can we have a debate about Druids ?

Vicar of Dibley wrote:found this from an american site .

The Druids were Satanic to the core in their worship and pagan practices. Halloween is a Druid holiday that we in America have received from Satanic paganism. It was "baptized" so to speak, and accepted by the Roman Catholic church in the early A.D. 700's. Its name was changed into "All Hallow's Day" which means "All Saints Day." That's November 1st. And "Hallow's Eve," the evening before the "Hallow's Day," is October 31st or "Hallow'en, " Hallow evening," or "Halloween."

Celebrations of all kinds took place. In Ireland, carvings on pumpkins were made, and called Jack-O-Laterns. The legend was that a man named Jack had played practical jokes on the devil and bothered him, so the devil kept him out of heaven. Jack, therefore, had to live forever on earth carrying a lit lantern, warning people not to offend the devil. The lesson for little children: do not offend the devil.

Samhain is a Gaelic festival marking the end of the harvest season and the beginning of winter or the "darker half" of the year. It is celebrated from sunset on 31 October to sunset on 1 November, or about halfway between the autumn equinox and the winter solstice. It is one of the four Gaelic seasonal festivals, along with Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh. Historically, it was widely observed throughout Ireland, and later the Isle of Man and Scotland. Kindred festivals were held at the same time of year in other Celtic lands; for example the Brythonic Calan Gaeaf (in Wales), Kalan Gwav (in Cornwall), and Kalan Goañv (in Brittany).
Samhain is mentioned in some of the earliest Irish literature and is known to have pre-Christian roots.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:so are there priests in Druidism and are they authorized to marry people such as a church vicar can ?

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:so are there priests in Druidism and are they authorized to marry people such as a church vicar can ?

I have no idea, i guess if they are ordained in to their religion that they can...

darknessss wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:found this from an american site .

The Druids were Satanic to the core in their worship and pagan practices. Halloween is a Druid holiday that we in America have received from Satanic paganism. It was "baptized" so to speak, and accepted by the Roman Catholic church in the early A.D. 700's. Its name was changed into "All Hallow's Day" which means "All Saints Day." That's November 1st. And "Hallow's Eve," the evening before the "Hallow's Day," is October 31st or "Hallow'en, " Hallow evening," or "Halloween."

Celebrations of all kinds took place. In Ireland, carvings on pumpkins were made, and called Jack-O-Laterns. The legend was that a man named Jack had played practical jokes on the devil and bothered him, so the devil kept him out of heaven. Jack, therefore, had to live forever on earth carrying a lit lantern, warning people not to offend the devil. The lesson for little children: do not offend the devil.

erm ...only one thing wrong with that dibs.......

the early druids had no concept of satan
satan is a purely abrahamic construct

also halloween has nothing to do with satan or anyother "evil being"

it is the day on which the druids beleived the "veil" between this and the otherworld is at its thinnest, and therfore the dead could possibly walk again (not always seen as a negative...since it meant therefore that the dead could be "consulted") In what was a belief system at least partly revoling round ancestor worship this was not of necessity a "bad" thing....one might be able for instance to pusuade old ucle leoric to reveal where he had buried his treasure

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

I have no idea, i guess if they are ordained in to their religion that they can...

No, a Druid is a Priest. (there are actually multiple types of druid like you have different sorts of priests)

Marriage is easier in most pagan religions and generally controlled by the tribe/state (like we have today), but Druids could bless weddings.

darknessss wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

erm ...Dibs....satan didnt exist untill the abrahamists invented him

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

darknessss wrote:

erm ...Dibs....satan didnt exist untill the abrahamists invented him

satan in the bible is a description it means adversary..

didn't they refer to a Lord of the dead though, the early druids..?

darknessss wrote:I have been sat thinking

NOW HF annoys the f**k out of me
and Dibs is....well Dibs.....

BUT I have read again what she posted earlier .....I'm being a bit slow here

SO...I'm calling a truce...

becasue REGARDLESS of what has passed between others Its not nice to be in DIBs situation......

I shall "cease fire" as from now.....

becasue I am better than that

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

darknessss wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

satan in the bible is a description it means adversary..

didn't they refer to a Lord of the dead though, the early druids..?

in a way yes, but he was not a "satanic " type figure...he was not of necessity "evil"

indeed most of the "gods" could be benificent or malevolant by turns....they were very "human" in character

veya_victaous wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

My mother is the chairperson of the local spiritualist church.
I have been exposed to this stuff my whole life  
and have had an interest in the spiritual history for as long as i can remember.

plus i just posted it from wikipedia just then

Plus as victor said
"Satanic Pagan" is literally a DUMB statement that only someone that doesn't know what the word Pagan means could even suggest  Pagans don't believe in Satan, they do not have a binary dynamic of good and bad so the whole statement is just illogical

Regarding weddings from what I understand, yes basically. But it varies from tribe to tribe in many Celtic tribes it was simply that the Woman "Declared them married", keep in mind some like the Iceni, Famous for Boudicca, were somewhat matriarchal meaning that inheritance and leadership usually went through the women.

darknessss wrote:Most classes of early druids were "nobility"

now the "frock" that HF refers to amusingly was actually common place clothing amongst the nobility of the time

a woolen one piece cover all ...belted at the waist and worn with trousers under....

warm and practical....in hot weather the trousers could be dispensed with....cool man....well...in parts anyway....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

darknessss wrote:

in a way yes, but he was not a "satanic " type figure...he was not of necessity "evil"

indeed most of the "gods" could be benificent or malevolant by turns....they were very "human" in character

yeah i have read rituals where the victim so to speak acts out the part of their god and is then killed, it seems to make the gods human... i guess it better explains the good and bad times, whether the god is happy or mad and then needs pacifying..

darknessss wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

yeah i have read rituals where the victim so to speak acts out the part of their god and is then killed, it seems to make the gods human... i guess it better explains the good and bad times, whether the god is happy or mad and then needs pacifying..

this theme of gods having "human like " characters with all the human foibles like jealousy drunkeness etc is common thoughout nearly ALL early pagan societies....

read up about the sumarians...OH...and if you get a chance read the epic of gilgamesh....its interesting from a "spiritual history" perspective

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

darknessss wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

erm ...Dibs....satan didnt exist untill the abrahamists invented him

satan in the bible is a description it means adversary..

didn't they refer to a Lord of the dead though, the early druids..?

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

satan in the bible is a description it means adversary..

didn't they refer to a Lord of the dead though, the early druids..?

As is Jehovah  Do you not believe that your god is the lord of death (and the lord of life and all things) ?

As Victor already said
Druid gods are not really comparable (like most pagan gods) as they are not binary, it is the same reason why Didge's argument fall flat against some of them as they never claim to be good, perfect and all powerful to begin with. they are more representations of the natural world, representing elements and seasons, offering luck in various specialties.

In Irish Druidism the primary death god is Morrigan and she is a Raven that cares more for the well being of ravens than men... so as carrion birds they benefit from death, she is just one that highlight the Multiple perspectives 'circle of life' idea, that bad for one is good for another cycle.
http://www.druidry.org/library/gods-goddesses/morrigan

darknessss wrote:anyhows folks...I'm off to bed...

sleep well all

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:lol how are you right veya and me wrong ?

who is to say your information site isn't crap ?

My mother is the chairperson of the local spiritualist church.
I have been exposed to this stuff my whole life  
and have had an interest in the spiritual history for as long as i can remember.

plus i just posted it from wikipedia just then

Plus as victor said
"Satanic Pagan" is literally a DUMB statement that only someone that doesn't know what the word Pagan means could even suggest  Pagans don't believe in Satan, they do not have a binary dynamic of good and bad so the whole statement is just illogical

Regarding weddings from what I understand, yes basically. But it varies from tribe to tribe in many Celtic tribes it was simply that the Woman "Declared them married", keep in mind some like the Iceni, Famous for Boudicca, were somewhat matriarchal meaning that inheritance and leadership usually went through the women.

but is the spiritualist church druidic??

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

but is the spiritualist church druidic??

it is all encompassing, it is mainly pagan, it will get 'druids types' but true druids can only exist in Europe and even then mainly the UK and Ireland.  the vast majority of Pagans are neo-pagans that combine the multiple pantheons. Greek, Celtic, Norse, Egyptian and Aboriginal are just some of the gods that get represented there.
there are even Christian Spiritualists too.

they do everything from 'witch craft' to mediums and palm reading. they run a lot of courses and have speakers etc.

the only requirement is that you have to believe in souls but apart from that they are willing to let almost anyone hold a session.  

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

it is all encompassing, it is mainly pagan, it will get 'druids types' but true druids can only exist in Europe and even then mainly the UK and Ireland.  the vast majority of Pagans are neo-pagans that combine the multiple pantheons. Greek, Celtic, Norse, Egyptian and Aboriginal are just some of the gods that get represented there.
there are even Christian Spiritualists too.

they do everything from 'witch craft' to mediums and palm reading. they run a lot of courses and have speakers etc.

the only requirement is that you have to believe in souls but apart from that they are willing to let almost anyone hold a session.  

well i learnt something, which is a red letter day....

i suppose if the spiritualist church is doing healings that would lean them towards druidic things or do druids bother as much with individuals as with the planet as a whole?

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

I've never seen God as I know him as the Lord of death, to me he is the God of eternal life, i guess the enemy is more the lord of death..
Interesting perspective, I would say as lord of all things he is lord of death too, really as death is the path to heaven why would it not be controlled by him? but i think we view the world very differently.        

the statement of 'enemy' actually highlights everything I think is Wong with the Abrahamism world view, life and death are either side of the same coin one cannot exist without the other. and from science perspective they also say to a 'alive' something must die (plus be born, grow and reproduce).

I can see that it makes sense that a god be more human in ways and moods, it suits the good and bad things happening to its believers and the mood swings...

i thought most druids were interested in creation itself rather than creators...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

but is the spiritualist church druidic??

it is all encompassing, it is mainly pagan, it will get 'druids types' but true druids can only exist in Europe and even then mainly the UK and Ireland.  the vast majority of Pagans are neo-pagans that combine the multiple pantheons. Greek, Celtic, Norse, Egyptian and Aboriginal are just some of the gods that get represented there.
there are even Christian Spiritualists too.

they do everything from 'witch craft' to mediums and palm reading. they run a lot of courses and have speakers etc.

the only requirement is that you have to believe in souls but apart from that they are willing to let almost anyone hold a session.  

well i learnt something, which is a red letter day....

i suppose if the spiritualist church is doing healings that would lean them towards druidic things or do druids bother as much with individuals as with the planet as a whole?

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

well i learnt something, which is a red letter day....

i suppose if the spiritualist church is doing healings that would lean them towards druidic things or do druids bother as much with individuals as with the planet as a whole?

you would be surprised how open it is, Didge would literally deny that it is possible for religious people to exist like these one do. On open days there is Christian, Buddhist and various Pagan healers operating at the same time....  like i said if you believe in souls than they welcome your opinion/presence.  

Also it is not really a place people go to worship as much to talk, exchange ideas and meet like minded people. Also there is not one group of presenters, they generally book out different ones every week.

veya_victaous wrote:Good hopefully I am on ignore
Your posts are crap, you do not debate you just tell people they are not answering your question when they clearly did several posts back... but they don't give the copy paste answer like you give so you cant cope.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

but is the spiritualist church druidic??

it is all encompassing, it is mainly pagan, it will get 'druids types' but true druids can only exist in Europe and even then mainly the UK and Ireland.  the vast majority of Pagans are neo-pagans that combine the multiple pantheons. Greek, Celtic, Norse, Egyptian and Aboriginal are just some of the gods that get represented there.
there are even Christian Spiritualists too.

they do everything from 'witch craft' to mediums and palm reading. they run a lot of courses and have speakers etc.

the only requirement is that you have to believe in souls but apart from that they are willing to let almost anyone hold a session.  

well i learnt something, which is a red letter day....

darknessss wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

turning the other cheek doesn't mean letting retards from Doncaster verbally abuse us .

ave bin owt and dun shopping fo kids yet retard

the fact you use that word as an insult shows your contempt for those poor souls who are in reality mentally damaged in some way....

sick doesnt begin to describe you......

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:the jesus you invented is not the Jesus of the bible that is quite obvious, e have been through this...

by the way did Jesus turns the money lenders tables over, did Jesus say you brood of vipers, did he say you of little faith or did he just turn the cheek each time, please tell me because I forget....

Jesus chastised sinners, and turned over the money-lenders' table -- himself. He told YOU to turn the other cheek.

Within Christian theology, and this is something you seem to have a hard time understanding, Jesus is God -- Christians are not. Christians are told to love their enemies, to give to the poor, to treat everyone well and to leave vengeance to God.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Jesus chastised sinners, and turned over the money-lenders' table -- himself. He told YOU to turn the other cheek.

Within Christian theology, and this is something you seem to have a hard time understanding, Jesus is God -- Christians are not. Christians are told to love their enemies, to give to the poor, to treat everyone well and to leave vengeance to God.

Are you suggesting that it's fine for the atheists and pagans to be abusive on this forum? I do wish you wouldn't use religious faith as a stick to beat people with. I hope you're not going to sit there telling HF or VOD to turn the other cheek if someone is vile to them on here, whist completely ignoring or even condoning the vile comments on the grounds that the people making them are athiests or pagans.

Raggamuffin wrote:Ben, if someone is going to throw HF's faith in his face and start quoting the Bible at him every time he says something they don't like, this forum will become a blood bath. It's already way too obsessive about religion, particularly Christianity. Do you really want to see that?

Vicar of Dibley wrote:Ben i know you're an atheist and you're a really horrible hated atheist .
Another relative of mine died today and i feel really crap . I come on here to try and take my mind off my grief because in the past month four relatives have died now .

I have been abused on here by Christian haters and only a few people have noticed .

I know my husband retaliates but he is a good man and you don't know him, you only know him from here and you only ever pick on negative threads or posts which he is on . You really don't know him .

Maybe i shouldn't be here because all this negativity probably isn't good for someone who will be going to a fourth funeral in a month.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you suggesting that it's fine for the atheists and pagans to be abusive on this forum? I do wish you wouldn't use religious faith as a stick to beat people with. I hope you're not going to sit there telling HF or VOD to turn the other cheek if someone is vile to them on here, whist completely ignoring or even condoning the vile comments on the grounds that the people making them are athiests or pagans.

No abuse is ever right from anyone, which includes yourself and me.
The point being made is they certainly do not act Christian.


Also:

If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.

If posters claim to be something then it stands to reason they will be questioned on how they act according to their faith.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:Ben i know you're an atheist and you're a really horrible hated atheist .
Another relative of mine died today and i feel really crap . I come on here to try and take my mind off my grief because in the past month four relatives have died now .

I have been abused on here by Christian haters and only a few people have noticed .

I know my husband retaliates but he is a good man and you don't know him, you only know him from here and you only ever pick on negative threads or posts which he is on . You really don't know him .

Maybe i shouldn't be here because all this negativity probably isn't good for someone who will be going to a fourth funeral in a month.

Sorry to hear that VOD.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


No abuse is ever right from anyone, which includes yourself and me.
The point being made is they certainly do not act Christian.


Also:

If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.

If posters claim to be something then it stands to reason they will be questioned on how they act according to their faith.

No they just don't act how you think Christians should act ,there is a huge difference .

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Ben, if someone is going to throw HF's faith in his face and start quoting the Bible at him every time he says something they don't like, this forum will become a blood bath. It's already way too obsessive about religion, particularly Christianity. Do you really want to see that?

Not when that poster constantly uses the bible to justify his bigotry like for example with homosexuality.
Again religions are not free from criticism and even more so when they use their faith to justify discrimination. Then everyone has a right to question their Christian morality and ethics. All you are doing is trying to censor genuine criticism of Christianity.