Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:35 am

A group of scientists claim to have evidence supporting the Big Rip theory, explaining how the universe will end – in 22 billion years.
Researchers at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, have discovered a new mathematical formulation that supports the Big Rip theory - that as the universe expands, it will eventually be ripped apart. “The idea of the Big Rip is that eventually even the constituents of matter would start separating from each other. You’d be seeing all the atoms being ripped apart ... it’s fair to say that it’s a dramatic scenario,” Dr Marcelo Disconzi told the Guardian.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11715091/Big-Rip-will-end-the-universe-scientists-claim.html

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:37 am

if you are going to make a guess make sure you won't be alive to hear people say "you got that wrong"....

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:41 am

Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:45 am

Cuchulain wrote:Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.

hmm I bet all the rich and influential, the alleged best minds in the world have somewhere to hide come the day... not sure it will be an ark but they will hide... Smile

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:47 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.

hmm I bet all the rich and influential, the alleged best minds in the world have somewhere to hide come the day... not sure it will be an ark but they will hide...

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 3489511464

If the Universe is ripped apart, I do nothing there will be anywhere to hide,

DOH

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:02 am

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

hmm I bet all the rich and influential, the alleged best minds in the world have somewhere to hide come the day... not sure it will be an ark but they will hide...

If the Universe is ripped apart, I do nothing there will be anywhere to hide,

DOH

lol... I was talking about a disaster on this planet, you know when you mentioned the ark, that was on the earth...yeah...

please try to keep up... Smile

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:05 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

If the Universe is ripped apart, I do nothing there will be anywhere to hide,

DOH

lol... I was talking about a disaster on this planet, you know when you mentioned the ark, that was on the earth...yeah...

please try to keep up...

Ona thread about the universes being ripped apart?

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 3489511464

by eddie Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:36 am

Well we won't know of this turns out to be true will we?
That's the beauty of scientific long predictions. Razz

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:50 am

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol... I was talking about a disaster on this planet, you know when you mentioned the ark, that was on the earth...yeah...

please try to keep up...

Ona thread about the universes being ripped apart?

you mentioned the ark....... Smile

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:51 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Ona thread about the universes being ripped apart?

you mentioned the ark.......

It was irony based on your poor science skills.

DOH

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:52 am

Cuchulain wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

you mentioned the ark.......

It was irony based on your poor science skills.

DOH

I can believe that, you do seem to struggle with science..... Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 2581891615

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:54 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

It was irony based on your poor science skills.

DOH

I can believe that, you do seem to struggle with science.....

PMSL

So you agree you are poor at science.

Thanks

by stardesk Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:22 pm

Evening folks. The end of our planet, or Solar System, or the known universe, is inevitable. Nothing lasts forever and it certainly isn't at the hands of god. I learned some years ago that the Lyra constellation was slowing heading towards our system, eventually causing its demise. Then of course we have the sun, which is now middle aged, eventually expanding and engulfing the solar system. And another possible cause is a rogue asteroid which may one day slam into Earth and wham, the end of life, as with the dinosaurs. There is also the possibility of a pandemic for which there is no known cure, killing of most of the human race. There are several possibilities for our demise, if not the planet. We are not invincible, unique, or something special in the scheme of things.

I wonder how HF will answer those possibilities.

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:25 pm

stardesk wrote:Evening folks. The end of our planet, or Solar System, or the known universe, is inevitable. Nothing lasts forever and it certainly isn't at the hands of god. I learned some years ago that the Lyra constellation was slowing heading towards our system, eventually causing its demise. Then of course we have the sun, which is now middle aged, eventually expanding and engulfing the solar system. And another possible cause is a rogue asteroid which may one day slam into Earth and wham, the end of life, as with the dinosaurs.

I wonder how HF will answer those possibilities.

well i could ask how you know that the lyra constellation is getting nearer, how you know the sun is middle aged and how you know an asteroid will eventually hit the planet...

or I could say all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will.... Smile

by stardesk Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:30 pm

Hi HF. One important question: If God set everything in motion and created all known things, why would he then destroy it all? Humans perhaps, but why animals and even the planet? Did he make a mistake in his creations?

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:35 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi HF. One important question: If God set everything in motion and created all known things, why would he then destroy it all? Humans perhaps, but why animals and even the planet? Did he make a mistake in his creations?

no mistake just plans, he said their will be a new heaven and a new earth.... Smile

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:45 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:if you are going to make a guess make sure you won't be alive to hear people say "you got that wrong"....

It's not a guess, it's based on a mathematical formula which is in turn based on the observable, ongoing accelerated expansion of the universe.

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:50 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi HF. One important question: If God set everything in motion and created all known things, why would he then destroy it all? Humans perhaps, but why animals and even the planet? Did he make a mistake in his creations?

You don't go quite far enough with that question, in my opinion. If you think about it, nothing about God's so-called "plan" makes sense.

Essentially, faithful people aligned with God are supposed triumph in the end over Satan and evil. But none of that makes sense when you consider that God is supposed to have created all the people (good or bad) along with Satan and knew all along what would happen. It would basically be analogous to one of us carefully planning a board game, carving all the pieces, making all the rules, creating the board, and then playing all the pieces (from both sides) so that one side beat the other. What would the point in all that be? If Christianity is true, it implies that God is very bored.

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:52 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:if you are going to make a guess make sure you won't be alive to hear people say "you got that wrong"....

It's not a guess, it's based on a mathematical formula which is in turn based on the observable, ongoing accelerated expansion of the universe.

so have they worked out what dark energy and dark matter is yet?? other than it makes up a huge part of the universe but isn't actually detectable... Smile

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:58 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:if you are going to make a guess make sure you won't be alive to hear people say "you got that wrong"....

It's not a guess, it's based on a mathematical formula which is in turn based on the observable, ongoing accelerated expansion of the universe.

so have they worked out what dark energy and dark matter is yet?? other than it makes up a huge part of the universe but isn't actually detectable...

There have been some tantalizing events that suggest dark matter or dark energy, but it's yet to be directly detected. Regardless of that, something is making galaxies fly apart from one another, and I'd assume this theory is based more on that phenomenon rather than worrying about the why of it all.

It would be a bit like calculating how long it would take a car travelling at 60 mph to reach a certain destination -- the math of that doesn't have to take into consideration whether the car is gas, diesel or electric ...

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:03 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so have they worked out what dark energy and dark matter is yet?? other than it makes up a huge part of the universe but isn't actually detectable...

There have been some tantalizing events that suggest dark matter or dark energy, but it's yet to be directly detected. Regardless of that, something is making galaxies fly apart from one another, and I'd assume this theory is based more on that phenomenon rather than worrying about the why of it all.

It would be a bit like calculating how long it would take a car travelling at 60 mph to reach a certain destination -- the math of that doesn't have to take into consideration whether the car is gas, diesel or electric ...

but it does have to take in to account anything that would affect the journey... and as they know, obviously, so little about what is actually out there how could they possibly make a formula that would be even close to allowing for all the possible unknowns...

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:08 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so have they worked out what dark energy and dark matter is yet?? other than it makes up a huge part of the universe but isn't actually detectable...

There have been some tantalizing events that suggest dark matter or dark energy, but it's yet to be directly detected. Regardless of that, something is making galaxies fly apart from one another, and I'd assume this theory is based more on that phenomenon rather than worrying about the why of it all.

It would be a bit like calculating how long it would take a car travelling at 60 mph to reach a certain destination -- the math of that doesn't have to take into consideration whether the car is gas, diesel or electric ...

but it does have to take in to account anything that would affect the journey... and as they know, obviously, so little about what is actually out there how could they possibly make a formula that would be even close to allowing for all the possible unknowns...

From the Guardian:

“The only thing we definitely know is that the universe is expanding and that the rate is accelerating,” said Disconzi. “That’s about the only thing we know for sure.”

The latest work suggests that this acceleration may become faster and faster until every point in space itself is moving apart at an infinite rate – at which point the Big Rip occurs.

“Mathematically we know what this means,” said Disconzi. “But what it actually means in physical terms is hard to fathom.”

The evidence for an accelerating expansion comes from observations of distant supernovae. The further away they are the redder they appear, because the light has been stretched out as it travels through space to reach us.

In other words, they're making a prediction based on what is known, and aren't claiming to know things they don't know.

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

but it does have to take in to account anything that would affect the journey... and as they know, obviously, so little about what is actually out there how could they possibly make a formula that would be even close to allowing for all the possible unknowns...

From the Guardian:

“The only thing we definitely know is that the universe is expanding and that the rate is accelerating,” said Disconzi. “That’s about the only thing we know for sure.”

The latest work suggests that this acceleration may become faster and faster until every point in space itself is moving apart at an infinite rate – at which point the Big Rip occurs.

“Mathematically we know what this means,” said Disconzi. “But what it actually means in physical terms is hard to fathom.”

The evidence for an accelerating expansion comes from observations of distant supernovae. The further away they are the redder they appear, because the light has been stretched out as it travels through space to reach us.

In other words, they're making a prediction based on what is known, and aren't claiming to know things they don't know.

so in English, it's just a guess and it is so far in the future they won't be around to be held accountable, which I believe i pretty much said in my first post on the topic.... Smile

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:15 pm

No, it's a projection.

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:19 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
stardesk wrote:Evening folks. The end of our planet, or Solar System, or the known universe, is inevitable. Nothing lasts forever and it certainly isn't at the hands of god. I learned some years ago that the Lyra constellation was slowing heading towards our system, eventually causing its demise. Then of course we have the sun, which is now middle aged, eventually expanding and engulfing the solar system. And another possible cause is a rogue asteroid which may one day slam into Earth and wham, the end of life, as with the dinosaurs.

I wonder how HF will answer those possibilities.

well i could ask how you know that the lyra constellation is getting nearer, how you know the sun is middle aged and how you know an asteroid will eventually hit the planet...

or I could say all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will....

your statement that....... "all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will.... :"
does not match the question you asked

It is actually absurdly simple to tell with a fair degree of accuracy if lyra will collide with sol.....

all you need is a decent telescope, a camera a spectrometer and some maths, then you can work out which way its moving and how fast (both relative to how we in the sol system are moving, and hence tell if the two paths will intercept...Its actually quite basic trigonometry....

the age of the sun can be estimated from comparison with other stars of the same type, but obviously different ages......(really basic chemistry with a bit of nuclear physics will get you through that one)

and finally asteroid strikes have happened with almost boring regularity throughout the history of earth, so its only a case of when rather than if...

now in relation to your statement, actually I cannot fault it as a statement since there is no way of proving either way...

It si indeed either a case of "grand design" OR random chance...

now effectively that means nothing, since the end result will be the same either way....a big fat SPLAT......
also two of the events described by Star are so far removed in time from the present as to be meaningless.....(indeed unless humanity changes markely it seems unlikely mankind will be around to witness either)

the third could happen anytime..we only know of about 10% of near earth objects , even those of significant size i.e bigger than say 400m across.

there is however one question that arises from the "god did it" scenario, that of simply WHY ?

why not just snap his fingers so to speak?

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:25 pm

mentor wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

well i could ask how you know that the lyra constellation is getting nearer, how you know the sun is middle aged and how you know an asteroid will eventually hit the planet...

or I could say all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will....

your statement that....... "all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will.... :"
does not match the question you asked

It is actually absurdly simple to tell with a fair degree of accuracy if lyra will collide with sol.....

all you need is a decent telescope, a camera a spectrometer and some maths, then you can work out which way its moving and how fast (both relative to how we in the sol system are moving, and hence tell if the two paths will intercept...Its actually quite basic trigonometry....

the age of the sun can be estimated from comparison with other stars of the same type, but obviously different ages......(really basic chemistry with a bit of nuclear physics will get you through that one)

and finally asteroid strikes have happened with almost boring regularity throughout the history of earth, so its only a case of when rather than if...

now in relation to your statement, actually I cannot fault it as a statement since there is no way of proving either way...

It si indeed either a case of "grand design" OR random chance...

now effectively that means nothing, since the end result will be the same either way....a big fat SPLAT......
also two of the events described by Star are so far removed in time from the present as to be meaningless.....(indeed unless humanity changes markely it seems unlikely mankind will be around to witness either)

the third could happen anytime..we only know of about 10% of near earth objects , even those of significant size i.e bigger than say 400m across.

there is however one question that arises from the "god did it" scenario, that of simply WHY ?

why not just snap his fingers so to speak?

so go do the math if it is so simple, if i was you make the guess way in the future, as I said that way you won't be there to take the blame if you are wrong...

why did God do it. he has ordained a new heaven and a new earth, that must come to pass and it will in his timing, by then those who have chosen to follow Jesus will have done so... Smile

other than that I can't really say as I am not God... Smile

by Guest Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:45 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
mentor wrote:

your statement that....... "all these things are what God has set to happen and are doing so according to his will.... :"
does not match the question you asked

It is actually absurdly simple to tell with a fair degree of accuracy if lyra will collide with sol.....

all you need is a decent telescope, a camera a spectrometer and some maths, then you can work out which way its moving and how fast (both relative to how we in the sol system are moving, and hence tell if the two paths will intercept...Its actually quite basic trigonometry....

the age of the sun can be estimated from comparison with other stars of the same type, but obviously different ages......(really basic chemistry with a bit of nuclear physics will get you through that one)

and finally asteroid strikes have happened with almost boring regularity throughout the history of earth, so its only a case of when rather than if...

now in relation to your statement, actually I cannot fault it as a statement since there is no way of proving either way...

It si indeed either a case of "grand design" OR random chance...

now effectively that means nothing, since the end result will be the same either way....a big fat SPLAT......
also two of the events described by Star are so far removed in time from the present as to be meaningless.....(indeed unless humanity changes markely it seems unlikely mankind will be around to witness either)

the third could happen anytime..we only know of about 10% of near earth objects , even those of significant size i.e bigger than say 400m across.

there is however one question that arises from the "god did it" scenario, that of simply WHY ?

why not just snap his fingers so to speak?

so go do the math if it is so simple, if i was you make the guess way in the future, as I said that way you won't be there to take the blame if you are wrong...

why did God do it. he has ordained a new heaven and a new earth, that must come to pass and it will in his timing, by then those who have chosen to follow Jesus will have done so...

other than that I can't really say as I am not God...

sometime you are just a fatuous fool....

given yo know thw speed and direction of an object of course you can predict ist trajectory....
and obviously , given the immense distances involved, and the relatively puny speed of objects within space its going to take a long time for any system collision. That much should be obvious even to a simplton like you...

there isnt even any need to develop an argument over this, all you are doing is saying science is never right...even of the most basic kind....
which is pure idiocy....

this isnt even about something esoteric like tha nature of matter....

it is a simple mechanical fact ....like you can predict a collision of two vehicles on the road from their known paths.....

and te question isnt so much why did god do it as to why do it this complicated way.....

why not just wave hs hand and say let it be?

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 2190311264

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 2190311264

by stardesk Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:10 pm

Hi Mentor. I know that the future events I mentioned are way, way in the distant future. What I was getting at was if God exists and created everyrhing, why sit back and watch it all being destroyed. Why did he allow the dinosaurs to be eliminated? There are so many 'whys' that put God in the useless bracket. And to say that Satan did it is just so silly, because if he was capable of taking out God's handywork then, to my mind, that makes Satan a God on a par with God himself. Which, if you think about it, is not much different to the mythological gods and goddesses of Greece and many other countries, such as Roman and Egyptian deities.

I'll get back to you later or tomorrow about 'dark matter.' Bye for now.

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:16 am

mentor wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so go do the math if it is so simple, if i was you make the guess way in the future, as I said that way you won't be there to take the blame if you are wrong...

why did God do it. he has ordained a new heaven and a new earth, that must come to pass and it will in his timing, by then those who have chosen to follow Jesus will have done so...

other than that I can't really say as I am not God...

sometime you are just a fatuous fool....

given yo know thw speed and direction of an object of course you can predict ist trajectory....
and obviously , given the immense distances involved, and the relatively puny speed of objects within space its going to take a long time for any system collision. That much should be obvious even to a simplton like you...

there isnt even any need to develop an argument over this, all you are doing is saying science is never right...even of the most basic kind....
which is pure idiocy....

this isnt even about something esoteric like tha nature of matter....

it is a simple mechanical fact ....like you can predict a collision of two vehicles on the road from their known paths.....

and te question isnt so much why did god do it as to why do it this complicated way.....

why not just wave hs hand and say let it be?

i hear you so calculate it..... but how do you know the affect of black matter and black energy when you cannot detect either or know the effects of either...

because God does things in good order in his own time, when you have the luxury of eternity it kinda helps you chill i suppose...

the wheat needs to be sorted from the chaff at the appointed time it will all come to pass... Smile

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:21 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
mentor wrote:

sometime you are just a fatuous fool....

given yo know thw speed and direction of an object of course you can predict ist trajectory....
and obviously , given the immense distances involved, and the relatively puny speed of objects within space its going to take a long time for any system collision. That much should be obvious even to a simplton like you...

there isnt even any need to develop an argument over this, all you are doing is saying science is never right...even of the most basic kind....
which is pure idiocy....

this isnt even about something esoteric like tha nature of matter....

it is a simple mechanical fact ....like you can predict a collision of two vehicles on the road from their known paths.....

and te question isnt so much why did god do it as to why do it this complicated way.....

why not just wave hs hand and say let it be?

i here you so calculate it..... but how do you know the affect of black matter and black energy when you cannot detect either or know the effects of either...

you dont need to know either..simply becasue unless these things have some odd property never observed before that only operates when lyra heads for sol....its irrelevant.

the simple newtonian mathematics have been observed to be sufficient in system collisions a number of times

because God does things in good order in his own time, when you have the luxury of eternity it kinda helps you chill i suppose...

the wheat needs to be sorted from the chaff at the appointed time it will all come to pass...

by stardesk Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:42 pm

If God did it, then why oh why sit back and watch it being destroyed? Unless of course he did his creating just for fun, to pass the time away. If you went to a lot of trouble and expense making something, would you then sit back and watch someone come along and chop it up? Of course not. You'd step in and try to save your creation.

DARK MATTER, Briefly:
At the moment there isn’t much known to allow physicists to explain dark matter. It has to be able to interact with normal matter via gravity, and yet in order to remain hidden it cannot interact with light. Physicists have come up with a new type of particle: Weakly Interactive Massive Particles, (WIMPs). They are weakly interacting because they don’t interact with light, and massive because they interact via gravity.

Various explanations have been considered, including MACHOs, standing for Massive Compact Halo Objects. The idea is that there are big objects such as black holes ghosting unseen through the Milky Way. Observations and modelling of the early Universe has cast doubts over this idea and for now, WIMPs are definitely the frontrunner. But, it has been assumed that dark matter exists, but what if it doesn’t? What if it’s a phantom, a symptom of the fact that we don’t understand gravity properly?

I’ll leave it there for now. Perhaps a bit more later.

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:46 pm

Cuchulain wrote:Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.

The Ark project?
As in Noah's Ark?
that's a hell of a statement for an atheist ! lol!

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:50 pm

Nems wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.
The Ark project?
As in Noah's Ark?
that's a hell of a statement for an atheist !

Its the irony behind the biblical story and the science needed to build such an ark Nems to carry to of every species and the logistics to feed them all for 40 days and nights.
Sorry if this was way above your head.

lol!

by stardesk Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:55 pm

Nems wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:Thank goodness we do not have people like HF running science projects, no doubt he would still be stuck on the ark project.
The Ark project?
As in Noah's Ark?
that's a hell of a statement for an atheist !

Hi Nems. Noah's Ark, and all the animals going into it, is one of the greatest fantasy stories ever written. If it was written today the author would receive a literary award for the best fantasy story of the decade.

Hi Cuch.' They were on the Ark for 150 days, until the waters receeded. Phew, they would have needed a fleet of arks to carry all the food.

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:00 pm

stardesk wrote:
Nems wrote:
The Ark project?
As in Noah's Ark?
that's a hell of a statement for an atheist !

Hi Nems. Noah's Ark, and all the animals going into it, is one of the greatest fantasy stories ever written. If it was written today the author would receive a literary award for the best fantasy story of the decade.

Hi Cuch.' They were on the Ark for 150 days, until the waters receeded. Phew, they would have needed a fleet of arks to carry all the food.

Do you think? I preferred Moses and the parting of the Red Sea.

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:18 pm

Nems wrote:
stardesk wrote:

Hi Nems. Noah's Ark, and all the animals going into it, is one of the greatest fantasy stories ever written. If it was written today the author would receive a literary award for the best fantasy story of the decade.

Hi Cuch.' They were on the Ark for 150 days, until the waters receeded. Phew, they would have needed a fleet of arks to carry all the food.

Do you think? I preferred Moses and the parting of the Red Sea.

Nah, a Tsunami could explain a parting of the sea for a limited time.
An ark to house two of all species and for them to be caught and collected. To fit within this vessel, well that really would be impressive.

HI Stardesk

The logistic for such a task would be staggering.

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:03 pm

stardesk wrote:
Nems wrote:
The Ark project?
As in Noah's Ark?
that's a hell of a statement for an atheist !

Hi Nems. Noah's Ark, and all the animals going into it, is one of the greatest fantasy stories ever written. If it was written today the author would receive a literary award for the best fantasy story of the decade.

Hi Cuch.' They were on the Ark for 150 days, until the waters receeded. Phew, they would have needed a fleet of arks to carry all the food.

lol the big bang non theory and evolution, myth and non legend..lol

oh and guessing what will happen in 22 billion years wow that's well testable, observable and repeatable...lol

the religion of science, man telling man what might of happened if they actually knew, secure in the knowledge the man they tell can never test it.... Suspect

by Guest Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:01 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Nems wrote:

Do you think? I preferred Moses and the parting of the Red Sea.

Nah, a Tsunami could explain a parting of the sea for a limited time.
An ark to house two of all species and for them to be caught and collected. To fit within this vessel, well that really would be impressive.

HI Stardesk

The logistic for such a task would be staggering.

Nah, couple of Polish carpenters would have been all over it in three days

by stardesk Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:03 pm

Hi folks. Excellent replies, worth a chuckle or two.

Another fantasy tale was the 7 plagues of Egypt. They have been well investigated and the causes analysed. One example is 'The river ran red with blood.' This was only an extreme algae affair, which, taking oxygen out of the water, fish would have died. Thousands of fish laying dead on the banks would have caused plagues of flies etc, these may well have been the cause of diseases and death of people. Locusts, as most people know, do swarm in huge clouds, devouring crops etc as they go.

A fine example of the river turning red happened 5 or 6 years ago in India. I forget which river, but did turn red much to the horror of local people, but of course it was just algae, nothing mysterious.

There are logical explanations for just about every calamity in the OT. But to the primitve minds at the time, they could only explain such events as a divine intervention

As for Noah's Ark, crikey! He would have needed a ship twice the size of the largest ship that now exists. No wonder the Middle East has so many deserts, he would have to have cut down all the trees for planks.

by groomsy Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:42 pm

God = Satan
Satan = God

#oneinthesame
#pipebomb

by Vintage Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:33 pm

The universe is expanding apparently, yet there seem to be a good number of black holes, whch apparently suck in everything that comes within reach of them, how come space around them has not become devoid of any material that can be absorbed into them.

by stardesk Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Hi Vintage. I think what you will find is a similar event that happens with most stars & planets etc, gravity. If anything comes within the gravity field then it'll be sucked in.

by Ben Reilly Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:52 pm

Vintage wrote:The universe is expanding apparently, yet there seem to be a good number of black holes, whch apparently suck in everything that comes within reach of them, how come space around them has not become devoid of any material that can be absorbed into them.

Because space is so enormous and the distances between material objects is so great. Think about this -- our moon is by far the closest natural object to us in space, yet it's still nearly a quarter-million miles away. (Good thing, too, because gravity's pull is stronger the closer two objects are together.)

Another example of how space distances are bigger than we tend to think -- the asteroid "belt" between Mars and Jupiter. We tend to think it looks like this:

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim KrykasAsteroidField2

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim KrykasAsteroidField2

In reality, the asteroids are spaced apart from one another, on average, 600,000 miles on every side.

One more example -- Voyager 1 was launched in 1977 and didn't make it out of the solar system until 2012. Its average speed over that 35-year journey was 35,000 mph, no stops to eat or go to the bathroom Smile

by stardesk Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:30 pm

Hi Ben. Type into your search box on your home-page Rosetta.
It's the name of a probe sent out to the asteroid belt. One of the first things it has found on the asteroid is water ice! I'm sure that one day the basic ingredients for life will be found on asteroids and other planets.

by Vintage Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:35 pm

Ok thanks for the replies but does it mean that there are vast areas of nothing around black holes at least on occassions until space is pulled or drifts into the area of the black hole with planets, debris or light etc. Space can be warped - at least in theory so it must have the potential to be sucked in itself not just objects in the space, rather like a table cloth through a curtain ring. So if there were enough black holes could the expansion of the big bang be slowed or even stopped by them in a sort of stale mate of energy?

by Guest Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:12 pm

HI Stardesk

There is one natural disaster that happens on the earth that can provide possible explanations of the 10 plagues of Egypt. Though it would be more accurate to say they were not plagues, but commonly found after effects from many volcanic eruption. There was such an eruption so massive, it would have devastated a very wide area a couple of hundred years before the exodus and near to Egypt.

That eruption was Santorini

Recent research, by a team of international scientists in 2006, revealed that the Santorini event was much larger than the original estimate of 39 km3 (9.4 cu mi) of Dense-Rock Equivalent (DRE), or total volume of material erupted from the volcano, that was published in 1991.[1] With an estimated DRE in excess of 60 km3 (14 cu mi),[1][6] the volume of ejecta was approximately 100 km3 (24 cu mi).[11] If so, the eruption's Volcanic Explosivity Index was 7. The volcano ejected up to four times as much as the well-recorded eruption by Krakatoa in 1883. The Thera volcanic events and subsequent ashfall probably sterilized the island, as occurred on Krakatoa. Only the Mount Tambora volcanic eruption of 1815, Lake Taupo's Hatepe eruption around 180 CE, and perhaps the Baekdu Mountain eruption around 970 CE released more material into the atmosphere during historic times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption#Magnitude

Of course the timelines do not match of when Santorini erupted and the date claimed for the exodus. The feasibility does not require the actual exodus of the Israelite's. the plagues sent does not have to happen when the A ten/Yahweh worshipers were kicked out of Egypt. I think the event was so devastating, it was etched into the memories of the following generations via traditions. The exodus story sounds miles better, f you can add the supernatural intervention of a deity as his work. Such vents would have been remembered so they used an event of the past to explain their escape.

To show there is a feasible explanation for many of the plagues caused by a volcanic eruption. Here are the following possibilities:

The red seas parting of the waves. What happens from a massive volcanic eruption when they are an Island like Santerini, is a very large Tsunami. The Mediterranean sea levels on he coast of Egypt would have been drawn away from the coast for a short. Then the next thing they would see would be a monster wave This would have seemed as if the sea had been parted based on the supernatural views held for the time.

We have the plague of the darkness stretched fourth over the land of Egypt. Due to the magnitude of this eruption, the skies would have been darkened for months from the fallout ash ejected into the atmosphere.

God sends thunder and hail down. Well the people of the Minoan Islands would have had fiery stones and rock rain down on them. Of course even the Egyptians could have experienced this to a lesser degree based on its relatively close proximity to Santorini. Even without the latter last point, the Minoians traded with the Egyptians and this devastation would have spread through this known world at this time. As I say I am not trying to match the plagues in their order written in the bible, but explaining how such a dramatic event could have easily been adsorbed into the bible. Again using a natural event and its effects over that year of the eruption, would have been seen back then as an act of God. The Israelite's then incorporate this real event that happened a couple of centuries before the exodus to happening at the actual exodus and being hen seen as the power of this God. So good is this story, it is believed by many today.

Again just want to show you the feasibility of the plagues. being actual events to this eruption.

Blains and boils.
Well after the Mount St Helen eruption (which was huge and pails into comparison of Santorini ) hundreds of people were taken to hospital to treat skin sores and rashes, wait for it. caused by their skins being exposed tot he acidic fallout ash.

Now we can really start to see the same patterns described.

Livestock would die, as it did with the eruption of Mount St Helen's and in this case animals had to be destroyed. This is caused by the prolonged exposure to the inhalation of the volcanic dust. So this covers the plague of all the livestock of Egypt died. With Mount St Helen fish also died and ere found floating on the surface of hundreds of Kilometers of water ways. Water had to be cut off until the impurities could be filtered from the reservoirs. So there is your dead fish.

Some Volcanoes dependent on their rock geology blast into the air Iron oxide, which is found in abundance on the surface of Mars. Again it would certainly seem as if the water had to turn red from the massive fallout of the explosion. This no doubt would have occurred more likely on the surrounding Minoan Islands.

The Frogs, flies, locusts and lice.
Well this would have certainly happened later after the eruption. Volcanic eruptions effect the entire ecosystem. If many animal numbers have been decimated, then groups unaffected by an eruption thrive. All these types here produce at an alarming rate in order just for the species have some survivors at of the millions of eggs they lay. If only a relative few normally survive to adulthood then what happens when the ecosystem has been devastated? The lava, pupal would be protected from harm from an eruption. In many cases insects and invertebrates lay their new born would be safe under ground. Frog spawn would be protected being placed under submerged ledges.

The result of such a devastation of predators would mean the young would emerge in staggering numbers. Again after Mount St Helen's erupted, later on the state of Washington was plagued countless frogs everywhere. After the Mount Pelee eruption, they were later plagued by flying ants.

None of the above are my ideas, but a hypothesis I read sometime back,. As seen it can explain the plagues incorporated into the Exodus narrative. I think the Santorini eruption would have been catastrophic for the ancient world back then. The after effects would have seemed supernatural for the time as already said. Hence why it is no wonder the biblical writers plagiarized this event, which had noting to do with the exodus based on the difference in time frame They have a natural event they can now pass off as the actions of their God and even worse claim this is what provided their freedom.

As I say it does not follow the timeline of the plagues in the exodus story. It does not need to as the eruption happened in 1600 BC. All I wanted to show is how a real natural event is easily and wrongly mistaken for the power of a God.

A volcano can explain away the types of plagues written about. Maybe not all ten happening with each eruption, but a majority of them can and do occur after eruptions.

Right have gone on to long lol

Havea good evening

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:21 pm

Nobody knows is the real answer... as I was saying on the other thread about gravity where KD worked himself into a frenzy...

by Guest Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Nobody knows is the real answer... as I was saying on the other thread about gravity where KD worked himself into a frenzy...

Big Rip will end the universe, scientists claim 3408175593

::::cawg:::::The only person in a frenzy was you Tommy because your a ~~bit~~ very thick and still delusional but i notice you still need to mention me (do you fancy me or something ) begging for support

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:36 pm

I'm clever enough to know that we don't really know...

lol!

by Guest Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:39 pm

Vintage wrote:Ok thanks for the replies but does it mean that there are vast areas of nothing around black holes at least on occassions until space is pulled or drifts into the area of the black hole with planets, debris or light etc. Space can be warped - at least in theory so it must have the potential to be sucked in itself not just objects in the space, rather like a table cloth through a curtain ring. So if there were enough black holes could the expansion of the big bang be slowed or even stopped by them in a sort of stale mate of energy?

I dont thiunk blak holes wuld have that much effect for 2 reasons

firstly black holes tend to be planetary or stellar in size, (as opposed to galaxy sized) so the gravitational force they exert is small in comparison to the galaxy they exist within. This size is apparantly limited too, if they get above a certain size they.....well no one is quite sure of anything except that they appear above a certain size to evaporate...yeah OK...I know......

Secondly IF they were able to exert sufficient force to stop the universe expanding, they most likely already would have done

the question here is whether the RATE of expansion is steady or has it increased/decreased??

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