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Post by eddie Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:01 am

I rarely do this but I’m going to do it now.

I lived with black people, women and men,  for the best part of twelve years. I had whole groups of black friends, I knew their parents and their kids. When I say I lived among black people I mean that I really lived among them.

Know what?  They fucking detest the white man who pretends they’re not seeing a black person.

Know what I never did? Pretend that there was no difference between us. I would openly debate, discuss and talk to them about being black, their food, their different parenting styles (yes they exist!), their thoughts and feelings.

Know what else? I never really came across any black people who felt that whites hated them. They never really came across white people who felt superior to them. It really wasn’t a major problem - and this was the eighties and nineties.

You know what they hated the most?
“Those white people who go out of their way to treat us really well...it’s so transparent”

That’s a direct quote from a black guy who shared a joint with me one night. I’ve never forgotten it.

People who suffer from this white guilt complex are doing a major disservice to black people. You’re patronising them. Sure, there’s a problem among some police officers and young black men, (I saw it firsthand, believe me), but in the main, it’s this “white guilt group” who keep perpetuating the pain and suffering that most intelligent black people know is just utter bullshit.

Stop it. It’s absolutely sickening.

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Post by HoratioTarr Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:25 pm

Yep. One of my most beloved friends is West Indian. The other close mate is mixed race. We've known each other for over 30 years. Both have come up against racism, and ironically both said the worst racism they suffered was during visits to the States.

The West Indian friend has retired to Dominica, and we speak every week or so via Facetime. I cried buckets when she left the UK...I miss her so much. The laughs we've had.

I have to agree with most of what Eddie says but I never really 'saw' the colour. To me, they are just my mates and I love them.
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Post by HoratioTarr Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:28 pm

I think more damage is being done with all this BLM stuff and white apologising for colonial pasts shite than can be measured. It's like a form of hysteria. The great silent majority, and that includes black, white and sky blue pink, don't give a shit. All we want to do is get on and live our lives with as little fuss as possible. But these woke idiots won't let us.
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Post by Maddog Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:34 pm

eddie wrote:I rarely do this but I’m going to do it now.

I lived with black people, women and men,  for the best part of twelve years. I had whole groups of black friends, I knew their parents and their kids. When I say I lived among black people I mean that I really lived among them.

Know what?  They fucking detest the white man who pretends they’re not seeing a black person.  

Know what I never did? Pretend that there was no difference between us. I would openly debate, discuss and talk to them about being black, their food, their different parenting styles (yes they exist!), their thoughts and feelings.

Know what else? I never really came across any black people who felt that whites hated them. They never really came across white people who felt superior to them. It really wasn’t a major problem - and this was the eighties and nineties.

You know what they hated the most?
“Those white people who go out of their way to treat us really well...it’s so transparent”

That’s a direct quote from a black guy who shared a joint with me one night. I’ve never forgotten it.

People who suffer from this white guilt complex are doing a major disservice to black people. You’re patronising them. Sure, there’s a problem among some police officers and young black men, (I saw it firsthand, believe me), but in the main, it’s this “white guilt group” who keep perpetuating the pain and suffering that most intelligent black people know is just utter bullshit.

Stop it. It’s absolutely sickening.

I would say people avoid discussions and interactions because they just don't want to hear about how they did something wrong.

So much of what we do now separates us, instead of bringing us together. I think a lot of that is done be design. If you're in the business of exploiting amd pandering, you don't want a solution.

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Post by Original Quill Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:36 pm

eddie wrote:Know what? They fucking detest the white man who pretends they’re not seeing a black person.

Know what? That's the line they give to all the white missus and massers.

What are they going to say to you? Fcs, you’re white. You hold the cards: they are going to say what you want to hear.

There's an old book titled Uncle Remus, written by Joel Chandler Harris (made into a movie by Disney, titled Songs of the South (1946)).

Harris used a phrase in his book: Zippa-de-do-dah, which was later made into a song by Disney. That phrase meant: the bullshit that slaves would tell the massa, because as inferior beings they couldn't be frank. They would say: "I jus zippa-da-do-dah'ed dat man so's he dint know wha’s goin on.

Now, whenever someone tries to tell me that "some of my best friends are black", that old song starts playing in my head: Zippa-da-do-dah...watta wonnerful day...

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Original Quill Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:44 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:I rarely do this but I’m going to do it now.

I lived with black people, women and men,  for the best part of twelve years. I had whole groups of black friends, I knew their parents and their kids. When I say I lived among black people I mean that I really lived among them.

Know what?  They fucking detest the white man who pretends they’re not seeing a black person.  

Know what I never did? Pretend that there was no difference between us. I would openly debate, discuss and talk to them about being black, their food, their different parenting styles (yes they exist!), their thoughts and feelings.

Know what else? I never really came across any black people who felt that whites hated them. They never really came across white people who felt superior to them. It really wasn’t a major problem - and this was the eighties and nineties.

You know what they hated the most?
“Those white people who go out of their way to treat us really well...it’s so transparent”

That’s a direct quote from a black guy who shared a joint with me one night. I’ve never forgotten it.

People who suffer from this white guilt complex are doing a major disservice to black people. You’re patronising them. Sure, there’s a problem among some police officers and young black men, (I saw it firsthand, believe me), but in the main, it’s this “white guilt group” who keep perpetuating the pain and suffering that most intelligent black people know is just utter bullshit.

Stop it. It’s absolutely sickening.

I would say people avoid discussions and interactions because they just don't want to hear about how they did something wrong.  

So much of what we do now separates us, instead of bringing us together.  I think a lot of that is done be design.  If you're in the business of exploiting amd pandering, you don't want a solution.  

That is precisely why I don't think the north and the south of the US, can ever get along. They are so far apart in their ideology, that they don't want a solution. They are better off with Amexit.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:22 pm





The muslim ottoman empire had slavery for centuries, even into the 1900's.


And white Europeans were still being used and sold in slave markets there, for nearly a century after slavery was banned by the UK.


Slavery still goes on in Africa, blacks still have black slaves, and we see ISIS (doing islam by the book) and their slavery still today too!




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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The muslim ottoman empire had slavery for centuries, even into the 1900's.

Did the Ottomans build a nation on the opposite principle ... equality? Did they state in their founding documents, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...?

See, the duplicity is what is tearing America apart, not necessarily slavery (or its legacy). From the civil war, to the January 6th insurrection on the Capitol, it’s the two different belief systems, two different cultures. Southerners want to perpetuate class differences based on skin color, while northerners want to enforce the noble principle of mathematical equality. In a sense, slavery is just the symptom caught in the middle.

You can't have a single nation, with two diametrically contradictory belief systems. Somewhere you're going to have a conflict of law situation...not to mention the offensive insult that a southern principle of white supremacy does to the northern sense of justice. If it were just two different cultures, it would be one thing; but this is two different cultures, with diametrically different commitments … the mere presence of each, constantly offending the other.

Of course, tommy...I think you are right in your sense that the duplicity is going to continue as long as we try to force a single set of laws and mores upon two different, antagonistic cultures. With the duplicity, comes the conflict. The US is going to be in a perpetual state of conflict, unless and until we separate the two cultures.

Amexit. Wink

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by HoratioTarr Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The muslim ottoman empire had slavery for centuries, even into the 1900's.

Did the Ottomans build a nation on the opposite principle ... equality?  Did they state in their founding documents, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...?

See, the duplicity is what is tearing America apart, not necessarily slavery (or its legacy).  From the civil war, to the January 6th insurrection on the Capitol, it’s the two different belief systems, two different cultures.  Southerners want to perpetuate class differences based on skin color, while northerners want to enforce the noble principle of mathematical equality.  In a sense, slavery is just the symptom caught in the middle.

You can't have a single nation, with two diametrically contradictory belief systems.  Somewhere you're going to have a conflict of law situation...not to mention the offensive insult that a southern principle of white supremacy does to the northern sense of justice.  If it were just two different cultures, it would be one thing; but this is two different cultures, with diametrically different commitments … the mere presence of each, constantly offending the other.

Of course, tommy...I think you are right in your sense that the duplicity is going to continue as long as we try to force a single set of laws and mores upon two different, antagonistic cultures.  With the duplicity, comes the conflict.  The US is going to be in a perpetual state of conflict, unless and until we separate the two cultures.

Amexit.   Wink

What about the multiculturalism? Isn't that diametrically contradictory belief systems?
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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:56 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Did the Ottomans build a nation on the opposite principle ... equality? Did they state in their founding documents, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...?

See, the duplicity is what is tearing America apart, not necessarily slavery (or its legacy). From the civil war, to the January 6th insurrection on the Capitol, it’s the two different belief systems, two different cultures. Southerners want to perpetuate class differences based on skin color, while northerners want to enforce the noble principle of mathematical equality. In a sense, slavery is just the symptom caught in the middle.

You can't have a single nation, with two diametrically contradictory belief systems. Somewhere you're going to have a conflict of law situation...not to mention the offensive insult that a southern principle of white supremacy does to the northern sense of justice. If it were just two different cultures, it would be one thing; but this is two different cultures, with diametrically different commitments … the mere presence of each, constantly offending the other.

Of course, tommy...I think you are right in your sense that the duplicity is going to continue as long as we try to force a single set of laws and mores upon two different, antagonistic cultures. With the duplicity, comes the conflict. The US is going to be in a perpetual state of conflict, unless and until we separate the two cultures.

Amexit. Wink

What about the multiculturalism? Isn't that diametrically contradictory belief systems?

Excellent question. Multiculturalism is good when the fundamental values may be inconsistent, but do not conflict. It’s only when they conflict in a direct way (><) that the problem starts. If one starts with a nation with one faction that says: I stand by the rights and dignity of man, and equality of all; but, have another faction that says: ...as long as I get to own another human being as some sort of chattel; then you have direct, mutually inconsistent premises. Not only that, but it is over a fundamental moral issue of who are we?

There is nothing wrong with side-by-side values, when there's no diametric conflict. But if it's a direct 'I do/I don't' on the same issue, then you have an insurmountable rift. Unfortunately, that is the state of affairs of the US. I realize that slavery has been outlawed, but the same 'I'm better' frame-of-mind still persists in southern culture, and as long as that is the case there will be incessant war (unless we choose to end it peacefully…Amexit).

The black man is merely the matter of the discussion. The real antagonism is between northerners and southerners, and their fundamental moral beliefs about human dignity. It's almost a religious question.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:19 am

Half the fucking state of Cali has moved to Texas during the past decade. They must be able to handle the different culture, lol.

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:10 pm

It's simple -- don't feel guilty about anything you didn't personally do.

If you're upset that the current system in America still favors white people, that's not guilt -- that's called having a sense of fairness.

I can know that the system's fucked up in some ways without feeling any guilt about it, because it's not my fault.

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Post by eddie Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Know what?  They fucking detest the white man who pretends they’re not seeing a black person.

Know what?  That's the line they give to all the white missus and massers.

What are they going to say to you?  Fcs, you’re white.  You hold the cards: they are going to say what you want to hear.

There's an old book titled Uncle Remus, written by Joel Chandler Harris (made into a movie by Disney, titled Songs of the South (1946)).

Harris used a phrase in his book: Zippa-de-do-dah, which was later made into a song by Disney.  That phrase meant: the bullshit that slaves would tell the massa, because as inferior beings they couldn't be frank.  They would say: "I jus zippa-da-do-dah'ed dat man so's he dint know wha’s goin on.

Now, whenever someone tries to tell me that "some of my best friends are black", that old song starts playing in my head: Zippa-da-do-dah...watta wonnerful day...


I think you’re living in another century. Do you go out and mix with real people?

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Post by gelico Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:13 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Know what?  That's the line they give to all the white missus and massers.

What are they going to say to you?  Fcs, you’re white.  You hold the cards: they are going to say what you want to hear.

There's an old book titled Uncle Remus, written by Joel Chandler Harris (made into a movie by Disney, titled Songs of the South (1946)).

Harris used a phrase in his book: Zippa-de-do-dah, which was later made into a song by Disney.  That phrase meant: the bullshit that slaves would tell the massa, because as inferior beings they couldn't be frank.  They would say: "I jus zippa-da-do-dah'ed dat man so's he dint know wha’s goin on.

Now, whenever someone tries to tell me that "some of my best friends are black", that old song starts playing in my head: Zippa-da-do-dah...watta wonnerful day...


I think you’re living in another century. Do you go out and mix with real people?


not black people


he already said that much before


he doesn't need to personally know or interact with any black person in order to know exactly how they feel what they think what they want and ultimately how oppressed they all are.

because they're not really individuals who think for themselves they are oppressed slaves who feel they have to lie to you eddie

don't you get it?


Rolling Eyes

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Post by eddie Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:15 pm

Yes, I see it clearly now. It’s like, you don’t have to actually learn anything from living life in the real world.
You can just learn everything from a book someone else wrote.

Voila!

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Post by Maddog Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:16 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Know what?  That's the line they give to all the white missus and massers.

What are they going to say to you?  Fcs, you’re white.  You hold the cards: they are going to say what you want to hear.

There's an old book titled Uncle Remus, written by Joel Chandler Harris (made into a movie by Disney, titled Songs of the South (1946)).

Harris used a phrase in his book: Zippa-de-do-dah, which was later made into a song by Disney.  That phrase meant: the bullshit that slaves would tell the massa, because as inferior beings they couldn't be frank.  They would say: "I jus zippa-da-do-dah'ed dat man so's he dint know wha’s goin on.

Now, whenever someone tries to tell me that "some of my best friends are black", that old song starts playing in my head: Zippa-da-do-dah...watta wonnerful day...


I think you’re living in another century. Do you go out and mix with real people?

He sends his Thai housekeeper to do that.

She reports back to him how real people are acting.

Saves him time to report here on conditions in Texas where his daughter lives.

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Post by eddie Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:45 pm

Quill, did you read my Romanian bus driver thread? Might change your mind about Eastern European men all being child traffickers...?

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Post by Original Quill Sat May 01, 2021 3:10 am

eddie wrote:Quill, did you read my Romanian bus driver thread? Might change your mind about Eastern European men all being child traffickers...?

I never said all eastern European men are child traffickers. If you want' to expand that, I never said all Italians are racketeers. I said that child trafficking is presently big among eastern European criminals, just as Sicilians were big in US racketeering. You've misplaced the emphasis.

What I will say is that eastern European criminals have reached to top of the political pinnacle, such that whatever is their business is the business of people in political power.

Yes, I am saying that odds are that Putin is in the prostitution business. Face it, the Russian mafia has taken over the Russian state, and so what is big business in eastern Europe, is big business in Russian politics.

The connection to America seems to be that Trump is also interested in the business of trafficking of women. Look at how he behaved as owner of the Miss Universe Pageant. Then there is the infamous pee tape taken of him in the Moscow Ritz Carlton Hotel. His own admission in the Access Hollywood tape was that he could grab pussy whenever he wanted.

That's why he was too close to Epstein (and might have had him executed). The entire Republican Party seems to have an interest in sex trafficking, as we see feds closing in on Rep. Matt Gaetz. Sex trafficking is very big with the eastern European, and it's appears to be very big with Republicans. And...right now, Republicans and eastern Europeans, particularly Russians, are very intimate. Twisted Evil

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by eddie Sat May 01, 2021 10:42 am

Yeah...but you DID say it. More than once.

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Post by Original Quill Sat May 01, 2021 4:46 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah...but you DID say it. More than once.

Well, now that you understand my argument better, we can move on in addressing the overall problem.

So much has happened in the last few decades, I don't know which issue is paramount. Let’s take stock: One, Russia has given over to a criminal enterprise. Two, the primary criminal enterprise of eastern Europe, and thus Russia, is human trafficking. Three, human trafficking is uniquely heinous in the eyes of the west, and those engaging in it are particularly compromise-able.

Four, Russia has been able to entrap, through kompromat, a substantial part of the RW of western democracies…in particular the Republican Party, in the US. Five, the US is the strongest, and thus most dangerous western democracy in the world. Six, by captivating the Republican Party in the grip of kompromat, Russia has actually managed to turn a major party in the strongest western democracy, AGAINST DEMOCRACY.

This is a threat, not only to the US, but to all western democracies. Russia still has enough nuclear devices to annihilate the entire world, and—judging by the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko—it signifies it has neither conscience nor hesitation to do so.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Sat May 01, 2021 5:26 pm

Some folks always need a bogeyman.

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Post by Original Quill Sat May 01, 2021 7:02 pm

Maddog wrote:Some folks always need a bogeyman.

It doesn't need another meme, cliché, jingle or platitude. The RW has become so accomplished at hiding their contrivances that another buzzword would simply be another peel of the onion to be unraveled.

What it needs is recognition, and to be taken seriously. Y'all are helping the latter-day Stalin's (ie, criminal Russians) conduct espionage against the US, fgs. There was a time when that would have brought down the death penalty.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rosenbergs-executed

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

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Post by Maddog Sat May 01, 2021 7:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Some folks always need a bogeyman.

It doesn't need another meme, cliché, jingle or platitude.  The RW has become so accomplished at hiding their contrivances that another buzzword would simply be another peel of the onion to be unraveled.

What it needs is recognition, and to be taken seriously.  Y'all are helping the latter-day Stalin's (ie, criminal Russians) conduct espionage against the US, fgs.  There was a time when that would have brought down the death penalty.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rosenbergs-executed

The Russian government sucks and is meddlesome.

Nothing new there.

Relax, they aren't hiding under your bed.

The clowns in DC are a bigger threat to you than the clowns in Moscow.

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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill Sat May 01, 2021 7:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It doesn't need another meme, cliché, jingle or platitude.  The RW has become so accomplished at hiding their contrivances that another buzzword would simply be another peel of the onion to be unraveled.

What it needs is recognition, and to be taken seriously.  Y'all are helping the latter-day Stalin's (ie, criminal Russians) conduct espionage against the US, fgs.  There was a time when that would have brought down the death penalty.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rosenbergs-executed

The Russian government sucks and is meddlesome.

Nothing new there.  

Relax, they aren't hiding under your bed.

The clowns in DC are a bigger threat to you than the clowns in Moscow.

The Republican clowns in DC are in Moscow's pocket...or didn't you observe Trump, quivering after being berated by Putin in Helsinki?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

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Location : Northern California

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Post by Maddog Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm

Putin may be watching this forum. Best be careful about how you talk about him.

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
Maddog
Maddog
The newsfix Queen

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Post by Original Quill Sat May 01, 2021 9:04 pm

Maddog wrote:Putin may be watching this forum. Best be careful about how you talk about him.  

I'm more worried about Putin's tools...the Republicans. I have no doubt that Senator Lindsay Graham could kill in a heart-throb, and I strongly suspect that Trump has already done it. (How did I know, beforehand, that Epstein would not survive in a Federal holding cell?)

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

Posts : 36202
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 56
Location : Northern California

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White Guilt  Empty Re: White Guilt

Post by Maddog Sat May 01, 2021 9:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Putin may be watching this forum. Best be careful about how you talk about him.  

I'm more worried about Putin's tools...the Republicans.  I have no doubt that Senator Lindsay Graham could kill in a heart-throb, and I strongly suspect that Trump has already done it.  (How did I know, beforehand, that Epstein would not survive in a Federal holding cell?)

I'm sure they are watching too.

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
Maddog
Maddog
The newsfix Queen

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Location : Texas

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