Judgement day...

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:the Jews had to make the claim that Jesus said he was the king of the Jews otherwise he was guilty of nothing under Roman law..

Did jesus claim to be the Messiah?

take your time

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Did jesus claim to be the Messiah?

take your time

no he claimed to be God...

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

no he claimed to be God...

Did he?

He claimed to be the son of man and the Messiah

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Did he?

He claimed to be the son of man and the Messiah

he claimed to be God, why do you think the Jews had him killed..

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Did he?

He claimed to be the son of man and the Messiah

he claimed to be God, why do you think the Jews had him killed..

Joy Division wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

he claimed to be God, why do you think the Jews had him killed..

I think I heard this bit in school...and that is indeed why he was killed, of course I obviously don't know for sure, but this was school teachings when I were a nipper I'm sure of it.

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I think I heard this bit in school...and that is indeed why he was killed, of course I obviously don't know for sure, but this was school teachings when I were a nipper I'm sure of it.

Blimey if this is what you were taught in School Joy???

The Romans executed Jesus and the Jews always get it in the neck for this, which makes little sense being as they could carry out executions themselves for breaking religious laws on fellow Jews

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Blimey if this is what you were taught in School Joy???

The Romans executed Jesus and the Jews always get it in the neck for this, which makes little sense being as they could carry out executions themselves for breaking religious laws on fellow Jews

did the jews kill others for claiming to be the messiah, did they stone them to death??

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

did the jews kill others for claiming to be the messiah, did they stone them to death??

They certainly stoned to death people for blasphemy and religious laws, for example what was Mary Magdalene about to be stoned to death for?

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


They certainly stoned to death people for blasphemy and religious laws, for example what was Mary Magdalene about to be stoned to death for?

So Jesus could have been stoned to death for being a failed messiah??

why then did they bring him to the Romans, did they become stoning shy??

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

So Jesus could have been stoned to death for being a failed messiah??

why then did they bring him to the Romans, did they become stoning shy??

At last the point is starting to sink in, yes why would they indeed, or did that part of the story become invented to shy blame away from the Romans?

Glad to see it is finally starting to sink in

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


At last the point is starting to sink in, yes why would they indeed, or did that part of the story become invented to shy blame away from the Romans?

Glad to see it is finally starting to sink in

Lol i wish it would sink in for you, if Jesus was a failed messiah as you call him, they would have stoned him to death, he claimed much higher, something that enraged and frightened the Jews, so they sought the Romans as to keep the blood from their own hands... see it's quite easy really..

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I think I heard this bit in school...and that is indeed why he was killed, of course I obviously don't know for sure, but this was school teachings when I were a nipper I'm sure of it.

Blimey if this is what you were taught in School Joy???

The Romans executed Jesus and the Jews always get it in the neck for this, which makes little sense being as they could carry out executions themselves for breaking religious laws on fellow Jews

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

Lol i wish it would sink in for you, if Jesus was a failed messiah as you call him, they would have stoned him to death, he claimed much higher, something that enraged and frightened the Jews, so they sought the Romans as to keep the blood from their own hands... see it's quite easy really..

Dear me to many people he would be a failed messiah if he did not free the jewish people and the Romans killed him, ha ha ha

You you really are a dummy

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Dear me to many people he would be a failed messiah if he did not free the jewish people and the Romans killed him, ha ha ha

You you really are a dummy

but why did they not simply stone him to death as a failed messiah, i see you have gone back in to circular mode..lol

or as the other thread are you claiming the jews nailed Jesus to the cross...??

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

but why did they not simply stone him to death as a failed messiah, i see you have gone back in to circular mode..lol

or as the other thread are you claiming the jews nailed Jesus to the cross...??

You still are not grasping this, if they were involved they would have stoned him to death, thus the claim they tried him is clearly used to exonerate the Romans, thus invented, can you see that>

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


You still are not grasping this, if they were involved they would have stoned him to death, thus the claim they tried him is clearly used to exonerate the Romans, thus invented, can you see that>

so the jews were not involved or they would have stoned him to death, the romans weren't involved because they never crucified Jesus, was it JR or aliens who did crucify him??

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

so the jews were not involved or they would have stoned him to death, the romans weren't involved because they never crucified Jesus, was it JR or aliens who did crucify him??

The Romans were involved with many people claiming to be kings over Caesar

You have heard of sedition have you not?

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


The Romans were involved with many people claiming to be kings over Caesar

You have heard of sedition have you not?

so the Romans were involved, that's a turn around for you, again if Jesus was just another failed messiah, why didn't they just stone him as they did others.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

so the Romans were involved, that's a turn around for you, again if Jesus was just another failed messiah, why didn't they just stone him as they did others.

He was a failed Messiah to the jews, that concept has no meaning to the Romans, ha ha ha ha ha

Man you are really slow

I have always stated the Romans executed him, because he claimed to be a king


It is getting boring now

 :D 

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


He was a failed Messiah to the jews, that concept has no meaning to the Romans, ha ha ha ha ha

Man you are really slow

I have always stated the Romans executed him, because he claimed to be a king


It is getting boring now

 :D 

so if he was a failed messiah as you say the jews could have stoned him to death, they did not need to involve the Romans...
Correct

are you sure this time that the Romans crucified Jesus or will it change again..lol
Show where i said otherwise

so Jesus must have been more than just a failed messiah..

Joy Division wrote:I asked this question again the other day, as yet nobody can give an answer, so it's more for Veya, as she also seems to be clued up on religion.....


Who was on earth first?...God or Allah?

Although I'm not religious, I'm genuinely interested I an answer to that  :D 

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I asked this question again the other day, as yet nobody can give an answer, so it's more for Veya, as she also seems to be clued up on religion.....


Who was on earth first?...God or Allah?

Although I'm not religious, I'm genuinely interested I an answer to that  :D 

Eh?

If they are the same deity reading the religious works, what do you think then Joy?
The biblical deity changes his name in the bible also

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I asked this question again the other day, as yet nobody can give an answer, so it's more for Veya, as she also seems to be clued up on religion.....


Who was on earth first?...God or Allah?

Although I'm not religious, I'm genuinely interested I an answer to that  :D 

Eh?

If they are the same deity reading the religious works, what do you think then Joy?
The biblical deity changes his name in the bible also

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Eh?

If they are the same deity reading the religious works, what do you think then Joy?
The biblical deity changes his name in the bible also

I dunno anything about religion Didge, so who was on earth first then?  

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I dunno anything about religion Didge, so who was on earth first then?  

Neither of them

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Neither of them

But were neither ever real people on earth at one time Didge?, how can Jesus be the son of God of God never existed?


Yes I know about the Virgin Mary, I try to be open minded , but not that open minded    

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Eh?

If they are the same deity reading the religious works, what do you think then Joy?
The biblical deity changes his name in the bible also

Surely your not saying God and Allah were the same person Didge??????

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


But were neither ever real people on earth at one time Didge?, how can Jesus be the son of God of God never existed?


Yes I know about the Virgin Mary, I try to be open minded , but not that open minded    

Joy Jesus was a man, nothing more, a very good teacher, nothing else, where is the proof he is God or the son of God?

There is nothing except claims made by people that he died and rose from the dead.



Didge, I always wanted to know an answer to this, and it seems even out hardcore religious posters on here can not answer that...

Which kind of pits a dampener on all the other claims made, one had to have been here or believed in before the other Didge...
That is faith not proof so why ask who was here first, clearly not humans either

heavenly father wrote:

Joy Division wrote:






Surely your not saying God and Allah were the same person Didge??????

I wouldn't ask didge if I was you Jd, he probably thinks the gruffellow came first..lol

Jd the differences in the bible and Koran make it quite obvious they cannot be from the same God..

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


But were neither ever real people on earth at one time Didge?, how can Jesus be the son of God of God never existed?


Yes I know about the Virgin Mary, I try to be open minded , but not that open minded    

Joy Jesus was a man, nothing more, a very good teacher, nothing else, where is the proof he is God or the son of God?

There is nothing except claims made by people that he died and rose from the dead.

That is faith not proof so why ask who was here first, clearly not humans either

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Jesus was a man, nothing more, a very good teacher, nothing else, where is the proof he is God or the son of God?

There is nothing except claims made by people that he died and rose from the dead.

That is faith not proof so why ask who was here first, clearly not humans either

if we could only work out if the Romans, jews, Jr or aliens killed Jesus, that might help..

Joy Division wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

if we could only work out if the Romans, jews, Jr or aliens killed Jesus, that might help..

From what I think ...SOME Romans wanted to kill Jesus, but I THINK it was the Jews who done so.

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Jesus was a man, nothing more, a very good teacher, nothing else, where is the proof he is God or the son of God?

There is nothing except claims made by people that he died and rose from the dead.

That is faith not proof so why ask who was here first, clearly not humans either

if we could only work out if the Romans, jews, Jr or aliens killed Jesus, that might help..

heavenly father wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



From what I think ...SOME Romans wanted to kill Jesus, but I THINK it was the Jews who done so.

the Romans crucified Jesus, it wasn't made up, the Jews forced pilate in to a position that made him do it, he even tried to wash his hands of the situation, he then tried to have him released but the jews wanted Jesus killed..

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

if we could only work out if the Romans, jews, Jr or aliens killed Jesus, that might help..

Well you claim the Jews killed him ha ha

It was the Romans and this is corroborated also by sources outside the bible chap

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Well you claim the Jews killed him ha ha

It was the Romans and this is corroborated also by sources outside the bible chap

i thought that was all made up...chap..lol

the jews had to make trumped up charges for the Romans to crucify Jesus as being a a failed messiah was of no interest to the Romans.

PhilDidge wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

i thought that was all made up...chap..lol

the jews had to make trumped up charges for the Romans to crucify Jesus as being a a failed messiah was of no interest to the Romans.

Really are you being dense again ha ha


The jews played no part, Jesus was arrested for sedition by the Romans and executed, the writers which all stem from mark claim the Jews arrested him, that part is a fabrication, because they as seen could have executed Jesus himself, thus blame is cast on them by the writer to warm to a Roman audience.

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Really are you being dense again ha ha


The jews played no part, Jesus was arrested for sedition by the Romans and executed, the writers which all stem from mark claim the Jews arrested him, that part is a fabrication, because they as seen could have executed Jesus himself, thus blame is cast on them by the writer to warm to a Roman audience.

ah now the jewish part in it is a fabrication, thats different again, so the fact it was claimed that Jesus was arrested in the garden of gethsemane, taken to the high priest, then handed to the Romans is all fabricated.

stardesk wrote:In answer to JD, re who came first. As the Koran is younger than the Old Testament, and Islam is an offshoot of Christianity, then obvioulsy Jehovah was first, being named as Allah by Moslems later.

Whilst I'm on line, I believe Maine and HF are really Dibley and hhusband, God is good all the time, or GIGATT as I called him. They belong to one of those nutty American sects called the 'Joseph Prince Ministries,' a con-man if ever I saw one, for he asks for donations on his web site, and claims to travel the world teaching the faith. Debating with them is a complete waste of time and effort.

If you've got a minute have a quick look for yourselves and you'll see what I mean:

http://josephprince.org/

stardesk wrote:Quoting you Maine: 'His teachings look spot on straight from the bible and Hebrew.'

And the Old Testament, which the Bible and ultimately Christianity are based on, is so flawed especially in the earlier accounts such as Genesis, as to be no more than fantasy stories. Some accounts just could never have happened as written down. When we compare reality to some of those stories we come realise just how much gobbledegook they are.

stardesk wrote:It's quite easy to explain really. The Roman's saw Jesus as an upstart, a renegade stirring the people up against Roman rule. What alternative was there other than killing him?

In answer to JD, re who came first. As the Koran is younger than the Old Testament, and Islam is an offshoot of Christianity, then obvioulsy Jehovah was first, being named as Allah by Moslems later. Christianity would have been well known by Mohammed's time, in the 700s AD, right across the known world, including Europe and Britain. Consider St. Patrick, he was preaching in Britain and Ireland in the 400s AD.

Whilst I'm on line, I believe Maine and HF are really Dibley and hhusband, God is good all the time, or GIGATT as I called him. They belong to one of those nutty American sects called the 'Joseph Prince Ministries,' a con-man if ever I saw one, for he asks for donations on his web site, and claims to travel the world teaching the faith. Debating with them is a complete waste of time and effort.

If you've got a minute have a quick look for yourselves and you'll see what I mean:

http://josephprince.org/.

stardesk wrote:Indeed he was, JD. Islam, though claiming to stem from Abraham's  time, didn't organize itself as a bona-fide faith/religion until Mohammed's time. If you haven't got one, then try to borrow from your library a copy of the Koran. You'll be surprised at the amount of Old Testament stories in it.