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Well its been a while

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Post by Guest Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:58 pm

Hi folks
I am back Suspect

I was never really away i kept popping in to read what was going on and they where many times i wanted to comment on what was being said over ...5/6 years ,But in the end though better of it
I did keep in touch with ben and another member somewhat irregularly mostly when they was some sort of disaster in his neck of the wood just to make sure he was ok

I was eventually decided to rejoin On hearing Andrew (victor) had passed, he was my friend although we had lost touch And i am gutted by his loss

Nothings really changed for me.
i was disappointed that i never got to go to Africa to help with providing health care for people less fortunate
My RN engineering qualifications had lapsed and would have had to start from the beginning, as i had not transferd them to civilian qualification when i left the Navy, At my age it was something i decided that i was to old for

I became a grandad 4 years ago and now have a beautiful granddaughter she is so smart and i am really proud of her and my daughter

Suffice to say i will perhaps maybe expand on this in future posts...who knows

Yes i am still a "lefty" and wear that with pride and a believer in science and actual facts that are demonstrable with peer reviewed opinions and conclusions from actual experts
I dont do fake news and conspiracy theory's and have little time for thous that do

If i get something wrong in my posts ALL i ask is you prove it with actual hard evidence not your personal opinion I DON'T MIND BEING WRONG, i just ask you prove it with evidence from a reputable source not some crazy nut on the internet


I believe While everybody is entitled to an opinion the problem is “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.

I am still dislexic so any spelling errors are provided for your own amusement and to give the spelling police something to do My spell checker works overtime but still makes mistakes that i cant see

i am still sarcastic very sarcastic but only use abuse when i receive it first

so that's about all i can say for now ,am i glad to be back....well that remains to be seen it certainly lowered my BP being away
So i wish you ALL a belated happy new year and hope you are all staying safe

Regard

Korban





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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:01 am

Welcome back, Korban. Nice to see an old face in times like this. I hope you bring back the old Bruce Willis avatar as well Smile
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Post by eddie Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:02 am

Nice to see you back. Hope to see you here more frequently.
If I’d had your email address I’d have contacted you about Vic.

Congrats on being a granddad! Lovely news - Vic did tell us all here on site news somewhere.
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Post by Original Quill Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:04 am

Hi Korban. Pleasure to see you again. Congrats on the grand daughter. Loads of fun, with little of the responsibility.

Are you planning regular visits? We would welcome it.

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:06 am

eddie wrote:Nice to see you back. Hope to see you here more frequently.
If I’d had your email address I’d have contacted you about Vic.

Congrats on being a granddad! Lovely news - Vic did tell us all here on site news somewhere.

Thanks Eddie
i found out about Vic from the post made on here
it was very sad news

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:14 am

Original Quill wrote:Hi Korban.  Pleasure to see you again.  Congrats on the grand daughter.  Loads of fun, with little of the responsibility.

Are you planning regular visits?  We would welcome it.
Thanks Quill
Not sure how regular i will post likely to be a slow start,very busy with watching your country fall apart (watching the senate trial as i write) as i have been doing for the past 4 (seems like a thousand) years
hopefully you guys are back on track to being the respected Democracy that you where
but it looks like its going to be a uphill struggle, but i have every confidence that you will emerge stronger than you where

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Post by eddie Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:17 am

Korban wrote:
eddie wrote:Nice to see you back. Hope to see you here more frequently.
If I’d had your email address I’d have contacted you about Vic.

Congrats on being a granddad! Lovely news - Vic did tell us all here on site news somewhere.

Thanks Eddie
i found out about Vic from the post made on here
it was very sad news

Yes, I’m really quite gutted.
There’s a thread on here in Secure News where you can find a link to donate to Vic’s chosen charity, if you should choose to.
He really liked you. I hope you know that.
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Post by Original Quill Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:23 am

Korban wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Hi Korban.  Pleasure to see you again.  Congrats on the grand daughter.  Loads of fun, with little of the responsibility.

Are you planning regular visits?  We would welcome it.
Thanks Quill
Not sure how regular i will post likely to be a slow start,very busy with watching your country fall apart (watching the senate trial as i write) as i have been doing for the past 4 (seems like a thousand) years
hopefully you guys are back on track to being the respected Democracy that you where
but it looks like its going to be a uphill struggle, but i have every confidence that you will emerge stronger than you where  

We've got a long way to go. As you see from the impeachment hearings, Republicans are enablers of the wrongdoing. If Democrats don't do something to lock out the wrongs, they will become ratifiers of the wrongdoing.

Just as Nixon spawned Trump, the next one will borrow the same methods...unless something is done to outlaw them.

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:28 am

eddie wrote:
Korban wrote:

Thanks Eddie
i found out about Vic from the post made on here
it was very sad news

Yes, I’m really quite gutted.
There’s a thread on here in Secure News where you can find a link to donate to Vic’s chosen charity, if you should choose to.
He really liked you. I hope you know that.
Thanks Eddie

Yes i know he liked me, i liked him very much as well ,we had many a debate on the phone and i considered him a good friend, a fair an intelligent and compassionate man, the world is a little darker for his passing

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Post by eddie Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:31 am

Korban wrote:
eddie wrote:
Korban wrote:

Thanks Eddie
i found out about Vic from the post made on here
it was very sad news

Yes, I’m really quite gutted.
There’s a thread on here in Secure News where you can find a link to donate to Vic’s chosen charity, if you should choose to.
He really liked you. I hope you know that.
Thanks Eddie

Yes i know he liked me, i liked him very much as well ,we had many a debate on the phone and i considered him a good friend, a fair an intelligent and compassionate man, the world is a little darker for his passing

Yes it is.
I’m glad that you came back, I think he’d have liked that.
There are some nice photos of him in the “memoriam” section.
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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:33 am

Original Quill wrote:
Korban wrote:
Thanks Quill
Not sure how regular i will post likely to be a slow start,very busy with watching your country fall apart (watching the senate trial as i write) as i have been doing for the past 4 (seems like a thousand) years
hopefully you guys are back on track to being the respected Democracy that you where
but it looks like its going to be a uphill struggle, but i have every confidence that you will emerge stronger than you where   

We've got a long way to go.  As you see from the impeachment hearings, Republicans are enablers of the wrongdoing.  If Democrats don't do something to lock out the wrongs, they will become ratifiers of the wrongdoing.

Just as Nixon spawned Trump, the next one will borrow the same methods...unless something is done to outlaw them.  

They are scared of alienating the Maga cult and the votes they bring .in many ways it may be a good thing because it will split the vote (if trump starts his own party as he has suggested) and will put democratics in power for years to come

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Post by Original Quill Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:38 am

I'm bettin' it's the end of the Republicans.

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:46 am

Original Quill wrote:I'm bettin' it's the end of the Republicans.
That certainly a possibility, they have become the party of hypocrites Not all of them mind you, but certainly the majority.
That became clear when the screwed over merrik garland and then forced Amy Coney Barrett on to the supreme court weeks before the election

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Post by Andy Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:24 am

Great to see you back, Korben. Did you get my text and email?
I don't post much here myself these days, far too busy, even during lockdown.
The great British political debates ha e virtually disappeared from here, age has taken its toll, more US posters and a paucity of lefties to start or win debates.
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Post by Didgee Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:43 am

Welcome back mate

Missed the bouts we had

Actually think we may find more common ground than before

Really nice to hear from you and to be back in the mix here

Sending you best wishes

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Andy wrote:Great to see you back, Korben. Did you get my text and email?
I don't post much here myself these days, far too busy, even during  lockdown.
The great British political debates ha e virtually disappeared  from here, age has taken its toll, more US posters and a paucity of lefties to start or win debates.
Hey buddy cheers cheers cheers. text and email?? No i didn't get anything ? i will Pm you my personal email and number later just in case they has been a mistake in writing it down somewhere

My guess is political debate will flourish for a while as We (Scotland )push for independence in a attempt to unshackle us from the train wreck that is brexit Laughing

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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:56 pm

Didgee wrote:Welcome back mate

Missed the bouts we had

Actually think we may find more common ground than before

Really nice to hear from you and to be back in the mix here

Sending you best wishes

Thanks Didge

Even though i have not been a "member" i did pop in from time to time to read whats been going on and have enjoyed your posts, As you back up your views with facts rather than hyperbole 99.9 % of the time

Thank you for your best wishes they are reciprocated

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Post by Syl Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:08 pm

Hi Korban, I think I joined here just before you left. I remember you well though, and the Bruce Willis avi. Laughing

I appreciated the help you gave via Ben when I was having trouble with my scroll bar a couple of months ago, thanks for that...and welcome back. x
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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:18 pm

Syl wrote:Hi Korban, I think I joined here just before you left. I remember you well though, and the Bruce Willis avi. Laughing

I appreciated the help you gave via Ben when I was having trouble with my scroll bar a couple of months ago, thanks for that...and welcome back. x
You are very welcome Syl. As a computer engineer for over 30 years ,i hate seeing people with computer problems And if i can help i always try to , i had contemplated rejoining at that time just so i could perhaps point you in the right direction to fix your issue, but decided just to let Ben relay my advice i am glad you found it useful, Please feel free to ask for my advice if you have problems in the future.......It's what i do

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Post by Syl Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:24 pm

Korban wrote:
Syl wrote:Hi Korban, I think I joined here just before you left. I remember you well though, and the Bruce Willis avi. Laughing

I appreciated the help you gave via Ben when I was having trouble with my scroll bar a couple of months ago, thanks for that...and welcome back. x
You are very welcome Syl. As a computer engineer for over 30 years ,i hate seeing people with computer problems And if i can help i always try to , i had contemplated rejoining at that time just so i could perhaps point you in the right direction to fix your issue, but decided just to let Ben relay my advice i am glad you found it useful, Please feel free to ask for my advice if you have problems in the future.......It's what i do  
I appreciate that Korban, thank you....hope you won't regret it, I am always having some online trauma or other. Razz
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Post by Guest Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:07 pm

Syl wrote:
Korban wrote:
You are very welcome Syl. As a computer engineer for over 30 years ,i hate seeing people with computer problems And if i can help i always try to , i had contemplated rejoining at that time just so i could perhaps point you in the right direction to fix your issue, but decided just to let Ben relay my advice i am glad you found it useful, Please feel free to ask for my advice if you have problems in the future.......It's what i do  
I appreciate that Korban, thank you....hope you won't regret it, I am always having some online trauma or other. Razz
Don't worry I wont regret it I am never happier when i am fault finding a computer As my friends would testify to, when they are working i have little interest in them nowadays  ,However when they are not working "i am like a pig in mud" and can spend hours and hours investigating and fault finding. however not all problems can be fixed "with a bit of advice" or remotely. Partly because a lot of the time its a bit technical or there is a disconnect between what a non technical user sees and what i would see and relaying that information things can be missed, some times the Hands on approach is the only way to discover whats going on, and while some times i can fix something with a bit of advice or remotely even on the other side of the planet that requires trust, something that has to be earned

For example the problem you had i would have fixed in 30 sec is i had remotely securely logged in to your computer with a program called Team viewer But as i say that needs trust and should never be done on a casual basis By just anybody you ask for help on the internet  .And even before i would do that i give people My personal details. real name .address and Home phone number(not a mobile) first and get them to call me so if they have any worries they can contact me personally and directly that makes me legally responsible for the protection of your personal data  
to be honest 9 times out of 10 a phone call rather than a remote log in is all that's required as its easier to ask questions and give a description of the problem verbally rather than trying to explain in a post and vice versa

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Post by Didgee Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:32 pm

Korban wrote:
Didgee wrote:Welcome back mate

Missed the bouts we had

Actually think we may find more common ground than before

Really nice to hear from you and to be back in the mix here

Sending you best wishes

Thanks Didge

Even though i have not been a "member" i did pop in from time to time to read whats been going on and have enjoyed your posts, As you back up your views with facts rather than hyperbole 99.9 % of the time

Thank you for your best wishes they are reciprocated  


Thanks mate, is really kind of you to say so and feel very humbled by your kind words

Seriously is good to have you back

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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:08 am

I wish a few other old members would come back. I'd love to chat with smelly, Independent Thoughts and IMO in particular Twisted Evil
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:50 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I wish a few other old members would come back. I'd love to chat with smelly, Independent Thoughts and IMO in particular Twisted Evil

Didn't IMO leave after you outed him as previously being someone else though?

I liked posting with him....he brought a new lease of life to the forum.
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Post by Andy Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:24 pm

If you mean fascism and racism, yes, IMO certainly brought that to the forum.
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:54 pm

Andy wrote:If you mean fascism and racism, yes, IMO certainly brought that  to the forum.

Unless you want to belong to a Stepford forum, posters who give alternative opinions are welcome imo.
I don't believe he made any illegal threads or statements, and he certainly got your back up.....Razz
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:59 pm

Just a thought, but maybe forums are dead because people who bring alternative views...those that are prepared to argue them rather than make hit and run posts,  get tired of the hissy fits of others.
I have seen people list the names of posters who have left because it's too far left, right, whatever......wimps.

Unless a poster is being bullied or continuously tag teamed (and that doesn't happen much on here)  surely the whole point of joining a forum is to debate and argue your point....not run off like a mardarse because someone holds a different viewpoint. Rolling Eyes
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Post by Eilzel Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:35 pm

Welcome back Korben!!

I too would like to see IMO come back. He’d been so active right up to the election, not sure what happened...

Smelly usually drops in post elections these days too, but not the last one. But weird Laughing
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Post by Fred Moletrousers Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:51 pm

Hi Korben and welcome back, though now myself being only an occasional contributor to debate I suppose it might be a bit presumptuous of me to join in.

I think we crossed swords a few times in the past (we have somewhat different views on the EU!) ) but I’m afraid that having entered the ranks of grumpy old octogenarians my epee in now back firmly in its rack.
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Post by Guest Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:53 pm

Hi Fred thanks for that
i hear you have been unwell,i hope you are feeling better and you are staying safe

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:55 pm

Eilzel wrote:Welcome back Korben!!

I too would like to see IMO come back. He’d been so active right up to the election, not sure what happened...

Smelly usually drops in post elections these days too, but not the last one. But weird Laughing
Thanks Eilzel

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Post by Fred Moletrousers Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:19 pm

Korban wrote:Hi Fred thanks for that
i hear you have been unwell,i hope you are feeling better and you are staying safe

Yes thanks, Korben, fully recovered now. I had a bit of a mega wobbly in the first lockdown - combination of extreme loneliness, my beloved dog having to be put to sleep and a pretty scary cancer investigation combined to unhinge me a bit - but now all’s good apart from the buggerances that we’re all having to put up with for the greater good.
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Post by Guest Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:42 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Korban wrote:Hi Fred thanks for that
i hear you have been unwell,i hope you are feeling better and you are staying safe

Yes thanks, Korben, fully recovered now. I had a bit of a mega wobbly in the first lockdown - combination of extreme loneliness, my beloved dog having to be put to sleep and a pretty scary cancer investigation combined to unhinge me a bit - but now all’s good apart from the buggerances that we’re all having to put up with for the greater good.
Well i understand that completely one of the reasons i left Was our beautiful Dog Bela was killed when she chased a deer across a road ,two weeks later my mum died i was absolutely destroyed and just had had enough of all the hate and bickering .fortunately the lock-down has little impact on me i was self isolating long before it started Shocked and my job means i am inside most of the time anyway.And now i am fast approaching 60 i am stating to get aches and pains where i never had them before Razz
but happy to hear you are doing better

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Post by Syl Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:37 am

I'm sorry you had such a hard time back then Korban.
Losing your pet in such a cruel way was horrible, losing a beloved mum is probably one of the worst things that can happen in life.
Time does heal in part though. x
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Post by Guest Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Syl wrote:I'm sorry you had such a hard time back then Korban.
Losing your pet in such a cruel way was horrible, losing a beloved  mum is probably one of the worst things that can happen in life.
Time does heal in part though. x
Thanks Syl .as you can imagine i was pretty angry back then prone to lashing out at every opportunity and with a very very low tolerance for idiots ,But Time is the wisest counselor of all, and while i do still have"rushes" of grief from time to time they are few and far between now xx

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Post by Syl Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:10 pm

Korben wrote:
Syl wrote:I'm sorry you had such a hard time back then Korban.
Losing your pet in such a cruel way was horrible, losing a beloved  mum is probably one of the worst things that can happen in life.
Time does heal in part though. x
Thanks Syl .as you can imagine i was pretty angry back then prone to lashing out at every opportunity and with a very very low tolerance for idiots ,But Time is the wisest counselor of all, and while i do still have"rushes" of grief from time to time they are few and far between now xx

I understand.
It's 11 years since my own mum died....I was feeling really down a few days ago and even though I didn't realise it at the time, it was because the anniversary of her death was approaching. Be it 1 or 20 years...sometimes sad memories return.

You know yourself better than anyone else does, if being online wasn't helping you did right to have a clean break.
It's good you felt the time was right to come back. x
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Post by gelico Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:08 pm

Korben wrote:Hi folks
I am back Suspect

I was never really away i kept popping in to read what was going on and they where many times i wanted to comment on what was being said over ...5/6 years ,But in the end though better of it
I did keep in touch with ben and another member somewhat irregularly mostly when they was some sort of disaster in his neck of the wood just to make sure he was ok

I was eventually decided  to rejoin On hearing Andrew (victor) had passed, he was my friend although we had lost touch And i am gutted by his loss

Nothings really changed for me.
i was disappointed that i never got to go to Africa to help with providing health care for people less fortunate
My RN engineering qualifications had lapsed and would have had to start from the beginning, as i had not transferd them to civilian qualification when i left the Navy, At my age it was something i decided that i was to old for

I became a grandad 4 years ago and now have a beautiful granddaughter she is so smart and i am really proud of her and my daughter

Suffice to say i will perhaps maybe expand on this in future posts...who knows

Yes i am still a "lefty" and wear that with pride and a believer in science and actual facts that are demonstrable with peer reviewed opinions and conclusions from actual experts
I dont do fake news and conspiracy theory's and have little time for thous that do

If i get something wrong in my posts  ALL i ask is you prove it with actual hard evidence not your personal opinion  I DON'T MIND BEING WRONG, i just ask you prove it with evidence from a reputable source not some crazy nut on the internet


I believe While everybody is entitled to an opinion the problem is “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.

I am still dislexic so any spelling errors are provided for your own amusement and to give the spelling police something to do My spell checker works overtime but still makes mistakes that i cant see

i am still sarcastic very sarcastic but only use abuse when i receive it first

so that's about all i can say for now ,am i glad to be back....well that remains to be seen it certainly lowered my BP being away
So i wish you ALL a belated happy new year and hope you are all staying safe

Regard

Korban





hi korben, great to see you again.

you helped me out many times on flaps when i was building a website (for no reason other to learn how to do it). you took my huge confusing problem and turned it into something quite simple, more than once.


the fact that you're 'left' and vic was 'right' and you were friends is a good example to us all.

sorry for the losses you've had and glad you're feeling more like your old self

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Post by gelico Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:17 pm

Syl wrote:Just a thought, but maybe forums are dead because people who bring alternative views...those that are prepared to argue them rather than make hit and run posts,  get tired of the hissy fits of others.
I have seen people list the names of posters who have left because it's too far left, right, whatever......wimps.

Unless a poster is being bullied or continuously tag teamed (and that doesn't happen much on here)  surely the whole point of joining a forum is to debate and argue your point....not run off like a mardarse because someone holds a different viewpoint. Rolling Eyes


one poster who is good at standing their ground while being criticised from different angles is Tommy


I agree though, i think what is lacking is more diversity of thought and characters.

alternative views are great

attacking the alternative views (whatever they may be) with ridiculous name calling is not so great


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Post by Guest Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:49 pm

gelico wrote:
Korben wrote:Hi folks
I am back Suspect

I was never really away i kept popping in to read what was going on and they where many times i wanted to comment on what was being said over ...5/6 years ,But in the end though better of it
I did keep in touch with ben and another member somewhat irregularly mostly when they was some sort of disaster in his neck of the wood just to make sure he was ok

I was eventually decided  to rejoin On hearing Andrew (victor) had passed, he was my friend although we had lost touch And i am gutted by his loss

Nothings really changed for me.
i was disappointed that i never got to go to Africa to help with providing health care for people less fortunate
My RN engineering qualifications had lapsed and would have had to start from the beginning, as i had not transferd them to civilian qualification when i left the Navy, At my age it was something i decided that i was to old for

I became a grandad 4 years ago and now have a beautiful granddaughter she is so smart and i am really proud of her and my daughter

Suffice to say i will perhaps maybe expand on this in future posts...who knows

Yes i am still a "lefty" and wear that with pride and a believer in science and actual facts that are demonstrable with peer reviewed opinions and conclusions from actual experts
I dont do fake news and conspiracy theory's and have little time for thous that do

If i get something wrong in my posts  ALL i ask is you prove it with actual hard evidence not your personal opinion  I DON'T MIND BEING WRONG, i just ask you prove it with evidence from a reputable source not some crazy nut on the internet


I believe While everybody is entitled to an opinion the problem is “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.

I am still dislexic so any spelling errors are provided for your own amusement and to give the spelling police something to do My spell checker works overtime but still makes mistakes that i cant see

i am still sarcastic very sarcastic but only use abuse when i receive it first

so that's about all i can say for now ,am i glad to be back....well that remains to be seen it certainly lowered my BP being away
So i wish you ALL a belated happy new year and hope you are all staying safe

Regard

Korban





hi korben, great to see you again.

you helped me out many times on flaps when i was building a website (for no reason other to learn how to do it).  you took my huge confusing problem and turned it into something quite simple, more than once.


the fact that you're 'left' and vic was 'right' and you were friends is a good example to us all.

sorry for the losses you've had and glad you're feeling more like your old self
Hi gelico ...Thank you .i think you may have me confused with somebody else, i was only a member of that site for about a hour i think when he first started it and have never and would never go back.

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Post by Syl Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:01 pm

gelico wrote:
Syl wrote:Just a thought, but maybe forums are dead because people who bring alternative views...those that are prepared to argue them rather than make hit and run posts,  get tired of the hissy fits of others.
I have seen people list the names of posters who have left because it's too far left, right, whatever......wimps.

Unless a poster is being bullied or continuously tag teamed (and that doesn't happen much on here)  surely the whole point of joining a forum is to debate and argue your point....not run off like a mardarse because someone holds a different viewpoint. Rolling Eyes


one poster who is good at standing their ground while being criticised from different angles is Tommy


I agree though, i think what is lacking is more diversity of thought and characters.

alternative views are great

attacking the alternative views (whatever they may be) with ridiculous name calling is not so great


You are dead right about Tommy. He stands his ground brilliantly.
IMO was the same , who cares if their views sometimes don't fit in with the majority, at least they have the guts and grace to voice them and stick to them.
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Post by Guest Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:15 pm

I read this many years ago (and used part of in in my opening statement)  it taught me to distinguish opinion from facts and expert opinions vs armchair experts

what’s an opinion?

Plato distinguished between opinion or common belief (doxa) and certain knowledge, and that’s still a workable distinction today: unlike “1+1=2” or “there are no square circles,” an opinion has a degree of subjectivity and uncertainty to it. But “opinion” ranges from tastes or preferences, through views about questions that concern most people such as prudence or politics, to views grounded in technical expertise, such as legal or scientific opinions.

You can’t really argue about the first kind of opinion. I’d be silly to insist that you’re wrong to think strawberry ice cream is better than chocolate. The problem is that sometimes we implicitly seem to take opinions of the second and even the third sort to be unarguable in the way questions of taste are. Perhaps that’s one reason (no doubt there are others) why enthusiastic amateurs think they’re entitled to disagree with climate scientists and immunologists and have their views “respected.”

Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network, which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no medical qualifications, but argues that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines. But no-one assumes Dr. Brown is an authority on the physics of nuclear fission; his job is to comment on the policy responses to the science, not the science itself.

So what does it mean to be “entitled” to an opinion?

If “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven.

But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’ then it’s pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

On Monday, the ABC’s Mediawatch program took WIN-TV Wollongong to task for running a story on a measles outbreak which included comment from – you guessed it – Meryl Dorey. In a response to a viewer complaint, WIN said that the story was “accurate, fair and balanced and presented the views of the medical practitioners and of the choice groups.” But this implies an equal right to be heard on a matter in which only one of the two parties has the relevant expertise. Again, if this was about policy responses to science, this would be reasonable. But the so-called “debate” here is about the science itself, and the “choice groups” simply don’t have a claim on air time if that’s where the disagreement is supposed to lie.

Mediawatch host Jonathan Holmes was considerably more blunt: “there’s evidence, and there’s bulldust,” and it’s no part of a reporter’s job to give bulldust equal time with serious expertise.

The response from anti-vaccination voices was predictable. On the Mediawatch site, Ms. Dorey accused the ABC of “openly calling for censorship of a scientific debate.” This response confuses not having your views taken seriously with not being allowed to hold or express those views at all – or to borrow a phrase from Andrew Brown, it “confuses losing an argument with losing the right to argue.” Again, two senses of “entitlement” to an opinion are being conflated here.

So next time you hear someone declare they’re entitled to their opinion, ask them why they think that. Chances are, if nothing else, you’ll end up having a more enjoyable conversation that way.

h t t ps://w w w.iflscience.com/brain/no-youre-not-entitled-your-opinion/

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Post by Syl Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:28 pm

I think we can all agree that on forums many an opinion is indeed 'Bulldust'. Razz
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Post by gelico Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:29 pm

Korben wrote:
gelico wrote:

hi korben, great to see you again.

you helped me out many times on flaps when i was building a website (for no reason other to learn how to do it).  you took my huge confusing problem and turned it into something quite simple, more than once.


the fact that you're 'left' and vic was 'right' and you were friends is a good example to us all.

sorry for the losses you've had and glad you're feeling more like your old self
Hi gelico ...Thank you .i think you may have me confused with somebody else, i was only a member of that site for about a hour i think when he first started it and have never and would never go back.


oh right, may bad then, is this the only site you have posted on then? also did you ever have another id name?

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Post by Guest Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:58 pm

gelico wrote:
Korben wrote:
Hi gelico ...Thank you .i think you may have me confused with somebody else, i was only a member of that site for about a hour i think when he first started it and have never and would never go back.


oh right, may bad then, is this the only site you have posted on then?  also did you ever have another id name?
No i dont do this sneaking about with other names generally speaking because my writing style is so easy to spot (spelling mistakes and all ) although i was a member of a couple of sites since Sky but this site was the only main one after all the other previous ones before coming here died out

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Post by Andy Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:01 pm

Unfortunately,  the cycle of forums is reflected here.
Where it was once very right v left, with an abundance of British posters and  some from  the US and Oz,
most have withered on the vine, got old, died, fed up or got banned , never to return .
Wonder how Scrat, JD and Dean's alter egos are?
Sassy is all good.
Even Deano Floppykins rarely visits, probably because he INSISTED that Trump would win and was ready to gloat.
God, how I still chuckle  at Korbens hilariousy funny videos of the mustachioed, dancing Dean.
Funny as feck.
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Post by Guest Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:37 pm

Andy wrote:Unfortunately,  the cycle of forums is reflected here.
Where it was once very right v left, with an abundance of British posters and  some from  the US and Oz,
most have withered on the vine, got old, died, fed up or got banned , never to return .
Wonder how Scrat, JD and Dean's alter egos are?
Sassy is all good.
Even Deano Floppykins rarely visits, probably because he INSISTED that Trump would win and was ready to gloat.
God, how I still chuckle  at Korbens hilariousy funny videos of the mustachioed, dancing Dean.
Funny as feck.
Well i would rather not rehash that time or ferment anymore strife Andy , the videos where in response to his abusive pictures of the LW members and they served there purpose quite effectively Imo ,Ie dont bring a knife to a gun fight ,However water under the bridge as far as i am concerned And best left in the past

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Post by Andy Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:46 pm

I do miss JD and Scrat. I wonder how they are?
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