More evidence that nazism was left wing

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Not quite... while nationalist it was still class based too... and don't forget that the communist weren't too keen on Jews either...

How was it class based? All Germans were equal, but there were conditions to being "German".

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs is obviously more intelligent and open minded than you and a couple of other posters here Didge...!!!

And she has clearly been investigating the topic and points raised in a thorough and conclusive manner with an independent and objective mind and giving consideration with a rational and logical thought process...

And only then has she formulated/started to formiulate her opinion!

The signs of a great analytical mind...!

Tommy Monk wrote:This debate doesn't need you Didge... in fact... you are superfluous to the debate...!!!

Angry Andy wrote:Nazis defending Nazis.
Who would have guessed?

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Sounds pretty much like communism...

But how nazism/fascism was different was that it left ownership of many businesses in private hands while strictly controlling them all and the means of production.

Oh dear lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Oh dear lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

That is just comparing far left communism to mild left socialism... still all of the left...!

Fail!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:No... it is saying that socialism is to the right of far left communism...

Not that it is 'right wing'...!!!

Oh dear...!

Angry Andy wrote:Given Tommy's obsession with promoting and defending the Nazis, it does beg the question of his upbringing. My parents HATED the nazis , my mother was a gunnery sargeant in charge of an ack-ack battery at Crystal Palace. Seldom talked about her fearful war stories, but admitted she did shoot down a number of hun.
When Tom compares the Communists and far left Corbynites against the Nazis and BNP, he clearly favours the latter 2.
My loathing of the far fight and Nazis stemmed from them.
Given Toms predelicition for posting endless thread glorifying and justifying them, I question from whom did he acquire his admiration and adulation of them?

Angry Andy wrote:I wonder if my mum fired at his relatives?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

How was it class based? All Germans were equal, but there were conditions to being "German".

I mean in the way that it sought to equalise... by focusing on the classes and trying to level them out...

But just like the communist regime... those in charge technically became the new upper class, above the rest of the people...

The difference was thar the communists tried to have complete state ownership and control while the nazis/fascists left many businesses in private ownership but still completely controlled them and all the means of production.

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs is obviously more intelligent and open minded than you and a couple of other posters here Didge...!!!

And she has clearly been investigating the topic and points raised in a thorough and conclusive manner with an independent and objective mind and giving consideration with a rational and logical thought process...

And only then has she formulated/started to formiulate her opinion!

The signs of a great analytical mind...!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

I mean in the way that it sought to equalise... by focusing on the classes and trying to level them out...

But just like the communist regime... those in charge technically became the new upper class, above the rest of the people...

The difference was thar the communists tried to have complete state ownership and control while the nazis/fascists left many businesses in private ownership but still completely controlled them and all the means of production.

I see what you mean. Yes, there wasn't a class struggle in the way there was in Communism. Nazi socialism was based on ethnicity - it was a case of looking after "their own". However, there were similarities, as you say.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs is obviously more intelligent and open minded than you and a couple of other posters here Didge...!!!

And she has clearly been investigating the topic and points raised in a thorough and conclusive manner with an independent and objective mind and giving consideration with a rational and logical thought process...

And only then has she formulated/started to formiulate her opinion!

The signs of a great analytical mind...!

Thank you Tommy. I think it's important for people to think for themselves and not just accept the usual viewpoint, and you do think for yourself.

Tommy Monk wrote:This debate doesn't need you Didge... in fact... you are superfluous to the debate...!!!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:This debate doesn't need you Didge... in fact... you are superfluous to the debate...!!!

Exactly. If he wants to ignore my posts I'm happy about that, but he keeps butting in.

Angry Andy wrote:Given Tommy's obsession with promoting and defending the Nazis, it does beg the question of his upbringing. My parents HATED the nazis , my mother was a gunnery sargeant in charge of an ack-ack battery at Crystal Palace. Seldom talked about her fearful war stories, but admitted she did shoot down a number of hun.
When Tom compares the Communists and far left Corbynites against the Nazis and BNP, he clearly favours the latter 2.
My loathing of the far fight and Nazis stemmed from them.
Given Toms predelicition for posting endless thread glorifying and justifying them, I question from whom did he acquire his admiration and adulation of them?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:Given Tommy's obsession with promoting and defending the Nazis, it does beg the question of his upbringing. My parents HATED the nazis , my mother was a gunnery sargeant in charge of an ack-ack battery at Crystal Palace. Seldom talked about her fearful war stories, but admitted she did shoot down a number of hun.
When Tom compares the Communists and far left Corbynites against the Nazis and BNP, he clearly favours the latter 2.
My loathing of the far fight and Nazis stemmed from them.
Given Toms predelicition for posting endless thread glorifying and justifying them, I question from whom did he acquire his admiration and adulation of them?

How is Tommy promoting and defending Nazis? Saying they were left wing isn't promoting them or defending them.

Thorin wrote:Right, so lets have the evidence for when the Nazi's were in power, as both Rags and Tommy claim, that they were left wing.

Not quotes, but actual policies in practice that can only be defined exclusively as left wing

To then compare them to the many Far Right policies they made.

Lets see what they actually know about history.

Tommy Monk wrote:It's not a fact at all Didge... it is a misconception...!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

I mean in the way that it sought to equalise... by focusing on the classes and trying to level them out...

But just like the communist regime... those in charge technically became the new upper class, above the rest of the people...

The difference was thar the communists tried to have complete state ownership and control while the nazis/fascists left many businesses in private ownership but still completely controlled them and all the means of production.

I see what you mean. Yes, there wasn't a class struggle in the way there was in Communism. Nazi socialism was based on ethnicity - it was a case of looking after "their own". However, there were similarities, as you say.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I see what you mean. Yes, there wasn't a class struggle in the way there was in Communism. Nazi socialism was based on ethnicity - it was a case of looking after "their own". However, there were similarities, as you say.

And in the context of post ww1, it is easy to see the peoples strong desire for heavy socialism and for it being focused directly on reviving/reinvigorating/restoring for the german people to how they were prior to ww1... and so therefore easy to understand the nationalist basis!!!

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:No... it is saying that socialism is to the right of far left communism...

Not that it is 'right wing'...!!!

Oh dear...!

Except as seen there is right wing socialism and is so far right of left wing politics that it becomes Nazism

Something the ignorant fuckwit had no idea of.

Oh dear indeed

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Except as seen there is right wing socialism and is so far right of left wing politics that it becomes Nazism

Something the ignorant fuckwit had no idea of.

Oh dear indeed

From the link...


"...The term is used, more commonly but distinctly, to refer to moderate, social democratic forms of socialism when contrasted with Marxism–Leninism and other more radical left-wing alternatives..."


Oh dear!!!

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


And in the context of post ww1, it is easy to see the peoples strong desire for heavy socialism and for it being focused directly on reviving/reinvigorating/restoring for the german people to how they were prior to ww1... and so therefore easy to understand the nationalist basis!!!

OMG

Yes there was strong desires for this and then Hitler came to power and then what happened Tommy?

Take your time?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:

OMG

Yes there was strong desires for this and then Hitler came to power and then what happened Tommy?

Take your time?

Far left nationalist socialism happened...

Thorin wrote:Of course the above can be no where found in this link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:Of course the above can be no where found in this link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

I quoted from the link...

Tommy Monk wrote:Andy is an idiot... clearly!!!

He thinks that by correctly defining the far left aspect of Nazism/fascism and by explaining that it was rooted in socialism, means that I am supportive of it!!!


What a twat!!!

Thorin wrote:Of course the above can be no where found in this link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thorin wrote:Of course the above can be no where found in this link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism

The start of the 2nd paragraph...


"...The term is [also] used, more commonly but distinctly, to refer to moderate, social democratic forms of socialism when contrasted with Marxism–Leninism and other more radical left-wing alternatives..."

Tommy Monk wrote:"The term is [also] used, more commonly but distinctly, to refer to moderate, social democratic forms of socialism when contrasted with Marxism–Leninism and other more radical left-wing alternatives."


Oh dear...!!!

Nonsense is nonsense

Brief Debunkers

• Hitler, Nazis, Socialism, and Rightwing Propaganda
  
  

The basis of the conflation of nazism and socialism is the term "National Socialism," a self description of the Nazis.  "National Socialism" includes the word "socialism", but it is just a word.  Hitler and the Nazis outlawed socialism, and executed socialists and communists en masse, even before they started rounding up Jews.  In 1933, the Dachau concentration camp held socialists and leftists exclusively. The Nazis arrested more than 11,000 Germans for "illegal socialist activity" in 1936.

• Debunking GOP lies
  
  

The GOP uses deception and fears to try to break the president and his agenda for change. Ultra-right broadcasters even lie about our World War II enemy. Their claims about health care, big business and "socialism" in Nazi Germany are not only untrue, but vicious and ignorant

• The ‘Socialists Are Communists’ Myth
  
  

The Myth 1 — The Nazis were National Socialists and therefore Nazism is a form of socialism. The left-wing parties like Labour and the Greens are therefore similar to the Nazis politically.
The Truth 1 — Nope: a common mistake propagated by people who think that a name means what it says. Take the Democratic Republic of Congo, the German Democratic Republic or the Peoples’ Democratic Republic of Korea (North Korea). Any takers for claiming them as being democracies?

Extended Debunkers

• Myth: Hitler was a Leftist—by Steve Kangas
  
  

To most people, Hitler's beliefs belong to the extreme far right. For example, most conservatives believe in patriotism and a strong military; carry these beliefs far enough, and you arrive at Hitler's warring nationalism. This association has long been something of an embarrassment to the far right. To deflect such criticism, conservatives have recently launched a counter-attack, claiming that Hitler was a socialist, and therefore belongs to the political left, not the right.
The primary basis for this claim is that Hitler was a National Socialist. The word "National" evokes the state, and the word "Socialist" openly identifies itself as such.
However, there is no academic controversy over the status of this term: it was a misnomer. Misnomers are quite common in the history of political labels

• [url=http://www.splcenter.org/search/apachesolr_search/nazis were socialists myth germany]Readings on American Nazism from Southern Poverty Law Center[/url]
  
  

SPLC has some great articles in their archive that reveal just how many of the more vicious and ignorant Nazi myths have been morphed and migrated into American extremist's culture. Often with the tacit approval of many mainstream conservatives and Republicans.

The money shot

Yes, how often did they not turn up in huge numbers, those supporters of the Red Flag, all previously instructed to smash up everything once and for all and put an end to these meetings. More often than not everything hung on a mere thread, and only the chairman’s ruthless determination and the rough handling by our ushers baffled our adversaries’ intentions. And indeed they had every reason for being irritated.
The fact that we had chosen red as the colour for our posters sufficed to attract them to our meetings. The ordinary bourgeoisie were very shocked to see that, we had also chosen the symbolic red of Bolshevism and they regarded this as something ambiguously significant.
The suspicion was whispered in German Nationalist circles that we also were merely another variety of Marxism, perhaps even Marxists suitably disguised, or better still, Socialists. The actual difference between Socialism and Marxism still remains a mystery to these people up to this day. The charge of Marxism was conclusively proved when it was discovered that at our meetings we deliberately substituted the words ‘Fellow-countrymen and Women’ for ‘Ladies and Gentlemen’ and addressed each other as ‘Party Comrade’. We used to roar with laughter at these silly faint-hearted bourgeoisie and their efforts to puzzle out our origin, our intentions and our aims.
We chose red for our posters after particular and careful deliberation, our intention being to irritate the Left, so as to arouse their attention and tempt them to come to our meetings – if only in order to break them up – so that in this way we got a chance of talking to the people.