Are Muslim Terrorists Really Motivated By Islam?

First topic message reminder :

Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators as Manchester reels from the worst terror attack to hit the UK in over a decade.

The 22-year-old was remembered as a “fun guy” who drank, took drugs and possibly had links with local gangs before appearing increasingly religious as his radicalisation deepened.

The same transformation has been documented in many of Europe’s deadliest terrorists, including petty criminals and drug dealers in the Isis “super cell” behind the Paris and Brussels attacks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html

These terrorists dont seem religiously motivated.

Hi Tommy - good to see you!

I wonder if all this multiculturalism is just making people feel confused. There's been a lot of talk about our "way of life", and how the Jihadists want to wreck it. Perhaps that's true, but what is our way of life? I think that depends on what your own particular lifestyle consists of, and your job, etc. It seems to me that the way of life here consists largely of the pursuit of material things and having a good time. Maybe to the Jihadists it's too self-indulgent and they want to spoil it for others? Because of their "heritage", they think about the way of life for other Muslims in other countries, and it pisses them off that people here appear to be cosseted and spoilt in comparison? Perhaps that's why an event where people have fun was targeted?

Raggamuffin wrote:Hi Tommy - good to see you!

I wonder if all this multiculturalism is just making people feel confused. There's been a lot of talk about our "way of life", and how the Jihadists want to wreck it. Perhaps that's true, but what is our way of life? I think that depends on what your own particular lifestyle consists of, and your job, etc. It seems to me that the way of life here consists largely of the pursuit of material things and having a good time. Maybe to the Jihadists it's too self-indulgent and they want to spoil it for others? Because of their "heritage", they think about the way of life for other Muslims in other countries, and it pisses them off that people here appear to be cosseted and spoilt in comparison? Perhaps that's why an event where people have fun was targeted?

I see our way of life as being free to wear what we like and speak as we please, to make our own choices in love and marriage, to be able to work and make our way financially to the best of our ability, to enjoy our beautiful countryside and architecture, our places of historical interest. Our patience and tolerance as a nation. Our health care system. Our benefits system.

Of course, non of the above is perfect or works for everyone in a perfect way, but I think you have to go and visit a third world country and see how those people live to really appreciate what we have here in Britain.

Tommy Monk wrote:HoratioTarr

I did say if it was proven they had gone to support IS.  Plenty of them have, and plenty of them are back here in the good old Britain they despise and loathe so much.

On a final note, I found this interesting.

Akram Ramadan (who knew the Abedi family) said that most of the Libyan youth in Manchester felt “disbanded” and did not know where they belonged. “They don’t belong to either society. They are neither Libyan nor British. They are not accepted anywhere. And Libyan society considers them half-breeds. They are not accepted, which leads to so much frustration and discontent.”

Where's the multiculturism here then?


Raggamuffin

I said a long time ago that there should be zero tolerance for anyone who goes off to join ISIS, and that "Jihadi brides" are not victims, they are criminals.

Re the rest of your post, I think all this insistence on keeping some kind of tie with a culture which happens to match your colour, or was the culture of your grandparents  or even parents, is a bit pathetic. If they were born here, if they went to school here, if they have a Manchester accent, they are not Libyan, so why do they insist they are?



HoratioTarr

You'd still have Libyan heritage and I agree that nobody should be forced to forget that.   Everybody's culture matters.  What I find so offensive is the double standards.   These radicals/potential radicals come over here to seek refuge, get looked after financially by the State, and then turn traitor and try to annihilate our people.   It's even worse if they're born here.   It's the sense of fucking entitlement these people have that gets to me.    "You can't do/say/think this because I'm Muslim and that's not allowed."  "I can preach hate on the streets but don't you dare crack jokes about Mohammed."    

Well If I want to call Mohammed a peasant paedophile who married nine year olds, I uphold my right of free speech in this country to do so.  So you can  fuck right off and stick your Holy Jihad up your arse.




Good evening all!

When so many people from so many different countries and so many different cultures etc are being allowed to flood in, as well as them all being encouraged to be proud of their identity/culture/heritage etc, and to carry on with it here among themselves, in their own separate cultural/heritage identity based groups etc... creating so much division here in uk... we are told that we can celebrate the diversity of multiculturalism!!!


So... "the Libyan youth in Manchester felt “disbanded” and did not know where they belonged. “ They don’t belong to either society. They are neither Libyan nor British. They are not accepted anywhere. And Libyan society considers them half-breeds. They are not accepted, which leads to so much frustration and discontent ..."...?


Well... I dont feel part of any of the multitude of other 'multicultural' groups here in this country that have been foisted upon us over the last few decades either... as i'm sure none of them feel part of any of the others... and with the continued forced 'inclusion' of every other culture/heritage/identity into my own... i dont even feel like i'm part of that much any more either...

Not British...?

Being British these days is all about being submerged in a sea of every other culture/heritage/identity from every other part of the world... after the flood of mass immigration... so we can all be the same... while all being different... under the banner of multiculturalism... and celebrating diversity etc...

Isnt it...!?


"everybody's culture matters"...?

???


No... only white english people are expected to bow down in respectful recognition of every other foreign/ethnic/cultural group here in the uk...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:HoratioTarr

I did say if it was proven they had gone to support IS.  Plenty of them have, and plenty of them are back here in the good old Britain they despise and loathe so much.

On a final note, I found this interesting.

Akram Ramadan (who knew the Abedi family) said that most of the Libyan youth in Manchester felt “disbanded” and did not know where they belonged. “They don’t belong to either society. They are neither Libyan nor British. They are not accepted anywhere. And Libyan society considers them half-breeds. They are not accepted, which leads to so much frustration and discontent.”

Where's the multiculturism here then?


Raggamuffin

I said a long time ago that there should be zero tolerance for anyone who goes off to join ISIS, and that "Jihadi brides" are not victims, they are criminals.

Re the rest of your post, I think all this insistence on keeping some kind of tie with a culture which happens to match your colour, or was the culture of your grandparents  or even parents, is a bit pathetic. If they were born here, if they went to school here, if they have a Manchester accent, they are not Libyan, so why do they insist they are?



HoratioTarr

You'd still have Libyan heritage and I agree that nobody should be forced to forget that.   Everybody's culture matters.  What I find so offensive is the double standards.   These radicals/potential radicals come over here to seek refuge, get looked after financially by the State, and then turn traitor and try to annihilate our people.   It's even worse if they're born here.   It's the sense of fucking entitlement these people have that gets to me.    "You can't do/say/think this because I'm Muslim and that's not allowed."  "I can preach hate on the streets but don't you dare crack jokes about Mohammed."    

Well If I want to call Mohammed a peasant paedophile who married nine year olds, I uphold my right of free speech in this country to do so.  So you can  fuck right off and stick your Holy Jihad up your arse.




Good evening all!

When so many people from so many different countries and so many different cultures etc are being allowed to flood in, as well as them all being encouraged to be proud of their identity/culture/heritage etc, and to carry on with it here among themselves, in their own separate cultural/heritage identity based groups etc... creating so much division here in uk... we are told that we can celebrate the diversity of multiculturalism!!!


So... "the Libyan youth in Manchester felt “disbanded” and did not know where they belonged. “ They don’t belong to either society. They are neither Libyan nor British. They are not accepted anywhere. And Libyan society considers them half-breeds. They are not accepted, which leads to so much frustration and discontent ..."...?


Well... I dont feel part of any of the multitude of other 'multicultural' groups here in this country that have been foisted upon us over the last few decades either... as i'm sure none of them feel part of any of the others... and with the continued forced 'inclusion' of every other culture/heritage/identity into my own... i dont even feel like i'm part of that much any more either...

Not British...?  

Being British these days is all about being submerged in a sea of every other culture/heritage/identity from every other part of the world... after the flood of mass immigration... so we can all be the same... while all being different... under the banner of multiculturalism... and celebrating diversity etc...

Isnt it...!?


"everybody's culture matters"...?

???


No... only white english people are expected to bow down in respectful recognition of every other foreign/ethnic/cultural group here in the uk...

Are you saying nobody's culture matters?

I think you'll find that throughout history world cultures have been either wiped out or expected to change or diminish. In this day and age this shouldn't be happening.

So too ignore tommy but touch in HT's posts

The issues is they are only 'Tolerated'
Never embraced
It is actually the British German comedian that appears on shows like "Would i lie to you" that has a bit in one of his acts that points it out the best.

"Tolerated"
You tolerate things you hate....

I believe it is this tolerance but never embracing the migrant that causes many if Britain's issues.

And Britain Started the Cultural hegemony that caused thousands of cultures to wiped out and replaced By 'British Culture' thus it is unfair to complain now that the evolved new world culture of 'multiculturalism' is taking over you, just as Brits once argued a stronger culture now the new world can argue the same in return... the death of many of the little bits of British culture are only natural evolution.

to answer the Op no they are not
they are motivated by Isolation for the societies they have often grown up in.

the demonetization of their culture just gives them an outlet to return the hate that is so often been pushed on them by the broader community.

But really are they any different than the Colorado university shooters that praised Satan? no they are dis effected youth isolated from the community and in this day and age of global communication there is groups more than willing to twist them to their own agenda

Well as seen the terrorism started long before any western intervention. And if we really want to be pedantic over this. It started with the Arabization of the Middle East and North Africa. People are quick to condemn colonialism, but the Arabization is essentially colonialism.

The major elephant in the room on this and why it is all about Islam. That we see extremist Muslims only see other Muslims as victims and not anyone else. That its as if any Muslim death is an attack on Islam itself. That is troublesome to say the least. Which goes back to my original point with religious racism. That it allows for a collective view within the faith to place Muslims above all others and a deity seen as first and foremost to obey. Thankfully most Muslims do not view the world this way, but the religion is engineered to view Muslims as superior to others. The same can be found within all 3 Abrahamic faiths. As they look to reward followers of that faith and punish those who are non-believers.

This allows for the normalization and justification to murder those deemed as non-followers of that faith. It happened for centuries within Christianity also, but now where people are less literal within their beliefs, that problem has dramatically decreased. Most Christians do not as Muslims do, when Christians are persecuted, murdered and oppressed in the Middle East. Seek any form of vengeance. There is two reasons or this, Jesus taught a message of peace and there is no view around any Transgressions. Where in the past and rarely today Christians did commit violence based of the bible. The justifications came from the Old testament works. So where many Christians are rightly outraged, you rarely see (Lord's Resistance Army is one example) in any shape or form any Christian inspired terrorism against Muslim majority countries. 

So the core problem is Islam itself, where they collectively view themselves separate and above all other people. Why you see them based off doctrine believe they should use violence against Non-Muslims. Where violence from Muslims against other Muslims is deemed a lesser crime to when Non-Muslims kill Muslims.No matter the intent, of which with the west they try to prevent any loss of civilian life. Islamic terrorists go out of their way to ensure as many innocent people die as possible. So the claim to equivalency from western foreign policy simple does not hold true. The terrorism was happening before foreign intervention. The reality is also geared to fight and die through martyrdom.

The fact is time and time again people ignore what is the real problem here. How an ideology can bind people together in importance over everyone else. Like I said, a religious form of racism.

As an example on this, I will give an example of which all islamic apologists use when claiming Islam is peaceful.

They quote the following verse:

Sahih International: Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

I mean not only is the point being made to Jews and not Muslims in the above, its telling Jews what they can or cannot do. Forcing their beliefs onto Jews. The above quote is not an instruction to Muslims or anyone else but Jews. As the word decreed gives away that this is an order. It does not say they decreed this onto all humanity. And this is based off the biblical story of Cain and Able. Allah even sends a crow to show Cain how to hide the body of his dead brother its claimed.

As seen from the verse below, the Quran allows for people to, murder all Non-Muslims. Based then off claimed transgressions towards Muslims/Islam. Not any transgressions to anyone else or their beliefs, just Islam.

Sahih International: Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

So clearly the first verse has nothing to do with all humans and souls on who is killed. Its simple a decree forced onto Jews, where Muslims are given a free pass to kill based off a claim to transgressions on Islam. A serious open invitation to commit violence. As it supersedes the former verse, giving justification for Muslims to kill, crucify or maim people

I mean imagine such a quote if it was based racially. That anyone that transgresses or wages war on white Americans or the white President should be killed, crucified or maimed? Would not the world be in horror, if that was the American policy on dealing even with the war on terror? Or even worse, this was the policy on how to view African Americans, where any thing they did, could be constituted as a transgression or viewed as a war on white Americas? 

The lefties would have a stoke if they did and I would also suffer one if we allowed such hate to be taught. In any other sphere of teaching the above verse would be considered hate speech. Only within religion is such hate speech given a free pass and that is incredible dangerous and stupid. As thousands of years of religious violence proves.

Is it not verses like this that extremist Muslims use to normalize and justify their terrorism? That they then view any Muslim deaths as if its a war on Islam. Based already what i said about a religious form of racism. Where believers are placed that much above the rest as a family? Is that not an open invitation to violence itself from the above verse. Where no such verse is made about what do to Muslims who kill other Muslims. As those they kill are viewed as apostates.

the elephant in the room is that we have had twice as many mass shooting in the USA by Non Muslims that no one is calling terrorism and rightfully pointing out a re derange individual, isolated and dis effect from the regular community
it is almost like a group are trying to demonize a segment of the community and in doing so further the aims of groups like ISIS.

And the idea that Islam Binds them together is BULLSHIT Islamic community TRIED to notify British Authorities only to be ignored and treated like second class citizens in the country that many were born in. I have seen more Brits Try and Justify British atrocities than Muslim justifying Islamic ones

Thorin STOP DOING ISIS WORK FOR THEM !!!!!!

we all know your a hate filled bigot no need to keep going on about your hate filled bigotry at Nauseaim

veya_victaous wrote:Thorin STOP DOING ISIS WORK FOR THEM !!!!!!

we all know your a hate filled bigot no need to keep going on about your hate filled bigotry at Nauseaim  

So more tantrums and not countering any of my points

So what is the ideology behind mass shootings and are they all  connected?

Er no, what a daft view to make

Islam does bind them together, I have asked Zack and other Muslims  before and you can do so yourself and he will tell you he places Allah above all things including family and that Muslims are seen as brothers and sisters

HoratioTarr wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Not British...?  

Being British these days is all about being submerged in a sea of every other culture/heritage/identity from every other part of the world... after the flood of mass immigration... so we can all be the same... while all being different... under the banner of multiculturalism... and celebrating diversity etc...

Isnt it...!?


"everybody's culture matters"...?

???


No... only white english people are expected to bow down in respectful recognition of every other foreign/ethnic/cultural group here in the uk...

Are you saying nobody's culture matters?    

I think you'll find that throughout history world cultures have been either wiped out or expected to change or diminish.   In this day and age this shouldn't be happening.

If foreigners want to come here and carry on behaving in the way of their foreign culture then the should not then complain about feeling different and not British etc...

And if all cultures matter, then isnt it wrong to try to force British culture to change by having to accept all these foreign immigrant cultures as somehow being 'British'...? When they are not British cultures at all...?

And to answer the op question... yes, they are!

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, we all know that there could well be other attacks. The authorities will stop some of them, and other terrorists will go under the radar, or they'll be deemed to not be a particular threat, even if they're known about. We know that the terrorists who committed the murders on 7/7 had been to Pakistan to training camps, but has anyone been banned from going to Pakistan? No.

Banning going to Pakistan? That would be a vote loser. Democracy!

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

You'd still have Libyan heritage and I agree that nobody should be forced to forget that.   Everybody's culture matters.  What I find so offensive is the double standards.   These radicals/potential radicals come over here to seek refuge, get looked after financially by the State, and then turn traitor and try to annihilate our people.   It's even worse if they're born here.   It's the sense of fucking entitlement these people have that gets to me.    "You can't do/say/think this because I'm Muslim and that's not allowed."  "I can preach hate on the streets but don't you dare crack jokes about Mohammed."    

Well If I want to call Mohammed a peasant paedophile who married nine year olds, I uphold my right of free speech in this country to do so.  So you can  fuck right off and stick your Holy Jihad up your arse.

Why do they want that "heritage"? If they want to be Libyan, they should move to Libya, otherwise they should just be British or English. It's like Muslims who bang on about Muslims in other country. It's this insistence on being a "Muslim brother" which is half the trouble.

I understand why you think the "Muslim brother" thing may be a hinderence to integration. But there's a good side to that, which is charitable and loving.

I think the lack of integration in the Uk is also down to a sense of belonging. Whereas in the USA, you're team America from the beginning.

Tommy Monk wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Are you saying nobody's culture matters?    

I think you'll find that throughout history world cultures have been either wiped out or expected to change or diminish.   In this day and age this shouldn't be happening.

If foreigners want to come here and carry on behaving in the way of their foreign culture then the should not then complain about feeling different and not British etc...

And if all cultures matter, then isnt it wrong to try to force British culture to change by having to accept all these foreign immigrant cultures as somehow being 'British'...? When they are not British cultures at all...?

They have a right to uphold their culture. What they don't have a right to do is force it on us. Some do. Most don't.

The only element trying to 'change' British culture are the PC brigade. Your average Brit isn't going let what they consider to be their heritage and culture drop no matter what.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why do they want that "heritage"? If they want to be Libyan, they should move to Libya, otherwise they should just be British or English. It's like Muslims who bang on about Muslims in other country. It's this insistence on being a "Muslim brother" which is half the trouble.

I understand why you think the "Muslim brother" thing may be a hinderence to integration.  But there's a good side to that, which is charitable and loving.  

I think the lack of integration in the Uk is also down to a sense of belonging. Whereas in the USA, you're team America from the beginning.

I'm not talking about it being a hindrance to integration, I'm talking about murders committed on behalf of Muslims in other countries on the grounds that the murderers are "defending their brothers and sisters".

HT...

Are you saying nobody's culture matters?    


I think you'll find that throughout history world cultures have been either wiped out or expected to change or diminish.   In this day and age this shouldn't be happening.



TM...

If foreigners want to come here and carry on behaving in the way of their foreign culture then the should not then complain about feeling different and not British etc...

And if all cultures matter, then isnt it wrong to try to force British culture to change by having to accept all these foreign immigrant cultures as somehow being 'British'...? When they are not British cultures at all...?



HT...

They have a right to uphold their culture.  What they don't have a right to do is force it on us.   Some do. Most don't.

The only element trying to 'change' British culture are the PC brigade.  Your average Brit isn't going let what they consider to be their heritage and culture drop no matter what.  





Which is the fundamental flaw in multiculturalism... the more mass immigration goes on, the more it creates increasingly wider and deeper multicultural divisions between all the vast numbers of different foreign cultures within our country...

None of these foreign cultures are British... and none of the people here who insist on behaving in the way of a foreign culture will ever be able to feel British either...

And trying to shoe horn all these foreign cultures into being 'neo British' is an affront to British people and our culture/identity etc...

You said 'all cultures matter'... and we should all have the right to uphold our culture etc...

The thing about having a cultural identity is that not only do you have to own it, you also have to claim it.

When you can't do that as a race, religion or whatever demographic, this leaves a cultural vacuum. Which is then filled by other cultures.

That vacuum gives us events like Notting Hill Carnival. What event celebrates Englishness?

the issue is that some brits like tommy want all or nothing not realizing that if you at just made a list of half ideals that define British culture people can be British and whatever else.
But to expect everyone to have tea and scones in the afternoon and be pissed as a twat falling through doors of a curry house by midnight is not going to work.

for aussies the easiest is Beaches and barbeques, all the other cultures have embraced the day at the beach and the barbequed feast even if the Chinese have red pork and sweet sausages and the Muslims have Lamb rack and kofta.
although there is lots of little things and each group finds it can embrace somethings. thus we are a successful Multicultural society because we all value the freedom that is inherent in only needing to comply to stereotype a little bit.
We don't expect the new migrants to be exactly like the people already here, just a few basic ideals.

Also a big part is Aussie telling migrants that have become citizens or children born here that 'They are Aussie' , we say sure you're "a 'whatever' Aussie" or and "Aussie of 'whatever' decent" but still Aussie.

Of course the post ww2 migration from Europe to Australia helps since so many Whites turn around to Asian, Middle eastern or African etc migrants and say "I'm first generation", " I came over 40 years ago", "My parents came over when they were kids"

this idea of 'static bloodlines in a geographic location' is barbaric and uncivilized in a world post colonial era

Do you not know that my Parents came to Australia when I was 10 years old? I joined The Australian Regiment when I was 18. I was SENT to Vietnam when I was 19. I did 3 tours fighting the VC when you were still in nappies. You don't know what life is son.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

if they dont represent islam why are the bodies handed back for an islamic funeral?

Tommy Monk wrote:





Which is the fundamental flaw in multiculturalism... the more mass immigration goes on, the more it creates increasingly wider and deeper multicultural divisions between all the vast numbers of different foreign cultures within our country...

None of these foreign cultures are British... and none of the people here who insist on behaving in the way of a foreign culture will ever be able to feel British either...

And trying to shoe horn all these foreign cultures into being 'neo British' is an affront to British people and our culture/identity etc...

You said 'all cultures matter'... and we should all have the right to uphold our culture etc...

I kind of beg to differ. I think you can embrace other cultures and even be a part of it if you want to without 'losing' your own identity. It's about personal choice. When I was a dancer I did this. I got know all about the Arab culture of dance and music, and performed at Arab weddings and social functions and was often mistaken for an Egyptian because, in the words of one Arab woman, I danced with 'no accent'. I learned Tunisian, Moroccan, Egyptian and Bedouin dances. I learned the history of each region with regards to the dance and music, and also the costuming. I also learned Polynesian Dance.

Not once in all my years of taking their dance and making it my own, did any Middle Eastern person ever say...'You have no right learning/performing/teaching our dance' or 'I find it offensive you are wearing our traditional garb and you're not an Arab/Muslim'. They loved that I was doing it, and doing it well.

veya_victaous wrote:the issue is that some brits like tommy want all or nothing not realizing that if you at just made a list of half ideals that define British culture people can be British and whatever else.
But to expect everyone to have tea and scones in the afternoon and be pissed as a twat falling through doors of a curry house by midnight is not going to work.

for aussies the easiest is Beaches and barbeques, all the other cultures have embraced the day at the beach and the barbequed feast even if the Chinese have red pork and sweet sausages and the Muslims have Lamb rack and kofta.
although there is lots of little things and each group finds it can embrace somethings. thus we are a successful Multicultural society because we all value the freedom that is inherent in only needing to comply to stereotype a little bit.
We don't expect the new migrants to be exactly like the people already here, just a few basic ideals.

Also a big part is Aussie telling migrants that have become citizens or children born here that 'They are Aussie' , we say sure you're "a 'whatever' Aussie" or and "Aussie of 'whatever' decent" but still Aussie.

Of course the post ww2 migration from Europe to Australia helps since so many Whites turn around to Asian, Middle eastern or African etc migrants and say "I'm first generation", " I came over 40 years ago", "My parents came over when they were kids"

this idea of 'static bloodlines in a geographic location' is barbaric and uncivilized in a world post colonial era

That's a bit like believing all Aussies have hats with corks dangling from them....

They don't????

nicko wrote:They don't????

Fucksocks!

nicko wrote:Do you not know that my Parents came to Australia when I was 10 years old?  I joined The Australian Regiment when I was 18.  I was SENT to Vietnam when I was 19.  I did 3 tours fighting the VC when you were still in nappies.   You don't know what life is son.

i wasn't born till '83 old fart

And I mean what a disgrace We let a smelly English family escape poverty and welcomed them into our community, Oh wait that is how you fell about welcoming other into your community
Cause i guess the irony will be lost on you, that means YOU have even less reason to oppose immigration for economic reason since YOUR family took advantage of other offering you such

I at least acknowledge my father came here a similar time you did and as such can not morally oppose others taking the same advantage or fail to offer others the same consideration

You need to get out in the real world son, it don't revolve around you.

nicko wrote:You need to get out in the real world son, it don't revolve around you.

You need to step into the modern world and see it has moved passed you.

and it is you that seem to act like still revolves around the idiot cowardly decisions that lead to your invasion of a free nation

HoratioTarr wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the issue is that some brits like tommy want all or nothing not realizing that if you at just made a list of half ideals that define British culture people can be British and whatever else.
But to expect everyone to have tea and scones in the afternoon and be pissed as a twat falling through doors of a curry house by midnight is not going to work.

for aussies the easiest is Beaches and barbeques, all the other cultures have embraced the day at the beach and the barbequed feast even if the Chinese have red pork and sweet sausages and the Muslims have Lamb rack and kofta.
although there is lots of little things and each group finds it can embrace somethings. thus we are a successful Multicultural society because we all value the freedom that is inherent in only needing to comply to stereotype a little bit.
We don't expect the new migrants to be exactly like the people already here, just a few basic ideals.

Also a big part is Aussie telling migrants that have become citizens or children born here that 'They are Aussie' , we say sure you're "a 'whatever' Aussie" or and "Aussie of 'whatever' decent" but still Aussie.

Of course the post ww2 migration from Europe to Australia helps since so many Whites turn around to Asian, Middle eastern or African etc migrants and say "I'm first generation", " I came over 40 years ago", "My parents came over when they were kids"

this idea of 'static bloodlines in a geographic location' is barbaric and uncivilized in a world post colonial era

That's a bit like believing all Aussies have hats with corks dangling from them....

They did until we Invited and embraced all those that come from overseas.
By not merely tolerating immigrants we have evolved

veya_victaous wrote:

nicko wrote:Do you not know that my Parents came to Australia when I was 10 years old?  I joined The Australian Regiment when I was 18.  I was SENT to Vietnam when I was 19.  I did 3 tours fighting the VC when you were still in nappies.   You don't know what life is son.

i wasn't born till '83 old fart

And I mean what a disgrace We let a smelly English family escape poverty and welcomed them into our community, Oh wait that is how you fell about welcoming other into your community
Cause i guess the irony will be lost on you, that means YOU have even less reason to oppose immigration for economic reason since YOUR family took advantage of other offering you such

I at least acknowledge my father came here a similar time you did and as such can not morally oppose others taking the same advantage or fail to offer others the same consideration

Bigotry
Ageist
Xenophobic
Insulting Nicko's family

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

That's a bit like believing all Aussies have hats with corks dangling from them....

They did until we Invited and embraced all those that come from overseas.
By not merely tolerating immigrants we have evolved

Did you embrace this?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLTnZvrn0g

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators as Manchester reels from the worst terror attack to hit the UK in over a decade.

The 22-year-old was remembered as a “fun guy” who drank, took drugs and possibly had links with local gangs before appearing increasingly religious as his radicalisation deepened.

The same transformation has been documented in many of Europe’s deadliest terrorists, including petty criminals and drug dealers in the Isis “super cell” behind the Paris and Brussels attacks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html

These terrorists dont seem religiously motivated.

they attend mosques, they quote the koran and they end up having Muslim funerals, I am pretty sure we can say they are Muslims.

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

That's a bit like believing all Aussies have hats with corks dangling from them....

They did until we Invited and embraced all those that come from overseas.
By not merely tolerating immigrants we have evolved

even the one that murdered the policeman and holed up in a cafe?

Raggamuffin wrote:Hi Tommy - good to see you!

I wonder if all this multiculturalism is just making people feel confused. There's been a lot of talk about our "way of life", and how the Jihadists want to wreck it. Perhaps that's true, but what is our way of life? I think that depends on what your own particular lifestyle consists of, and your job, etc. It seems to me that the way of life here consists largely of the pursuit of material things and having a good time. Maybe to the Jihadists it's too self-indulgent and they want to spoil it for others? Because of their "heritage", they think about the way of life for other Muslims in other countries, and it pisses them off that people here appear to be cosseted and spoilt in comparison? Perhaps that's why an event where people have fun was targeted?

I am confused. Multiculturalism to me means people from different cultures coming to another country and assimilating into that country.
what appears to actually happen is people come from other country's and then form ghettos where they end up having little interaction with the host nation and then bit by bit demanding that the host nation bends to their will.

anyone is welcome to point out where that analysis is actually wrong in the real world.

america used to be a melting pot of cultures.People would emigrate there and become american first, not try to change america to their lifestyle. It seems that golden age is long gone.

"We let a smelly English family into our country" if I could come face with you, you racist geranium, i'd punch your fucking lights out you ignorant bastard !

And why did no "moderators" pull him up over that disgusting statement?
Come on Ben, surely that demands a strong word from you?

Dino wrote:america used to be a melting pot of cultures.People would emigrate there and become american first, not try to change america to their lifestyle. It seems that golden age is long gone.

Wrong. They did the same in America. The first generation always settled in New York City...why do you think NYC has so many ethnic enclaves? It was the second or third generation that moved out into the heartland and 'melted' into the population.

Except, of course, those that were not permitted to blend in by racism and ethnicity: blacks (naturally), Hispanics, to some extent Asians, and lately, Muslims. This proves that racism and ethnocentricity constitute a problem with the dominant culture, not with those affected.

Original Quill wrote:

Dino wrote:america used to be a melting pot of cultures.People would emigrate there and become american first, not try to change america to their lifestyle. It seems that golden age is long gone.

Wrong.  They did the same in America.  The first generation always settled in New York City...why do you think NYC has so many ethnic enclaves?  It was the second or third generation that moved out into the heartland and 'melted' into the population.

Except, of course, those that were not permitted to blend in by racism and ethnicity: blacks (naturally), Hispanics, to some extent Asians, and lately, Muslims.  This proves that racism and ethnocentricity constitute a problem with the dominant culture, not with those affected.

until recently immigrants would see themselves as american. italian american, irish american, but american non the less.

veya_victaous wrote:So too ignore tommy but touch in HT's posts

The issues is they are only 'Tolerated'
Never embraced
It is actually the British German comedian that appears on shows like "Would i lie to you" that has a bit in one of his acts that points it out the best.

"Tolerated"
You tolerate things you hate....

I believe it is this tolerance but never embracing the migrant that causes many if Britain's issues.

And Britain Started the Cultural hegemony that caused thousands of cultures to wiped out and replaced By 'British Culture' thus it is unfair to complain now that the evolved new world culture of 'multiculturalism' is taking over you, just as Brits once argued a stronger culture now the new world can argue the same in return... the death of many of the little bits of British culture are only natural evolution.

I understand why you despise culture coming from a country that doesn't have any.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Wrong.  They did the same in America.  The first generation always settled in New York City...why do you think NYC has so many ethnic enclaves?  It was the second or third generation that moved out into the heartland and 'melted' into the population.

Except, of course, those that were not permitted to blend in by racism and ethnicity: blacks (naturally), Hispanics, to some extent Asians, and lately, Muslims.  This proves that racism and ethnocentricity constitute a problem with the dominant culture, not with those affected.

until recently immigrants would see themselves as american. italian american, irish american, but american non the less.

All according to the progression.  They came in waves:

First Wave
1790 - 1820: English, Scots, Scots-Irish, Germans (migrated to Pennsylvania for religious freedom), Dutch, French, Spanish (migrated to Florida and southwest for Christian converts), Puritans (migrated to Massachusetts to establish a community restricted to members of their faith);

Second Wave
1820 - 1860: German (escaping economic problems and seeking political freedom), British, Irish (poverty and famine encouraged emigration);

Third Wave
1880 - 1914: Continued Irish and Italians on the east coast; Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian countries, migrated to the western states;

Fourth Wave
1965 - Present: Europeans due to political conditions post-WWII, Asians, Hispanics (Mexico).

What has happened recently?  Those are the immigrants who didn't look like Europeans.  

Blacks were among the earliest (involuntary) immigrants, brought in as slaves, and continue to be outcasts through peonage, Jim Crow laws, separate-but-equal, segregation and the present voter suppression.

Hispanics, despite the Spanish aura, are Native Americans who were taught Spanish by Christian Missionaries.  Previously they moved about in their own lands, without hinderence.  Since the establishment of European style boundaries, they have become "illegals".

Asians have always come in via west coast ports, but they've had a recent influx due to wars in southeast Asia.

American racism has always been in the picture because of slavery.  But the same standards have been applied to other non-white and Asian cultures.

The melting pot thesis only works among Europeans.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

That's a bit like believing all Aussies have hats with corks dangling from them....

They did until we Invited and embraced all those that come from overseas.
By not merely tolerating immigrants we have evolved

even the one that murdered the policeman and holed up in a cafe?

yes 1 out of hundreds of thousands. we aren't foolish cowards that expect there to be no psychos

nicko wrote:"We let a smelly English family into our country"   if I could come face with you,  you racist geranium,  i'd punch your fucking lights out you ignorant bastard  !

well look at how a migrant would repay us just cause I called him smelly. I wonder what he would have done if Called all the god awful names under the sun that you have used against Muslims

veya_victaous wrote:

nicko wrote:"We let a smelly English family into our country"   if I could come face with you,  you racist geranium,  i'd punch your fucking lights out you ignorant bastard  !

well look at how a migrant would repay us  just cause I called him smelly. I wonder what he would have done if Called all the god awful names under the sun that you have used against Muslims

Really can you show me where Nicko has called non-criminal Muslims names because they are Muslims?

Or are you just inventing crap to justify your piss poor view of his family?

Show me the "god awful names I have used against Muslims, there are none you lying bastard ! You just trying to get out of the mistake you made disrespecting my family. Honestly, your the biggest racist on this forum, how you remain a moderator is a mystery to many on this forum.

Okay I've just looked at Veya's comment about the "smelly English family" and what he said afterwards with the eyerolls - and he was obviously being sarcastic/ironic.

Christ Eddie get off the fucking fence !!

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t20941-german-man-who-tied-a-noose-around-his-wife-s-neck-and-dragged-her-through-the-streets-tied-to-the-back-of-their-car-as-their-two-year-old-son-watched-is-jailed-for-14-years


Calling 1.4 billion people Most of them Barbarian
cause of one criminal
and thats just in the last few days

If you don't like me modding fuck off
I don't know why you joined and stayed if you don't like it go back to Flaps shit hole and stay there don't come back here pretty fucking simple
I was a mod before you joined Why should this forum change, why dont you just go away

veya_victaous wrote:http://www.newsfixboard.com/t20941-german-man-who-tied-a-noose-around-his-wife-s-neck-and-dragged-her-through-the-streets-tied-to-the-back-of-their-car-as-their-two-year-old-son-watched-is-jailed-for-14-years


Calling 1.4 billion people Most of them Barbarian
cause of one criminal
and thats just in the last few days

If you don't like me modding fuck off
I don't know why you joined and stayed if you don't like it go back to Flaps shit hole and stay there don't come back here pretty fucking simple
I was a mod before you joined Why should this forum change, why dont you just go away

I am going no where darling

Since when am i nicko and still does not excuse your vile views about his family.