US or around the world based off this persecution in the last 20 years? I mean surely by your views of leading to extremism and terrorism, we should see an unprecidented amount of Jewish terrorism and extremism. Explain why we do not?

by Tommy Monk Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:28 pm

Veya... you can't keep denying the mass immigration we have in the UK by just saying that some other countries have a bit higher level of mass immigration.

by Ben Reilly Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:37 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Also how would you define those who attack Jews Ben?
Racists, whether Muslim, lefties or far right?
Where do you put your reasoning as to why there is still a far bigger problem with antisemitism than any anti-Muslim hatred in the US?
Maybe you could also explain why there is no terrorism from these groups in the US or around the world based off this persecution in the last 20 years? I mean surely by your views of leading to extremism and terrorism, we should see an unprecidented amount of Jewish terrorism and extremism. Explain why we do not?

I've never denied the anti-semitism/racism that Jewish people in the U.S. have faced, and on other forums (when it was more current) have made almost a hobby of exposing the Jew-hating underpinnings of much of the American far right. Here's some reading for you:

https://chelm.freeyellow.com/libertarianproblem.html

by Guest Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Also how would you define those who attack Jews Ben?
Racists, whether Muslim, lefties or far right?
Where do you put your reasoning as to why there is still a far bigger problem with antisemitism than any anti-Muslim hatred in the US?
Maybe you could also explain why there is no terrorism from these groups in the US or around the world based off this persecution in the last 20 years? I mean surely by your views of leading to extremism and terrorism, we should see an unprecidented amount of Jewish terrorism and extremism. Explain why we do not?

I've never denied the anti-semitism/racism that Jewish people in the U.S. have faced, and on other forums (when it was more current) have made almost a hobby of exposing the Jew-hating underpinnings of much of the American far right. Here's some reading for you:

https://chelm.freeyellow.com/libertarianproblem.html

Great, what about the hate that is rife within Muslim communities?

by Victorismyhero Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:50 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:This thread just goes to show how twisted in thinking and downright stupid those on the right ... and, uh, Victor ... can be

PFFFFT...I could eat a tin of alphabet soup and shit a better argument than you

Of COURSE minority communities are more threatened by terrorism against them than the majority is. There aren't as many of them! If your group makes up 10 percent of 100, there are 10 targets among the mainstream to every one target among your group.

FFS!

And this is a U.S. story. There are about a half-million Sikhs in the U.S., population 322 million. Sikhs plus Muslims makes about 2.5 million. These people (Sikh or Muslim) stand out like sore thumbs over here, of course they're going to feel more vulnerable.

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