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Ian Huntley and the Soham murders - was he framed?

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Post by eddie on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here's the background to the case - two friends murdered by the school caretaker in his house and the girlfriend who gave him an alibi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soham_murders

oham murders
Jessica Chapman
Holly Wells
Born Jessica Aimee Chapman
Holly Marie Wells
1 September 1991 (Chapman)
4 October 1991 (Wells)
Soham, Cambridgeshire, England
Died Both c. 4 August 2002 (aged 10)
Soham, Cambridgeshire, England
Body discovered Lakenheath, Suffolk, England
Parent(s) Leslie and Sharon Chapman
Kevin and Nicola Wells
The Soham murders occurred in Soham, Cambridgeshire, England, on 4 August 2002. The victims were two 10-year-old girls, Holly Marie Wells and Jessica Aimee Chapman. Their bodies were found near RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, on 17 August 2002, by a local farm worker.

Ian Kevin Huntley, a caretaker at local secondary school Soham Village College, was convicted on 17 December 2003 of the girls' murder and sentenced to two terms of life imprisonment, with the High Court later setting a minimum term of 40 years.

His girlfriend, Maxine Ann Carr, was the girls' teaching assistant at St Andrew's Primary School. Carr had provided Huntley with a false alibi and received a three-and-a-half year prison sentence for perverting the course of justice.


Hoping Tommy can post what he has read up on regarding the question of whether Huntley was framed.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Raggs... look up the timeline of last known sightings... they were seen multiple times heading to other end of sand Street and this was going away from their house and away from Huntly's house...



Yes, but we know they did go to Huntley's house. What we don't know is when. They could have gone all over the place before they ended up at his house. They could have gone to the village centre and then gone to his house. All we know is that they were at the sports centre at some point - at around 6.13 if the time on the CCTV was correct.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:57 pm



The girls house is very near Huntleys house... the girls were at their house... they were using the computer on the internet on a chat room for about 20-30 minutes until around 5.30pm... they were then seen by multiple people in village, heading away from their house and away from Huntley house... to when they were last seen at the other end of sand Street...



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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:00 pm




5.11pm - 5.35pm: The computer at Holly's house is in use, almost certainly by the girls.

5.45pm: Ian Huntley, the caretaker of a local school and who knows the girls, speaks to them as they pass his house. "They were as happy as Larry ... They didn't have a care in the world," he said.

6.15pm: Another reported sighting puts them in the lower end of the High Street near a Rover garage.

6.17pm: CCTV footage shows the girls crossing the car park of the Ross Peers sports centre in Soham. They did not have their parents' permission to go back to the centre.

6.30pm: Four more reported sightings put the girls in the High Street walking towards the centre of Soham.

6.45pm: Four more reported sightings, this time near the town's war memorial.

7pm: An unconfirmed sighting at the southern edge of Soham, near a roundabout and a Q8 filling station.

6.01pm / 7pm: A taxi driver heading south from the roundabout near the filling station, along the A142 towards Newmarket, apparently sees the motorist in front struggling with two children and swerving across the road. The metallic green saloon car is speeding and being driven "erratically", with a child in the front passenger seat and another - with light brown hair similar to Jessica's - in the back. The motorist is white, of Mediterranean appearance or suntanned, aged between 38 and 45 and has black, wiry hair. He drives all the way to the outskirts of Newmarket.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/aug/17/childprotection.children4

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:01 pm

http://aangirfan.blogspot.fr/2012/10/who-killed-holly-and-jessica.html

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

The girls house is very near Huntleys house... the girls were at their house... they were using the computer on the internet on a chat room for about 20-30 minutes until around 5.30pm... they were then seen by multiple people in village, heading away from their house and away from Huntley house... to when they were last seen at the other end of sand Street...



They were at Holly's house in Redhouse Gardens. It's not that near Huntley's house. Take a look at a map. They would have walked up Sand Street from Holly's house. There are various reports re what time they left Holly's house. One even says 6.15, but that's not possible if they were at the sports centre at 6.13.

The sighting at the southern end of Sand Street is a bit vague really, and there's no time mentioned.

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Post by Syl on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:15 pm

So the fact he had a list as long as your arm of sexual offences including 2 rapes....he signed a confession in prison that he did rape the 15 year old..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-450015/Im-paedophile-Huntley-finally-confesses.html

and also admitted on tape in 2006 that he did murder the two schoolgirls... 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1546975/Huntley-revealed-all-in-taped-confession.html

makes no difference to your conspiracy theory Tommy. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:17 pm

The timelines are all over the place. CCTV footage shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, not 6.17, and then there are reports that they were there at 6.28 as well. There's no really reliable timeline of where they were and when they were seen.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:21 pm

Syl wrote:So the fact he had a list as long as your arm of sexual offences including 2 rapes....he signed a confession in prison that he did rape the 15 year old..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-450015/Im-paedophile-Huntley-finally-confesses.html

and also admitted on tape in 2006 that he did murder the two schoolgirls... 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1546975/Huntley-revealed-all-in-taped-confession.html

makes no difference to your conspiracy theory Tommy. Rolling Eyes

I thought that Maxine Carr didn't get the teaching job she'd been doing, so how could she lose her job?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:24 pm

It's also frequently said that Huntley worked at the girls' school, but I thought he worked at the village college, which is a different school.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:The timelines are all over the place. CCTV footage shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, not 6.17, and then there are reports that they were there at 6.28 as well. There's no really reliable timeline of where they were and when they were seen.


All the media reports in days after they went missing said sightings were of them heading to other end of sand Street... last seen around an hour after they supposedly went past Huntleys.


But just looked at this report of pictures cctv...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2180853.stm


Time at top left is different from that in bottom left of pictures...


Some other things look strange about these pics too...

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Post by Andy on Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:06 pm

Some things look strange.
They are shit quality ctv cameras.
That is why they look strange.
Huntley killed the girls.
He lusted over young girls , and they were a perfect match for his desires.
Pretty , developing boobs and possibly even recognised him so would have been intially compliant.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:15 pm

Here is another early timeline of sightings...

5.00pm: Jessica was seen and spoken to by Emma Goldsack in the fish and chip shop in the High Street, Soham.

5.04pm: Last picture of Holly and Jessica taken by Holly's mum at their home.

5.11-5.35pm: Girls used Holly's computer.

6.10pm: Unconfirmed sighting of two girls in red shirts between St Andrews School and the Rover garage in Sand Street, Soham. Ian Huntley, caretaker of Soham College, saw and spoke to both girls.

6.13pm: CCTV footage of Holly and Jessica walking across the car park of the Ross Peers sports centre.

6.30pm: Four people see girls walking from Sand Street into the High Street. Around the same time unconfirmed sighting of them in the sports centre's gym.

6.45pm: Four people see girls walking towards the town's war memorial.

7.00pm: Unconfirmed sighting of Holly and Jessica at the Q8 garage on the Downfield roundabout in the south of the town.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:26 pm

Although this eve standard article reporting trial tells a totally different story...


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/last-hours-of-holly-and-jessica-6950277.html

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:40 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1403877/Timetable.html


Again this says same as other early reports of sightings...


It also says last photo of them was with them both wearing dark trousers...

Although last photo shows them both in shorts...



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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:45 pm

And this was allegedly the last photo...


Ian Huntley and the Soham murders - was he framed? - Page 2 Maxresdefault


Something don't look right here either...

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:43 am

Handy Andy wrote:Some things look strange.
They are shit quality ctv cameras.
That is why they look strange.
Huntley killed the girls.
He lusted over young girls , and they were  a perfect match for his desires.
Pretty , developing boobs and possibly even recognised him so would have been intially compliant.


Look at the car to the right of the main 4 cars in each of the pics...


See anything strange going on...?


And not just with the car but look at how the surrounding pavement and yellow section change shape too...!


All so different from a fixed position cctv camera...?



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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:14 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:The timelines are all over the place. CCTV footage shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, not 6.17, and then there are reports that they were there at 6.28 as well. There's no really reliable timeline of where they were and when they were seen.


All the media reports in days after they went missing said sightings were of them heading to other end of sand Street... last seen around an hour after they supposedly went past Huntleys.


But just looked at this report of pictures cctv...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2180853.stm


Time at top left is different from that in bottom left of pictures...


Some other things look strange about these pics too...

I can't see the times in those pics but the comments about times don't seem to add up. What nobody seems to have asked though is where they were going. I've looked at a map of the area, and they appear to be heading across the sports centre car park for no apparent reason, or they're walking towards a hedge.

Staff say they went to the vending machine, but that seems to be later on - at 6.28?

Did they go to the sports centre just to go to the vending machine? Did they go there twice?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:17 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Here is another early timeline of sightings...

5.00pm: Jessica was seen and spoken to by Emma Goldsack in the fish and chip shop in the High Street, Soham.

5.04pm: Last picture of Holly and Jessica taken by Holly's mum at their home.

5.11-5.35pm: Girls used Holly's computer.

6.10pm: Unconfirmed sighting of two girls in red shirts between St Andrews School and the Rover garage in Sand Street, Soham. Ian Huntley, caretaker of Soham College, saw and spoke to both girls.

6.13pm: CCTV footage of Holly and Jessica walking across the car park of the Ross Peers sports centre.

6.30pm: Four people see girls walking from Sand Street into the High Street. Around the same time unconfirmed sighting of them in the sports centre's gym.

6.45pm: Four people see girls walking towards the town's war memorial.

7.00pm: Unconfirmed sighting of Holly and Jessica at the Q8 garage on the Downfield roundabout in the south of the town.

Jessica can't have been in the fish and chip shop at that time, and she'd just had a barbecue anyway!

I read that Huntley said he saw them at 5.45 or 5.50.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:30 am

Eddie has gone very quiet.

Eddie, you started this thread - what is your own theory?

I can't really understand the motive for the killings. The girls knew Maxine, not Huntley. They presumably went to the house to see her, but she wasn't there. Huntley either saw them outside and invited them in, or they knocked on the door and he invited them in. Are we to believe that as soon as he saw two young girls he was suddenly overcome with a desire to molest them both and then kill them to shut them up?

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Post by magica on Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Eddie has gone very quiet.

Eddie, you started this thread - what is your own theory?

I can't really understand the motive for the killings. The girls knew Maxine, not Huntley. They presumably went to the house to see her, but she wasn't there. Huntley either saw them outside and invited them in, or they knocked on the door and he invited them in. Are we to believe that as soon as he saw two young girls he was suddenly overcome with a desire to molest them both and then kill them to shut them up?




I don't get that either tbh. What made the girls go out in the first place? They were only 10 and not many girls of that age go out, and there were 2 of them. They went to his house looking for Maxine Carr, and then he raped and killed them. How did he overcome one and then the other without any of them screaming, unless he knocked them out.

I don't understand why Maxine Carr covered for him either, if he wasn't guilty. Its so bizarre.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:45 pm

magica wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Eddie has gone very quiet.

Eddie, you started this thread - what is your own theory?

I can't really understand the motive for the killings. The girls knew Maxine, not Huntley. They presumably went to the house to see her, but she wasn't there. Huntley either saw them outside and invited them in, or they knocked on the door and he invited them in. Are we to believe that as soon as he saw two young girls he was suddenly overcome with a desire to molest them both and then kill them to shut them up?




I don't get that either tbh.  What made the girls go out in the first place?  They were only 10 and not many girls of that age go out, and there were 2 of them. They went to his house looking for Maxine Carr, and then he raped and killed them.   How did he overcome one and then the other without any of them screaming, unless he knocked them out.

I don't understand why Maxine Carr covered for him either, if he wasn't guilty.  Its so bizarre.


I don't know why they were out, or why they didn't tell Holly's parents they were going out. I suppose children do tend to drift around together for no apparent reason. I do wonder if they knew where Maxine lived actually. I don't think they knew Huntley at all, so if they went to the house on purpose, I guess they must have known Maxine lived there. However, I don't know if they were just passing, or if they went there specifically to see her. I really don't understand why he would just get this idea to attack them so suddenly.

It's commonly said that Maxine gave him an alibi, but she didn't really do that as such, she just said she was there too. I guess she assumed that if she told the police she was there, they wouldn't suspect Huntley because they wouldn't think a woman would be involved. She didn't suspect him - she just believed that the police would.

I also don't understand the timelines reported in the press and in court. They just don't agree with each other or add up at all. If the girls were seen in College Road, they can't have been approaching Huntley's house from the sports centre, or they must have actually left Huntley's house as he claimed at the time.

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Post by Syl on Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:51 pm

Some of those were suspected sightings not confirmed sightings wasn't they?

Also, Carr certainly did give him an alibi, she was away from home and had no idea where he was or who he was with.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:06 pm

Syl wrote:Some of those were suspected sightings not confirmed sightings wasn't they?

Also, Carr certainly did give him an alibi, she was away from home and had no idea where he was or who he was with.

I wouldn't call it an alibi. An alibi would be if she claimed he was somewhere else at the time.

It was claimed that the girls were seen in College Road, but that they doubled back and went to Huntley's house. I don't see why they would do that. The CCTV shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, but the reports say they were there at 6.28. Were they also there twice?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/jury-traces-last-steps-of-jessica-and-holly-1-2532320


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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:08 pm

I recall that Huntley and Maxine made statements to the police the day before they were arrested. Did they go there voluntarily? If so, to say what? Nothing had been found at that time, and the bodies were not found until the next day.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And this was allegedly the last photo...


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uIPe_MJegrI/maxresdefault.jpg


Something don't look right here either...


This pic don't look right at all...

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:13 pm

If you look closely at those pics of car park in the link I posted... there are two different times showing... ons in top left corner and one bottom left...


One time says 13 mins past other says 28...

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:If you look closely at those pics of car park in the link I posted... there are two different times showing... ons in top left corner and one bottom left...


One time says 13 mins past other says 28...

Well the reports kept on about it being 6.28, and some say 6.17 but in the CCTV I've seen, it clearly says 6.13. Also, where were they going? I think I identified from a map where they were, but they appear to be heading for a hedge.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:17 pm

I also don't get why he put their clothes in a building on the site where he worked. He tried to set fire to them but failed? The police could have found those clothes straightaway if they had searched. Why would he put them in a place which would incriminate him?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:33 pm

Look at these pictures...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2180853.stm


Two times showing... look closely at top left and bottom left...



Also look at the car to the right of the main 4 in centre.of shots... it changes shape and so does the surrounding bits of pavement and yellow bit...


The pictures look altered... and so does thd one I posted up supposedly of last picture of girls that day at 5.05pm...



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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Look at these pictures...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2180853.stm


Two times showing... look closely at top left and bottom left...



Also look at the car to the right of the main 4 in centre.of shots... it changes shape and so does the surrounding bits of pavement and yellow bit...


The pictures look altered... and so does thd one I posted up supposedly of last picture of girls that day at 5.05pm...



It's hard to see the time at the top left, but why would CCTV show two different times on the same shot?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:48 pm

Adjust the brightness of screen and you might be able to see if more clearly...


And look at the differences of car over on the right by yellow bit

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Post by Syl on Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:Some of those were suspected sightings not confirmed sightings wasn't they?

Also, Carr certainly did give him an alibi, she was away from home and had no idea where he was or who he was with.

I wouldn't call it an alibi. An alibi would be if she claimed he was somewhere else at the time.

It was claimed that the girls were seen in College Road, but that they doubled back and went to Huntley's house. I don't see why they would do that. The CCTV shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, but the reports say they were there at 6.28. Were they also there twice?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/jury-traces-last-steps-of-jessica-and-holly-1-2532320

The jury believed her when she said she had covered up for him because she believed he was innocent,
She was found guilty of 'conspiring to pervert the course of justice'.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:00 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wouldn't call it an alibi. An alibi would be if she claimed he was somewhere else at the time.

It was claimed that the girls were seen in College Road, but that they doubled back and went to Huntley's house. I don't see why they would do that. The CCTV shows them at the sports centre at 6.13, but the reports say they were there at 6.28. Were they also there twice?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/jury-traces-last-steps-of-jessica-and-holly-1-2532320

The jury believed her when she said she had covered up for him because she believed he was innocent,
She was found guilty of 'conspiring  to pervert the course of justice'.

Yes, I already know that Syl. That's the whole point. Ian Huntley and the Soham murders - was he framed? - Page 2 2190311264

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Post by Syl on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

The jury believed her when she said she had covered up for him because she believed he was innocent,
She was found guilty of 'conspiring  to pervert the course of justice'.

Yes, I already know that Syl. That's the whole point. Ian Huntley and the Soham murders - was he framed? - Page 2 2190311264

I haven't read every post. tongue

I thought the whole point was that  Tommy was trying to prove to himself Huntley was innocent.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:12 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I already know that Syl. That's the whole point. Ian Huntley and the Soham murders - was he framed? - Page 2 2190311264

I haven't read every post. tongue

I thought the whole point was that  Tommy was trying to prove to himself  Huntley was innocent.

Mags said she didn't know why Maxine covered for him, and that's what I was addressing.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:17 pm

If they left the sports centre at about 6.30 and were seen in College Close just after that, and Huntley is guilty, they certainly couldn't have been seen at the war memorial or anywhere else later unless they went to Huntley's house twice, and that's not very likely.

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Post by magica on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:42 pm

I also don't get why he didn't burn the tops with the bodies. Why put them where they would be found near him aswell.

Mind you we don't know what goes through a paedophile and murderers mind, as we don't think like them.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:52 pm


6.30pm: Four more reported sightings put the girls in the High Street walking towards the centre of Soham.

6.45pm: Four more reported sightings, this time near the town's war memorial.

7pm: An unconfirmed sighting at the southern edge of Soham, near a roundabout




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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
6.30pm: Four more reported sightings put the girls in the High Street walking towards the centre of Soham.

6.45pm: Four more reported sightings, this time near the town's war memorial.

7pm: An unconfirmed sighting at the southern edge of Soham, near a roundabout




How could anyone have seen them at 6.45 if they went to Huntley's house at around 6.32 or so? The problem is that the reports differ quite a lot. There was also a report that Jessica's phone was switched off at 6.46.

Huntley of course has admitted a lot of things, so do you think there was some kind of false memory thing going on?


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Post by eddie on Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Eddie has gone very quiet.

Eddie, you started this thread - what is your own theory?

I can't really understand the motive for the killings. The girls knew Maxine, not Huntley. They presumably went to the house to see her, but she wasn't there. Huntley either saw them outside and invited them in, or they knocked on the door and he invited them in. Are we to believe that as soon as he saw two young girls he was suddenly overcome with a desire to molest them both and then kill them to shut them up?

I haven't been around much and it was Tommy's ideas and knowledge that made me start the thread (from another thread)

I haven't read through everything but I do remember thinking that if it wasn't Holly and Jessica in that green car that was spotted then who were the other two girls?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:26 pm

The phone was switched off at around that time and registered with a mobile phone mast further away than the one that covers soham...


Huntley had said all along that he saw them at around 5.45pm and was never in question when piecing together the girls known last movements by all the sightings...


Have a look at the alleged last photo at 5.04pm that I posted... look closely at it... Looks dodgy to me where the shirts meet where they are standing together as well as other anomalies...

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:32 pm

And this was allegedly the last photo...


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uIPe_MJegrI/maxresdefault.jpg




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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:27 am

The official report was that they didn't leave Holly's house until around 6.15 though.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:02 am

sightings place them at 6.45 in the centre of Soham. Finally, at 7.20, Margaret Willers, 43, spotted the girls walking on the High Street near Sergio's Italian restaurant. She knew them and mentioned it to her husband, Mick. What happened next is unknown. 'As we drove back 10 minutes later, I looked out for them. But they had gone,' Willers said.






The last sighting being treated as confirmed by police was at 7.20pm by a Soham woman Margaret Willers, who said she saw the 10-year-olds outside Sergio's Italian restaurant in the town's high street.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-133697/Missing-girls-School-caretaker-girlfriend-quizzed.html

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:36 am

Huntley, or his lawyer, admitted in court that the girls died in Huntley's house, so I guess there was no need for the jury to consider the evidence of the sightings. If he had not confessed, I wonder if they would still have convicted him.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:34 am

Huntley had been worked on in Rampton and by the time of trial was in a state of complete mental collapse... without his confused confession that was obviously bullshit, there was very little real evidence against him... his 'defence' team helped to get him convicted rather than helping to get him freed.



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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:37 am

Raggamuffin wrote:The official report was that they didn't leave Holly's house until around 6.15 though.

They don't know when they left the house because they sneaked out without permission and that was something they never did.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Look at these pictures...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2180853.stm


Two times showing... look closely at top left and bottom left...



Also look at the car to the right of the main 4 in centre.of shots... it changes shape and so does the surrounding bits of pavement and yellow bit...


The pictures look altered... and so does thd one I posted up supposedly of last picture of girls that day at 5.05pm...



It's hard to see the time at the top left, but why would CCTV show two different times on the same shot?


Why are there two sets of time and date?

One in top left and other in bottom left of pictures...?

And both showing different times...?


Only reason this can be is if they were two different cctv pictures from different cameras viewing different places and we're overlapped onto each other to make one mocked up picture...



Also I remember reading that the two girls bodies were badly decomposed and 'partially skeletonised'... they were only gone for 2 weeks... read somewhere that parts of the bodies had been eaten...

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:06 pm

Police reveal horror of bodies in ditch 01:00Saturday 24 August 2002

THE bodies of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman were found in a "severely decomposed and skeletonised" state at the bottom of a ditch in a remote area of woodland, the inquest into their deaths heard yesterday.

Details of the condition in which the girls’ bodies were found provided the first public explanation of why it had taken so long positively to identify the pair. The inquest heard that the ten-year-olds were almost certainly killed elsewhere before their bodies were taken to Suffolk and dumped in the ditch near RAF Lakenheath. The inquest took place amid growing concern over the vilification of murder suspect Ian Huntley, 28, and his girlfriend Maxine Carr, 25, who is in custody charged with perverting the course of justice. Earlier this week, an angry mob attacked the van carrying Carr to court and yesterday Huntley’s parents revealed they had been forced to leave their jobs and their home because of the strength of feeling whipped up against them. Lawyers have expressed fears that it could be difficult for Huntley - who has already been sacked from his job - and Carr to receive a fair trial because of the level of detail about their lives made public since they were arrested in the early hours of last Saturday morning. Martin Smith, a media specialist lawyer based in Glasgow, said: "I can’t see how they could ever have a fair trial. As a lawyer I would say it has got completely out of hand." Detective Chief Inspector Andy Hebb told David Morris, the Cambridgeshire coroner, he was as certain as he could be that the deaths of the two girls had not taken place at the spot where they were found. The coroner said his records showed that the bodies of Jessica and Holly were discovered at about 12:15pm on 17 August and they were certified dead two hours later by a Home Office pathologist, Dr Nat Cary. He said: "Dr Cary found on his arrival at the scene, in his words, the two severely decomposed and partially skeletonised bodies lying in the bottom of a ditch." Tissue samples from the bodies were taken for DNA analysis, which eventually provided a formal identification, although further tests and X-rays are being carried out. Mr Morris said he had spoken to Leslie and Sharon Chapman, the parents of Jessica, for a long period earlier in the day but Holly’s parents, Kevin and Nicola Wells, had not felt able to meet him. He said: "Today is a formal occasion and nothing gainsays the tremendous grief which I and my officers feel at the deaths of these two young ten-year-old children." Later, plans were announced for a memorial service for the girls at Ely Cathedral, with almost 2,000 people attending on a ticket-only basis, in accordance with the wishes of the two families. Funerals for the two best friends will be held separately and the families have asked for them to be private. The Chapmans have asked for Jessica to be cremated and the Wells family for Holly to be buried. Carr, 25, was remanded in custody when she appeared before Peterborough magistrates this week and will appear in Peterborough Crown Court on Thursday. Her boyfriend, college caretaker Huntley, 28, was charged with two counts of murder and detained at Rampton Hospital while psychiatric tests are carried out. The house he shared with Carr in the grounds of the college will be boarded up and hidden behind a security screen once a police search is completed and will probably be demolished once legal proceedings are finished. Meanwhile, football fans and players are preparing to hold a minute’s silence before their games over the weekend and it also emerged that the Prince of Wales had written a personal letter of condolence to the families of the girls. Timetable of events SUNDAY, 4 AUGUST Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, both ten, disappear after spending the day playing together. MONDAY, 5 AUGUST Extensive search using helicopter and civilian volunteers draws a blank. School caretaker Ian Huntley tells of being one of last people to see the girls alive. TUESDAY, 6 AUGUST David Beckham appeals for the girls, who were last seen wearing Manchester United replica shirts, to return home. THURSDAY, 8 AUGUST Police release CCTV pictures showing the last pictures of the girls. FRIDAY, 9 AUGUST Detectives say they believe the girls are still alive and appeal directly to the abductor. SATURDAY, 10 AUGUST Two young actresses act out Holly and Jessica’s last known movements in Soham. MONDAY,

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/police-reveal-horror-of-bodies-in-ditch-1-620448

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:19 pm

The story against Huntley was that after he had killed both the girls in his house, he put them both in the boot of his ford fiesta, where they remained overnight until some time the next day when he supposedly drove up to Lakenheath and dumped the bodies up to the location where they were finally said to be found...

But also some time between dumping them and them being found, it is claimed that he drove back up there, cut the football shirts off of the bodies, then set fire to the bodies (right next to the fence of the RAF base!?), to then return home to wash the shirts in the washing machine only to then take them to a lock up shelter area where he worked to put them in a dustbin, pour a bit of petrol on them, set light to them, let them burn for a few moments before pouring water over them to put fire out, and then leave them there for police to later 'find'...!?

No dna/blood etc of either of the girls or Huntley or anyone else was found on the shirts... no dirt/mud/grass/leaves/vegetation was found on them either... no dna in his car boot... or in his house... no sniffer dogs ever indicated any trace of anything on his car etc... none of his dna found anywhere on the girls bodies or anywhere in the location area they were finally 'found'...


It was originally said that the bodies were found in a water filled ditch/dyke and only discovered when a farmer drained it...

2 things here... did someone really set fire to them right next to this fence of this high security RAF base, and then after watching them burn for a while they then moved them into this dyke?

Or did this dyke only fill up with water after they were burned in there...?

But mainly... where is the farm/farmer that this dyke belonged to who was said to be draining it...?



Nothing about the official story adds up at all!!!


Plus... look at the alleged last photo of girls again... I posted link earlier... look closely at it... things don't look right there...

Then there is the car park footage discrepancies... two different times showing on pics in two different places (top left and bottom left)... 18:13 & 18:28... plus official time given in early reports was different again at 18:17...



What really happened...?

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