Religion is it a choice ?

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Discuss

I think it is a choice
You can either choose to believe in a god/ Supream being or choose not to

Korben Dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why does it matter to you what I believe though? It's not hurting you is it? You seem very angry towards those with faith.

because for hundreds of years religion has held back scientific advancement because of its prejudice and it is still doing it thats why

What kind of scientific advancement?

I've said it all along...in an ideal world religion would brings some peace and have everyone behave, but that's not the case,religion is the reason for so much violence and killing sadly, good on those who do practice their religion in peace and preach peace, but that is not the bigger picture or the reality.

Maybe when some try to understand those who have very good reason to have little or no faith,mthen a better understanding of non believers can be achieved.

I'm just hoping we don't get another Fatihah telling us the earth is flat ffs.

Jesus was a shepherd
And you people who cling on to it are mindless sheep

Korben Dallas wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

Sorry you've had a bad day, hope you and yours are ok TTS   x

No not really FTL

I'm so sorry, you know where I am if I can do anything at all   xxxx

Korben Dallas wrote:Jesus was a shepherd
And you people who cling on to it are mindless  sheep

That's your opinion, but I don't get why it matters to you if people are mindless sheep or not.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:If you want to limit god to mere energy which could then result in the big bang then you are dramatically altering what most people would understand a god to be. If 'god = energy' with no added powers or conciousness I might just believe in god, but energy alone isn't how I define god nor would others.

We can of course observe the visible universe and have an idea of what is going on and the movement of galaxies implies the big bang happened, though I agree there are limitations, but these are readily acknowledged by scientists so there is no arrogance.

our idea of energy is based on what we as humans know of energy, which when we again consider that we don't even inhabit a speck of dust in comparison to the scale of the universe, i would say that our knowledge is pretty limited  

yes we can have a look and try to understand it but our understanding is limited, and even though this is acknowledged, the arrogance comes into it when the scientific atheists say "we have no idea how it happened but it definitely WASN'T god"

Because God as we understand Him (and in all mainstream religious it is quite explicitly a 'Him') is a VERY human construct. It is a human idea of trying to understand how we got here which is pretty clearly based on a serious lack of any scientific understanding of the world thousands of years ago (though even ancient Greek philosophers had doubts about 'gods'). It isn't necessarily scientific to just rule out a possibility, and there is always a shred of it in any case; but God is an assertion without any evidence, so as 'hypotheses' go, it is a pretty weak one.

Korben Dallas wrote:Jesus was a shepherd
And you people who cling on to it are mindless  sheep

  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:Jesus was a shepherd
And you people who cling on to it are mindless  sheep

That's your opinion, but I don't get why it matters to you if people are mindless sheep or not.

Because mindless sheep have a nasty habit of doing nasty things they probably wouldn't do if they'd stop being sheep and think once in a while; sheeple think they are perfectly within in their rights, due their ancient rule books to- mutilate their children's genitals, treat women as second class citizens (to the point of even controlling how they dress), to fordin contraception and abortion, discriminate against gay people, make claims to geographical areas, blow themselves up along with many others...

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

That's your opinion, but I don't get why it matters to you if people are mindless sheep or not.

Because mindless sheep have a nasty habit of doing nasty things they probably wouldn't do if they'd stop being sheep and think once in a while; sheeple think they are perfectly within in their rights, due their ancient rule books to- mutilate their children's genitals, treat women as second class citizens (to the point of even controlling how they dress), to fordin contraception and abortion, discriminate against gay people, make claims to geographical areas, blow themselves up along with many others...

Most religious people I know wouldn't do any of those things.

What do you mean by "fordin contraception and abortion"?

The amount of priests and other holy figures who have been involved in sexual mole station of kids is shocking,they must be very convincing to get into those sorts of jobs.

suffer not the little children

When it comes to the subject of faith and religion on forums, most of the hatred is directed towards people with faith, and yet those same people tend to complain of the hatred of religious people towards others.

Korben Dallas wrote:suffer not the little children

....indeed mate, Gods miracles eh...poor wee mites, some folk just think with their arse.

Give Korben a break guys, I sense something awful has happened   Hope I'm wrong.

feelthelove wrote:Give Korben a break guys, I sense something awful has happened   Hope I'm wrong.

Who's giving him a hard time?

Korben Dallas wrote:suffer not the little children

..moreover, some people laugh and sneer at disabled kids like on those pics, but pretend to be all goody two shoes,mor let other mock disabled kids and stand back and say nothing.

feelthelove wrote:Give Korben a break guys, I sense something awful has happened   Hope I'm wrong.

I totally agree FTL.

Joy Division wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:suffer not the little children

....indeed mate, Gods miracles eh...poor wee mites, some folk just think with their arse.

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

Joy Division wrote:



..moreover, some people laugh and sneer at disabled kids like on those pics, but pretend to be all goody two shoes,mor let other mock disabled kids and stand back and say nothing.

Who's laughing and sneering at them?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


....indeed mate, Gods miracles eh...poor wee mites, some folk just think with their arse.

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

That's just the pint...I don't believe in God and neither does KD, it's people's insensitivity which pisses him and me off by others saying there is a God and how he works miracles as well as bad things...

Religion should be practised in private or with others who are also religious, not force fed to others who do not believe.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



..moreover, some people laugh and sneer at disabled kids like on those pics, but pretend to be all goody two shoes,mor let other mock disabled kids and stand back and say nothing.

Who's laughing and sneering at them?

Oh plenty in RL and on certain other forums.

..often called spazzies and the like.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


....indeed mate, Gods miracles eh...poor wee mites, some folk just think with their arse.

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

What are you stupid There is no fucking god that`s what i am saying what are you dence

Joy Division wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

That's just the pint...I don't believe in God and neither does KD, it's people's insensitivity which pisses him and me off by others saying there is a God and how he works miracles as well as bad things...

Religion should be practised in private or with others who are also religious, not force fed to others who do not believe.

What insensitivity? People with faith can't cure those children, so why are you having a go at them because those children are disabled? If you don't believe in God, you have to blame nature or science don't you? There's not much point in blaming nature, so perhaps you should blame science.

Korben Dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

What are you stupid There is no fucking god that`s what i am saying what are you dence

I was replying to JD actually, not you. Perhaps you should read posts properly before you start getting abusive.

Joy Division wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Who's laughing and sneering at them?

Oh plenty in RL and on certain other forums.

..often called spazzies  and the like.

What does that have to do with God or religious people?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:
What are you stupid There is no fucking god that`s what i am saying what are you dence

I was replying to JD actually, not you. Perhaps you should read posts properly before you start getting abusive.

yes well its hard to read when i am crying all the fucking time

Korben Dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You think it's God's fault those children are disabled?

For example, thalidomide was developed by man - so it was science which caused some children to be born without proper limbs.

What are you stupid There is no fucking god that`s what i am saying what are you dence

Thing is mate, I've know this one to laugh at many racist comments made by a poster named Trapezerjohn, laugh at disabled kids, and stand and say nothing when Stooo and Curious and Vicky on Dogs have made vile accusations that folk are paedophiles.

I'm sorry , Ben won't like this...but a real bad egg this one.


And Rags, you've a real nerve calling anyone on here abusive.

Korben Dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I was replying to JD actually, not you. Perhaps you should read posts properly before you start getting abusive.

yes well its hard to read when i am crying all the fucking time

Hey mate, if u want to talk, just PM me.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Because mindless sheep have a nasty habit of doing nasty things they probably wouldn't do if they'd stop being sheep and think once in a while; sheeple think they are perfectly within in their rights, due their ancient rule books to- mutilate their children's genitals, treat women as second class citizens (to the point of even controlling how they dress), to fordin contraception and abortion, discriminate against gay people, make claims to geographical areas, blow themselves up along with many others...

Most religious people I know wouldn't do any of those things.

What do you mean by "fordin contraception and abortion"?

*Forbid- spelling error, though pretty what I meant obvious in context   

And while you may know some people who wouldn't there are others who would. And it is totally unwarranted when the beliefs are based on fallacies.

Joy Division wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:
What are you stupid There is no fucking god that`s what i am saying what are you dence

Thing is mate, I've know this one to laugh at many racist comments made by a poster named Trapezerjohn, laugh at disabled kids, and stand and say nothing when Stooo and Curious and Vicky on Dogs have made vile accusations that folk are paedophiles.

I'm sorry , Ben won't like this...but a real bad egg this one.


And Rags, you've a real nerve calling anyone on here abusive.

Huh? I thought we were talking about religious faith.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.

Veya and I discussed this before -- he made some very interesting points, I believe he called the video game Final Fantasy VII into them as well!

I think many people feel the need for some sort of spiritual fulfillment, and it's a shame that so many (if not most) of the religions available are full of contradictions and just flat-out insult your intelligence.

I'd have a far easier time accepting the Christian god if it wasn't taught, for example, that Hitler could go to Heaven for believing but that somebody like me could go to Hell just for finding it impossible to believe.

I have replied with this answer in another thread , God of the bible does not see any level of sin , sin is sin to God and because God forgives all sins if we confess them then he has to be faithful and forgive us no matter what it is we have done. Hebrews 8:12  I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins & their iniquities will I remember no more.
I think we all want God to be a fair God (if we are genuinely searching for God) , imagine if you murdered someone and then had a chance to become a Christian but there was no way God would accept you because you were a murderer , that wouldn't be fair would it because you really want to believe and really want to be forgiven . This is why God forgives all sins so everyone can repent . It doesn't matter how as a person you or I feel about someone who has committed murder sadly to say even Hitler , but even if Hitler genuinely out of guilt and regret asked God for forgiveness and truly meant it then God would have to forgive him and accept him because its God's promise and God cannot go back on his word. I know exactly what you mean about Hitler because he was one of the most evil men alive and what he did doesn't bare thinking about , but because we have a God who is a forgiving God he forgives all who wholeheartedly repent and seek him .

Nnnehh.

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Most religious people I know wouldn't do any of those things.

What do you mean by "fordin contraception and abortion"?

*Forbid- spelling error, though pretty what I meant obvious in context   

And while you may know some people who wouldn't there are others who would. And it is totally unwarranted when the beliefs are based on fallacies.

Oh right. That would be the Catholic Church, yes? People are free to leave that Church if they want to use contraception or have an abortion.

Raggamuffin wrote:When it comes to the subject of faith and religion on forums, most of the hatred is directed towards people with faith, and yet those same people tend to complain of the hatred of religious people towards others.

In real life religious hate is apparent all the time- on forums the main arguments against that sort of thing are from atheists- who don't hate religious people- but do hate the religions.

Korben Dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I was replying to JD actually, not you. Perhaps you should read posts properly before you start getting abusive.

yes well its hard to read when i am crying all the fucking time

You ok? Tell me whos bothering you? X

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:When it comes to the subject of faith and religion on forums, most of the hatred is directed towards people with faith, and yet those same people tend to complain of the hatred of religious people towards others.

In real life religious hate is apparent all the time- on forums the main arguments against that sort of thing are from atheists- who don't hate religious people- but do hate the religions.

It's not apparent all the time in real life - except for the stuff you read in the papers. There are bound to be extremists in any religion.

Maine coon lover wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Veya and I discussed this before -- he made some very interesting points, I believe he called the video game Final Fantasy VII into them as well!

I think many people feel the need for some sort of spiritual fulfillment, and it's a shame that so many (if not most) of the religions available are full of contradictions and just flat-out insult your intelligence.

I'd have a far easier time accepting the Christian god if it wasn't taught, for example, that Hitler could go to Heaven for believing but that somebody like me could go to Hell just for finding it impossible to believe.

I have replied with this answer in another thread , God of the bible does not see any level of sin , sin is sin to God and because God forgives all sins if we confess them then he has to be faithful and forgive us no matter what it is we have done. Hebrews 8:12  I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins & their iniquities will I remember no more.
I think we all want God to be a fair God (if we are genuinely searching for God) , imagine if you murdered someone and then had a chance to become a Christian but there was no way God would accept you because you were a murderer , that wouldn't be fair would it because you really want to believe and really want to be forgiven . This is why God forgives all sins so everyone can repent . It doesn't matter how as a person you or I feel about someone who has committed murder sadly to say even Hitler , but even if Hitler genuinely out of guilt and regret asked God for forgiveness and truly meant it then God would have to forgive him and accept him because its God's promise and God cannot go back on his word. I know exactly what you mean about Hitler because he was one of the most evil men alive and what he did doesn't bare thinking about , but because we have a God who is a forgiving God he forgives all who wholeheartedly repent and seek him .

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

Hitler and the Popeg) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

Maine coon lover wrote:

i think he may prefer to have arms and legs don`t you

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:
yes well its hard to read when i am crying all the fucking time

You ok? Tell me whos bothering you? X

I'm worried Sexy   xxx

feelthelove wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

You ok? Tell me whos bothering you? X

I'm worried Sexy   xxx

Dont worry FTL xxxx  

Korben Dallas wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I have replied with this answer in another thread , God of the bible does not see any level of sin , sin is sin to God and because God forgives all sins if we confess them then he has to be faithful and forgive us no matter what it is we have done. Hebrews 8:12  I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins & their iniquities will I remember no more.
I think we all want God to be a fair God (if we are genuinely searching for God) , imagine if you murdered someone and then had a chance to become a Christian but there was no way God would accept you because you were a murderer , that wouldn't be fair would it because you really want to believe and really want to be forgiven . This is why God forgives all sins so everyone can repent . It doesn't matter how as a person you or I feel about someone who has committed murder sadly to say even Hitler , but even if Hitler genuinely out of guilt and regret asked God for forgiveness and truly meant it then God would have to forgive him and accept him because its God's promise and God cannot go back on his word. I know exactly what you mean about Hitler because he was one of the most evil men alive and what he did doesn't bare thinking about , but because we have a God who is a forgiving God he forgives all who wholeheartedly repent and seek him .

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school.  (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.”  His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest.  Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals.  As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.”  -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church.  Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy.  In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican.  Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church.  This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.”  Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

Hitler and the Popeg) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church.  The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education.  This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin.  It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday.  The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.”  (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.  He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.  Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity.  It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.”  –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.”  -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

great information thanks .

Maine coon lover wrote:

Korben Dallas wrote:
Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school.  (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.”  His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest.  Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals.  As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.”  -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church.  Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy.  In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican.  Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church.  This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.”  Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

Hitler and the Popeg) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church.  The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education.  This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin.  It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday.  The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.”  (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.  He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.  Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity.  It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.”  –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.”  -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

great information thanks .

your welcome .......

Korben Dallas wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I have replied with this answer in another thread , God of the bible does not see any level of sin , sin is sin to God and because God forgives all sins if we confess them then he has to be faithful and forgive us no matter what it is we have done. Hebrews 8:12  I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins & their iniquities will I remember no more.
I think we all want God to be a fair God (if we are genuinely searching for God) , imagine if you murdered someone and then had a chance to become a Christian but there was no way God would accept you because you were a murderer , that wouldn't be fair would it because you really want to believe and really want to be forgiven . This is why God forgives all sins so everyone can repent . It doesn't matter how as a person you or I feel about someone who has committed murder sadly to say even Hitler , but even if Hitler genuinely out of guilt and regret asked God for forgiveness and truly meant it then God would have to forgive him and accept him because its God's promise and God cannot go back on his word. I know exactly what you mean about Hitler because he was one of the most evil men alive and what he did doesn't bare thinking about , but because we have a God who is a forgiving God he forgives all who wholeheartedly repent and seek him .

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school.  (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.”  His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest.  Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals.  As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.”  -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church.  Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy.  In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican.  Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church.  This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.”  Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

Hitler and the Popeg) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church.  The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education.  This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin.  It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday.  The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.”  (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.  He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.  Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity.  It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.”  –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.”  -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

 ::smthg:: ::smthg:: 

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhart Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing,

PhilDidge wrote:I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhart Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing,

One maniac following "another" maniac to surprise there then

PhilDidge wrote:I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhart Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing,

really want to go down this road again??

smelly_bandit wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

Adolf Hitler in 1941 to General Gerhart Engel. In John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing,

really want to go down this road again??

yes happy to educate you again even though the evidence is there for all to see.

So are you now questioning his own words on his faith?

lol

Back later and will look forward to more of your stupidity, you can also explain why millions of Christians were willing participants in the genocides.


I love schooling you on history

Bye

PhilDidge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

really want to go down this road again??

yes happy to educate you again even though the evidence is there for all to see.

So are you now questioning his own words on his faith?

lol

Back later and will look forward to more of your stupidity, you can also explain why millions of Christians were willing participants in the genocides.


I love schooling you on history

Bye

Hitler's world view was diametrically opposed to Christianity, for which Hitler had nothing but contempt. Hitler never attended church in Vienna, and some sources note that his greatest enemy--besides Marxists--was the Jesuits. One anonymous eyewitness reported that "Hitler said [c. 1912] the biggest evil for the German people was accepting Christian humility." (p. 250) Even though in Mein Kampf Hitler criticized Schönerer's anti-Catholic Los-von-Rom (Free from Rome) movement, during his time in Vienna Hitler was sympathetic to it. Hitler recognized that Schönerer's position had been a public relations fiasco, and thus a political blunder, so later he always shied away from publicly criticizing the Christian churches, despite his personal antipathy toward them.