RW mobs take over Washington DC;

CNN wrote:Rioters still remain outside Capitol as DC curfew begins

A citywide curfew for the District of Columbia began at 6 p.m. ET and will continue until 6 a.m. ET tomorrow.

Mayor Muriel Bowser announced the curfew earlier today after Pro-Trump rioters stormed the US Capitol, where members of Congress were meeting to certify President-elect Joe Biden's win.

The Sergeant-at-Arms announced that the US Capitol building is now secure, according to press pool reporters. Rioters still remain outside the building.

And in Virginia, the neighboring state directly south of the Capital:

CNN wrote:Virginia governor announces state of emergency in response to rioting at US Capitol

Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam said he is issuing a state of emergency as well as setting a 6 p.m. ET curfew for the Arlington and Alexandria areas neighboring Washington, DC.

Meanwhile...

CNN wrote:Capitol Police detain about 20 people
From CNN’s Laura Robinson

Approximately 20 people were seen in plastic hand-ties being put in the back of a Capitol Police van after exiting the Russell Senate Office Building.

Those people were seen being put in the back of a Capitol Police van on Delaware Avenue near Constitution Avenue shortly after 5:30 p.m. this evening.

Trump's attempted coup has apparently failed.

Trump has been banned from Twitter.

The Attorney General of the District of Columbia has called on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment, calling for immediate removal of President Trump.

Original Quill wrote:The Attorney General of the District of Columbia has called on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment, calling for immediate removal of President Trump.

It might actually happen. That was some show today. Apparently Pence unfollowed Trump before Twitter blocked him.

Get the popcorn ready.

Really is shocking to see. While I don't have any reverence for the US or its system, the fact is that the US is still the example of how democracy works in the eyes of most of the world. Seeing those thugs storming and parading in the Capitol is bizarre.

As for Trump, I doubt any action will be taken since he has very little time left anyway.

I absolute LOVE imagining him seething at his White House desk after being temporarily banned from twitter though

Eilzel wrote:Really is shocking to see. While I don't have any reverence for the US or its system, the fact is that the US is still the example of how democracy works in the eyes of most of the world. Seeing those thugs storming and parading in the Capitol is bizarre.

As for Trump, I doubt any action will be taken since he has very little time left anyway.

I absolute LOVE imagining him seething at his White House desk after being temporarily banned from twitter though

I've seen some reports that Trump's cabinet is meeting to invoke the 25th.

The Republican party is in a free fall and need to act now. They should have acted within about a week or so of the election. It appears even the dumb ones realize that Trump has destroyed their party and he needs to be jettisoned. I imagine that come 2022 there will be a lot of Republicans getting primaried as there should be. Let's see if Republican voters are smart enough to dump everyone tied to Trump and rebuild the party.

I'm not holding my breath.

One day after, the media is blaming the Capital Police, suggesting the same Profa, RW terrorists are found within the ranks of the department as among the terrorists storming the Capital building.

Contrast the Capital Police presence when the BLM demonstration occurred...the planning, preparation and show of force.  Here, they had open. advanced pronouncements that something was going to happen on January 6th, and they just bowed and let the terrorist's pass.  It does appear that there is some sedition in the ranks.

Meanwhile, we learn that Trump stood in the way and refused to allow the National Guard to be called out, a measure that assured the success of the Profa terrorists.  We have been coddling these white supremacists and antigovernment types throughout history...as if the pro-slavery sentiment, from whence they come, is perfectly acceptable.

I hate to say I told you so, but for years now I've been warning y'all: the US is a flawed nation from its founding.  North and south don't belong together.  It’s the Constitution Crack’d.

Maddog wrote:The Republican party is in a free fall and need to act now.

I believe the Republican Party is irretrievably broken already. Those that are not Russian agents (being bought by through the NRA), are now pro-slavery, Profa and antigovernment types. They represent causes that, under today's universal standards, are shameful, bordering on disgusting.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:The Republican party is in a free fall and need to act now.

I believe the Republican Party is irretrievably broken already.  Those that are not Russian agents (being bought by through the NRA), are now pro-slavery, Profa and antigovernment types.  They represent causes that, under today's universal standards, are shameful, bordering on disgusting.

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.

Remember Jimmy Carter.

As an Americaphile (is there such a word?) of many years' standing I was appalled - and bloody scared - to see this.

I have never had time for Trump, but that his presidency should be coming to a close in such a brutal, violent manner - apparently without the slightest indication of sanction or regret from the man - utterly disgusts me.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I believe the Republican Party is irretrievably broken already. Those that are not Russian agents (being bought by through the NRA), are now pro-slavery, Profa and antigovernment types. They represent causes that, under today's universal standards, are shameful, bordering on disgusting.

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.

Without granting your premise, I don't think it will be a third party. It will be a replacement party—still a second party—much as the Ripon Republicans fitted into the old Democrats vs. Federalists, just prior to the civil war.

America, the population, is begging for a drastic shift to the left. Repeat studies have shown that the public is far to the left of Washington, DC, on both sides. I predict that as the Republicans die a well-deserved death, what will emerge will be a two-party system in the shape of Democrats, picking up the remaining right, and Progressives replacing them on the left.

The Progressive Party is originally the righteous, revolutionary branch of the 19th-century Republican Party, that championed anti-slavery, yes, but also women's rights and the 19th-Amendment (voting for women). It was the party of Theodore Roosevelt. Unfortunately, it got snuffed out in the debate over entering (Europe's) WW I, and the subsequent Neutrality Acts.

I think events will surprise us, and there will not be a universal shift to the left. Republicans well die (they are already dead), and Progressives will re-emerge, jumping over the Democrats and becoming the re-emerged left (just as Republicans did to the rightest Federalist Party). There will still be a two-party system, just not quite the same game as before.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:As an Americaphile (is there such a word?) of many years' standing I was appalled - and bloody scared - to see this.

I have never had time for Trump, but that his presidency should be coming to a close in such a brutal, violent manner - apparently without the slightest indication of sanction or regret from the man - utterly disgusts me.

It disgusts me, too Fred.  I've always said, the only thing that Obama did wrong was to fail to prosecute Dick Cheney...the guilty Republican VP, whose co-conspirator was convicted, but he (Cheney) was named only.  Now, even the co-conspirator has been pardoned by Trump.

The one thing that disturbs me about Democrats is, they are snowflakes!  There is no responsibility assigned by Democrats, and they are all about holding hands and singing Kum-ba-Yah after battles like these.

I have long maintained that Democrats are the one's responsible for deterioration of law and order in government.  Republicans and Trump only seized the opportunity when they decided to turn unlawful.  There are certain truths about America, among them: (1) America is not a Democracy; that (2) American has never ended slavery; and (3) that certain people in America are truly above the law.

More on the Capital Police: some are discussing, on the cable talk shows, that the Capital Police need to be held to account.

Clearly the Capital Police were in on the crime.  It's all on film, as CCTV is all over the place.  Reports have come in that the Capital policemen were helping the insurrectionists around barriers, and showing them where to go, telling the coup leaders how they could find offices and various chambers.  They were filmed taking 'selfies' with the other insurrectionists, a stark contrast to the police beatings when black protesters are involved.

Which raises the question: what should be done about them?  Of course, they should be individually prosecuted.  But how did the entire department become infected?  The Metropolitan DC Police are an excellent unit, but are not used to guard federal buildings as they are a local force.

Some are discussing disbanding the Capital Police, and allowing Marines to stand guard, as they do on other federal buildings (Embassies, White House, eg).  Others say, allow the Metropolitan DC Police serve as guards…they are an excellent unit, as I’ve said.

Thought provoking.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.  

Without granting your premise, I don't think it will be a third party.  It will be a replacement party—still a second party—much as the Ripon Republicans fitted into the old Democrats vs. Federalists, just prior to the civil war.

America, the population, is begging for a drastic shift to the left.  Repeat studies have shown that the public is far to the left of Washington, DC, on both sides.  I predict that as the Republicans die a well-deserved death, what will emerge will be a two-party system in the shape of Democrats, picking up the remaining right, and Progressives replacing them on the left.

The Progressive Party is originally the righteous, revolutionary branch of the 19th-century Republican Party, that championed anti-slavery, yes, but also women's rights and the 19th-Amendment (voting for women).  It was the party of Theodore Roosevelt.  Unfortunately, it got snuffed out in the debate over entering (Europe's) WW I, and the subsequent Neutrality Acts.

I think events will surprise us, and there will not be a universal shift to the left.  Republicans well die (they are already dead), and Progressives will re-emerge, jumping over the Democrats and becoming the re-emerged left (just as Republicans did to the rightest Federalist Party).  There will still be a two-party system, just not quite the same game as before.

Is this after California leaves the US?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Without granting your premise, I don't think it will be a third party.  It will be a replacement party—still a second party—much as the Ripon Republicans fitted into the old Democrats vs. Federalists, just prior to the civil war.

America, the population, is begging for a drastic shift to the left.  Repeat studies have shown that the public is far to the left of Washington, DC, on both sides.  I predict that as the Republicans die a well-deserved death, what will emerge will be a two-party system in the shape of Democrats, picking up the remaining right, and Progressives replacing them on the left.

The Progressive Party is originally the righteous, revolutionary branch of the 19th-century Republican Party, that championed anti-slavery, yes, but also women's rights and the 19th-Amendment (voting for women).  It was the party of Theodore Roosevelt.  Unfortunately, it got snuffed out in the debate over entering (Europe's) WW I, and the subsequent Neutrality Acts.

I think events will surprise us, and there will not be a universal shift to the left.  Republicans well die (they are already dead), and Progressives will re-emerge, jumping over the Democrats and becoming the re-emerged left (just as Republicans did to the rightest Federalist Party).  There will still be a two-party system, just not quite the same game as before.

Is this after California leaves the US?

That's a separate issue.  I would like, most of all, for California and the west coast to go it alone.  But, at a minimum, we need to excise the south so that the rest of us can be moral and washed in Amexit.

More certain, is that the Republicans are through.  I believe the Progressives will rise to fill the vacancy.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Is this after California leaves the US?

That's a separate issue.  I would like, most of all, for California and the west coast to go it alone.  But, at a minimum, we need to excise the south so that the rest of us can be moral and washed in Amexit.

More certain, is that the Republicans are through.  I believe the Progressives will rise to fill the vacancy.

Well, if you believe it, I know where to put my money.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:The Republican party is in a free fall and need to act now.

I believe the Republican Party is irretrievably broken already.  Those that are not Russian agents (being bought by through the NRA), are now pro-slavery, Profa and antigovernment types.  They represent causes that, under today's universal standards, are shameful, bordering on disgusting.

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.  

Remember Jimmy Carter.

Trump makes Carter look like Washington! I don't think people will forget the lessons of the past four years quickly.

It was hard to believe those scenes we saw were coming from a so called civilised democratic country like America.

It was quite unnerving to see.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.  

Remember Jimmy Carter.

Trump makes Carter look like Washington! I don't think people will forget the lessons of the past four years quickly.

Trump is more like Nixon. Reagan beat Carter by a landslide because Republicans turned their back on Nixon when it was obvious how bad he was and because the Carter years were a disaster.

I wasn't comparing Trump to Carter. They are polar opposite in about every facet.

Syl wrote:It was hard to believe those scenes we saw were coming from a so called civilised democratic country  like America.

It was quite unnerving to see.

Were not really civilized, and what is democracy but polite mob rule?

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:It was hard to believe those scenes we saw were coming from a so called civilised democratic country  like America.

It was quite unnerving to see.

Were not really civilized, and what is democracy but polite mob rule?  

'Polite'??
The only thing I have seen that could ever compare to that violent unruly mob was when Billy Hot Rocks performed at the local WI back in the 80's.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Trump makes Carter look like Washington! I don't think people will forget the lessons of the past four years quickly.

Trump is more like Nixon. Reagan beat Carter by a landslide because Republicans turned their back on Nixon when it was obvious how bad he was and because the Carter years were a disaster.

I wasn't comparing Trump to Carter. They are polar opposite in about every facet.

Everyone has their comparisons, and their personal basis for comparisons. They are usually based upon life experiences, father/mother likenesses, traumatic experiences and the like.

Personally, I compare James Carter to G.H.W. Bush, both one-termers, because—regardless of accomplishments—they both had milquetoast tones-of-voice. They both spoke through the upper reaches of their facial masque, and it came out in high tones. When they delivered monumental speeches, on monumental topics, it sounded like a baby talking. The two couldn't be farther apart on political philosophy and personality. But my comparison is based, not upon what they accomplished, but on delivery and the persona they projected to the public.

But it's totally idiosyncratic. We like to think we are rational, and everything is based on policy and programs, but the masses see through the bullshit. It’s a fiction. People make decisions against a background of their own experiences.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Were not really civilized, and what is democracy but polite mob rule?  

'Polite'??
The only thing I have seen that could ever compare to that violent unruly mob was when Billy Hot Rocks performed at the local WI back in the 80's.

I didn't say they were polite. I said democracy is polite mob rule. That's why we don't have a democracy but a constitutional republic.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Trump is more like Nixon.  Reagan beat Carter by a landslide because Republicans turned their back on Nixon when it was obvious how bad he was and because the Carter years were a disaster.  

I wasn't comparing Trump to Carter. They are polar opposite in about every facet.  

Everyone has their comparisons, and their personal basis for comparisons.  They are usually based upon life experiences, father/mother likenesses, traumatic experiences and the like.

Personally, I compare James Carter to G.H.W. Bush, both one-termers, because—regardless of accomplishments—they both had milquetoast tones-of-voice.  They both spoke through the upper reaches of their facial masque, and it came out in high tones.  When they delivered monumental speeches, on monumental topics, it sounded like a baby talking.  The two couldn't be farther apart on political philosophy and personality.  But my comparison is based, not upon what they accomplished, but on delivery and the persona they projected to the public.

But it's totally idiosyncratic.  We like to think we are rational, and everything is based on policy and programs, but the masses see through the bullshit.  It’s a fiction.  People make decisions against a background of their own experiences.

Thats weird as fuck. Even for you.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You probably said that after Nixon.

Since Americans have no taste for a 3rd party, we will just have to wait for the Democrats to fuck up enough to make the Republicans look good again.  

Remember Jimmy Carter.

Trump makes Carter look like Washington! I don't think people will forget the lessons of the past four years quickly.

Trump is more like Nixon.  Reagan beat Carter by a landslide because Republicans turned their back on Nixon when it was obvious how bad he was and because the Carter years were a disaster.  

I wasn't comparing Trump to Carter. They are polar opposite in about every facet.  

Trump makes Nixon look like Lincoln!

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Everyone has their comparisons, and their personal basis for comparisons.  They are usually based upon life experiences, father/mother likenesses, traumatic experiences and the like.

Personally, I compare James Carter to G.H.W. Bush, both one-termers, because—regardless of accomplishments—they both had milquetoast tones-of-voice.  They both spoke through the upper reaches of their facial masque, and it came out in high tones.  When they delivered monumental speeches, on monumental topics, it sounded like a baby talking.  The two couldn't be farther apart on political philosophy and personality.  But my comparison is based, not upon what they accomplished, but on delivery and the persona they projected to the public.

But it's totally idiosyncratic.  We like to think we are rational, and everything is based on policy and programs, but the masses see through the bullshit.  It’s a fiction.  People make decisions against a background of their own experiences.

Thats weird as fuck. Even for you.  

Yeah...I like to think so.  The less common, the better. After all, we are all individuals...

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Trump is more like Nixon.  Reagan beat Carter by a landslide because Republicans turned their back on Nixon when it was obvious how bad he was and because the Carter years were a disaster.  

I wasn't comparing Trump to Carter. They are polar opposite in about every facet.  

Trump makes Nixon look like Lincoln!

You know, Nixon was paranoid and didn't mind breaking the law to spy on other people, but I wonder if he would have even left office in 2020?

We are so partisan now that I just don't know. He could have said fuck it, you will never get 67 senators to vote to remove me, so I'm staying.

The reason why we are so partisan today is that the Republican Party is slowly slipping into permanent, minority status, and they are panicked.

One of the reasons this is so, is that non-white peoples are growing at a much faster rate.  Hispanics on the border from Texas to the Pacific Ocean, and up into Nevada, Colorado, Oklahoma and Kansas, are likely to overwhelm state and local voting populations, and the Republicans know it.  Non-white people are decidedly liberal and vote Democratic.

That is the reason that Trump's starting campaign speech in 2015 was that Mexicans are rapists, drug dealers and criminals, and they are taking over.  That got the party apparatus started on a racist binge.  But Trump also tapped into the deep and dangerous racial rift in this country (Charlottesville: white supremacists are “good people”), and triggered this 2nd civil war.

The Republican Party is a dying political force, and they know it.

Original Quill wrote:The reason why we are so partisan today is that the Republican Party is slowly slipping into permanent, minority status, and they are panicked.

One of the reasons this is so, is that non-white peoples are growing at a much faster rate.  Hispanics on the border from Texas to the Pacific Ocean, and up into Nevada, Colorado, Oklahoma and Kansas, are likely to overwhelm state and local voting populations, and the Republicans know it.  Non-white people are decidedly liberal and vote Democratic.

That is the reason that Trump's starting campaign speech in 2015 was that Mexicans are rapists, drug dealers and criminals, and they are taking over.  That got the party apparatus started on a racist binge.  But Trump also tapped into the deep and dangerous racial rift in this country (Charlottesville: white supremacists are “good people”), and triggered this 2nd civil war.

The Republican Party is a dying political force, and they know it.

The Republican party picked up votes in the House and controls many statehouses.

It's doing fine.

At least until the past few weeks.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:The reason why we are so partisan today is that the Republican Party is slowly slipping into permanent, minority status, and they are panicked.

One of the reasons this is so, is that non-white peoples are growing at a much faster rate.  Hispanics on the border from Texas to the Pacific Ocean, and up into Nevada, Colorado, Oklahoma and Kansas, are likely to overwhelm state and local voting populations, and the Republicans know it.  Non-white people are decidedly liberal and vote Democratic.

That is the reason that Trump's starting campaign speech in 2015 was that Mexicans are rapists, drug dealers and criminals, and they are taking over.  That got the party apparatus started on a racist binge.  But Trump also tapped into the deep and dangerous racial rift in this country (Charlottesville: white supremacists are “good people”), and triggered this 2nd civil war.

The Republican Party is a dying political force, and they know it.

The Republican party picked up votes in the House and controls many statehouses.

It's doing fine.

At least until the past few weeks.  

The past two weeks?

The Republican candidate has won the majority of the popular vote in a presidential election exactly once (2004) since 1984. That's the entirety of Les's time on this planet!

Under Republican-led administrations, the U.S. economy hasn't performed as well as it has under Democratic administrations since the 1950s.

For the past 30 years, the GOP has relied heavily on vote-suppression tactics and gerrymandering to hold onto any power whatsoever.

And most importantly, every survey of the values of the majority of Americans for the past several decades has shown an electorate far more aligned with the Democratic Party -- in some issues, to the left of the Democrats.

The Republican Party is on life support.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The Republican party picked up votes in the House and controls many statehouses.

It's doing fine.

At least until the past few weeks.  

The past two weeks?

The Republican candidate has won the majority of the popular vote in a presidential election exactly once (2004) since 1984. That's the entirety of Les's time on this planet!

Under Republican-led administrations, the U.S. economy hasn't performed as well as it has under Democratic administrations since the 1950s.

For the past 30 years, the GOP has relied heavily on vote-suppression tactics and gerrymandering to hold onto any power whatsoever.

And most importantly, every survey of the values of the majority of Americans for the past several decades has shown an electorate far more aligned with the Democratic Party -- in some issues, to the left of the Democrats.

The Republican Party is on life support.

The party is more than the president. It's the entire body of elected officials throughout the country.

https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_composition_of_state_legislatures



Across the country, Republicans hold more state senate and house seats.

An entire body of elected officials throughout the country who couldn't, nearly to a person, offer even mild condemnation of anything Trump did and still only reluctantly criticise him for inciting a coup with less than two weeks left in his term.

Ben Reilly wrote:An entire body of elected officials throughout the country who couldn't, nearly to a person, offer even mild condemnation of anything Trump did and still only reluctantly criticise him for inciting a coup with less than two weeks left in his term.

I'm not judging them, just counting them.