HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG?

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Post by gelico on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

so there is so much discussion going on about this, how do you guys feel about this situation


The way I see it, any royal except the main crown takers are bound to feel like a bit of a spare part, who are they? what do they do?  what is their actual role?  how much money do they receive, etc etc

i do feel a bit sorry for meghan being a total outsider, she doesn't have the first idea about the royal family and how it works and i think she was warned by friends don't do it.  having ditched her family, she now has no one she can really confide in except close friends and she feels unwanted.

on the other hand Harry should have had the decency to not go public until talks had been completed.

also heard comments that for harry and megan go off and create brand sussex and make a fortune off the back of their titles but without any of the royal responsibility would be totally wrong

some really sad comments that the brothers are almost estranged over this and they've always been so close

comments?




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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:30 pm

Fred M. wrote:I'm sure that local newspapers and TV and radio stations in the USA do exactly the same.


They do, Fred. But what is different is we don't have the muck-raking tabloids that you have...except maybe recently, in the RW alternate news.

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Post by Vintage on Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:24 pm

Start as you mean to go on it seems, Harry and Meghan are threatening to sue a Canadian paper after a photo of Meghan strolling through a public park with Archie, her two dogs and two security men. She looks desperately unhappy at this intrusion - very relaxed, looking straight at the camera and if the smile was any broader the top half of her head would be hanging down her back like a parka hood.

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Post by nicko on Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:42 pm

+1
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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:58 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Lurker wrote:The British press are a bunch of vultures.

That's ridiculous claim based on a complete ignorance of the facts.

"The British press" includes many superb provincial morning, evening and weekly newspapers that do a tremendous job, not only in reporting local news and current affairs but also holding to account local  and regional authorities, businesses and other bodies that affect our daily lives and well-being.

I'm sure that local newspapers and TV and radio stations in the USA do exactly the same.

And our national press, for all its faults, does much the same thing so far as government and major institutions are concerned.

I would imagine that your own geniuine knowledge of British newspapers is based largely if not entirely on the partisan views expressed in social media sites such as this- by posters of all political persuasions.

I do tend to find the British press, in general, more fixated on nasty stories about the royals and celebrities in general than the American press is. But I don't say this to make the American press out to be better.

I think that the abundance of horrific stories, many involving gun violence, in the U.S. keep the American press well-fed, while the British press has to be more, shall we say, enterprising in order to keep the beast fed.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:00 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

That's ridiculous claim based on a complete ignorance of the facts.

"The British press" includes many superb provincial morning, evening and weekly newspapers that do a tremendous job, not only in reporting local news and current affairs but also holding to account local  and regional authorities, businesses and other bodies that affect our daily lives and well-being.

I'm sure that local newspapers and TV and radio stations in the USA do exactly the same.

And our national press, for all its faults, does much the same thing so far as government and major institutions are concerned.

I would imagine that your own geniuine knowledge of British newspapers is based largely if not entirely on the partisan views expressed in social media sites such as this- by posters of all political persuasions.

I do tend to find the British press, in general, more fixated on nasty stories about the royals and celebrities in general than the American press is. But I don't say this to make the American press out to be better.

I think that the abundance of horrific stories, many involving gun violence, in the U.S. keep the American press well-fed, while the British press has to be more, shall we say, enterprising in order to keep the beast fed.

Obviously the British press spends more time on the British Royal family. They're in the same country. How much time does the British Press spend talking about the Spanish Royal Family?

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:37 am

Tommy Monk wrote:I dont read and daily newspaper...


Media isn't just print newspapers.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:16 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I dont read and daily newspaper...


Media isn't just print newspapers.


I watch the BBC... are you saying the BBC is biased...!?


lol!



The only bias I see on bbc is left wing and pro remain bias...!



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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

That's ridiculous claim based on a complete ignorance of the facts.

"The British press" includes many superb provincial morning, evening and weekly newspapers that do a tremendous job, not only in reporting local news and current affairs but also holding to account local  and regional authorities, businesses and other bodies that affect our daily lives and well-being.

I'm sure that local newspapers and TV and radio stations in the USA do exactly the same.

And our national press, for all its faults, does much the same thing so far as government and major institutions are concerned.

I would imagine that your own geniuine knowledge of British newspapers is based largely if not entirely on the partisan views expressed in social media sites such as this- by posters of all political persuasions.

I do tend to find the British press, in general, more fixated on nasty stories about the royals and celebrities in general than the American press is. But I don't say this to make the American press out to be better.

I think that the abundance of horrific stories, many involving gun violence, in the U.S. keep the American press well-fed, while the British press has to be more, shall we say, enterprising in order to keep the beast fed.

Coming from a provincial Press background I have very little, if any, interest in so-called "celebrity" gossip and tittle-tattle and I simply ignore it.

The Royal Family is, however, entirely different; they have been central to British history for over a thousand years.
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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:41 pm

Fred M. wrote:The Royal Family is, however, entirely different; they have been central to British history for over a thousand years.

And yet, times change.  This is the age of people selecting for themselves their own lifestyle.

I suppose that is, inevitably, the clash of democracy vs. aristocracy/monarchy, but even in the UK democracy has already won out.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:41 pm







Let them drift off into whatever life they want to have for themselves... as long as they dont expect taxpayer funding for it...


And as long as they aren't trying to cash in on still trying to be part of the royal family that they are running away from...




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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:43 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Let them drift off into whatever life they want to have for themselves... as long as they dont expect taxpayer funding for it...


And as long as they aren't trying to cash in on still trying to be part of the royal family that they are running away from...

I'm sure they'll get what is their due from inheritance. Making new money...we'll see what the market wants. Nothing wrong with cashing in on your popularity.

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Post by nicko on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:35 am

Royalty are not supposed to "cash in" on their position.Just image what our Queen could make if she endorsed Pringles for example Laughing
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:50 pm

nicko wrote:Royalty are not supposed to "cash in" on their position.Just image what our Queen could make if she endorsed Pringles for example Laughing

They do it every day. And, yes, the Queen is cashing in on being Queen. What is she worth? People everyday bowing to her. Automobiles. Beautiful estates. Trips abroad. Horses for a hobby. Servants to polish your surroundings everyday. It's the greatest "cash-in" of all.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

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Post by nicko on Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:29 pm

Don't you wish you could have it ?
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:41 pm

nicko wrote:Don't you wish you could have it ?

I think you have to be born into it to really covet that lifestyle.

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Normal is broken.

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Post by JulesV on Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:23 pm

Maddog wrote:
Brutus wrote:I am struggling to understand WHY people are CONTINUING their attacks on Harry and Meghan.
The decisions have been made, the 3 most important people in this saga are satisfied with the outcome , the Queen, Harry and Meghan, so what is the point in continuing the hostility and futile vitriol.
Not just from the ghastly press, but from the posters here who upon first impressions hate her.
It's all a bit like Brexit.
The vote was made, the decision was to leave.
And many Brexiteers slammed leavers for not accepting what has happened.
That smacks of hypocrisy.

Why are the Royals covered at all?
The press does it to make money. Discussing the royals generates a large income for the press. The more clickbait articles they print, more cash rolls in.

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Post by Lurker on Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:26 pm

Wherever they can find happiness and get away from the British tabloids and HATERS, more power to them. They deserve happiness and tranquility.

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Post by JulesV on Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:Royalty are not supposed to "cash in" on their position.Just image what our Queen could make if she endorsed Pringles for example Laughing

They do it every day.  And, yes, the Queen is cashing in on being Queen.  What is she worth?  
People everyday bowing to her.  
Automobiles.  
Beautiful estates.  
Trips abroad.  
Horses for a hobby.  
Servants to polish your surroundings everyday.  It's the greatest "cash-in" of all.
And housemaids to run hot baths and lay out freshly laundered clothes daily.
Chefs, chauffeurs, personal secretaries at the beck and call
Unrivalled  jewel and art collection.
Swimming pools. I gather there's a large magnificent one at the palace that Diana & assorted royal relatives used.

Sounds just wonderful. bounce


Oh and all those with royal connections - however tenuous- benefit from it.
Granddaughter Zara has a lucrative Landrover deal.

And her brother Peter sells British milk to the Chinese!
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They ALL cash in on their royal heritage, they're all at it. There are no innocents in this. Cool

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Post by JulesV on Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote:People won't stop talking about this for sometime, there are too many questions still to be sorted. It has all come as a huge shock to many Royalists, they are not all haters, in fact very few are, as Harry said the people had taken him as their own, he is very well loved.
If he is so unhappy with his lot the best thing is to leave for a 'normal' life, which is something he'll never have in reality but good luck to them. Harry is a great loss to the Royal Family and country.
So no Quill I am not happy to see them go just trying to give the reasons why people are still talking about it all.

Well--he and Meghan leaving--it's the best that can be hoped for under the circumstances, don't you agree?  They are simply exercising their choice to enjoy the lifestyle they want.  

The fact that their life cannot be "normal", in a non-royal sense, is not of their doing.  I mean, after all, they suffer to consequences of extreme adulation as well.  It's a burden to be popular.

BYW...I'm a royalist too.  But, to be fair, I want whatever they want.

If another baby arrives they will need to put down some roots somewhere so that they can give a stable environment to their young family. I hope they find the peace they seek, and settle down properly instead of living a weird nomadic lifestyle and not really belonging anywhere.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:28 pm

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Well--he and Meghan leaving--it's the best that can be hoped for under the circumstances, don't you agree?  They are simply exercising their choice to enjoy the lifestyle they want.  

The fact that their life cannot be "normal", in a non-royal sense, is not of their doing.  I mean, after all, they suffer to consequences of extreme adulation as well.  It's a burden to be popular.

BYW...I'm a royalist too.  But, to be fair, I want whatever they want.

If another baby arrives they will need to put down some roots somewhere so that they can give a stable environment to their young family. I hope they find the peace they seek, and settle down properly instead of living a weird nomadic lifestyle and not really belonging anywhere.

I think a nomadic lifestyle has some advantages. Children who live in multiple countries growing up seem to be OK. I do understand that they really never have a place on this planet that they call home, and that may have a downside.

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Post by eddie on Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:50 pm

Lurker wrote:Wherever they can find happiness and get away from the British tabloids and HATERS, more power to them. They deserve happiness and tranquility.

I agree, Lurker.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:15 pm

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Well--he and Meghan leaving--it's the best that can be hoped for under the circumstances, don't you agree?  They are simply exercising their choice to enjoy the lifestyle they want.  

The fact that their life cannot be "normal", in a non-royal sense, is not of their doing.  I mean, after all, they suffer to consequences of extreme adulation as well.  It's a burden to be popular.

BYW...I'm a royalist too.  But, to be fair, I want whatever they want.

If another baby arrives they will need to put down some roots somewhere so that they can give a stable environment to their young family. I hope they find the peace they seek, and settle down properly instead of living a weird nomadic lifestyle and not really belonging anywhere.

They seem to gravitate toward Vancouver, the second largest city in the west coast of North America.  In addition to University of British Columbia, and internationally-renowned Simon Fraser University, the kids can attend the British Columbia Institute of Technology, or for the creative minded, Emily Carr University of Art + Design.  Perhaps they might follow their mother, and attend the Vancouver Film School.

But for my money, nothing beats the McGill University in Montreal:

Summary
McGill University is a public institution that was founded in 1821 and is located in Quebec, Canada. The university has two campuses: the downtown campus in Montreal and the Macdonald campus in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue. The two campuses are approximately 20 miles apart. The primary language of instruction is English, although in a recent year around 20 percent of university students said French was their mother tongue. In fact, around half of the population of Montreal speaks French as a first language. Around one-fourth of the student body is international, with students hailing from more than 150 countries. University housing is available for undergraduate and graduate students on both campuses.

The university is made up of 10 faculties and schools – agricultural and environmental sciences, arts, dentistry, education, engineering, law, management, medicine, music and science – that offer around 300 programs of study. Around two-thirds of the university's students study at the undergraduate level. Tuition costs are higher for international students, and McGill's academic calendar is based on a semester system. The university is affiliated with multiple teaching hospitals, and its medical school is the oldest in Canada. Research at the university takes place at more than 40 McGill research centers – such as the McGill Centre for Bioinformatics, the Centre on Population Dynamics and the Centre for Intellectual Property Policy – and at other affiliated institutes and hospitals. The creation of the first artificial blood cell is among the research achievements associated with the university.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/mcgill-university-499986

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They could winter in Whistler, BC.  Great slopes.  Beautiful rooms.

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One of my most memorable Christmases was at the Hotel Frontenac, Quebec City, Quebec:

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Overlooking the St. Lawrence River and Old Quebec below, it is beautiful in the winter:

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Brush up on your French, tho...they don't speak English in Quebec.

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Normal is broken.

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Post by JulesV on Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:

If another baby arrives they will need to put down some roots somewhere so that they can give a stable environment to their young family. I hope they find the peace they seek, and settle down properly instead of living a weird nomadic lifestyle and not really belonging anywhere.

I think a nomadic lifestyle has some advantages. Children who live in multiple countries growing up seem to be OK. I do understand that they really never have a place on this planet that they call home, and that may have a downside.  

I was thinking more along the lines of schooling, Maddog. Tiny kids having to keep changing schools frequently and having to make new friends constantly can be very disruptive to a child's emotional wellbeing.

I guess the character of the parents and how strong their marriage is, makes a big difference too. So many variables here.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:06 pm

JulesV wrote:
Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:

If another baby arrives they will need to put down some roots somewhere so that they can give a stable environment to their young family. I hope they find the peace they seek, and settle down properly instead of living a weird nomadic lifestyle and not really belonging anywhere.

I think a nomadic lifestyle has some advantages. Children who live in multiple countries growing up seem to be OK. I do understand that they really never have a place on this planet that they call home, and that may have a downside.  

I was thinking more along the lines of schooling, Maddog. Tiny kids having to keep changing schools frequently and having to make new friends constantly can be very disruptive to a child's emotional wellbeing.

I guess the character of the parents and how strong their marriage is, makes a big difference too. So many variables here.

I was raised in a fairly nomadic fashion, moving six times in my first 12 years (and I'm not talking a few streets away, I'm talking to different cities and states). It was tough to make friends, and I think I learned not to get close to anybody because I always expected to be taken away from them before long.

It can help you learn to fit in quickly, but that's not really a good thing to learn anyway. I think in a stable environment with the same cast of characters around you, so to speak, in your childhood, you learn to be yourself and trust other people to either get it or not.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:10 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
JulesV wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of schooling, Maddog. Tiny kids having to keep changing schools frequently and having to make new friends constantly can be very disruptive to a child's emotional wellbeing.

I guess the character of the parents and how strong their marriage is, makes a big difference too. So many variables here.

I was raised in a fairly nomadic fashion, moving six times in my first 12 years (and I'm not talking a few streets away, I'm talking to different cities and states). It was tough to make friends, and I think I learned not to get close to anybody because I always expected to be taken away from them before long.

It can help you learn to fit in quickly, but that's not really a good thing to learn anyway. I think in a stable environment with the same cast of characters around you, so to speak, in your childhood, you learn to be yourself and trust other people to either get it or not.

Yes, I moved too. I made sure my kids didn't, because it was opposite of what I had and I wished I had a hometown, which I really don't.

On the other hand, Army Brats seem OK buy growing up sorta nomadic.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:32 am

Maddog wrote:……… On the other hand, Army Brats seem OK buy growing up sorta nomadic.

See, the army is a very well organised institution.
The families which are moved around are well looked after - before, during and after their stints by an excellent support network. Everything is in place to ensure  army brats do not suffer unduly as a result of their nomadic lifestyle. There is positivity and a sense of purpose.

But it's a different matter when the reasons for an unsettled lifestyle are sad ones  - eg like divorce or the family feeling ostracised.

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Post by Cass on Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:28 am

JulesV wrote:
Maddog wrote:……… On the other hand, Army Brats seem OK buy growing up sorta nomadic.

See, the army is a very well organised institution.
The families which are moved around are well looked after - before, during and after their stints by an excellent support network. Everything is in place to ensure  army brats do not suffer unduly as a result of their nomadic lifestyle. There is positivity and a sense of purpose.

But it's a different matter when the reasons for an unsettled lifestyle are sad ones  - eg like divorce or the family feeling ostracised.

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

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Post by Lurker on Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:44 pm

the world needs to leave them alone...

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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:44 pm

Cass wrote:
JulesV wrote:

See, the army is a very well organised institution.
The families which are moved around are well looked after - before, during and after their stints by an excellent support network. Everything is in place to ensure  army brats do not suffer unduly as a result of their nomadic lifestyle. There is positivity and a sense of purpose.

But it's a different matter when the reasons for an unsettled lifestyle are sad ones  - eg like divorce or the family feeling ostracised.

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

That was sorta my point. Being nomadic has its benefits but also its costs.

I wanted my kids to have roots in one place because I didnt really have that. But I also understand that living in multiple places exposed a child to more ideas, cultures and the like.

I guess an argument can be made for both types of upbringing.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:48 pm

Cass wrote:
JulesV wrote:

See, the army is a very well organised institution.
The families which are moved around are well looked after - before, during and after their stints by an excellent support network. Everything is in place to ensure  army brats do not suffer unduly as a result of their nomadic lifestyle. There is positivity and a sense of purpose.

But it's a different matter when the reasons for an unsettled lifestyle are sad ones  - eg like divorce or the family feeling ostracised.

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

Cass, it seems you have had an unpleasant experience. I wasn't Army, but I found military bases, post exchanges, and clubs to be extraordinary. At least around Europe, the ME and Africa...I wasn't in Asia. I found, even in moving, they went to extra lengths to ease the burdens. Occasionally, you had to travel in hollowed out cargo planes, but, you know...meh.

I will say that I wasn't a family, meaning I was single, and perhaps it was in that area you found the military services deficient.

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Post by Cass on Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:23 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

That was sorta my point.  Being nomadic has its benefits but also its costs.  

I wanted my kids to have roots in one place because I didnt really have that.  But I also understand that living in multiple places exposed a child to more ideas, cultures and the like.  

I guess an argument can be made for both types of upbringing.  

Very true. There are pros and cons to both types as with most things in life.

What’s interesting is that both the boys and I feel like we don’t have a hometown (I moved a lot as a kid when my dad changed jobs then their divorce and then moving to the UK) whereas Mr. C, even though he moved with us and a few times before I met him and is now a dual citizen, will always feel that Glasgow is somehow home. Certainly I feel that both the states in a general sense and the UK in a general sense are both home. I got terribly homesick for the states while living in the UK and Europe for 25 years and for the past almost 12 years I’ve been homesick for the UK. Go figure. I also think it plays a part in why junior junior went back to the UK to study for his masters degree. (11 more days till I can hug the stuffing out of him!).

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Post by Cass on Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Cass wrote:

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

Cass, it seems you have had an unpleasant experience.  I wasn't Army, but I found military bases, post exchanges, and clubs to be extraordinary.  At least around Europe, the ME and Africa...I wasn't in Asia.  I found, even in moving, they went to extra lengths to ease the burdens.  Occasionally, you had to travel in hollowed out cargo planes, but, you know...meh.

I will say that I wasn't a family, meaning I was single, and perhaps it was in that area you found the military services deficient.

Not unpleasant per se, just stressful. Once we were settled in, it got better. Only once were we in the position of being in one place for just a year.

American bases have always been much better at providing the things you mentioned than the British bases at least in the UK. Overseas was much better. Cyprus was outstanding in what we had but the army considered air conditioning the work of Satan so it wasn’t very nice in the hot and humid summers.

But yes traveling as a single person as opposed to a family is different. See my response to Maddog.

Hey I traveled from NI to Germany round trip in a C-130 I believe it was called, when I was 5 months pregnant with senior junior as we got a very cheap holiday. The toilet was a can behind a curtain. It was a very interesting trip!

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:03 pm

C-130's are neat.  I traveled all over the Med in them.  Colder 'an hell unless you got up in the bulkhead bunks or on top of the cargo.  But very kool airplanes.  Unfortunately, they've been replaced mostly by the C-17.

We flew around in whatever was available and going our way.  One time in Tripoli, Libya, a General had his sabreliner jet waiting on the tarmac at Wheelus AFB, deadheading to Rome.  We hopped it.  After we were airborne, the steward came up and offered us drinks.

How often does that happen, so we decided to press our luck.  We asked for single malt whiskies.  He brought them, and said apologetically, I'm sorry, but AF rules, I have to charge you...5-cents each, please.  Shocked

A private jet, with a steward, heading to Rome, single malt whiskies??  Every once in a while life hands you little gifts...  Wink

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Post by Lurker on Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:59 pm

I was in the Air Force but never left the states. I never flew either (except commercial). I was a ground radar repairman. I did maintenance on the radars that tracked planes.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:11 pm

Lurker wrote:I was in the Air Force but never left the states. I never flew either  (except commercial). I was a ground radar repairman. I did maintenance on the radars that tracked planes.

My brother-in-law was the same way. He was a pilot in B-52's, and never left the states. But, stationed out of Blytheville, Arkansas, every day he flew to the Bering Sea, took a right to Europe via North Sea, and bee-lined back to Arkansas. He only landed and took off in the US.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:57 pm

Cass wrote:
JulesV wrote:

See, the army is a very well organised institution.
The families which are moved around are well looked after - before, during and after their stints by an excellent support network. Everything is in place to ensure  army brats do not suffer unduly as a result of their nomadic lifestyle. There is positivity and a sense of purpose.

But it's a different matter when the reasons for an unsettled lifestyle are sad ones  - eg like divorce or the family feeling ostracised.

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

So as to make an army career look attractive and make it easy to recruit members, I've seen their adverts.

They looked after the soldiers as well as they could cos they knew it makes sense.

It's in the interests of the army bosses for the soldiers to be as physically and mentally fit, and as happy as possible.
Miserable, malcontent troops is the last thing the bosses would want, hence they try to keep them content.
I never thought the army bosses cared for the soldiers' welfare purely out of the goodness of their hearts.
(The financial costs of running a huge army must be a nightmare).

13 moves? sounds atrocious, Cass  Shocked having your family uprooted so many times is bound to taint your experience, to the distraction of everything else. Who can blame you?

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Post by Cass on Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:09 am

JulesV wrote:
Cass wrote:

Not totally true Jules. A lot of the time, the Army just wants to be seen to be caring. Trust me, I know from experience. All 13 moves were a major headache and upset for the whole family. Schools, doctors, dentists, a job for me, substandard housing...I could go on and on.

Did army life give my kids a great experience in living in other cultures and seeing a lot of the world their mates would never see? Yes but at a cost.

Luckily my two turned out great but it took a lot of extra effort on our part.

So as to make an army career look attractive and make it easy to recruit members, I've seen their adverts.

They looked after the soldiers as well as they could cos they knew it makes sense.

It's in the interests of the army bosses for the soldiers to be as physically and mentally fit, and as happy as possible.
Miserable, malcontent troops is the last thing the bosses would want, hence they try to keep them content.
I never thought the army bosses cared for the soldiers' welfare purely out of the goodness of their hearts.
(The financial costs of running a huge army must be a nightmare).

13 moves? sounds atrocious, Cass  Shocked having your family uprooted so many times is bound to taint your experience, to the distraction of everything else. Who can blame you?

Oh I am far from alone. Most of the people we are seeing when we come over are all long standing army friends. They all have their own horror stories. My worst one is when junior junior was 6 weeks old and developed a hernia that needed an operation ASAP. We were stationed in Germany at the time. Senior junior wasn’t even 6. Mr. C had 6 weeks left in Bosnia. They wouldn’t fly him home (although his direct boss tried his hardest), they wouldn’t help pay to get my mum over from the UK on compassionate grounds and would take SJ into care if, and I quote directly, I couldn’t cope. Luckily our friends all rallied around and helped me by looking after SJ so
I could stay at the hospital. After that as far as I was concerned I lost all respect for the army.

It was a great career for Mr. C as it got him away from a background of terrible poverty in Glasgow and he rose through the ranks and became a commissioned officer and retired as a major. So in that aspect it was great. It gave us a solid foundation in order to buy our own home over here. And as I mentioned it gave us life long friends. Many of whom are traveling a great distance to all meet up on our last Friday night. It’s going to be a hell of a party!

Anyway returning to topic, each family must do what is right for them. Maybe H&M will settle permanently in one country or another, only time can tell. What’s great now is with modern technology, family and friends are not so far away. I just hope that they can get the peace and quiet that we sometimes take for granted.

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Post by JulesV on Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:23 pm

Cass wrote:
JulesV wrote:

So as to make an army career look attractive and make it easy to recruit members, I've seen their adverts.

They looked after the soldiers as well as they could cos they knew it makes sense.

It's in the interests of the army bosses for the soldiers to be as physically and mentally fit, and as happy as possible.
Miserable, malcontent troops is the last thing the bosses would want, hence they try to keep them content.
I never thought the army bosses cared for the soldiers' welfare purely out of the goodness of their hearts.
(The financial costs of running a huge army must be a nightmare).

13 moves? sounds atrocious, Cass  Shocked having your family uprooted so many times is bound to taint your experience, to the distraction of everything else. Who can blame you?

Oh I am far from alone. Most of the people we are seeing when we come over are all long standing army friends. They all have their own horror stories. My worst one is when junior junior was 6 weeks old and developed a hernia that needed an operation ASAP. We were stationed in Germany at the time. Senior junior wasn’t even 6. Mr. C had 6 weeks left in Bosnia. They wouldn’t fly him home (although his direct boss tried his hardest), they wouldn’t help pay to get my mum over from the UK on compassionate grounds and would take SJ into care if, and I quote directly, I couldn’t cope. Luckily our friends all rallied around and helped me by looking after SJ so
I could stay at the hospital. After that as far as I was concerned I lost all respect for the army.

It was a great career for Mr. C as it got him away from a background of terrible poverty in Glasgow and he rose through the ranks and became a commissioned officer and retired as a major. So in that aspect it was great. It gave us a solid foundation in order to buy our own home over here. And as I mentioned it gave us life long friends. Many of whom are traveling a great distance to all meet up on our last Friday night. It’s going to be a hell of a party!

Anyway returning to topic, each family must do what is right for them. Maybe H&M will settle permanently in one country or another, only time can tell. What’s great now is with modern technology, family and friends are not so far away. I just hope that they can get the peace and quiet that we sometimes take for granted.

Hope you have a wonderful reunion party, Cass.  One you'll never forget. cheers

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Post by JulesV on Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Cass, it seems you have had an unpleasant experience.  I wasn't Army, but I found military bases, post exchanges, and clubs to be extraordinary.  At least around Europe, the ME and Africa...I wasn't in Asia.  I found, even in moving, they went to extra lengths to ease the burdens.  Occasionally, you had to travel in hollowed out cargo planes, but, you know...meh.

I will say that I wasn't a family, meaning I was single, and perhaps it was in that area you found the military services deficient.
My son is sort of half American (nationality-wise) and when he was a kid he actively sought out American friends among their community here in England and they all seemed like happy, well adjusted kids.


Yes Quill, it struck me how well the US department of defence looks after its own - when US national Anne Sacoolas caused the death of British teenage biker Harry Dunn, the US defence instantly whisked Sacoolas and her own kids back to America,  to avoid legal penalties, and they gave her expert legal advice (she said) and helped her settle back into a comfortable life back home. In no time at all she was living a normal life and happily driving cars again as if nothing had happened.

Additionally the Defence bosses tried to settle the bill for compensation for the loss of the boy's life, a large cheque was waved in front of the faces of Harry's parents but they refused the money on principle. They preferred to press charges.  Not everyone can be bought.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 pm

JulesV wrote:Yes Quill, it struck me how well the US department of defence looks after its own - when US national Anne Sacoolas caused the death of British teenage biker Harry Dunn, the US defence instantly whisked Sacoolas and her own kids back to America, to avoid legal penalties, and they gave her expert legal advice (she said) and helped her settle back into a comfortable life back home. In no time at all she was living a normal life and happily driving cars again as if nothing had happened.

A bitter example, but your point is well taken. But Anne's protections are not military. Her husband Jonathan is an electrical engineer, based at RAF Croughton, Northamptonshire. He is involved with the NSA, in matters of communications, working for the benefit of both the UK and the US. His assignment overlaps with State Department jurisdiction.

The British government put in place the diplomatic immunity, giving staff and their families based at RAF Croughton the immunity in question. It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is.

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Post by Lurker on Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:47 pm

Nobody has the right to say they are "right or wrong". It's their lives and more power to them.

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Post by JulesV on Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:13 am

Original Quill wrote:
JulesV wrote:Yes Quill, it struck me how well the US department of defence looks after its own - when US national Anne Sacoolas caused the death of British teenage biker Harry Dunn, the US defence instantly whisked Sacoolas and her own kids back to America,  to avoid legal penalties, and they gave her expert legal advice (she said) and helped her settle back into a comfortable life back home. In no time at all she was living a normal life and happily driving cars again as if nothing had happened.

A bitter example, but your point is well taken.  But Anne's protections are not military.  Her husband Jonathan is an electrical engineer, based at RAF Croughton, Northamptonshire.  He is involved with the NSA, in matters of communications, working for the benefit of both the UK and the US.  His assignment overlaps with State Department jurisdiction.  

The British government put in place the diplomatic immunity, giving staff and their families based at RAF Croughton the immunity in question.  It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is.

She was protected by the USA Defence. The two terms (defence / military) are not quite the same, I know ….. but in certain contexts they are loosely interchangeable. Just semantics really. Smile

I'm not too sure her husband was just an engineer, he was always referred to as some sort of 'agent' working at a govt spy centre. The way Trump himself personally intervened and then quickly offered compensation to the parents makes me think this agent was high up in the chain. Like he knew top secret stuff, due to the nature of his work ……. I don't visualise him as a bog standard engineer.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:36 am

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

A bitter example, but your point is well taken.  But Anne's protections are not military.  Her husband Jonathan is an electrical engineer, based at RAF Croughton, Northamptonshire.  He is involved with the NSA, in matters of communications, working for the benefit of both the UK and the US.  His assignment overlaps with State Department jurisdiction.  

The British government put in place the diplomatic immunity, giving staff and their families based at RAF Croughton the immunity in question.  It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is.

She was protected by the USA Defence. The two terms (defence / military) are not quite the same, I know ….. but in certain contexts they are loosely interchangeable. Just semantics really. Smile

I'm not too sure her husband was just an engineer, he was always referred to as some sort of 'agent' working at a govt  spy centre. The way Trump himself personally intervened and then quickly offered compensation to the parents makes me think this agent was high up in the chain. Like he knew top secret stuff, due to the nature of his work ……. I don't visualise him as a bog standard engineer.

I looked it up and learned that Johathan was working for the National Security Agency (NSA).

Wiki wrote:The National Security Agency (NSA) is a national-level intelligence agency of the United States Department of Defense, under the authority of the Director of National Intelligence. The NSA is responsible for global monitoring, collection, and processing of information and data for foreign and domestic intelligence and counterintelligence purposes, specializing in a discipline known as signals intelligence (SIGINT). The NSA is also tasked with the protection of U.S. communications networks and information systems. The NSA relies on a variety of measures to accomplish its mission, the majority of which are clandestine.

The NSA is pretty high-level.  I'm pretty sure that the British government is a partner of the US, in all such SIGINT data that is received or analyzed.  That would make the British government most interested in making sure that operatives involved would be comfortable in their jobs.  If the UK extended diplomatic immunity to all stationed at RAF Croughton, I'm sure they had good reason.

I taught at universities and knew lots of people working in top secret areas.  One of my best friends at the University of Arizona was tops in the field of 'remote sensing' and was on the payroll of the CIA in addition to his salary at the U of A.  The NSA is very protective of those people, and certainly does not want to see them in situations of 'compromat'.

The guy’s wife got into trouble, and the British government had to honor that diplomatic immunity chit.  Donno but what the British Government might have helped her get out of the country.  And it’s not all about comfort.  The Russians would love to hear that a high level operative’s wife was in a British prison, where she might be threatened by some Albanian in former FSB employ. Jonathan could be blackmailed to spill information if his wife was threatened.

It gets complicated.

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Post by nicko on Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:56 pm

If the US asks us to send back a Yank they want,the answer should be ,get stuffed !
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Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:19 pm

nicko wrote:If the US asks us to send back a Yank they want,the answer should be ,get stuffed !

I think that Trump would find that fitting.  He has already made enemies with most Europeans, why not the UK?  Building walls is much more to his liking.

B'sides, he's on Putin's side.  Can the whole program at RAF Croughton, give all the data to the Ruskis.  They are pouring vodka down at Minski's.  We'll toast the next trade war.  HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 2984306523


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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by JulesV on Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:03 am

Oh dear,  while the media and press and SM etc,  were all obsessively focusing on poor Harry and Meghan, ANOTHER royal grandson quietly separated from his wife. Peter Philips and his Canadian wife Autumn are going their separate ways. Shocked  Sad

The queen is said to be devastated, naturally.  And it must be heartbreaking for the couple themselves and their 2 kids. Peter and Autumn seemed to have a rock solid, perfect marriage. I hope they both find the peace they seek, now.


I actually posted Peter's pic upthread in connection with another matter.
HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 C47c2b76f5fa6ec1a6916d817fd9f387

I haven't bothered to make a thread about this latest royal divorce - cos what's the point HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 2190311264  the marriage of Peter and his wife is over - and there isn't that much else to say really. Maybe someone else might make a thread about it, if they wish.

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Post by nicko on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:01 am

He seems to close to Cows !
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Post by Cass on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:08 am

JulesV wrote:Oh dear,  while the media and press and SM etc,  were all obsessively focusing on poor Harry and Meghan, ANOTHER royal grandson quietly separated from his wife. Peter Philips and his Canadian wife Autumn are going their separate ways. Shocked  Sad

The queen is said to be devastated, naturally.  And it must be heartbreaking for the couple themselves and their 2 kids. Peter and Autumn seemed to have a rock solid, perfect marriage. I hope they both find the peace they seek, now.


I actually posted Peter's pic upthread in connection with another matter.
HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 C47c2b76f5fa6ec1a6916d817fd9f387

I haven't bothered to make a thread about this latest royal divorce - cos what's the point HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 2190311264  the marriage of Peter and his wife is over - and there isn't that much else to say really. Maybe someone else might make a thread about it, if they wish.

It is sad. More than likely the pressures of living as part of the royal family contributed in some way. What a godawful life to live. Hope they can find happiness and that the press leaves them alone.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:40 am

Cass wrote:
JulesV wrote:Oh dear,  while the media and press and SM etc,  were all obsessively focusing on poor Harry and Meghan, ANOTHER royal grandson quietly separated from his wife. Peter Philips and his Canadian wife Autumn are going their separate ways. Shocked  Sad

The queen is said to be devastated, naturally.  And it must be heartbreaking for the couple themselves and their 2 kids. Peter and Autumn seemed to have a rock solid, perfect marriage. I hope they both find the peace they seek, now.


I actually posted Peter's pic upthread in connection with another matter.
HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 C47c2b76f5fa6ec1a6916d817fd9f387

I haven't bothered to make a thread about this latest royal divorce - cos what's the point HARRY AND MEGHAN,,,,,,RIGHT OR WRONG? - Page 3 2190311264  the marriage of Peter and his wife is over - and there isn't that much else to say really. Maybe someone else might make a thread about it, if they wish.

It is sad. More than likely the pressures of living as part of the royal family contributed in some way. What a godawful life to live. Hope they can find happiness and that the press leaves them alone.

I've been divorced twice. Could just be they picked the wrong people.

I'm pretty sure most divorces are a result of money problems. The Royals don't have that problem.

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Vintage on Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:33 am

Although they are part of the Royal family they aren't active in it. They live their own lives and work at whatever they do, there isn't huge pressure on them, they only tend to be seen at family gatherings, they aren't constantly in the media so I doubt its much to do with being part of the RF.

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