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If god is all powerful why does he allow sin?

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Post by Guest Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Apparently homosexuality is a sin - if you put a certain spin on the bible texts.

Yet it is claimed god is all powerful.

If he is all powerful why did he create homosexuality?

If he is all powerful why does he refuse to help those who believe that interpretation of the bible when they beg him to help them change?

Surely the evidence is that if god does exist he is one sadistic bugger.

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:49 pm

Thats changing the argument, however...

i'd say no, they are based on similar roots however, and contain many similarities in some areas. I would suggest this is easily enough explained as the qur'an would have been heavily influenced by the already existing torah and bible. Also the way the qur'an treats the material contained in those similarities is different in style to the earlier books. the bible or at least the OT tends to be an "historical narrative" whereas the qur'an is more allusive. SO sharing some roots yes...the same NO

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:18 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I'm not going to pretend to have an answer to that - as you know from our discussions on Flappy - if HF is right about being able to choose which gender you're attracted to, then he should be able to choose to be gay also.

As we've discussed, I don't feel I have a choice being heterosexual. So unless HF can choose to be gay, has no right to ask you to choose to be straight.

My/our only other avenue to explore the hypothesis of choice is science. Which (according to the other thread) between 30-40% is something you are born with (on a genetic level).

That leaves what happens in the uterus, early childhood, perhaps all the way to teenage/puberty. These questions are still unanswered.

I'm afraid it is the as you say, lack of answers, on such questions (not just sexuality but a lot of things) that is one of the things that lead me to reject my own Protestant Christianity long ago- I am impressed so many continue to have faith when faced with unanswerable questions and contradictions within their own faith.

HF of course is just a wind up merchant  Smile 

i dare say being gay didn't help your protestant beliefs,,lol

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:22 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I'm afraid it is the as you say, lack of answers, on such questions (not just sexuality but a lot of things) that is one of the things that lead me to reject my own Protestant Christianity long ago- I am impressed so many continue to have faith when faced with unanswerable questions and contradictions within their own faith.

HF of course is just a wind up merchant  Smile 

i dare say being gay didn't help your protestant beliefs,,lol

And there you go, bringing it up again with no relevance whatsoever. The reasons I rejected Christianity are much the same as those of didge, stardesk, Ben, veya and other posters- do grow some originality.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

i dare say being gay didn't help your protestant beliefs,,lol

And there you go, bringing it up again with no relevance whatsoever. The reasons I rejected Christianity are much the same as those of didge, stardesk, Ben, veya and other posters- do grow some originality.

you think your being gay does not influence you against God, get real... :D 

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:31 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

And there you go, bringing it up again with no relevance whatsoever. The reasons I rejected Christianity are much the same as those of didge, stardesk, Ben, veya and other posters- do grow some originality.

you think your being gay does not influence you against God, get real... :D 

No it doesn't. Just because you are too thick to understand that some people actually think doesn't mean you should judge everyone by your insanely low standards.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:34 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

you think your being gay does not influence you against God, get real... :D 

No it doesn't. Just because you are too thick to understand that some people actually think doesn't mean you should judge everyone by your insanely low standards.

don't be so stupid, the fact that the bible states being gay is a sin makes it obvious you would be against the bible..

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:35 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

No it doesn't. Just because you are too thick to understand that some people actually think doesn't mean you should judge everyone by your insanely low standards.

don't be so stupid, the fact that the bible states being gay is a sin makes it obvious you would be against the bible..

But that is not the reason I don't believe in it. You do realize there are gay Christians don't you. Probably more gay people are religious than aren't. So how on earth does that fit your demented assumption?
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:41 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

don't be so stupid, the fact that the bible states being gay is a sin makes it obvious you would be against the bible..

But that is not the reason I don't believe in it. You do realize there are gay Christians don't you. Probably more gay people are religious than aren't. So how on earth does that fit your demented assumption?

of course it's the reason, would you like to produce stats about more religious gay people than not...lol

gay christians are fooling themselves... :D 

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Post by SEXY MAMA Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

don't be so stupid, the fact that the bible states being gay is a sin makes it obvious you would be against the bible..

But that is not the reason I don't believe in it. You do realize there are gay Christians don't you. Probably more gay people are religious than aren't. So how on earth does that fit your demented assumption?

Demented assumption lololol.

There are loads of Muslim gay people too and apparently they have their own mosques and imams.
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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:49 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

But that is not the reason I don't believe in it. You do realize there are gay Christians don't you. Probably more gay people are religious than aren't. So how on earth does that fit your demented assumption?

of course it's the reason, would you like to produce stats about more religious gay people than not...lol

gay christians are fooling themselves... :D 

Ok let's take this slowly. Why do you think Ben, Star, didge and veya are not religious.

Also by the sheer fact there are more religious than none religious people in the world the implication is that most gay people will follow one. Most gay people I know follow one religion or another or at least believe in God.

Again it's called getting out into the real world.

^exactly Sexy.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:54 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

of course it's the reason, would you like to produce stats about more religious gay people than not...lol

gay christians are fooling themselves... :D 

Ok let's take this slowly. Why do you think Ben, Star, didge and veya are not religious.

Also by the sheer fact there are more religious than none religious people in the world the implication is that most gay people will follow one. Most gay people I know follow one religion or another or at least believe in God.

Again it's called getting out into the real world.

^exactly Sexy.

how do i know, they might have lost a loved one and blame God, they might have been raped by a priest, they may be gay, have anything they blame God for the list is endless..

what a ridiculous statement because there are more religions people than none, there must be more religious gay people... :D 

what religion do yu think they would chose.. :D 

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:59 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Ok let's take this slowly. Why do you think Ben, Star, didge and veya are not religious.

Also by the sheer fact there are more religious than none religious people in the world the implication is that most gay people will follow one. Most gay people I know follow one religion or another or at least believe in God.

Again it's called getting out into the real world.

^exactly Sexy.

how do i know, they might have lost a  loved one and blame God, they might have been raped by a priest, they may be gay, have anything they blame God for the list is endless..

what a ridiculous statement because there are more religions people than none, there must be more religious gay people... :D 

what religion do yu think they would chose.. :D 

People don't choose their religion- they are assumed whatever religion by their parents at birth and may or may not out grow it.

I note your reasons people may turn away from religion, all ridiculous as expected- you totally ignore people just learning about the world and rejecting the Bible for the nonesense it is- which I'll bet all of them would say is something like the reason they did.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:00 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Ok let's take this slowly. Why do you think Ben, Star, didge and veya are not religious.

Also by the sheer fact there are more religious than none religious people in the world the implication is that most gay people will follow one. Most gay people I know follow one religion or another or at least believe in God.

Again it's called getting out into the real world.

^exactly Sexy.

how do i know, they might have lost a  loved one and blame God, they might have been raped by a priest, they may be gay, have anything they blame God for the list is endless..

what a ridiculous statement because there are more religions people than none, there must be more religious gay people... :D 

what religion do yu think they would chose.. :D 


That really shows how clouded your reasoning is, how about I and others simply do not believe in fairy tales, but sadly you, why do you think someone suffering would turn away from faith, normally the other way round if someones has been a victim, you really know little. I am sure that is why you did turn to faith, no doubts yours is down to guilt

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:03 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

how do i know, they might have lost a  loved one and blame God, they might have been raped by a priest, they may be gay, have anything they blame God for the list is endless..

what a ridiculous statement because there are more religions people than none, there must be more religious gay people... :D 

what religion do yu think they would chose.. :D 

People don't choose their religion- they are assumed whatever religion by their parents at birth and may or may not out grow it.

I note your reasons people may turn away from religion, all ridiculous as expected- you totally ignore people just learning about the world and rejecting the Bible for the nonesense it is- which I'll bet all of them would say is something like the reason they did.

what utter rubbish i am the only one in my family who has a faith, so that's rubbish with a totally biased view..

of course they would say that is the reason but that would not make it so.... :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:05 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

how do i know, they might have lost a  loved one and blame God, they might have been raped by a priest, they may be gay, have anything they blame God for the list is endless..

what a ridiculous statement because there are more religions people than none, there must be more religious gay people... :D 

what religion do yu think they would chose.. :D 


That really shows how clouded your reasoning is, how about I and others simply do not believe in fairy tales, but sadly you, why do you think someone suffering would turn away from faith, normally the other way round if someones has been a victim, you really know little. I am sure that is why you did turn to faith, no doubts yours is down to guilt

because most people blame God for everything that goes wrong, ironically especially those who claim there is no God.. :D 

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:07 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

People don't choose their religion- they are assumed whatever religion by their parents at birth and may or may not out grow it.

I note your reasons people may turn away from religion, all ridiculous as expected- you totally ignore people just learning about the world and rejecting the Bible for the nonesense it is- which I'll bet all of them would say is something like the reason they did.

what utter rubbish i am the only one in my family who has a faith, so that's rubbish with a totally biased view..

of course they would say that is the reason but that would not make it so.... :D 

I'm afraid it does- unless you think at least 25% of this country (according to the ONS, more according to other polls) had something devastating happen to them which caused them to reject faith.

How about this- the more educated a country becomes the less religious it becomes. Regardless of trauma. Hence the rapid decline of religion in north and western Europe and North America.

If bad things happening to people led to rejections of faith I'm sure Venezuela would be up there with the most atheistic; yet it remains one of the most religious- as do vast illiterate regions of Africa, the Middle-East and other developing regions.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:07 pm

[quote="heavenly father"]
PhilDidge wrote:


That really shows how clouded your reasoning is, how about I and others simply do not believe in fairy tales, but sadly you, why do you think someone suffering would turn away from faith, normally the other way round if someones has been a victim, you really know little. I am sure that is why you did turn to faith, no doubts yours is down to guilt

because most people blame God for everything that goes wrong, ironically especially those who claim there is no God.. :D [/quote


Do they, I do not blame a deity, because none exist to me, I blame people when they do wrong, or myself if I do wrong myself, so again you are greatly mistaken.

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:12 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

because most people blame God for everything that goes wrong, ironically especially those who claim there is no God.. :D [/quote


Do they, I do not blame a deity, because none exist to me, I blame people when they do wrong, or myself if I do wrong myself, so again you are greatly mistaken.

yes they do, it happens all the time.... :D 

but you alleged one did exist for you but you changed your mind.. :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:16 pm

victorismyhero wrote:Thats changing the argument, however...

i'd say no, they are based on similar roots however, and contain many similarities in some areas. I would suggest this is easily enough explained as the qur'an would have been heavily influenced by the already existing torah and bible. Also the way the qur'an treats the material contained in those similarities is different in style to the earlier books. the bible or at least the OT tends to be an "historical narrative" whereas the qur'an is more allusive. SO sharing some roots yes...the same NO

its THE argument you put forward

Christianity is NOT the same as Islam so why would predestination that is the base of Islam be the same as Christianity??

the two are as theologically different as day is to night

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:17 pm

ooops///this @ HF....


again you show your ignorance of reality, the athiests are the LEAST likely to blame "god" for anything.
Most modern pagan followers dont "blame god" (or as most would consider "the creator") for a number of reasons.
The MOST likely to "blame god" are the jews strangely enough (although its not that surprising since THEIR relationship to god is far more "personal" than christians)

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:20 pm

victorismyhero wrote:ooops///this @ HF....


again you show your ignorance of reality, the athiests are the LEAST likely to blame "god" for anything.
Most modern pagan followers dont "blame god" (or as most would consider "the creator") for a number of reasons.
The MOST likely to "blame god" are the jews strangely enough (although its not that surprising since THEIR relationship to god is far more "personal" than christians)

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:21 pm

heavenly father wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:ooops///this @ HF....


again you show your ignorance of reality, the athiests are the LEAST likely to blame "god" for anything.
Most modern pagan followers dont "blame god" (or as most would consider "the creator") for a number of reasons.
The MOST likely to "blame god" are the jews strangely enough (although its not that surprising since THEIR relationship to god is far more "personal" than christians)

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 


Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist if they blamed a god

DOH

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Post by Eilzel Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:22 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 




Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist if they blamed a god

DOH

'Doh' that should be etched on HF's tombstone when he dies  Laughing 
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:23 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 


Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist

DOH

haven't i covered that, some believed and something happens and they blame God and stop believing, some something horrible happens and that makes their mind up there cannot be a God.. :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:24 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist

DOH

haven't i covered that, some believed and something happens and they blame God and stop believing, some something horrible happens and that makes their mind up there cannot be a God.. :D 


You really come out with some real crap, again a person who is atheist would not blame a deity, if someone blames a deity, they are not atheist, because they are blaming something they thus clearly believes exists.

DOH

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:25 pm

Eilzel wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:




Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist if they blamed a god

DOH

'Doh' that should be etched on HF's tombstone when he dies  Laughing 

 lol! 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:29 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:Thats changing the argument, however...

i'd say no, they are based on similar roots however, and contain many similarities in some areas. I would suggest this is easily enough explained as the qur'an would have been heavily influenced by the already existing torah and bible. Also the way the qur'an treats the material contained in those similarities is different in style to the earlier books. the bible or at least the OT tends to be an "historical narrative" whereas the qur'an is more allusive. SO sharing some roots yes...the same NO

its THE argument you put forward

Christianity is NOT the same as Islam so why would predestination that is the base of Islam be the same as Christianity??

the two are as theologically different as day is to night

doubtless they are , however it is STILL within the bible that we have this conundrum..

is god omniscient? yes or no?
if he IS then he knows everything that was, is and yet will be, correct?
It is also in the bible SEVERAL TIMES that those who sin (particularly by denying the holy spirit) will fry. yes or no?

SO, god creates a soul...knowing FULL WELL that it will sin the most unforgivable sin of all, KNOWING FULL WELL that that soul will NOT repent, and that he will as a consequence fry it, for all eternity and then some, in the most unimaginable misery and suffering....

NOW that is sadistic. that reduces god to the old chestnut of "god is a kid with an ant farm"

and again since its relevant...IS or IS NOT the bible the inerrant word of god???


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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:30 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

haven't i covered that, some believed and something happens and they blame God and stop believing, some something horrible happens and that makes their mind up there cannot be a God.. :D 


You really come out with some real crap, again a person who is atheist would not blame a deity, if someone blames a deity, they are not atheist, because they are blaming something they thus clearly believes exists.

DOH  

boy are you dim, they are an atheist because they do not believe in God, yep, good so far, it is an event in life, loss of a loved one that convinced them there could not be a God or it would never have happened, is that any clearer, i can do pictures if it helps... :D 


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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:30 pm

heavenly father wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:ooops///this @ HF....


again you show your ignorance of reality, the athiests are the LEAST likely to blame "god" for anything.
Most modern pagan followers dont "blame god" (or as most would consider "the creator") for a number of reasons.
The MOST likely to "blame god" are the jews strangely enough (although its not that surprising since THEIR relationship to god is far more "personal" than christians)

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 

NO HF I just know a number of Jews, and it has to be said I prefer THEIR attitude to yours any day....

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:32 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

I disagree many blame God for their losses or their crap lives or whatever, as either they believed and have lost their faith, or because it happened they believe their cannot be a God, either way what happened separates them from God..

you clearly do not know Christians compared to jews.. :D 


Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist if they blamed a god

DOH


You waffle on about god more than anyone else

You also refer to god killing people and say what a naughty god he is

Aren't you supposed to be an atheist??

Weird attitude for an atheist to be taking a book about a god he doesn't believe in so seriously

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Post by SEXY MAMA Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:34 pm

Its not weird at all.

Didge likes to debate and is intrigued by peoples belief.
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:34 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


You really come out with some real crap, again a person who is atheist would not blame a deity, if someone blames a deity, they are not atheist, because they are blaming something they thus clearly believes exists.

DOH  

boy are you dim, they are an atheist because they do not believe in God, yep, good so far, it is an event in life, loss of a loved one that convinced them there could not be a God or it would never have happened, is that any clearer, i can do pictures if it helps... :D 



Hilarious, so if they then turn away from atheism, they cease to be atheist.

DOH, s

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:37 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Again how can a person be an atheist if he blames God?

Again an illogical claim, because a person would not blame something they do not believe in, they would thus cease to be atheist if they blamed a god

DOH


You waffle on about god more than anyone else

You also refer to god killing people and say what a naughty god he is

Aren't you supposed to be an atheist??

Weird attitude for an atheist to be taking a book about a god he doesn't believe in so seriously


 lol!  is that even a counter to any point or just that you are pissed I can show up your faith?

I refer to the scripture believed by people to be the work of a loving God, I prove this is not the case, as like Victor I have argued the same on the view if God can see all, then he clearly condemns countless people to suffering, which would prove this deity is a figment of imagination, because nothing that loves something would make it suffer endless pain.

Sorry not my fault I am able to pick holes in your faith and many of my family are Christian just like you, they don't throw their dummies out over it but we talk and debate about it.

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:38 pm

On that note good night

 :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:45 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

its THE argument you put forward

Christianity is NOT the same as Islam so why would predestination that is the base of Islam be the same as Christianity??

the two are as theologically different as day is to night

doubtless they are , however it is STILL within the bible that we have this conundrum..

is god omniscient? yes or no?
if he IS then he knows everything that was, is and yet will be, correct?
It is also in the bible SEVERAL TIMES that those who sin (particularly by denying the holy spirit) will fry. yes or no?

SO, god creates a soul...knowing FULL WELL that it will sin the most unforgivable sin of all, KNOWING FULL WELL that that soul will NOT repent, and that he will as a consequence fry it, for all eternity and then some, in the most unimaginable misery and suffering....

NOW that is sadistic. that reduces god to the old chestnut of "god is a kid with an ant farm"

and again since its relevant...IS or IS NOT the bible the inerrant word of god???


Religion really gets to you doesn't it?? :D 

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:47 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:


You waffle on about god more than anyone else

You also refer to god killing people and say what a naughty god he is

Aren't you supposed to be an atheist??

Weird attitude for an atheist to be taking a book about a god he doesn't believe in so seriously


 lol!  is that even a counter to any point or just that you are pissed I can show up your faith?

I refer to the scripture believed by people to be the work of a loving God, I prove this is not the case, as like Victor I have argued the same on the view if God can see all, then he clearly condemns countless people to suffering, which would prove this deity is a figment of imagination, because nothing that loves something would make it suffer endless pain.

Sorry not my fault I am able to pick holes in your faith and many of my family are Christian just like you, they don't throw their dummies out over it but we talk and debate about it.

Not like you to declare yourself the winner is it??

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Post by Guest Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:20 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

doubtless they are , however it is STILL within the bible that we have this conundrum..

is god omniscient? yes or no?
if he IS then he knows everything that was, is and yet will be, correct?
It is also in the bible SEVERAL TIMES that those who sin (particularly by denying the holy spirit) will fry. yes or no?

SO, god creates a soul...knowing FULL WELL that it will sin the most unforgivable sin of all, KNOWING FULL WELL that that soul will NOT repent, and that he will as a consequence fry it, for all eternity and then some, in the most unimaginable misery and suffering....

NOW that is sadistic. that reduces god to the old chestnut of "god is a kid with an ant farm"

and again since its relevant...IS or IS NOT the bible the inerrant word of god???


Religion really gets to you doesn't it?? :D 

not so much "gets to me" as interests me, and especially when any religion is so full of contradictions....
and based, promulgated and accepted on what are patent lies...

speculation I can accept, even stretching possibilities, but blind faith is the anathema of intelligence...

YOU are knowlegeable on theology...which i find quite admirable ...at least you have had to THINK about it a bit....HF on the other hand....

so come on...is it or isnt it????? commit yourself.... :D 

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:36 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

its not that confusing fuzzmuck

all you're doing is highlighting the lack of freewill in Islam and showing that Allah embodies the illogical and spiteful approach many people hate in god

according to you, if you commit adultery its allahs will and yet he judges you for carrying out his will


God doesn't force you to commit adultery. He's given you the ability (by his will) to choose whether to commit adultery or not.

I think we're all in agreement that no one is born an adulterer.

That goes against the teachings of Islam

You have said before that everything you do happens by Allan's will alone, this is also taught in the qur'an

So according to Islamic doctrine some people ARE born as adulterers

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Post by nicko Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:58 am

why are people arguing about who said what and when hundreds of years ago? none of you can prove what was said it's just guess work. and any way who gives a fcuk? it's all rubbish.
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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:26 pm

thats why faith is required... :D 

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:54 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

That goes against the teachings of Islam

You have said before that everything you do happens by Allan's will alone, this is also taught in the qur'an

So according to Islamic doctrine some people ARE born as adulterers

No, you're making a common miskate.

God's will comes from the fact he's given you the gifts of life and the ability to think and move - all of which can be taken away at an instant and without any control from you (ie not your freewill).

While you are in possession of these gifts, God requires you to 'make the right choice' and follow the straight path.

And if for some incredibly ignorant reason you think that's un-Islamic, try reading the first chapter of the Quran. Lol!  Basketball 

are you saying if you stopped being a muslim allah would take away your ability to walk and talk,,,

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:52 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

are you saying if you stopped being a muslim allah would take away your ability to walk and talk,,,

Lol! No, just your ability to think. As clearly evidenced by your reply.

You walked straight into that one, bro. HA HA!

wow that took a while to think up and still wasn't worth it...

you said allah gives you gifts as long as you walk the right path, so what happens if you don't..

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:34 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

wow that took a while to think up and still wasn't worth it...

you said allah gives you gifts as long as you walk the right path, so what happens if you don't..

By the way, I'm glad you've admitted the Bible is not complete. Perhaps you're not that arrogant after all.

i proved the bible is complete..lol didgerytwo... :D 

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:39 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

wow that took a while to think up and still wasn't worth it...

you said allah gives you gifts as long as you walk the right path, so what happens if you don't..

Hey, I honestly thought you were joking. But it seems you just cannot read. My bad. No need to get so defensive.

Read my post again. God has given you these gifts so you can choose to walk a straight path.

Do you really need me to patronise you further? I'm more than happy to oblige.

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: dream on sunshine and check out paradise

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Post by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:10 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

That goes against the teachings of Islam

You have said before that everything you do happens by Allan's will alone, this is also taught in the qur'an

So according to Islamic doctrine some people ARE born as adulterers

No, you're making a common miskate.

God's will comes from the fact he's given you the gifts of life and the ability to think and move - all of which can be taken away at an instant and without any control from you (ie not your freewill).

While you are in possession of these gifts, God requires you to 'make the right choice' and follow the straight path.

And if for some incredibly ignorant reason you think that's un-Islamic, try reading the first chapter of the Quran. Lol!  Basketball 

that is a markedly differently argument to the one you adopted on FLAP

and it is also against the teachings of the qur'an which is littered with mumbo jumbo about how Allah alone makes all things happen - including believing in him and not believing in him

6:125
Those whom Allah (in His Plan) willeth to guide [yahdeehi] He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying [youthillahoo] He maketh their breast close and constricted as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe….

14: 27
Allah will establish in strength those who believe with the Word that stands firm in this world and in the Hereafter; but Allah will lead astray [youthillou] those who do wrong: Allah doeth what He willeth.

57:22
No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence:

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith
Hadith 96 Narrated byAbdullah ibn Amr
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) went out and he had in his hand two books. He said: Do you know what these two books are? We said: Allah's Messenger, we do not know but only that you inform us.

Thereupon he said: This one which my right hand possesses is a Book from the Lord of the worlds. It contains the names of the inmates of Paradise and the name of their forefathers and those of their tribes. It is most exhaustive and nothing will be added to it nor anything eliminated from it up to eternity.

He then said: This one in my left hand is a Book from the Lord of the worlds. It contains the names of the denizens of Hell and the names of their forefathers and their tribes. It is also exhaustive to the end and nothing will be added to it nor anything will be eliminated from it.

The Companions said: Allah's Messenger, (if this is the case) then where lies the use of doing a deed if the affair is already decided?

Thereupon he said: Stick to the right course and remain as close to it as possible for one who is to be inmate of Paradise would end his life by an act befitting the inmates of Paradise, no matter what he may have done and for one who is the denizen of Hell, his deed would end on that which is a deed of the denizens of Hell, no matter what he may have done (before). Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) then threw the books and making a gesture with his hand said: Allah has made a decision about His servants (a section will be in Paradise and a section in the blaze).

Transmitted by Tirmidhi.

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