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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:59 pm

Just released, short range missiles have just rained down on US bases in Iraq.  Trump, the guy who blustered to get out of foreign adventures, has just started another war.

You just knew that a guy with that personality, could not help but stumble into some sort of international disaster.

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Post by Eilzel on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:53 pm

Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:10 pm

Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.

Do stay out of it, even if some British soldiers were in the conflict. This is the complete fuck-up of an idiot. We told you his fat ass would back into a war, and here we see it happening.


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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Eilzel on Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.

Do stay out of it, even if some British soldiers were in the conflict.  This is the complete fuck-up of an idiot.  We told you his fat ass would back into a war, and here we see it happening.


I never doubted it. Until today though I thought BoJo would have at least the sense not to tag us along in a future nonsense war with Iran, now I'm not so sure.

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:24 am

Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.


Its disgusting what quislings continue to appease mass murderers in places like Iran

They fired 20 ballistic missiles and basically could not even hit a barn door

Pipe down you scared little rabbit

Like I said the US and its allies can literally continue to take out Irans capabilities if need be

Thankfully some people are willing to stand up to mass murderers.

No doubt you would have been waving the white flag in 1939 as well

Hence a country which literally hangs fellow gays sees you appease them

That is what is disgusting

Seriously grow some backbone

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:29 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.


Its disgusting what quislings continue to appease mass murderers in places like Iran

They fired 20 ballistic missiles and basically could not even hit a barn door

Pipe down you scared little rabbit

Like I said the US and its allies can literally continue to take out Irans capabilities if need be

Thankfully some people are willing to stand up to mass murderers.

No doubt you would have been waving the white flag in 1939 as well

Hence a country which literally hangs fellow gays sees you appease them

That is what is disgusting

Seriously grow some backbone


Also where is the mass demonstrations around the world for taking out a mass murderer?

Even Russia and China have been very quite

The world has been basically silent to the killing of this mass murderer.

The Middle East is changing and many rightly see Iran as the threat

The biggest mistake that Iran could do now is attack Israel, as they would gladly take an excuse to wipe out Iran's military capability

So if you and Quill wish to shout in anger at Trump actually doing something right for once. Taking out someone who executed people for being gay. Its shows the pair of you have all your priorities wrong

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Post by gelico on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:13 am

Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.


les, it's ridiculous that you will use this to just insult trump

look at the facts

the media won't show you the hundreds of thousands of iranians partying and thanking trump for his actions, but the videos are still there showing it.

it has emboldened more iranian women to break free and remove their hijabs.

the man was brutal and killed many people

what were the choices here?

obviously, the next person may be just as bad or worse

ps, ''dozens of iranian missiles rained down on US bases''

any actual deaths?

Cool

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:40 am

They missed. I think at this point Trump mocks them and threatens them a little. Much of the media will be depressed because they cant use fear to keep the folks interested, and our proxy war with them will continue while most people go on about their lives completely unaware.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:10 am

phil wrote:Also where is the mass demonstrations around the world for taking out a mass murderer?

Even Russia and China have been very quite

Quite possibly, it's a sign that no one agrees with you, didge.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:18 am

Maddog wrote:They missed. I think at this point Trump mocks them and threatens them a little.  Much of the media will be depressed  because they cant use fear to keep the folks interested, and our proxy war with them will continue while most people go on about their lives completely unaware.  

The Iranians missed intentionally, directing the explosives to a remote sites on the bases. Moreover, they called over a warning some 5-hours in advance. They are not the killers that Trump is. The Iranians have humanitarian instincts.

Isn't it ironic that with Trump, the Iranians are the adult in the room? I have to laugh. Looking at the Ayatollah and Trump during this crisis, it is the Ayatollah that looks calm and composed.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:35 am

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Apparently UK troops have been put on stand by.

It is disgusting what that overinflated orange twat is dragging you guys into. But wtf has his stupid reactionary conflict got to do with us?

If Boris goes along with his fellow sack of lard, I hope parliament kills it like they did Cameron's attempts to send us to Syria.


les, it's ridiculous that you will use this to just insult trump

look at the facts

the media won't show you the hundreds of thousands of iranians partying and thanking trump for his actions, but the videos are still there showing it.

it has emboldened more iranian women to break free and remove their hijabs.

the man was brutal and killed many people

what were the choices here?

obviously, the next person may be just as bad or worse

ps, ''dozens of iranian missiles rained down on US bases''

any actual deaths?

Cool

I'm not at all a fan of the regime in Tehran, gels. They are a backward, brutal cultish autocracy. Among the worst governments in the world. I have Iranian friends amd students who hate the regime and stay out of Iran for that very reason.

It doesn't change the facts though:

- it isn't for the west to impose regime change.
- bombing/assassination of foreign politicians in a foreign country is completely unacceptable - imagine a North Korean official was drone attacked and killed outside JFK airport by South Korea. Would US be cool with that?
- there is clearly no end game, if this leads to war it will be a bigger quagmire than Iraq.
- it has NOTHING to do with the UK.

I'll insult Trump whenever I get the chance, because of the vindictive, dangerous idiot he is. But my main point in my above post is that the UK MUST NOT send out troops to die over this BS.

Sadly all signs indicate BoJo would do just that...

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:55 am

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:


les, it's ridiculous that you will use this to just insult trump

look at the facts

the media won't show you the hundreds of thousands of iranians partying and thanking trump for his actions, but the videos are still there showing it.

it has emboldened more iranian women to break free and remove their hijabs.

the man was brutal and killed many people

what were the choices here?

obviously, the next person may be just as bad or worse

ps, ''dozens of iranian missiles rained down on US bases''

any actual deaths?

Cool

I'm not at all a fan of the regime in Tehran, gels. They are a backward, brutal cultish autocracy. Among the worst governments in the world. I have Iranian friends amd students who hate the regime and stay out of Iran for that very reason.

It doesn't change the facts though:

- it isn't for the west to impose regime change.
- bombing/assassination of foreign politicians in a foreign country is completely unacceptable - imagine a North Korean official was drone attacked and killed outside JFK airport by South Korea. Would US be cool with that?
- there is clearly no end game, if this leads to war it will be a bigger quagmire than Iraq.
- it has NOTHING to do with the UK.

I'll insult Trump whenever I get the chance, because of the vindictive, dangerous idiot he is. But my main point in my above post is that the UK MUST NOT send out troops to die over this BS.

Sadly all signs indicate BoJo would do just that...


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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:00 am

What Eilzel fails to grasp is that Suleimani was a terrorist that orchestrated the deaths of countless British soldiers, Americans, Iraqi's, Iranians, Yeminis etc. Thus he would have continued to target them without fear of repercussions. Hence all this bullshit about being led into a war, when again we have the capability to sit back and literally take out Irans capability fro,m a far. Shows how some here are so easily led

You do not pussy foot around with such people who thought they were untouchable and I do not see anyone claiming when we took out Bin laden or al-Baghdadi. To being wrong

All these people were enemies of the west and of millions of Muslims as well.
Take claim stability to the region when all of these people brought about instability in many countries, shows what a bunch of apologists the left have become

The fact is just before this he orchestrated an attack on the US Embassy. Are we supposed to bend  over and continually take it up the arse or actually act and now make every Iranian leader be in fear for their lives.

Fortune favours the bold, not pussies

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:33 am

Thorin wrote:What Eilzel fails to grasp is that Suleimani was a terrorist that orchestrated the deaths of countless British soldiers, Americans, Iraqi's, Iranians, Yeminis etc. Thus he would have continued to target them without fear of repercussions. Hence all this bullshit about being led into a war, when again we have the capability to sit back and literally take out Irans capability fro,m a far. Shows how some here are so easily led

You do not pussy foot around with such people who thought they were untouchable and I do not see anyone claiming when we took out Bin laden or al-Baghdadi. To being wrong

All these people were enemies of the west and of millions of Muslims as well.
Take claim stability to the region when all of these people brought about instability in many countries, shows what a bunch of apologists the left have become

The fact is just before this he orchestrated an attack on the US Embassy. Are we supposed to bend  over and continually take it up the arse or actually act and now make every Iranian leader be in fear for their lives.

Fortune favours the bold, not pussies

Say what you might, an act of war begets a war. Soleimini was a state actor, unlike Usama bin Laden or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. He was an agent of the state of Iran.

If you start picking off state actors, you invite a war between nations, not just a proxy like ISIS.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 am

Here is another major point the left seem to fail to grasp.

From the moment the mad mullahs overtook Iran. They have been shouting continually about destroying Israel. They have been behind the terrorist within Gaza and the west bank and behind the Lebanese war

Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria and Lebannon. When they have set up camps or moving arms. This is because Israel is not afraid to act against Iran and as seen Iran often blows up hot air in return. Not once has this led to war between Israel and Iran, because iran knows it would lose and lose badly. Which would open up the doors to the moderates. Which is what the Theocracy fears most of all.

Israel has before taken out nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq. To daring raids, which stopped two madmen getting their hands on nuke weapons and again what happened to Israel?

Nothing

For once the US has taken a leaf out of the Israel book in how to take the fight to the terrorists. You take out terrorists and facilities, from afar and watch them blow hot air afterwards.

This is what people fail to grasp and just look at the response by Iran. It was a show more for the Iranian people to say they had retaliated/ Lying claiming 80 Americans dead. When the world knows, it was more like a fireworks display.

If people will continue to bow down to terrorists, then you will continue to see terrorism in our countries. As these terrorists have been doing for years, because the west has been too weak in their responses. That is the path the left continually take If you instead hit them where it hurts the most. They start to think twice. Iranian leaders care more about remaining in power. As they sit precariously on the brink of being toppled

Laters

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:00 am

Thorin wrote:Here is another major point the left seem to fail to grasp.

From the moment the mad mullahs overtook Iran. They have been shouting continually about destroying Israel. They have been behind the terrorist within Gaza and the west bank and behind the Lebanese war

Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria and Lebannon. When they have set up camps or moving arms. This is because Israel is not afraid to act against Iran and as seen Iran often blows up hot air in return. Not once has this led to war between Israel and Iran, because iran knows it would lose and lose badly. Which would open up the doors to the moderates. Which is what the Theocracy fears most of all.

Israel has before taken out nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq. To daring raids, which stopped two madmen getting their hands on nuke weapons and again what happened to Israel?

Nothing

For once the US has taken a leaf out of the Israel book in how to take the fight to the terrorists. You take out terrorists and facilities, from afar and watch them blow hot air afterwards.

This is what people fail to grasp and just look at the response by Iran. It was a show more for the Iranian people to say they had retaliated/ Lying claiming 80 Americans dead. When the world knows, it was more like a fireworks display.

If people will continue to bow down to terrorists, then you will continue to see terrorism in our countries. If you instead hit them where it hurts the most. They start to think twice. Iranian leaders care more about remaining in power. As that sit precariously on the brink of being toppled

Laters

Apparently, Israel is content to start wars.  As I say, an act of war begets war.  Israel has taken rocket barrages on its homeland, and apparently it is willing to pay that price.

The US has a life apart from the ME.  So far from a mere lack of enthusiasm, there are active movements opposing any military presence in the region.  The US has no actual interest in the ME.  Americans are tired of underwriting such adventures with our dollars, and the lives of our children.

Killing Soleimini was an act of war against a well-defined nation state.  Given the values of Americans today, it was an ill-conceived and reckless step too far.  What Warhawks and Neo-Cons don't realize is that if you defeat Iran, you only manage to bring down 1.6 billion Muslims onto you.  Conventional wars, like WWII, are a thing of the past.  A nation state war can quickly meld into a creed war, given the religious layers surrounding a state like Iran.


Last edited by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:06 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Here is another major point the left seem to fail to grasp.

From the moment the mad mullahs overtook Iran. They have been shouting continually about destroying Israel. They have been behind the terrorist within Gaza and the west bank and behind the Lebanese war

Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria and Lebannon. When they have set up camps or moving arms. This is because Israel is not afraid to act against Iran and as seen Iran often blows up hot air in return. Not once has this led to war between Israel and Iran, because iran knows it would lose and lose badly. Which would open up the doors to the moderates. Which is what the Theocracy fears most of all.

Israel has before taken out nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq. To daring raids, which stopped two madmen getting their hands on nuke weapons and again what happened to Israel?

Nothing

For once the US has taken a leaf out of the Israel book in how to take the fight to the terrorists. You take out terrorists and facilities, from afar and watch them blow hot air afterwards.

This is what people fail to grasp and just look at the response by Iran. It was a show more for the Iranian people to say they had retaliated/ Lying claiming 80 Americans dead. When the world knows, it was more like a fireworks display.

If people will continue to bow down to terrorists, then you will continue to see terrorism in our countries. If you instead hit them where it hurts the most. They start to think twice. Iranian leaders care more about remaining in power. As that sit precariously on the brink of being toppled

Laters

Apparently Israel is content to start wars.  As I say, an act of war begets war.  Israel has taken rocket barrages on it's homeland, and apparently it is willing to pay that price.



More revisionist history by Quill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel

Yes Israel has a great defense system, which minimises the deaths of its civillians, but none have come directly from iran

Like i said, and especially the last two years. Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria

has there been a war from this with Iran?

No

As to the rest of your points, just yet more pussy talk failing to understand how to be bold against such extremists. Just as israel does

Anyway, you are too much of aan appeaser, so any crap you write, will just be more of the same gibberish


Either take on my points or expect to be ignored

It was not an act of war, as he was a terrorist

There has been no declaration of war either

Stop being an utter pussy and idiot

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:09 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:What Eilzel fails to grasp is that Suleimani was a terrorist that orchestrated the deaths of countless British soldiers, Americans, Iraqi's, Iranians, Yeminis etc. Thus he would have continued to target them without fear of repercussions. Hence all this bullshit about being led into a war, when again we have the capability to sit back and literally take out Irans capability fro,m a far. Shows how some here are so easily led

You do not pussy foot around with such people who thought they were untouchable and I do not see anyone claiming when we took out Bin laden or al-Baghdadi. To being wrong

All these people were enemies of the west and of millions of Muslims as well.
Take claim stability to the region when all of these people brought about instability in many countries, shows what a bunch of apologists the left have become

The fact is just before this he orchestrated an attack on the US Embassy. Are we supposed to bend  over and continually take it up the arse or actually act and now make every Iranian leader be in fear for their lives.

Fortune favours the bold, not pussies

Say what you might, an act of war begets a war.  Soleimini was a state actor, unlike Usama bin Laden or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.  He was an agent of the state of Iran.

If you start picking off state actors, you invite a war between nations, not just a proxy like ISIS.


Yet more pussy talk

Even warren agrees he was a terrorist

We take out terrorists, no matter if they hide behind a status as an official of a state

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:10 am

phil wrote:Yes Israel has a great defense system, which minimises the deaths of its civillians, but none have come directly from iran

Like i said, and especially the last two years. Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria

You don't get it. America wants no part of that fight. It doesn't want to spend the money. It doesn't want to waste the lives.

There is simply no reason. America has no interest in the ME.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:12 am

phil wrote:Like i said, and especially the last two years. Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria

has there been a war from this with Iran?

No

I think there has been a war. What are those missiles that come down on Israel here and there.

America wants no part in it. No interest in the ME.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:14 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Like i said, and especially the last two years. Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria

has there been a war from this with Iran?

No

I think there has been a war.  What are those missiles that come down on Israel here and there.

America wants no part in it.  No interest in the ME.

Do you? is that why there is no such war?

America now wants to stop listening to pussies like you and actually act against terrorists who are a threat

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:15 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Yes Israel has a great defense system, which minimises the deaths of its civillians, but none have come directly from iran

Like i said, and especially the last two years. Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria

You don't get it.  America wants no part of that fight.  It doesn't want to spend the money.  It doesn't want to waste the lives.

There is simply no reason.  America has no interest in the ME.


The Us has stopped listening to pussies like you and is acting

You are not going to lose lives using drones

I think the US should pull out of Iraq as well and just hit from afar

No lives at stake then

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:17 am

phil wrote:As to the rest of your points, just yet more pussy talk failing to understand how to be bold against such extremists. Just as israel does

Anyway, you are too much of aan appeaser, so any crap you write, will just be more of the same gibberish

Who cares? America has no interest in the ME. "Be bold?" Fook, better to mind you own business.

Appeasement? Or disinterest? America has no stake in the ME.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:20 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Here is another major point the left seem to fail to grasp.

From the moment the mad mullahs overtook Iran. They have been shouting continually about destroying Israel. They have been behind the terrorist within Gaza and the west bank and behind the Lebanese war

Israel has continually taken out Iranian targets in Syria and Lebannon. When they have set up camps or moving arms. This is because Israel is not afraid to act against Iran and as seen Iran often blows up hot air in return. Not once has this led to war between Israel and Iran, because iran knows it would lose and lose badly. Which would open up the doors to the moderates. Which is what the Theocracy fears most of all.

Israel has before taken out nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq. To daring raids, which stopped two madmen getting their hands on nuke weapons and again what happened to Israel?

Nothing

For once the US has taken a leaf out of the Israel book in how to take the fight to the terrorists. You take out terrorists and facilities, from afar and watch them blow hot air afterwards.

This is what people fail to grasp and just look at the response by Iran. It was a show more for the Iranian people to say they had retaliated/ Lying claiming 80 Americans dead. When the world knows, it was more like a fireworks display.

If people will continue to bow down to terrorists, then you will continue to see terrorism in our countries. If you instead hit them where it hurts the most. They start to think twice. Iranian leaders care more about remaining in power. As that sit precariously on the brink of being toppled

Laters

Apparently Israel is content to start wars.  As I say, an act of war begets war.  Israel has taken rocket barrages on it's homeland, and apparently it is willing to pay that price.

The US has a life apart from the ME.  So far from a mere lack of enthusiasm, there are active movements opposing any military presence in the region.  The US has no actual interest in the ME.  Americans are tired of underwriting such adventures with out dollars, and the lives of our children.

Killing Soleimini was an act of war against a well-defined nation state.  Given the values of Americans today, it was an ill-conceived and reckless step too far.  What warhawks and Neo Cons don't realize is that if you defeat Iran, you only manage to bring down 1.6 billion Muslims onto you.  Conventional wars, like WWII, are a thing of the past.  A nation state war can quickly meld into a creed war, given the religious layers surrounding a state like Iran.

I believe that Trump has made a cardinal error, too, even though I have no sympathy for the Iraqi leaders who were killed in the drone strike; they had innocent blood on their hands because of their support for and mentoring of proxy terrorist murderers, and perhaps even those behind our own terrorist events and your own 9/11.

But the autocratic theocracy that governs Iran was having increasingly severe domestic problems of its own and there was growing movement of opposition to its repressive and expansionist domestic and foreign policies and desperation to expand it's toxic influence over neighbouring states.

Given time - and perhaps not too much time - Supreme Leader Hassan Rouhani's regime might well have fallen leading to the emergence of a more moderate government.
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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:20 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:As to the rest of your points, just yet more pussy talk failing to understand how to be bold against such extremists. Just as israel does

Anyway, you are too much of aan appeaser, so any crap you write, will just be more of the same gibberish

Who cares?  America has no interest in the ME.  "Be bold?"  Fook, better to mind you own business.

Appeasement?  Or disinterest?  America has no stake in the ME.


In your case a quisling and an appeaser

Seems nobody is listening to you Quill

Yes you would rather more of the same. Countless people being butchered by these terrorists

For starters there was a rocket attack by Iranian-backed militias on an Iraqi base in Kirkuk on Dec. 27 that killed an American contractor.

The US showed restraint

Then there was the assault on the American embassy in Baghdad, by Iranian back militias

The US said enough and rightly so

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:21 am

phil wrote:Even warren agrees he was a terrorist

No doubt. But it is beside the point. Warren isn't saying we must 'willy-nilly rush into a war that holds no interest for the US'.

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:24 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Even warren agrees he was a terrorist

No doubt.  But it is beside the point.  Warren isn't saying we must 'willy-nilly rush into a war that holds no interest for the US'.

Thankfully Warren is not President but Trump is

Again pussy, there is not going to be a war from this

The only way that would happen. If the iranians were stupid enough to take out a high ranking Allied official

Look at the iranian response. It was all about propaganda to appease their hardliners in iran

The rest of the world saw there response for what it was

A bluff

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:26 am

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:


les, it's ridiculous that you will use this to just insult trump

look at the facts

the media won't show you the hundreds of thousands of iranians partying and thanking trump for his actions, but the videos are still there showing it.

it has emboldened more iranian women to break free and remove their hijabs.

the man was brutal and killed many people

what were the choices here?

obviously, the next person may be just as bad or worse

ps, ''dozens of iranian missiles rained down on US bases''

any actual deaths?

Cool

I'm not at all a fan of the regime in Tehran, gels. They are a backward, brutal cultish autocracy. Among the worst governments in the world. I have Iranian friends amd students who hate the regime and stay out of Iran for that very reason.

It doesn't change the facts though:

- it isn't for the west to impose regime change.
- bombing/assassination of foreign politicians in a foreign country is completely unacceptable - imagine a North Korean official was drone attacked and killed outside JFK airport by South Korea. Would US be cool with that?
- there is clearly no end game, if this leads to war it will be a bigger quagmire than Iraq.
- it has NOTHING to do with the UK.

I'll insult Trump whenever I get the chance, because of the vindictive, dangerous idiot he is. But my main point in my above post is that the UK MUST NOT send out troops to die over this BS.

Sadly all signs indicate BoJo would do just that...

Lez, given his past record, a Prime Minister Comrade Jeremy Corbyn would most likely have mourned the death of one of his "friends" and attended the highly-orchestrated funeral in order to lay a memorial wreath on his grave.
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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:28 am

Its also possible that the Boeing passenger plane was taken down by Iranian terrorists as well. That is going to look even more worse for Iran, taking out civilians, after saying they would target allied troops.

If this turns out to be true, it will anger many countries like Ukraine now as well and the screws tighten further with sanctions against Iran

There is not going to be a war here.

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:30 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I'm not at all a fan of the regime in Tehran, gels. They are a backward, brutal cultish autocracy. Among the worst governments in the world. I have Iranian friends amd students who hate the regime and stay out of Iran for that very reason.

It doesn't change the facts though:

- it isn't for the west to impose regime change.
- bombing/assassination of foreign politicians in a foreign country is completely unacceptable - imagine a North Korean official was drone attacked and killed outside JFK airport by South Korea. Would US be cool with that?
- there is clearly no end game, if this leads to war it will be a bigger quagmire than Iraq.
- it has NOTHING to do with the UK.

I'll insult Trump whenever I get the chance, because of the vindictive, dangerous idiot he is. But my main point in my above post is that the UK MUST NOT send out troops to die over this BS.

Sadly all signs indicate BoJo would do just that...

Lez, given his past record, a Prime Minister Comrade Jeremy Corbyn would most likely have mourned the death of one of his "friends" and attended the highly-orchestrated funeral in order to lay a memorial wreath on his grave.

+1

Yet again Corbyn was asked to condemn and answer whether he thought he was a terrorist and what did Corbyn do

Weasel out of this

Night Fred

And on that note, I wish everyone a wonderful evening

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:51 am

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article239053173.html

Was this contractor a more legitimate target than the man who had him killed?

On an ironic side note, he was a naturalized American from Iraq.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:54 am

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article239053173.html

Was this contractor a more legitimate target than the man who had him killed?

On an ironic side note, he was a naturalized American from Iraq.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:51 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Apparently Israel is content to start wars.  As I say, an act of war begets war.  Israel has taken rocket barrages on it's homeland, and apparently it is willing to pay that price.

The US has a life apart from the ME.  So far from a mere lack of enthusiasm, there are active movements opposing any military presence in the region.  The US has no actual interest in the ME.  Americans are tired of underwriting such adventures with out dollars, and the lives of our children.

Killing Soleimini was an act of war against a well-defined nation state.  Given the values of Americans today, it was an ill-conceived and reckless step too far.  What warhawks and Neo Cons don't realize is that if you defeat Iran, you only manage to bring down 1.6 billion Muslims onto you.  Conventional wars, like WWII, are a thing of the past.  A nation state war can quickly meld into a creed war, given the religious layers surrounding a state like Iran.

I believe that Trump has made a cardinal error, too, even though I have no sympathy for the Iraqi leaders who were killed in the drone strike; they had innocent blood on their hands because of their support for and mentoring of proxy terrorist murderers, and perhaps even those behind our own terrorist events and your own 9/11.

But the autocratic theocracy that governs Iran was having increasingly severe domestic problems of its own and there was growing movement of opposition to its repressive and expansionist domestic and foreign policies and desperation to expand it's toxic influence over neighbouring states.

Given time - and perhaps not too much time  - Supreme Leader Hassan Rouhani's regime might well have fallen leading to the emergence of a more moderate government.

To argue that Soleimini was a bad man is like beating a dead horse.  No one disagrees.

As far as Rouhani goes, Trump has just handed him new life in delivering up a martyr.  Iran had domestic problems.  Now, it’s all cheering and clapping for the glorious leaders.

But Trump wasn't doing that, neither was he going after Soleimini for revenge, nor for martyrdom.  He was creating a diversion...what is known as the tail wagging the dog.  Don't forget, Trump has just been impeached.  It is the greatest insult that can be given to a president.  Now, he wants to say 'look over there, not over here.' Let me distract you.  The problem is, you don't combat a danger by calling down a greater danger, and that's what Trump has done.

Of course, nothing is greater in Trump's mind, than Trump.  He cares little for the US, NATO, for you (GB), Germany, France, nor anyone at all.  But for those who care for the US, it is great blunder.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:00 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article239053173.html

Was this contractor a more legitimate target than the man who had him killed?

There were certainly less problems. He was not a state actor.

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:43 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:


les, it's ridiculous that you will use this to just insult trump

look at the facts

the media won't show you the hundreds of thousands of iranians partying and thanking trump for his actions, but the videos are still there showing it.

it has emboldened more iranian women to break free and remove their hijabs.

the man was brutal and killed many people

what were the choices here?

obviously, the next person may be just as bad or worse

ps, ''dozens of iranian missiles rained down on US bases''

any actual deaths?

Cool

I'm not at all a fan of the regime in Tehran, gels. They are a backward, brutal cultish autocracy. Among the worst governments in the world. I have Iranian friends amd students who hate the regime and stay out of Iran for that very reason.

It doesn't change the facts though:

- it isn't for the west to impose regime change.
- bombing/assassination of foreign politicians in a foreign country is completely unacceptable - imagine a North Korean official was drone attacked and killed outside JFK airport by South Korea. Would US be cool with that?
- there is clearly no end game, if this leads to war it will be a bigger quagmire than Iraq.
- it has NOTHING to do with the UK.

I'll insult Trump whenever I get the chance, because of the vindictive, dangerous idiot he is. But my main point in my above post is that the UK MUST NOT send out troops to die over this BS.

Sadly all signs indicate BoJo would do just that...

Lez, given his past record, a Prime Minister Comrade Jeremy Corbyn would most likely have mourned the death of one of his "friends" and attended the highly-orchestrated funeral in order to lay a memorial wreath on his grave.

I don't care what Corbyn 'would likely' have done. He's finished in April and Labour can move forward.

Our ACTUAL PM would almost certainly drag us into a possible conflict and lead to deaths of UK troops if it came to that. That's far worse than anything Corbyn would've said or done in this situation.

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:08 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Lez, given his past record, a Prime Minister Comrade Jeremy Corbyn would most likely have mourned the death of one of his "friends" and attended the highly-orchestrated funeral in order to lay a memorial wreath on his grave.

I don't care what Corbyn 'would likely' have done. He's finished in April and Labour can move forward.

Our ACTUAL PM would almost certainly drag us into a possible conflict and lead to deaths of UK troops if it came to that. That's far worse than anything Corbyn would've said or done in this situation.

Uk troops have already being dying at the hand of this dead terrorist

Doh

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:11 pm

‘Death to America! The great Satan!’ Predictable chants on the streets of Tehran following President Trump’s strike against Iranian General Qassim Soleimani. Comments by many political leaders in Britain suggest their own feelings may not be much different. Jeremy Corbyn’s reaction, in any case now politically irrelevant, was so predictable it can be passed over. The candidates to replace him also lined up to condemn Trump’s action, led by Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry who spoke of ‘Trump’s reckless lurch towards war’. Clive Lewis condemned ‘this cowboy action’.

Is it strategic naïveté that leads these people to side with Tehran over Washington? Ill-judged comments like this can only embolden Ayatollah Khamenei in his plans to retaliate against America. Desperate to split the EU further from the US, he knows the value of such backing, demanding that European leaders condemn President Trump.

These Labour politicians are far from alone, with academics and so-called experts in international law wheeled out in the media to accuse the US of acting illegally and even committing war crimes, despite ignorance of the intelligence that led to the attack order. At one point I expected the BBC to play martial music in the days immediately after Soleimani’s death, so sombre was their coverage of his funeral. Their correspondent in Beirut on Monday came across more like a spokesman for Tehran. Next maybe we should expect to see Soleimani transformed into an anti-imperialist icon, with Left-wing politicians donning t-shirts bearing his image Che Guevara-style.

All of this demonstrates breath-taking moral bankruptcy. Repudiating action to contain long-term lethal Iranian violence against US forces and diplomats ignores the depravity of a regime that kills gays, oppresses women, tortures prisoners and murders demonstrators. Ordinary Iranians know their own theocratic government is the Great Satan, not the US. Many have been privately celebrating Soleimani’s end, in contrast to the throngs of ‘mourners’ eagerly broadcast on Western TV, mostly there at the point of a gun. Hearing about President Trump’s threat to attack 52 targets, a lot have been hoping he will do it sooner rather than later.

They know the cause of much of the economic misery they have been protesting in recent months was Soleimani himself. Eulogised by commentators in the West, his unique influence over the Supreme Leader has led the country into disastrous imperial adventures across the region which have killed tens of thousands of innocent people, including Iranians. Leaked Iranian intelligence reports even reveal their own hardened officers were concerned over the brutal tactics Soleimani favoured, which have seen industrial-scale persecution and slaughter in Iraq and Syria.

Analysts praising Soleimani’s fight against Isil ignore the pressure he piled on the Iraqi prime minister, forcing him to marginalise the Sunni population when the Americans left in 2011. Sunnis were kicked out of the government, army and police, and arrested in their thousands, helping precipitate the rise of Isil in the first place.

Fortunately our prime minister and foreign secretary have not fallen into the trap of taking Tehran’s side. They recognise that Iran is as great a threat to the UK, sometimes branded by Tehran as the ‘little Satan’.

Soleimani’s Quds Force directed the killing of dozens of British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, alongside over 1,000 Americans. In 2015 Soleimani’s proxies set up a bomb factory with three tons of explosive materials in north London. Elsewhere in Europe, a Quds Force organised bombing attack in France was prevented in 2018 and two Dutch citizens were assassinated in Holland in 2015 and 2017.

Khamenei has said he will no longer adhere to the nuclear deal with the P5+1. Despite European leaders’ determination to cling to President Obama’s agreement, they know Tehran has been duping them since it was first put in place. In any case this flawed deal would have allowed Iran to legitimately develop material for nuclear weapons in a few years, threatening the whole world.

Rather than unintentionally encouraging Khamenei’s plans for violent retribution, European political leaders should be working towards the downfall of his vicious dictatorship or at least coercing him towards moderation. Already under severe threat from within, the regime has been seriously weakened by the killing of Soleimani which exposed to their own people Iranian vulnerability in the face of superior American power. EU governments should condemn Iran and its violent actions everywhere and support President Trump in re-imposing sanctions. No matter how bitter a pill for them, it is the right course for the decent people of Iran and the safety of others across the Middle East.

According to Sir Keir Starmer, current favourite to replace Corbyn: ‘We need to engage, not isolate Iran.’ He is precisely wrong, presumably unaware that decades of engagement and appeasement have led only to greater violence, never one inch closer to peace. The Government should ignore him and prepare to back America with diplomatic and military action if this situation escalates, making it clear to Tehran that they will do so.


https://richard-kemp.com/barbarous-iran-is-the-real-great-satan-but-the-morally-bankrupt-left-is-incapable-of-admitting-it/

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Post by Thorin on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:26 pm

The Anti-Imperialism of the Left Doesn’t Care About Victims, It Just Hates The West

http://hurryupharry.org/2020/01/05/the-anti-imperialism-of-the-left-doesnt-care-about-victims-it-just-hates-the-west/


Brilliant article and well worth the read

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:37 am

The question "What are the US doing in Iraq?" is never accompanied by "What is Iran doing in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen?".

Who cares? The total straight line flight distance from United States to Iran is 7,243 miles. Iran is not even in the neighborhood.

It's just another Neo-Con attempt to convert the world, which will lead to perpetual war.

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Post by Thorin on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:41 am

Of course Quill does not care, because he avoids the fact of Iranian imperialism

Hence the double standard and clearly morally bankrupt

I rest my case

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Post by Thorin on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:44 am

I mean thank goodness the US and allies were in West germany during the cold war.

Thank goodness they are still in South Korea, which has clearly worked as a deterrent against the North

Helping protect countries does not warrant what distance your allies are in relation to you.

I rest my case again


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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:53 am

Thorin wrote:Of course Quill does not care, because he avoids the fact of Iranian imperialism

Hence the double standard and clearly morally bankrupt

I rest my case

I also ignore Burmese imperialism. Hardly a threat. Iran sends missiles against US bases in Iraq...here we go again. 2190311264

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Post by Maddog on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:03 am

Spy satellite imagery suggests that a Ukraine-bound Boeing passenger airliner that crashed shortly after takeoff in Iran on earlier was shot down by an Iranian missile, NBC News reported Thursday.

Other reports also said it seemed like the airliner was shot down on Wednesday local time by a missile fired by mistake by Iranian forces, who shortly before the crash had launched missile attacks on bases in Iraq that house U.S. and coalition forces.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/09/trump-says-he-has-doesnt-believe-the-boeing-plane-crash-in-iran-was-due-to-mechanical-error.html

It appears the Iranians hit something with their missiles.

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Iran sends missiles against US bases in Iraq...here we go again. Empty Re: Iran sends missiles against US bases in Iraq...here we go again.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:15 pm

The Iranians deny it. Who are you gonna believe, Trump? The Washington Post reports that in 1,055 days, impeached President Trump has made 15,413 false or misleading claims.

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Post by nicko on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:49 pm

I watched the Video of the plane being hit by a Missile , there is no doubt , it was hit by a Ground to Air Missile ,It exploded in mid-air!
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Post by Maddog on Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:01 am

nicko wrote:I watched the Video of the plane being hit by a Missile , there is no doubt , it was hit by a Ground to Air Missile ,It exploded in mid-air!

Justin Trudeau agrees with you.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:04 am

nicko wrote:I watched the Video of the plane being hit by a Missile , there is no doubt , it was hit by a Ground to Air Missile ,It exploded in mid-air!

You are no expert in interpreting remote sensing data, nick.  That was probably a high-flying weather balloon imploding.  Either than, or it was Venus, which is closer in its orbit this time of the year. Has anyone bothered to check with NASA?

Watching it on a video clip can be deceiving; you have to have been there.  Wink


Last edited by Original Quill on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by nicko on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:36 am

I'v had a lot experience in explosives ,that plane was hit by a Missile ,Isaw the explosion as the missile hit! This has now been ratified by several experts !
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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:49 am

nicko wrote:I'v had a lot experience in explosives ,that plane was hit by a Missile ,Isaw the explosion as the missile hit!  This has now been ratified by several experts !

Explosives aren't the issue, nick.  It's a question of interpretation.  You are trying to interpret phenomenon, far off, at night, high in the sky, with atmospheric anomalies all around, with only indirect sensory equipment (cameras).  There is a science that has built up around this effort, and it is called remote sensing.

One of my best friends while I was teaching at Arizona was a professor of remote sensing geography.  Ultimately, he was hired by the CIA and placed at Stanford University, to interpret satellite photographs.  That guy could run rings around your 'I know explosives' defense.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:34 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html

Now Iran admits it. Looks like Walter Mitty was wrong again.

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